It's interesting reading the above posts. I do beleive COV is slightly to blame for this shift. Many new people have come to play initially only on COV, I know playing there myself a bit you get talking to people and you ask them who they play on COH, many don't and came straight to COV. Playing first as a hero you get into a certain mindset of duty and honour and friendship, and this is what made the community on COH second to none.
Now though you have COV where my experience so far teaming wise hasn't been great, the mindset of the game itself is, gain power, tread on your fellow villain etc.
Those coming from COH you can spot a mile away, those new to either games you can spot to.
This isn't a standard response, plenty of decent people have come from the COV crowd to, but I do think a larger percentage of ruder players, coming into COV and now moving into COH has come about.
That and the advent of PvP big time, where killing you fellow players is an accepted thing. Pre PvP we all got along, now some take it far too seriously, convinced killing every 'real' player out there is the point of the game, like 'I Pwn you' or whatever it's called, and it affects their demeanour.
This probably all sounds like a lot of psychological rubbish, but just sharing my thoughts. 
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I should probably cl;ear up one quote that is beiong misunderstood and missused. Now thats not anyones fault. Its me I left a word out being the [censored] I am. When I say I have pointeout cliques on these forums I mean. I have posted on the forums about INGAME cliques. Thats my error entirely.
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Ooooh ok!! sorries there but you know being Greek and all doesnt gimme the best comprehension at times 
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English is my first language and I made the same mistake about what he meant
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It's interesting reading the above posts. I do beleive COV is slightly to blame for this shift. Many new people have come to play initially only on COV, I know playing there myself a bit you get talking to people and you ask them who they play on COH, many don't and came straight to COV. Playing first as a hero you get into a certain mindset of duty and honour and friendship, and this is what made the community on COH second to none.
Now though you have COV where my experience so far teaming wise hasn't been great, the mindset of the game itself is, gain power, tread on your fellow villain etc.
Those coming from COH you can spot a mile away, those new to either games you can spot to.
This isn't a standard response, plenty of decent people have come from the COV crowd to, but I do think a larger percentage of ruder players, coming into COV and now moving into COH has come about.
That and the advent of PvP big time, where killing you fellow players is an accepted thing. Pre PvP we all got along, now some take it far too seriously, convinced killing every 'real' player out there is the point of the game, like 'I Pwn you' or whatever it's called, and it affects their demeanour.
This probably all sounds like a lot of psychological rubbish, but just sharing my thoughts.
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Think you make some very good points there Aerie. Kind of sums up what ive been thinking
The general attitude of some of the ppl, stinks. On numerous times, i have joined teams as a pickup only to be appauled by the language of fellow players..
Things have got so bad that i will Solo if none of my SG buddies are on, as i dont need the hassle of being in a team of kids, where every second word either starts with a "F" or a "S".
I want to be able to PVP and use Arena chat but quite simply, the immature players that consistantly Spam both broadcast and the Arena chat has now made me rethink.
I have 1 issue on the server with one person, who will remain unnamed. but the player got a invite into our team we had going, we started a mission in Striga. We had a 3 person team, of 2 blokes and a woman (real life) when one of my team mates dropped Ice patch, this pickup player came out with obsenities about what it looked like..
He was promptly kicked for his behaviour, after being pestured about why we kicked him, we put the player on ignore.
Personally i dont blame the introduction of COV or PVP but, something needs to be done, to restore the quality of the community
Like others, Ive had to think carefully about what to post up here.
I think a lot of long-term players are happily in their comfort zones. Weve been playing a long time so we know who like to team with, we use global chat channels for banter rather than any of the in-game channels and have our own in-jokes and terminology. This leads to what seems a more cliquey environment as before people were nattering on open channels, a lot are now talking on invite only chat.
To be honest, Ive had Arena turned off for nearly six months now; and Im tempted to turn off broadcast as well. Id like to think this Penny Arcade cartoon - http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 - is applicable for the game we play as well (possible NSFW, swearing).
This isnt a Defiant only problem either as a little SG event, we made a themed SG on Union called the Reservoir Dolls (I expect you can imagine the theme). There was about eighteen of us the first night we ran it, and quite frankly the abuse we got was shocking (most people were complimentary though).
Im not sure the core community of the server has gone downhill, but retreated to their own houses, so to speak. I still love the big community events (Hami, the Valentines event, etc) and think theyre a fun time.
This to me isn't a new phenomenon. I think you have already pointed out the reason why its affecting you now, friends you had in game have left and you have ended up on the outside looking in.
The few sg's I have been in have all had cliques form within them. In my first sg I was one of 8 players who teamed night after night even though there were so many more people in the sg. It takes only a matter of days with any sg I have joined to spot who teams with who, and who doesn't.
They don't want to invite someone outside their clique to team as a friend is offline and could come on at any moment and theres only one space left on the team. Tbh I believe that if you aren't in an sg from early on you will always be on the fringe. That's probably why no two characters I have belong to the same sg.
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As with Generalissimo_2 I spend most of my time now solo or more often than not teaming only with my SG friends.
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That could be one of the cliques Lode mentioned ! 
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I very much doubt that PHEP figures very large on anyone's list of cliques (or even anyone's list of supergroups) on Defiant
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I just find it funny that part of his complaint was about cliques and a few responces are 'you should just group with a small number of friends, that is what I do!'.
If I agree with Harv, does that mean I'm being cliquey?
I think that there are three aspects to this, all having a knock on (or knockback ) effect:
1. The general spam/abuse on broadcast and Arena. This has always been a small problem, now it appears to be growing.
2. The fact that the longer people play the game, the more "cliquey" they become. Not using clique as a derogatory term, just raising an observation that because people have been teaming with a few other people for a long time, either as SGs or coalitions or just as a group of friends, that becomes their "social circle" and it gets harder for "outside" people to break in to it.
3. The advent of Global Chat. There's just so many ways to communicate now that stuff can get lost. I think I'm a fairly well known player in a well established SG and I have made lots of friends on here. As soon as I log in, I can be using SG chat, coalition chat, Global chat channels, tells, and team chat to talk to people. And that means I'm not playing the game with full concentration. Especially a problem when I'm playing as my Empath, and responding to a tell could mean someone on the team dies. Now, this isn't me saying "no-one talk to me", this is my saying that maybe we are having a conversation, and my team needs attention, well, I'm gonna give it to the team rather than send back a tell.
I'm always conscious that people start chatting to me and I don't always respond, however it's never because I don't want to talk to my friends. If someone's saying "got to go, bye" and I'm in my Enhancements screen, that doesn't mean I haven't said "bye" on purpose. However, it does perhaps compound the "cliquey" image.
Absoloutely good and valid point s to be fair from many of you. I disabled arena months ago on all toons. It also got on my nerves seeing some real suck ups get away with murder and worm their way into decent peoples good graces. I knew then if we accepted that worse was to come.
I find it ironic that in late summer someone sent me a tell saying CoV would be a new start and would bring lots of greatness. I laughed my [censored] off im my chair as I predicted the very thing Im seeing posted al over here. and that was well enough before CoVs release.
Yes some real crotch goblins have got in. But there was assclowns before. Just more of them and they are new. But I have to say I dont think the answer to avoid them is stick to SGs. And in some cases only certain SG members of their own SGs. Is that really what we want? Stick in groups and form tribes? I sure dont.
No more people are teaming with SGs and such because they are being forced into it as a responses to people being tribal. And that worries me greatly. But sums it up. And that is another thing to be wary of.
All said and done I have refered to people that I know for a fact are ignoring me and invite friends I have well before me on an all too regular basis and yet dont say a word to me. Dont answer my tells and cant even be bothered to explain why they cant or wont help me or invite me to team. And if this was just me that was having this problem. Being passed up for teams and not being spoken to. This thread wouldnt be here.
I dont call people who have SG only teams cliques as such though techincally they are. But those arent to what I am refering are blatent us and them groups set up not for cover from fart knockers. Albeit a conveinent excuse.
Im as rational as the next person but I am not going to excuse ignorant behaour. Especially when its all too common. Its tradgic that people will extend a hand of friendship when its not even intended as genuine. These are the real problems Im seeing. And the worst is its from people who been here a while. And its a problem a few have discussed with me in game and some interesting PMs Im getting.
Of course the PMs are actually a mix of differing opinions. But one PM made a valid point which I will answer here. That is that CoX EU is a very good community and playing other MMOs can bring home how lucky we are. Yes true in fact hell with playing them look at their forums. I was filled with dread on Dark and Lights forums. Some very bad characters on there. But the fact is such people are making their way here. And what we have is being broken. and the answer seems to be let it happen and make it worse by fences. And being extra picky. Not that I think that explains alot of what I have been experiancing. I think it would have happened anyway with regard to the arrival of a dampening element of a new crowd.
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The advent of Global Chat. There's just so many ways to communicate now that stuff can get lost. I think I'm a fairly well known player in a well established SG and I have made lots of friends on here. As soon as I log in, I can be using SG chat, coalition chat, Global chat channels, tells, and team chat to talk to people. And that means I'm not playing the game with full concentration. Especially a problem when I'm playing as my Empath, and responding to a tell could mean someone on the team dies. Now, this isn't me saying "no-one talk to me", this is my saying that maybe we are having a conversation, and my team needs attention, well, I'm gonna give it to the team rather than send back a tell.
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this kinda sums it up for me as well about the whole thing.
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All said and done I have refered to people that I know for a fact are ignoring me and invite friends I have well before me on an all too regular basis and yet dont say a word to me. Dont answer my tells and cant even be bothered to explain why they cant or wont help me or invite me to team. And if this was just me that was having this problem. Being passed up for teams and not being spoken to. This thread wouldnt be here.
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I have to point out here that if this is the case its getting personal between you and the people that have this behaviour towards you and in my opinion simply remove from list if you are sure this behaviour is on purpose.
However calling the community events a drag as posted in the hami raid thread and saying that community is derailing because you are facing indeed some hard time with certain people is uncalled for.The majority of the long term core here is trying really hard and all doing their best to keep this place we care about intact and to keep it going despite the cracks we seem to receive occasionally either from imature players or from devs at times. Bridger Jaws and the rest of red names in EU as well as majority of this community care loads for this place and do their best so is a bit uncalled to point out its derailing as a whole due to some people simply being imature towards you if this is the case. Simply ignore and move on plenty of awsome people out there to hang out with.Tbh i havent noticed anything against you on the various global channels i am in in fact some pretty good convos in Evo chat as usual and always fun. So simply ignore and move on.
I like to say always dont let life overtake you by thinking it too much cause if it does you miss a lot of things
I guess I kind of see where Lode is coming from at least in some respects. Whatever the exact reasons, I supspect CoV hasn't exactly helped the situation - I've only been playing it for two weeks myself, but already I have pretty much totally given up on teaming in that game. Took me a lot longer to do so in CoH, although maybe I was less jaded when I stated heroing.
Whatever, I'm a confirmed soloist in both games now. For me teaming is most often a frustrating, even miserable experience. Is that down to me? I don't THINK so, though I'll admit I'm hardly best placed to judge. Is it down to the PUG's I team with. Well, yes, usually I'd say it is. Has it become worse lately? IMO definitely. Is that a reflection of the 'community' at large? Well, I'm not sure but I guess it must be.
I can't remember the last time I added someone to my friends list - virtually everyone on my list is someone I met way back in my Hollows days with my first ever character. They've all long outlevelled me and moved on now, but they still take the time to chat to me, and we team once in a while with me providing the comedy (face down) sidekick relief.
As to comments about people not chatting and stuff, Lode my man, speaking purely for myself I'm not too proud to admit that I'm probably your stereotypical saddo online RPG'er. I have precious little life outside the game and few R/L friends. I'm socially incompetant and find starting any kind of conversation awkward, much more so with people I've never met face to face and hardly know ...and I don't imagine I'm unique in that respect. Bottom line, if I don't initiate conversations with people it's NOT because I dislike them, I'm just not comfortable with it.
I probably would like to be more actively involved with other people in the game, but I don't require it to enjoy playing. I'm still happy enough bumbling around solo, and as long as I am I'll continue playing. I guess if one has higher expectations of the community side of the game it's bound to affect one's enjoyment more if it seems like your expectations aren't being met, or worse still, it's deteriorating. Maybe I just have low expectations...
As someone somewhere once said - "Hope is but the first step on the road to disappointment". lol!
While this is clearly cause fr discomfort for me in particular and yes it is rather personal buit its incredibley insulting also to take one point that I had to make clrea as it was missed and suggest that was my sum and total greivence. Im not such a drip that one thing would bother me and have it put me off playing the way it has.
I merely clarified on thqat aspect as it was continually being skipped over.
as in real life a difference of a freind an a asossiate often gets confused.
i've have a few real freinds ingame ,i've plenty of people who think global freinds list ="team plz" and use it as a cross over from COH to COV depending whos on.
the other problem is as in real life freinds move on they make new freinds.
apart from avin fun when i log on , i expect very little but am more often supprised.
if i had great expectations i would be more often disapointed. 
they cant hurt you, you can only hurt yourself.
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as in real life a difference of a freind an a asossiate often gets confused.
i've have a few real freinds ingame ,i've plenty of people who think global freinds list ="team plz" and use it as a cross over from COH to COV depending whos on.
the other problem is as in real life freinds move on they make new freinds.
apart from avin fun when i log on , i expect very little but am more often supprised.
if i had great expectations i would be more often disapointed.
they cant hurt you, you can only hurt yourself.
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Oh quite true. I am after all a man of the world. And also a buddhist so hey preaching to the converted on that one.
In real life I have peoples numbers I havent called in months and vice versa. Its not big deal thats not quite what Im driving at. Hell some of my closest friends havent seen or spoken to me in some time.
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I have people on my global friends list I havent talked to in weeks. Why? Because they havent bothered to talk to me.
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Maybe they're thinking the same thing? 'He won't talk to me so I won't talk to him'...
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While this is clearly cause fr discomfort for me in particular and yes it is rather personal buit its incredibley insulting also to take one point that I had to make clrea as it was missed and suggest that was my sum and total greivence. Im not such a drip that one thing would bother me and have it put me off playing the way it has.
I merely clarified on thqat aspect as it was continually being skipped over.
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Nothing to be insulted by i state my opinion to avoid generalisations although i seem to be getting lost now to what you say cause of a bit complex way it is said. however my point is i see where u come from however no reason to stick on some people that seem to ignore you if thats the case rather than move on as there is a bunch of people out there that are always good fun. Need names? i can give on top of my head even though i not see them all time i know as people they awsome: MC,Coin,All the femmes,TC members,Warriors,TANC,Goonies,HU,Plight0r SG Ootcs and thats just quickly spreading first names coming to my mind.
Dont stick to people that seem to bring grief to you thats about it. I hope i understand your posts correct if i dont sorry i ll try sort it out with people that have and repost.
I have noticed all the things you have pointed out but to let them get to you is just wrong,you can't controll what goes on in this game nor should you try to, instead do what I do,team and chat with friends dont hang around places where the n00bs spam and talk **** (not that I know you do that but you know what I mean) and if someone says somthing you dont like or acts a certain way just remeber that you dont like them and try and avoid them,even the most experenced members of this comunity can have a bad day or two and seem like they have really bad attitudes.
The only thing that really bothers me about this community atm is that when ever Lui speaks about 20 people jump on his back insulting him and telling him to shut up,which is really out of order no matter what he has done.
Aphex says eat a bannana!
PS:try some rose tinted glasses,they work for me
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I have noticed all the things you have pointed out but to let them get to you is just wrong,you can't controll what goes on in this game nor should you try to, instead do what I do,team and chat with friends dont hang around places where the n00bs spam and talk **** (not that I know you do that but you know what I mean) and if someone says somthing you dont like or acts a certain way just remeber that you dont like them and try and avoid them,even the most experenced members of this comunity can have a bad day or two and seem like they have really bad attitudes.
The only thing that really bothers me about this community atm is that when ever Lui speaks about 20 people jump on his back insulting him and telling him to shut up,which is really out of order no matter what he has done.
Aphex says eat a bannana!
PS:try some rose tinted glasses,they work for me
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I dont think singularly any of it would get to me its when t lumps to gether and well degrades as it were.
I honestly see the off days becoming off weeks and the bad elements getting worse.
I hear you on the blaster guy thung but can I ask you to edit to get rid of his name please? But yes thse who go for him are at least as bad as him. And to me worse really.
i agree, and i also have been sad that some good friends of mine have been leaving, *sigh* for the days of me an nightfire(the cloud twins)*sigh* anyhw i find that if you get a good lot of people together it can still be fun, call on the goonies sometime, we'll help ya out
Hmm, well some people may not start conversations because they are naturally reserved and rather shy. I include myself in that category. Hell would freeze over before I'd initiate a conversation with someone let alone send out a team invite - or even ask for one.
It's not meant to be rude or anything like that, it's really tough to get out of that mindset once it's been a part of your life for so long.
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A bit more on topic... I kinda like random teaming, its fun a lot of the time, and if everyone resorts to teaming with just 7 members of their SG from now on, thats just a bit sad and obviously is cliquey.
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I am sorry but this is wrong. Noone can dictate me who is good to team with. My SG is small i like to level up with them and that makes me play in small teams with people from my SG and coalition. Thats is not clique thats is having friends and actually hanging around with them. You cant seriously tell me just because i not go in PUG's thats means i am clique. Its a personal choice.It doesnt ruin your fun or anyone else's fun and certainly its not a wrong thing.I definetely disagree with that
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I have people on my global friends list I havent talked to in weeks. Why? Because they havent bothered to talk to me.
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Maybe they're thinking the same thing? 'He won't talk to me so I won't talk to him'...
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I think Empath is spot on, & makes the point I'd agree with the most. It's an unfortunate knock on effect from having great facilities like global chat channels. Unfortunately as arena & public chat just got ever worse I think a lot of people have given up on it ever getting better again & retreated into reliable channel groups where people act civily, are fun & friendly & have a good laugh or share common interests & views. I have to be honest & say for sure that I've taken out arena & broadcast chat as nothing has got better, despite the complaints made by us all as a whole here, & the petitions we've surely made as individuals. It's not like I don't want to interact on public channels, I'd love to, it's just not worth the bother, when I can easily click open my sg & coaltion channels & find a relaxed fun environment to participate in with no interference from players who find it fun to swear, harrass & grief. I'm sure other players find the same thing. Things just evolve from there. You grow with those you play with most often & those who become real friends you want to spend time with, & unfortunately you tend to hear little from the great people you used to chat to, and they're just doing the same thing, gravitating towards people they tend to play or interact with the most.
It's also unfortunate that, at the other end of your screen you just simply cannot tell what someone else is up to. They could be afk, in a hectic team situation, already participating in an invloved conversation, or even just having some quiet time to chill after a really nasty day at work. It's hard to not feel it sometimes, but no answer doesn't have to mean someone doesn't like you, are ignoring you or something.
I've gotten the wrong end of the stick sometimes myself, but it pays big rewards to simply make an effort, ask the person you're concerned about, find out how they are etc. It's easy to get things distorted at the other end of a keyboard.
It's not so great when you haven't heard from people for a long long time & all you suddenly get is a load of tells demanding something & then a load of grief because of circumstances that mean you just can't drop everything & run help kill this or that or start someone a team so they can get some levels. No one wants to feel their gametime has to be soley spent being moaned at about how this or that is rubbish.
Obviously, with any community, there are those who behave dubiously or you might consider to be generally duplicitous or nasty, but it's really unavoidable in any environment. I think it's a little early to say Defiants community is terminally ill or something. I can name a whole bunch of people I've rarely spoken to or teamed with, but have recently done so, & had a good time & hopefully shared some fun.
I personally really enjoyed the community & recent server events that have happened, & I've usually got something enjoyable out of it.
Anyway, I'm not sure I even made sense there .
Go hunt. Make friends .
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I have people on my global friends list I havent talked to in weeks. Why? Because they havent bothered to talk to me. I dont mean the ocasional friend you just dont get around to talking to. We all do that. I mean the people who have put me on global friends and see my chat on two public channels. Most noteably Evo chat and coaltion.
It came clear to me that I was the one intiatiting chat. When I stopped talking not a word was said. Teams were getting formed and mutual friends of mine were getting on those teams and not a word to me. My tells were getting ignored and on one occaision within seconds I saw the recipent of that tell chat away to someone on a public channel. And wasnt long ago I was solo and needed to get on someones team. I asked on coalition and not a word.
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And not once it occured to you that it might be your fault they are not talking to you or taking you to teams?
I have no idea what you are talking about. I still have good time here. Lots of friends and nice community. Sure there are few bad apples around but nothing says you have to eat them. Get the good ones and ignore the bad ones. And for the love of god don't take things so bloody seriously! And that goes for everyone
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
I've got to say I dont often talk to global friends on global if they're in my SG, cause I normally talk on that global channel instead and not to anyone in particular. Have two global friends I hardly ever talk to, but then I see one in real life every friday and the other most saturdays.
I hope people aren't thinking that I ignore them on Global because I hardly use it
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"