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Lode posted originally because he was feeling less a part of things on the server as a whole, mainly because people he thought of as in-game friends are actively ignoring him and his requests for teams. The discussion has wandered off topic I feel.
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I think personally the OP created a community issue when there wasnt actually one and overdramatized to a doomsday situation where there is some short of salvation necessary.
Thats my opinion.
And feeling less part of the server cause your global friends ignore means is time to change the global friends list and not blame the community as whole.
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Im sorry you feel that way TG. But it seems you havent taken in much of what I said at all. That other people are getting this worse than me. And some have posted here expressing this feeling.
Also I grow tired of the one example I used as a ignorance tactic as the source of my OP. I felt the need to clarify a certain situation that was being over looked and being compared to situtations where its busy player or just an innocent lul in communication. As I say that was one syptom of what I have been seeing and was not the sum and total of my complaint.
Im not some neurotic drip suffering from hissyfits. If that were the case I wouldnt be talking about it for months with other players. Rather than ranting at first sign of minor hassle (or at least I assume I would do that). I actually thought this through.
Also from your stand point I can see where you thought there was a contridiction in the quotes you took. If Ican simplify I mean I am seeeing the presence of cliques and even clique contests (of a sort) in open events. Not only that but also Ive seen a "get a load of me" from some to get our attention but still manage to exclude the rest of us. Its hard for me to enjoy community events when this is happening. (Yes I know your going to say you cnt see it and some of us can so stalemate again). I would feel better if the regular day to day biz were more open as public events are pouring perfume on the proverbial pig in some cases.
When I see a bit of lift in the stonewalls maybe then Ill feel more at ease. If you dont agree I hope you at least see my postion.
hey lode - long thread!
therea a lot of changes taking place in CoH. I prob feel it more acutely as I take long breaks and come back. And even in the space of a few weeks - huge changes take place. I'm not talking abt in game developments; but to the 'feel' of the community.
But in essesnce - that is wot makes any MMORPG so gd isnt it? The dynamism of it all (be it for the better or the worst). Many a time - I hav felt the way u hav, but I hav yet to give up on CoH; cos I find the game fun. So a few people annoy u - hey, thats life 
And just chalk it up to experience.
If people are forming cliques - so wot? Do u want in such a grp anyways?
I spend as much time with my SG mates as well as PUG. SG -mate teaming is far more efficient, and can be loads of fun, but if u just do that exclusively; well - u are contributing to the whole elitism thing urself then. PUG can be a gamble- but u get to meet new people! And IMHO - its teaching/showing people how u can play this game with courtesy and friendliness by ur own actions - is the way for teh community to grow and to improve.
Play the game. Play the game the way u like to play it. Dont let the bad apples spoil ur fun, cos then - they win. And if good poeple like u leave the game, whose gonna help change the game for the better?
Well thats my 2 cents worth. Thanks for the time peeps 
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Im sorry you feel that way TG. But it seems you havent taken in much of what I said at all. That other people are getting this worse than me. And some have posted here expressing this feeling.
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Please specifically post out specifically the parts and the posters here that express the same as you cause i am going throught the thread now and except this:
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Spot on Lode....agreed.
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i really fail to see any other posts supporting the original post
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I would feel better if the regular day to day biz were more open as public events are pouring perfume on the proverbial pig in some cases.
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I would quote every single post on this forum but i cant go through 10 pages to start copy all these posts saying that there is not really much of a problem long term and new players that is.
As far as the community events goes we might as well stop having any cause simply they seem to serve nothing no?
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When I see a bit of lift in the stonewalls maybe then Ill feel more at ease. If you dont agree I hope you at least see my postion.
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i dont agree and actually i see your position in terms of you need a new global friends list thats about it and to chill out and enjoy the game.I hope this whole thing that annoys you and whoever created it to you goes by. To me i stand in my position this is overdramtized and i am not alone in this.
EDIT going throught all the posts now so i have to say that there is actually the following:
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The community has taken a downturn for the worse since I took my break 4 months ago, just prior to I6 coming in. It seems less friendly than before, and people are more willing to jump down people's throats nowadays, which definitely wasn't the case before CoV came out.
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I too have felt a shift in the community in the last few months. Not within our SG and coalition, its stronger than ever but the general community has deteriorated sharply.
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This to me isn't a new phenomenon. I think you have already pointed out the reason why its affecting you now, friends you had in game have left and you have ended up on the outside looking in.
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but i point out that these posts dont speak about community as going downhill but simply the change that took place except Sar's post.
Im afraid TG I am convinced of my claim. Although the title "Whats wrong with defieant today?" is about the numerous problems and was an open invite to air them all as I know I had covered just a few. You STILL zoom in on one part.
Out rhetoricing me really has done nothing other than give support to those who agree with you. And if ths thread is fast degenerating in a war of words then I think that would undermine my view point. In the end dont want to listen? I dont want to talk. Im sick of repeats back and forth. Its getting nowhere.
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In the end dont want to listen?
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if i didnt want to listen i wouldnt post in first place.I post cause most of all i care as i stated for this community. Healthy disagreement is a sign of progress.I didnt flame and of course i listened every single thing was said here.
I dont zoom in one part but simply some parts strike out too much and need to be debated.As i said above from the 12 pages now of posts i quoted the places where you find indeed some people worrying regarding some server issues that mainly focus if you check the posts regarding the certain increase of abuse over broadcast channels and profanity spat out. I can point out as it was said that there is an individual that was responsible for the whole war climate as well as a bunch of people that thought it was fun to slag him repeatedly over broadcast. It has been said this is bound to change as there is effort on both sides and petition is your friend as Bridger pointed out.
As far as the rest of your complaint the summary comes down to this
1)cliques, the debate here tends to show that cliques are and will be the nature of MMO however the CoH clique is mainly people sticking with their SG's/coalitions/friends after so long in this game
2)Some change in the community that obviously made the community a bad place to be since you are making goodbye post and you not really wanna log on
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Out rhetoricing me really has done nothing other than give support to those who agree with you
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I cannot possibly outrhetorice you since English is not my native language and all i do is present my arguements and reasons i support something. If you feel i outrhetorice you means my arguements have some basis.I dont make up the arguements i have presented so far.All is based from my experience within this community which is pretty big since i am here since the start plus i have been active within the community since the start and i seen it in all stages till now.Tbh from the people that posted now supporting the fact that things are not so doom as they are presented noone has anything to gain.In fact is well known that if a situation like this existed the long term members have more to lose right now from a derailing community.So if this was the case indeed it would be expected that most would have spoken up and said exactly that so that there is some action taken.
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In the end dont want to listen? I dont want to talk.Im sick of repeats back and forth. Its getting nowhere.
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If you not want to talk as i said is up to you everyone has listened and the 12 pges posts seem that there was a debate about. as i said i listen and disagree cause i saw nothing that supports the whole arguement plus the overall experience and testimonies of a large amount of people seem to support the opposite.
If you are sick of repeats back and forth guess what i am.
And the testimonies of my friends mean nothing? You use only the forums as a way to determine the state of play? Id look beyond where your gettin your info. Repeats annoying you? Well no point doing them is there?
Its true more will be lost for long standing members id the community goes downhill. But when ego trips kick in rationality goes out the window. Well known fact.
Didnt flame no but some of it has been borderline.
Well the community certainly is clique based, but then most gaming ones are these days, Lode. I've noticed it going on around the forums a bit but to be fair the majority of people whether part of an established microcosm or not are very welcoming towards new players, there are as you say though a nearly equal proportion of outright idiots amongst those notable names; fortunately said idiots don't tend to get many people wanting to know them anyway and when they do chime up to say something ridiculous they're put in their place quite quickly.
I certainly can't claim to be innocent of clique mentality, like Generalissimo I tend to either play solo or with my own little imported community, it's a group of good friends who just stick together across gaming titles after sharing a tight-knit guild in a much older MMO that shut down. So usually I'm either soloing or playing with them, that said though I do socialise with others on a fairly frequent basis, and even if I'm not grouping with others I've met in CoH/CoV at the time I'm still quite friendly and talkative with them in /tells or on Global.
The only real advice I can offer you as a friend is that if you are finding the behaviour of certain groups of players to be unacceptable, and that it is ruining your gameplay experience, your best course of action would simply be to stop associating with those people and spend your time with others. If the problem groups have any sort of decency or integrity they'll start asking why you don't want anything to do with them and possibly even go as far as to reign themselves in, and if they don't then it merely confirms the belief they weren't worth bothering with in the first place; in which case you'll find you enjoy the game more for it anyway.
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And the testimonies of my friends mean nothing? You use only the forums as a way to determine the state of play? Id look beyond where your gettin your info.
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If you read what i said you will find out i said that for me it all sums up from the posts made here plus the discussions that took place within the game.And i have a really really wide circle of friends which makes a pretty good indicator. There players out there that are part of the long term population and are well known for their calmness and neutral stance on things like this that were pretty vertical regarding their disagreement on this whole thing. And this means a lot.Of course your friends opinion count the problem is what is exactly their opinion and the reasons they agree with you.
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Repeats annoying you? Well no point doing them is there?
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Well if the drama keeps on seems we ll be going round and round.Plus i didnt say they annoy me.I can go on all day supporting what i firmply believe till something makes me change mind and that would be a valid arguement which till now has not been provided anywhere.
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Its true more will be lost for long standing members id the community goes downhill. But when ego trips kick in rationality goes out the window. Well known fact.
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Yes true but the people that actually compose the core of the community meaning the long term players that care for this community dont have ego issues.Otherwise some things around here wouldnt have changed to the best.
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Didnt flame no but some of it has been borderline.
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Feel free use the notify moderator option.I posted nothing but my arguemets.As everyone very well knows i dont mumble what i have to say i say it loud and clear even if it annoys others. Thats me. I wont wrap things up in a nice cover so its nice rosey.I give you the truth no matter if it hurts or not. I didnt use derogatory terms, i am still in healthy debate mode and certainly respect your opinion but i disagree totally with the majority of what is said and the way it is presented.
I think there is an argument to be made on this topic for both sides.
For one yes the communtiy isnt what it use to be and yes i can see where people are coming up with the word cliques.
There imo is many factors to this down turn and alot have all ready been said in this post.
But i would also say there is still a community out there its just a case of looking for it and finding the right kind of new people who have joined us.
There is also alot of people who are out there trying there best to keep the community alive, many of them long time players and long running SG.
And belive me its getting harder to try and do this i try to help new people where i can but sometimes its not welcome help or advise and you run the risk of taking a fall for trying to do something good, but thats the nature of things.
All i can say lode is i do understand what your trying to say but i also think if you look around im sure you will find the community is still here all be it at a lesser degree.
And hey its are community in the end and its up to those of us who have been here a long time to set an exemple to the new guys.
Another thing to consider, are 'cliques' in the community a bad thing? Not all playstyles or attitudes work well together and trying to make them doesn't do anyone any good.
The best example I can think of is back on the SWG server I used to play on. The roleplay community on that server was very big and had some huge splits in it where people on either side were not going to get on well and you had people in the middle trying to make them because they were all roleplayers so in their minds they had to get on well. That always just lead to the dislikes and arguments flaring up again and causeing the people in the middle the most grief.
If they had just accepted that and people stayed with the groups they liked or moved between both if they didn't have a problem with either then alot of hassel and arguments would have been saved and the two sides might have been able to be politier to each other making for a nicer overall community. IMO at least 
Has the community changed for the worse while I have been here?
No.
All the problems with the "community" were visible prior to my arrival and just a symptom of this type of game.
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And hey its are community in the end and its up to those of us who have been here a long time to set an exemple to the new guys.
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I really believe that this kinda sums it up all for me personally. It was never claimed that the community is what it was half a year ago but then again it got better at points while lost at some others. However one thing it kept is a strong core of long term players that try to keep it together (look a tthe oldest server SG's)with a lot of new players joining in this effort.Instead of pointing out that the community is facing a dooms path set imho there should be more effort put in actually setting the example and trying to change things around. Like Avernal said and many others pointed out after reading the OP:
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The only real advice I can offer you as a friend is that if you are finding the behaviour of certain groups of players to be unacceptable, and that it is ruining your gameplay experience, your best course of action would simply be to stop associating with those people and spend your time with others.
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I wont go on regarding this thread anymore unless is really necessary.This place has had its ups and downs and in the face of waiting another issue to come out overdramatic posts of community derail, when the overall opinion is pointing that despite some issues that have come up lately, dont really help.This place goes on as always and with a pulse strong as ever at its core with people added along the way that do their best to help around people (*points Avernal as an example and his work on the Technical part of the forums that proved to be invaluable,Lost Ninja and Khaine star on the suggestions forum,supergrouphub from FW's etc).
Rogue Unionite sticking in her own $0.02:
A "clique" can only really be judged from the outside. If an outsider has a bad run-in with a member of a clique, he/she is likely to judge the whole group based on the words/actions of one person. This is basically a reversal of the "any friend of blah is a friend of mine" rule.
i.e. If they're such an annoying/cruel/strange person, there friends must be equally as annoying/cruel/strange. It's false logic, but people are quick to judge, and basing a person on the type of friends they have is gradually becoming more common.
This wouldn't be a problem if everyone got along with everyone else; but the chances of that ever happening are laughable. You simply will not find good in everyone you ever meet. Now if member A of the clique doesn't like outsider C, the chances of C ever becoming a part of said clique are quite slim. Unless C meets member B, and they hit it off.
Yet this still causes problems. If C joins the group, and still doesn't get along with A, either C is unwillingly forced out, or A is. No group of friends want to lose someone just because they have a problem with another friend.
I'm still not decided as to whether cliques are a good or a bad thing. I adore my friends and will do anything for them, yet I don't want to have to cut off another potential friend just because he/she doesn't get on with...TG, say.
My advice (if you'll take it) for all Defiantites who believe the community is going downhill, is to branch out. Speak to people you wouldn't normally even think of talking to. Newbies perhaps? Even those you previously considered "n00bs". If just one of you can make a new friend, you might be able to start to re-build your community.
Remember, a stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet.
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I'm still not decided as to whether cliques are a good or a bad thing. I adore my friends and will do anything for them, yet I don't want to have to cut off another potential friend just because he/she doesn't get on with...TG, say.
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I will still harpoon you stase *harpoons*
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If just one of you can make a new friend, you might be able to start to re-build your community.
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The problem here is that Defiant community doesnt need rebuild since its exactly the same mostly although some people who were really loved in this community have gone. The only problem that has risen up is the amount of tools spitting abuse and profanity across channels and harassment at every given opportunity and should be petitioned at every chance till support takes action. No rebuild really necessary and certainly no broken community as the OP makes it appear which is totally wrong and has created a situation out of the blue.
You know better than I, TG . All I see of Defiant happens via Global Chat channels. If I was to make any assumptions based on that, the whole server would be full of: strange pink girlies (by the name of Pyra), mad DJs, the occasional hardcore player with 6 or 7 level 50s and LDF.
My advice was just for those people who are upset because they view Defiant as a bad community; whether it's true or not, the only real thing that matters is someone's opinion. If the OP is so very upset about what he believes to be true, to the point of cancelling an account, then all effort should be directed towards trying to get him to believe otherwise.
Uhm, ok, an example:
If I was to say to Weasel, "You're bad at writing!" which is not true by any stretch of the imagination, he may still be hurt by it. But if it's not true, why is he hurt? Because he believes it to be true, or at least has some doubt that it isn't.
As you all know, I'm a Unionite - but I hope I can say that I have a lot of friends on Defiant, and wouldn't want to lose any of them, equally as I wouldn't want to lose any of my Unionite friends. So, true or not, it's the opinion that counts this time -- not the facts .
Everything above is my opinion, by the way 
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My advice was just for those people who are upset because they view Defiant as a bad community; whether it's true or not, the only real thing that matters is someone's opinion. If the OP is so very upset about what he believes to be true, to the point of cancelling an account, then all effort should be directed towards trying to get him to believe otherwise.
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Apologies i actually misread what u said earlier.(is all Greek to me etc..)
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My advice was just for those people who are upset because they view Defiant as a bad community; whether it's true or not, the only real thing that matters is someone's opinion. If the OP is so very upset about what he believes to be true, to the point of cancelling an account, then all effort should be directed towards trying to get him to believe otherwise.
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Apologies i actually misread what u said earlier.(is all Greek to me etc..)
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If it is all greek to you shouldn't you be fully fluent at reading it?
And the picking at one point of my post continues. So once mor round the block I'll try and take you another route to see if it helps.
The matter of people on my friends list being ignorant was the straw that broke the cammels back and made me think there was something wrong with the community. The months leading toit slowly made me see it that way. Along with other peoples assesment of it all. Was not one incident it has been for some time a growing feeling of constant decline ending in this example. No more true emphesis should be placed on it than any other point made here by anyone.If you think that is the be all and end all of my need to post think again. It was simply an exclamation mark at the end of it all nothing more. And so my post is not speaking of something out the blue. Its been a creeping crack.
If you continue to focus on that example then you are going to think it was out the blue. Its just going to make you feel better about your opinions while no less valid than anyone elses seem to be disregarding details that may alter your standpoint if you were to accept them if only to a lesser degree. As is trying to use excuses like "I have been here for a year with one month off and you have had lots of time off so Im not in tune with my surroundings. Get a clue. Its clutching at straws and the longest time I have had out at once was a forced two weeks. Not long enough for me to become a stranger again. People still recognised me.
Its clear by now Im not backing down surely? And as to why are some of the people I speak of not saying anything mostly its due to reprisals as Im told or that they agree but couldnt waste their energy on this debate as its a lost cause to mkae the tribes change their ways. And thats really sad.
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The matter of people on my friends list being ignorant was the straw that broke the cammels back and made me think there was something wrong with the community. The months leading toit slowly made me see it that way. Along with other peoples assesment of it all. Was not one incident it has been for some time a growing feeling of constant decline ending in this example. No more true emphesis should be placed on it than any other point made here by anyone.If you think that is the be all and end all of my need to post think again.
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Apparently then you need specify reason why the community is going down cause if you read everyone's posts around here they all advise you to not mind the people that treat you bad and move on getting new friends. Obviously i am not the only one to be thinking that you base the whole community issue on your friends list. Make a list and state what you think is wrong so it is actually understood.
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As is trying to use excuses like "I have been here for a year with one month off and you have had lots of time off so Im not in tune with my surroundings. Get a clue. Its clutching at straws and the longest time I have had out at once was a forced two weeks. Not long enough for me to become a stranger again. People still recognised me.
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Thats no excuse thats a fact. As for recognition i dont see how it has to do anything with all that. Bottom line is that apparently you missing community has evolved due to to the nature of the game.An old part of it was lost and and some new parts were gained. You dont seem able to deal with it for some reason and this is being called a community derail when is not. I not see anyone feeling the same and tbh like i said in a really wide circle of discussions people are pleased from the community unity except the standard annoyance from the EULA breach on broadcasts.
You still think there is issue?fine.Make a post and propose the changes you feel are necessary for this community to get back on the way and to be saved from the doom that is obviously heading.And all that agree may follow the proposed changes.
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Its clear by now Im not backing down surely? And as to why are some of the people I speak of not saying anything mostly its due to reprisals as Im told or that they agree but couldnt waste their energy on this debate as its a lost cause to mkae the tribes change their ways. And thats really sad.
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yes and i am sure these people care loads for this community when there is no speaking up regarding a place you come to everyday.To me this sounds pretty much like turning the back when u actually consider not participating in a constructive debate and using the cba attitude.
And just like whoever doesnt speak up cause they cant waste energy on changing the tribes as they call it same goes for everyone that finds nothing really wrong. And tbh i cant waste anymore evergy as well since the people actually have the issue dont bother to speak up to at least help themselves. This community rox,is friendliest place you can find online, people are helpful kind and always nice to each other and new players with the odd tool exceptions that should be petitioned till hell freezes over.
As for repirsals i think the reprisals ended with the Inquisition so its a pretty dll excuse to say you are afraid the reprisals in a game.
Me personally i am not convinced thats about it and i leave it agreeing to disagree with the whole thing. Of course thats just me.
I too have said they should speak up. That we do agree on. As with most people its just a feeling of fencing in and such. Not on thing but a general thing you cant decribe but you know there. Like when a kid cant get beer as he looks underage. Few years later he is not even challenged. 10 years ferom that he still lokks the same but its clear somehow he is fully mature. Hard to describe and I admit myself it makes it hard such a case. But I think we have all had a simiar situation of it in our lives where something feels wrong. And so to avoid paranoia I asked others. Or they approached me.
As for change well I see little change. I have been pushing for new content and such. Im for change. What I see is stagnation. Its not change Im afraid of at all. As for time on server well. since beginning of April I think is fair long enough and not much shorter than your time. No its not relevent but you brought it up on another forum is all.
Well I guess its all a case of take two of these and call me in the morning as the doctor joke goes.
Well I think Dead Calm and Stasis pretty much hit spot on.
Are there cliques? Probably
Are they threatening our community? All a matter of opinion from one person to the next.
If you think they are a problem I suggest staying clear of them. In most cases you can't change a clique, what you can do is lead by example. Team with others, pick up strangers and help the community that way by showing others how open and welcoming we are.
If you don't think there's a problem, well then you need not worry and can keep on your merry way.
And if you've been reading this threat I hope you all got inspired if nothing else. To be open minded and make Defiant a more pleasant place to be!
I see nothing wrong in the way you do your grouping Aerie (felt like adding that). I personally ask in SG and look at global friends list when I try and put a team together and usually that gets the ball rolling. Usually also leaves a few opens spots as well and then I look for the random person lft or needing some help. As long as you're respecful and you do your function within my team I'm more then happy to have you along for some fun times.
Ok and now back to being myself....
How dare you come here and stick your nose in our clique Stasis!
for those that don't know me. That was a JOKE!
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And if you've been reading this threat I hope you all got inspired if nothing else. To be open minded and make Defiant a more pleasant place to be!
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Indeedy. Although I don't have any complaint with the community as it is, it's gutting me to see so many leave 
.
Perhaps if these feelings are out there, I think I'll personally make extra effort to ensure we wouldn't be considered this way, & that all new players find a good home in what is a indeed great & fun community.
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And the testimonies of my friends mean nothing? You use only the forums as a way to determine the state of play? Id look beyond where your gettin your info. Repeats annoying you? Well no point doing them is there?
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You keep referring to these friends of yours... imaginary friends? Maybe you should get them to write in this thread too instead of just putting words to their mouth. I could also say that I have lots of testimonials from friends who think that the situation is not as grim as you make it seem to be... oh hey just noticed! You CAN read them in this thread.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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And the testimonies of my friends mean nothing? You use only the forums as a way to determine the state of play? Id look beyond where your gettin your info. Repeats annoying you? Well no point doing them is there?
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You keep referring to these friends of yours... imaginary friends? Maybe you should get them to write in this thread too instead of just putting words to their mouth. I could also say that I have lots of testimonials from friends who think that the situation is not as grim as you make it seem to be... oh hey just noticed! You CAN read them in this thread.
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Im afriad you are a prime example of the situation Im speaking of. You have done nothing but prove my pint and be insulting at the same time.
We all have something to add to this discussion. What I think you should bring is silence.Flaming has helped your case none. You have continually tried to snipe at me and make unfounded allegaions as to my character for which you have no grounds at all to do. Not a single constructive comment has come from you regarding this and its nopt the first time I have read obnoxious comments from you on these boards.
Thanks for being a shining example of the type of behaviour Im referring to.
And oh wait. I even said I agree that they should post here but you clearly missed that along with the reasons by which they have chose not to.
IMO there is nothing wrong with the Defiant server at all. As many of you are aware the Plastic Army is all but dead, due to players leaving post-ED. The villainous arm (Plastic Empire) is alive and well, but this has meant me spending a lot of time teaming on CoH with peeps who I had never met before and I have had no problem at all. There is an old saying "A stranger is just a friend who you haven't met yet" and I really believe this is the case, as many of the new friends I have met have joined our TS server and now have become a regular part of our little family.
I thinks it's time for many players to lighten up and go with the flow, meet new players (both good and bad) and have fun!
@Byrne
Debtmeister General of The Plastic Army & Empire