Stalkers are more overpowered than anything else!!
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correct me if I'm wrong - most, if not all, AT's have a +perception power to assist in picking us out.
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Ok your wrong 
Actually my blaster can't stop a stalker smashing him. My defender can't and neither can my scrapper. Ok the scrapper will accept the blow and wipe the floor with the stalker, but thats not the point. The one shot kill thing went into a huge debate on the old boards. I think the conclusion was that one shot kill is bad but 2 hit kill is fine.
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Sure he will khaine_star, We believe you, Stalkers are effectively scrappers that can hide, It depends on which power sets you pick tho E.g you would have no change against an energy melee stalker
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No, they aren't (scrappers who can hide).
Stalkers have Low Hit Points compared to a Scrapper with Medium.
AFAIK, Stalkers have a slightly lower maximum damage potential than Scrappers.
Anyone playing a Stalker as if they were a Scrapper is going to be face down a lot.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Anyone playing a Stalker as if they were a Scrapper is going to be face down a lot.
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Amen. I made that mistake - briefly - in beta. Now I know better, and I don't try and fight like a scrapper. Hit, exchange a few quick blows, run away. That is how you live to fight another day.
And I think that's what gets peoples goats. We don't hang around to slug it out toe to toe. I'm not an advanced player of other AT's - mostly I play scrappers, a few blasters, an offender - but from what little I do know, I get the impression that even controllers hang around to duke it out; metaphorically speaking, of course, in that they exercise their powers instead of literally standing toe to toe.
But that doesn't work for stalkers. In the final analysis, our secondaries are there to keep us alive while we hightail it, hide up and come back for another try. Against mobs, they'll keep us alive enough to scrap one or two, thin the odds before we have to bail. Against an equal level player AT... I don't think that works. We don't have the DPS of blasters or scrappers, the defence of tanks, the buffs of defenders or the control capability of (natch) controllers. We don't even have much in the way of hit points; heck, even a Blapper could (probably) take us in a standup fight. The only thing we have going for us is assassination and stealth, and it makes us play, I think, in a way that is unlike any other AT. I personally think this is a good thing, but I appreciate that YMMV.
I'm prepared to test it out. If we can figure a way to arrange some duels, my stalker is 14 going on 15, I'm happy to go up against different AT's in a standup fight to see how it goes. But I expect to be capped for debt by the time I've gone through all the AT's.
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People always have something to complain about. I think the archetypes were nerfed enough in the last update. Learn to play against stalkers and stop wingin you winy little children
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Agreed. Yesterday I pvped at two different times during the day in Siren's Call. Both times the groups I was pvping against both knew what they were doing. The first team had a someone who seemed to have some sort of perception to me even though it wasn't Tactics. But I just kept my distance from him and concentrated on the rest of the team that was hunting me. I died a couple of times, but not before taking down a fair few of them. The second pvp group was later in the day and I was having major problems with an electric blaster with tactics, I don't have Invis yet, so was relying on my temp power combat Invis to help me a bit. The electric blaster could see me all the time after it ran out and killed me a fair few times...but...and here's the point..I killed him three times, even though he had taken away my main defense, and therefore my main attack to some amount. No one sees everything all the time, even it they can technically see you, watching who they are fighting, what is going on in their head as such, and weather they are baiting you, or have actually forgot about you for a moment I think is the key to good stalking (Now I just have to learn it )
I am in the middle road concerning stalker's one shoting people. I builtup and AS someone last night..no enrages and killed the person (with full health) with one shot. If they nerfed stalker's AS so unless you took enrages you could not one shot someone, it wouldn't bother me. It would not be the death of the stalker, as true stalkers I should imagine don't play a stalker sololy for the ability to one shot.
The Smoking Demon
Ash/Tar Corruptor
Union
@The Smoking Demon
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If they nerfed stalker's AS so unless you took enrages you could not one shot someone, it wouldn't bother me.
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No, the main suggested nerf was to arrange it so that it was simply not possible to 1-shot someone. The assumption is that it would work a bit like falling damage, but only from full hit points. You would always end up with 'a few' hits. So, popping insps, using Build-up, doesn't matter, nothing you did would take away those last few hits. Apart from your second strike, of course.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Stalkers aren't that hard to kill. Killed loads in Sirens yesterday. You just have to be quick once they hit. Once hit I dull pain and boost my HP, TOF, then whack'em, repeatedly....
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If they nerfed stalker's AS so unless you took enrages you could not one shot someone, it wouldn't bother me.
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No, the main suggested nerf was to arrange it so that it was simply not possible to 1-shot someone. The assumption is that it would work a bit like falling damage, but only from full hit points. You would always end up with 'a few' hits. So, popping insps, using Build-up, doesn't matter, nothing you did would take away those last few hits. Apart from your second strike, of course.
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Ah I see, well that sound okay to me.
The Smoking Demon
Ash/Tar Corruptor
Union
@The Smoking Demon
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Stalkers have Low Hit Points compared to a Scrapper with Medium.
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The do definetly, and as well their Defense (secondary) is less effective (apart from hide) than that of Scrapper
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AFAIK, Stalkers have a slightly lower maximum damage potential than Scrappers.
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Actually not just slightly. Scrappers have a Natueral Brawl index of 115%, while Stalker have a base of 80%. Thats not just a bit. But even furthermore After AS we cant krit while a Scrapper can hit for +crit more than once in fight. A high damage Attack criting at 115% of Brawl index is not that far off the AS from a Stalker with AS. Belive me. a Scrapper that can hit me 3 times im down. I most probably need 3 hits on a Scrpper as well. 
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Anyone playing a Stalker as if they were a Scrapper is going to be face down a lot.
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People have made allusions to the proposed changes to AS for Stalkers, so I thought I'd to link to an official word on it
Thanks to Bridger for this post, and for linking to this post in another thread which I happened to be reading, and have shamelessly emulated
I'll agree that Stalkers are just being played the way they are designed to be.
But dammit they are too powerful. And they way they are played (by necessity) is just unfair and frustrating!
Picture the scene. We have a team or 8 heroes. We have a controller Level 50 a Level 38 Fire Tank, a level 38 Blaster amongst others. 4 of us are long time players and have level 50 toons. One of us has two of them. We know all the tricks, we know how to handle our toons.
We had insps, and toggles and AoE's etc etc etc etc.
And yet over the course of a good hour we had trouble with just two stalkers. Mid 20 level stalkers. Over the course of that hour we may have managed to nail them two, maybe three times.
Over that same time frame my blaster died at least 8 times, despite my a)keeping moving, b) being stealthed or invis c) flying as high as my Snipe would allow me to be.
We'd even bait the Stalkers in using our tank. We knew where they were, we chased them. They'd appear, knock a significant damage off of our Tanker (with is fiery aura thing running!!!) and then run and hide before I could get a snipe off or the controllers could control them. Even dropping pets didn't help.
n a couple of ocassions I managed to tag one with a snipe, but within seconds they were invis again. The one we were chasing had TP and was off to the other side of the map before we could nab em.
As I said we were a pretty well informed and well played team. We were diverse in archetype and all high level (even allowing for the auto exemp!). We battled with many villains in Sirens, sometimes we lost, sometimes we won, but at all times it FELT LIKE A FAIR FIGHT!!!!
But the stalkers just feel wrong. They can hit you with massive damage (They one shotted me on at least 4 occasions) and then fade away before you can retaliate. And even if you get a lucky hit they run and hide until they have recovered. Just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth that the one chance you had to beat them has been taken away from you because they are being cowardly.
And I know they aren't because in the same position that's what I'd do. It's just frustrating when you are on the recieving end. Kudos to the Stalker players, they are building and playing them superbly and I can understand the reluctance to see the Nerf bat. Hell I've even rolled a stalker myself and from a villainour PoV I'm enjoying life from the other side of the tracks.
And things got worse when another Stalker arrived that had TP Foe. Then he just TP'd me to him and killed me instead!!
I can't think of another archetype in the game that is this unbalanced. And I know people say pop insps like smarties, get goggles, find a team running leadership bits and bobs etc etc etc. But honestly when you need all that prep to take down one villain doesn't that all seem a bit unbalanced.
After an hour of getting one shotted and trying everything I could think of to find and kill the buggers I gave up. And I don't think I'll be back into PvP until it's fixed. It's too frustrating. Not even with my Stalker. I feel so strongly that it's unfair that I won't partake in going into Sirens Call and picking off squishy blasters at will just because I can.
It's dishonorable to me and no fun for the blaster (unless they are masochistic in nature!). I know I'm a villain and hence not supposed to be honorable, but to me it's just wrong. Feels wrong. I like to earn my kills. I like to feel like I've been in a fight.
But what to do about them. Dunno.
I'd agree that their purpose in life is to be a hidden and dangerous deliverer of a massive Alpha Strike. That's what they are good at. Nerfing either the AS or the Hide function kinda curtails what they are meant to be doing.
Personally I'd like there to be a toggle when you go into a PvP zone that you can use to make yourself fair game or not. I'd like to explore the PvP zones without the being ambushed by stalkers all the time simply because I'm a blaster and hence an easy target.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been killed in Bloody Bay collecting Meteor samples. Stalkers camping the meteor sites and the minute I walk up and have to stand still to trigger the sample collector BANG!!!!
I also find it annoying when I KNOW a stalker is there and I still can't target him. For instance when I was in Bloody Bay and being attacked I went into the water. I knew where he was because of the ripples in the water, but still couldn't target him.
Or couldn't there simply be a temp power that's like the extinguisher but sprays paint at a target which then makes the Stalker visible for a limited time.
I know a lot of people will just say that "you just need to work out your tactics, buy the right temp powers, pop the right insps, be in the right teams" etc etc. But I still feel that a team of 8 shouldn't need to go to all that prep time and effort just to deal with one archetype.
Without Stalkers I'd LOVE PvP. I had some great battles in there with other archetypes.
Just my 2 inf worth.
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
Just as an addendum to my last post.... and before people jump on me.
a) I may be a little misleading in my saying I was "one shotted" but it certainly felt like it. On one occasion I think I was. On a couple more occasions I think that the Stalker had already queued the second attack and it was that that took me down almost immediately. A couple of times it didn't but I did end up stunned and hence helpless to defend myself against the third attack. On all occasions I did not get a chance to defend myself.
b) On at least 6 of those 8 or so occasions I was airborne AND engaged in combat with another villain. All the skill, insps and tactics in the world can't help you when you are concentrating on fighting another opponent. Either way I was NEVER just standing around waiting to be killed.
c) I'm not suggesting for one minute that the Stalker be nerfed unduly. I'm now playing a Stalker on CoV and enjoy him. I just don't like him in PvP. There needs to be an easier way to see them in PvP for heroes or their ability to run away after that initial strike needs to be nerfed. I know that that will rub alot of people up the wrong way, but when I'm in PvP fighting for hotspots, or tangling with a Mastermind, or sampling Meteors etc etc etc I find it frustrating to be killed by a hit and run from a Stalker. And even when I'm ready for them I'm fed up of the hit and run tactics. AS and then SJ or TP out of range quickly. Wait to hide again and repeat.
d) So far all the "Pro" Stalker comments seem to have come from the Stalkers themselves. And all are being fast to justify their powers with tips on how to beat them and a justicfication of "Well we don't hit that often" or "We're really really really squishee". Both of which are utterly pointless retorts if you can't hit them back because they run off so darned fast. These two points only apply if a) we could possibly hold you and b) you stood and fought with us. But as a stalker is basically a hit and run specialist neither of these comes into play. I honestly can't believe that there are any stalkers out there who would admit to being killed more in PvP than they manage to kill themselves. And if they are they are lying to us and to themselves. While in PvP in Bloody Bay for that entire window of time it was Stalkers who were the Bounty Targets.
I think that's all. 
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
OMG I had wondered how long it'd take for a stuff like this to appear. Puurrlease! *sigh*
Stalkers main point is the hit and run they cant stand and fight due to low HP. Its hardly dishonerable. The rights and wrongs of TP foe are another story entirely and its hardlt surprising that villains have taken up this action after what was and is happening from the other way. But that is another tale nowt to do with this and well nowt really to do with only this AT either....
They are not cowards, cheats, dishonerable blah blah blah whatever else you wish to call then they are doing what their AT is for - for goodness sake. Canny really expect a specialised AT's not to do waht ttheir for, in that case defenders shoud be front line attackers instead of healing and buffing in the background 
Nerfing a whole AT just to make PvP seem fairer is totally silly. There was a villain fall out recetly regards stormies - villains have learned to deal with it - thats what you do - you find their weakness and go for it, you dont stand around arguin with them for doing their job. Thats not what PvP is about. Stalkers are a good AT addition to this game - how they play PvP is that player not his AT if you think logically about it
Players are exploiting all sorts of things all over PvP you cant blame stakers for doing the very thing they are made for, some may exploit that too but tarrring and same brush spring to mind.
For my tuppence worth i really dont think they are overpowered or need nerfed - TBPH its silly Cryptic made the AT for a reason and its working. Its just making folks have to think more about tactics rather than standing hitting buttons all night 
All of this is kind of redundant.
Stalkers will be nerfed somewhere in the near future, they're just trying to work out how. Cryptic considers it unfair that someone should be able to one-shot someone else and are going to fix it.
Good news is, this will probably mean AVs can't one-shot you either.
Anyway, as I say, arguing about Stalkers, their ability to one-shot, and whether it's a bad thing or not is kind of pointless. Stalkers will be nerfed to stop it happening.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Got to say it gets a bit boring when people start telling you to stand and fight or calling you a coward. When I play my blaster I play to his strenght same as with my tank but when I do this with my stalker I get called all sorts of names by people its silly really.
Humbly, I would suggest that someone who does not try to escape when they are about to be taken out is called an 'idiot'. So describing a Stalker, who has every reason to operate this way, as a coward is a bit silly, yes.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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They are not cowards, cheats, dishonerable blah blah blah whatever else you wish to call then they are doing what their AT is for - for goodness sake. Canny really expect a specialised AT's not to do waht ttheir for, in that case defenders shoud be front line attackers instead of healing and buffing in the background
Nerfing a whole AT just to make PvP seem fairer is totally silly. There was a villain fall out recetly regards stormies - villains have learned to deal with it - thats what you do - you find their weakness and go for it, you dont stand around arguin with them for doing their job. Thats not what PvP is about. Stalkers are a good AT addition to this game - how they play PvP is that player not his AT if you think logically about it
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ARGH!!! I Wish people would read properly before retaliating. I tried to be fair. Go back and read my post again and you'll find I said nothing of the sort.
I said that I feel dishonorable and cowardly when I play like that and I won't do it. I'm not calling stalkers cowardly or dishonorable at all. I said I completely understood why stalkers play like that because it's the way they are, it's what they do, what they are designed to do and I'd do it too. They are hit and run specialists. That's what they do. I totally and utterly understand that.
I also said that I don't really want them nerfed. I'd rather have something done about balance. Simple things. If I'm in water for example and the ripples are giving them away, why can't I target them??
But my main thrust is that when one single archetype needs so much prep, so many tactics and a complete team to bring them down that there is a balancing issue.
Simple facts. Everytime I'm in PvP it's almost always a stalker on the top of the Villains most wanted list. Whenever I or any of my teammates or friends are in PvP we probably die more than we kill in return. And if you ask any of them I'd wager you they'd say most of their deaths were to Stalkers.
When one archetype dominates PvP to such a degree then there is a problem. You can debate tactics etc all you like and whether we need to learn to fight stalkers etc etc.
Personally I don't like fighting any archetype where I have to a) popping accuracy insps like smarties b) be in a team with someone running tactics at all times, c) hopefully manage to avoid being stunned off the initial AS and then equally hopefully be quick enough to get a shot off before said Stalker jumps or TP's out of range.
I'm all for developing tactics and new skills, I'll even respec my characters to a degree to cope with them. but so far nothing that has been mentioned on this list has even barely managed to develop a fair fight between my humble squishee blaster and a stalker. Most of the tactics are and openings for victory are based on either stunning or holding the Stalker before he legs it.
If anyone has any new tactics I can try then I'd love to hear them.
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
I haven't read the posts previous to this so I apologise if I do repeat something that someone has said earlier.
Personally, I have a Stalker and a Corruptor, and it is a lot of fun being a Stalker in PvP, I do use it for its designed feature, assassination. As I use my Corruptor for support on teams.
Okay back to the point here, if you want a tactic against Stalkers, it isn't a good one, but try moving around as much as possible, don't stand still unless you need to, and even then make it a few seconds tops.
The stalker has this delay on an Assassin Strike, even if u land totally still next to an opponent for half a second and trigger it, it will be interupted automatically.
I remember chasing someone in Bloody Bay trying to to strike them but they kept moving about making it impossible for me to get them.
And if you can afford to launch offensives in the air (way above the ground), that's probably your best bet. Stalkers cannot do Sin Strikes in the air (unless they have hover I think, haven't tested that).
Hope that helps.
TBH spotting stalkers isnt that hard, playing from the villain side, when an empath is around, I hear all the stalkers mumbling about everyone being able to see them. And they are pretty squishy. If you wanna see them take tactics, pop some yellow pills (accuarcy insps), and even hide+stealth can be seen. The important thing to remember is they are 1 trick ponies. Take a blaster with a well slotted snipe attack, who can see the stalker 1 shot on the stalker.
Blimey I'm posting alot today, I must be really bored! hehe!
Hmmm, all good suggestions, but ultimately I tried them all.
a) I burnt through insps (both Insight and CM's) unbelievably fast. Everytime I came out of hospital I restocked. I believe my team were doing the same. (and believe me we were in hospital ALOT!) they don't help that much. You can see them for a limited period of time. But that of course doesn't help you when you are blindsided during battle.
b) As mentioned I was in motion pretty much all the time and flying as high as my snipe would allow. And while up there I got AS'd so I'd pretty much confirm that Stalkers can do it while either hovering or flying. It also doesn't help against a foe with Teleport Foe who just snags you and guts you like a fish.
c) The problem with Sniping them as a blaster. Rogue is an Energy Blaster and I have Snipe 6 slotted. 4 dmg, 1 acc and 1 end red. In order to one shot anyone I have to hit Aim, then Build up, and then Snipe. Have you seen the animation time for that sequence ?!? Yup I managed on a couple of occassions to snipe a stalker, but by the time the bolt shot off that stalker was i) already TPing or SJing away and ii) was already hidden again. TP especially seems a fabulous stalker power cause on the the few occasions I DID nail them they were already on the other side of the map in their base by the time my snipe caught up to them. I never got any sort of "You have defeated" message or any bounty so I either missed or didn't one shot them.
c) And I have a sneaky suspicion that after a while a couple or three stalkers started working as a team. Which just compounded the problem and made stuff worse.
Which is when I bailed out of Sirens call to play DoW!
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
All you really need is one person on your team with + perception I would say a devices blaster is the best for that and have them as the stalker look out. Its what I do with Sharp Shot and he is dam good at it as son as a stalker knows he can be seen he has to be a hell of a lot more carefull.
That doesnt necesserily work. I'm an empath with all tactics powers all 6 slotted and some stalkers can hide from me even when im using insps, im assuming that they're stacking invis with hide...
Defiant
Proud Member of the Liberty Legion
Venture - Emp/En Defender
Seph - Kat/SR Scrapper
Blizzard - Ice/Storm Controller
Legionelosis - Rad/Rad Defender
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That doesnt necesserily work. I'm an empath with all tactics powers all 6 slotted and some stalkers can hide from me even when im using insps, im assuming that they're stacking invis with hide...
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Which is another thing. It's all very good to give all this advice on how to see stalkers by popping insps, getting a team with tactics etc etc etc.....
And maybe that's fine and dandy for dealing with a soloing Stalker.
But what happens when the Stalker teams up with other villains especially other stalkers?? Or maybe a high level Mastermind with all those lovely pets to keep you occupied while Mr (or Miss) Stalker creeps in ?? What happens when he starts stacking invis and stealth and hide et al so your insps don't do a darn thing ?? What happens when he starts popping insps etc (although I don't know if there are any that would help him. Lucks and Sturdy's maybe in huge quantities)
Which brings me back to balance. There is none when a hero has to pop pills and rely on a team of companions specced just so in order to take down a single stalker. *shrug*
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
how would you cope with a team of invisible Villains / Heros?
how do you cope with a controller - Breakfrees ?
if you did have + Perc High enough, you are completely bypassing the stalkers main roll.. he will either try to attack and fail, or will pick an easier target.
please try a stalker in PvP, its harder than you think in SC.
its just there are easy targets and harder targets, if you and your team happen to be the easiest targets, then what do you think the majority of stakers will go for
i try not to attack the same player twice, but sometimes its accidental and others neccessary.
I really cant be bothered to read all of this but if its the usual dross about them being too good then I simply say rubbish. Each and every AT is what you make it and I know Controllers and Defenders who are nigh on impossible to pin down in Sirens Call, also plenty of ATs have PBAOEs and things like ice and fire rain which takes out the hide/AS which is fundamental to the buildand turns a hidden assassin into an exposed squishy.
I dont see why people moan on and on on the same things, I dont whinge about storm controllers, I made a specific build to take them down and from the same logic I could certainly build a stalker hunter. Think it through and you can find a way through anything.
All the regular people I pvp with in Sirens call are an awesome bunch and we have a lot of fun but no of us stand around whinging about each others advantages. I actually think the balance in PVP is very good, if people have problems its generally experience, lack of practice and build.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Ive fought several Stalkers with my regen scrapper only with dull pain at the ready, once im back at full HP the stalker usually runs if they dont they are screwed
People always have something to complain about. I think the archetypes were nerfed enough in the last update. Learn to play against stalkers and stop wingin you winy little children