Who else HATES masterminds?
By
Alexandria2000,
Posted on: 2009-07-26 01:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Seriously, you think most people who play this game even KNOW what keybinds and stuff are? I'm not disputing the fact that they are helpful and should be used, but I guarantee a majority of MM players aren't up to learning it and implementing it into the game. You have to be realistic and not expect everyone to play the way you want them to (you see what I did there?).
And please explain how a brute needs to adapt to their mob being scattered across the whole map.
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So what if you have to fun 5 or 10 more feet to hit them is it really that a big deal?
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When the 3 brutes on your team are AoE centric, yes that is a big deal when footstomp or LR is only hitting 2 targets at a time. It takes away from their strengths, and a good team utilizes everyone's strengths to steamroll. I'm just trying to figure out how brutes and bots MMs can coexist in harmony. 
Edit: And assuming of course that no one on the team has immobilize powers yet.
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And please explain how a brute needs to adapt to their mob being scattered across the whole map.
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And here is the problem, bolded for emphasis. It's not the brute's mob. The team is not there to make sure the brute can play the way he wants. Once you get past your ego issue maybe you will be able to see how ridiculous it is to tell one AT to use a playstyle designed solely to benefit another AT.
edit:
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I'm just trying to figure out how brutes and bots MMs can coexist in harmony.
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No, you're not. You're telling people to change how they play so you don't have to.
Off to roll a Bots/Storm MM, and slot for KB.
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Seriously, you think most people who play this game even KNOW what keybinds and stuff are? I'm not disputing the fact that they are helpful and should be used, but I guarantee a majority of MM players aren't up to learning it and implementing it into the game. You have to be realistic and not expect everyone to play the way you want them to (you see what I did there?).
And please explain how a brute needs to adapt to their mob being scattered across the whole map.
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So what if you have to fun 5 or 10 more feet to hit them is it really that a big deal?
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When the 3 brutes on your team are AoE centric, yes that is a big deal when footstomp or LR is only hitting 2 targets at a time. It takes away from their strengths, and a good team utilizes everyone's strengths to steamroll. I'm just trying to figure out how brutes and bots MMs can coexist in harmony.
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Ok so in about every post you have written so far the only attack you mention is footstomp is that all you know? Seriously your whining over no good reason, lols 10 feet cause you "footstomp" missed a few enemys. Get over yourself.
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And please explain how a brute needs to adapt to their mob being scattered across the whole map.
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And here is the problem, bolded for emphasis. It's not the brute's mob. The team is not there to make sure the brute can play the way he wants. Once you get past your ego issue maybe you will be able to see how ridiculous it is to tell one AT to use a playstyle designed solely to benefit another AT.
Off to roll a Bots/Storm MM, and slot for KB.
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From experience... you won't really need to slot much.
Maybe just one or two powers here and there (Do Tornado and Hurricane even take KB enhancers?). Most of the leverage you can get with just Gale (I've had more then one team boggle at me galeing mobs into each other so I had a perfect clump for Freezing Rain and any missiles my Assault Bot wanted to fire off - go figure, Bot/Storm MMs love tight clumps of mobs too).
Oi, I'm sorry for calling it MY mob. Jeez, you guys turn every word I say into I have an ego problem. Have I not said enough I communicate with my team as much as possible and try to utilize every character? I'm sorry if I come off as having an ego problem.
This complaint comes across as: "I want to shoot fish in a barrel and now I have to shoot them in an inflated kiddie pool-- do I really have to move my wrist this far?"
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go figure, Bot/Storm MMs love tight clumps of mobs too).
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No they don't they only like to make a mess so the brute gets butthurt!!!1one 
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go figure, Bot/Storm MMs love tight clumps of mobs too).
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No they don't they only like to make a mess so the brute gets butthurt!!!1one
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In all seriousness, and to quote Penn & Teller (is there ever a BAD time to quote them?):
That's [censored]! (direct quote there)
Well, I'm pretty much done with this thread since NO ONE seems to understand why almost the entire group getting scattered out of AoE range is a problem (that's not an exaggeration at all, literally every minion except two or three goes flying and runs away). Thanks for the responses, but I'm gonna let this thread die or become a joke thread like most on these forums. >_>
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Well, I'm pretty much done with this thread since NO ONE seems to understand why almost the entire group getting scattered out of AoE range is a problem (that's not an exaggeration at all, literally every minion except two or three goes flying and runs away). Thanks for the responses, but I'm gonna let this thread die or become a joke thread like most on these forums. >_>
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I play Bot/Storm (probably the most KB heavy thing you can get in a Mastermind), and have extensive experience with Scrappers (as my sig-line denotes), Brutes, Night Widows, Tankers, and Stalkers, mate.
You are exaggerating things, or playing with some very careless and inefficient people. That, or I'm far better at playing then I think I am, and while that wouldn't exactly be a great feat (I'm just barely above average on a good day), I don't think it's all that likely for the most part.
Though, I'd like to apologize for being a bit more venomous and snarky then I probably should have. One of those days. :|
Only two or three Mastermind secondaries (I know Storm does for a fact, as does Forcefields; And I suspect that Traps does at least a little) and one primary (Robotics - Ninjas, Thugs, and Necromancy are far better behaved, and Mercenaries only competes with the Commando in the equation) cause any significant knockback at all, and in the primary, it's almost always a 'chance of' rather then a guarantee of it going off (I seriously wish I could control the KB on some of the energy blasts. You have no idea).
I've been on quite a number of mixed teams, and played Scrapper for a team where I was the only melee-person around besides the tank, with an FF/Nrg defender and an Nrg/Nrg blaster (Man, you think Masterminds are vicious about KB? You have no idea), and while I can sympathize... It never stopped me from doing my job, and never seemed to bother the tankers that much either. When you're presented with these kinds of situations, the only thing you can really do is ask politely and try to adapt. If you can't fire off any significant AoE damage... do what you can anyway, and try to set yourself up better for it (personally love setting up Golden Dragonfly for a three-target smash, only to find half my cluster just got blasted halfway across the map :| ).
It happens. C'est la vie.
EDIT: Stupid broken tag. I WILL DESTROY YOU.
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Well, I'm pretty much done with this thread since NO ONE seems to understand why almost the entire group getting scattered out of AoE range is a problem.
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Preach it, brother! I have a Fire/Rad corrupter. By the time I land a Enervating Field and hit Aim most of the mobs are scattered all around the room.
Note: It isn't always knockback that causes it either. The mere fact that some of the pets stop and make ranged attacks and some rush in to h2h scatters the pod. as well. A skilled MM could eliminate that with pet_goto before a pet_attack, but that is lost on many of MMs I group with.
If you play with someone that actually is very good at contolling a MM, it's not that bad, but I get where the OP is coming from. I persoanlly never invite MMs when making team cause I just don't enjoy teaming with them. I don't really get the point of posting about your hatred of them though, other than to stir up emotions and start arguments. Just don't team with them in game...problem solved.
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Well, I'm pretty much done with this thread since NO ONE seems to understand why almost the entire group getting scattered out of AoE range is a problem (that's not an exaggeration at all, literally every minion except two or three goes flying and runs away). Thanks for the responses, but I'm gonna let this thread die or become a joke thread like most on these forums. >_>
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No, you're just exaggerating that a few bots can knockback entire mob by itself. Which is highly impossible to say the least.
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I'm sorry, but you don't play redside very often. Since when do brutes NOT herd?
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For the last 4 years? On most teams, herding makes missions take LONGER anyways. A real Brute tears through spawns so fast that gathering them up is a time waster.
Herding pretty much died when the agro cap of 17 was implemented. Was this before CoV came out?
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So I'm supposed to just deal with missions taking 20 minutes longer than usual? Ok then.
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Ummm... play with people who know how to play??
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Look, don't bother to hide it, just write "lrn2playnub" and be an open, honest, jerk. 
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So I'm supposed to just deal with missions taking 20 minutes longer than usual? Ok then.
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Ummm... play with people who know how to play??
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Look, don't bother to hide it, just write "lrn2playnub" and be an open, honest, jerk.
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That's no fun. :/ I like pretending I'm not on occasion.
...crud, my inner voice became an outer voice, didn't it?
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I'm sorry, but you don't play redside very often. Since when do brutes NOT herd?
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For the last 4 years? On most teams, herding makes missions take LONGER anyways. A real Brute tears through spawns so fast that gathering them up is a time waster.
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Yeah... I only herd when I'm solo, and want to AoE more than one spawn at once. And that usually takes just as long as killing them all individually would have, but makes me feel like freaking Herculese on PcP, so it's worth the effort.
@Eisenzahn
GW2 - Melchior.2135
AIM - Euroclydon23
Email - scorpany@yahoo.com or <sameasmyAIM>@aol.com (for the sheer novelty of an almost 20 year old email address that hasn't been overwhelmed by spambots yet)
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Note: It isn't always knockback that causes it either. The mere fact that some of the pets stop and make ranged attacks and some rush in to h2h scatters the pod. as well. A skilled MM could eliminate that with pet_goto before a pet_attack, but that is lost on many of MMs I group with.
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This type of behavior is much less common than it used to be. I rarely have worry about keeping my henchmen on a leash. In fact, even recently, changes were done to ensure that pets behaved as they should. For the bots/ mastermind, it is far less likely to see a probot or drone run off to brawl something than it was even a year ago. In any case, I think you lost your credibility with masterminds already. In fact your suggestion of not using the drones is the worst solution for reducing knockback. The drones, are likely three or more levels below, reducing the effectiveness of knockback.
To the OP:
I have a suspicion the scatter you are seeing is related to the burn patch, not knockback. There is a workaround, but I don't think any of us will suggest it as it severely gimps another player (as well as annoys them). The other possibility is that the mastermind is several levels above the team and the mission. This can increase the knockback. Or the mastermind could have slotted for knockback (very unlikely)
In any case, you were hoping to find a lot of people agreeing with you, which you won't find. There are a myriad of players here, each with different playstyles. Furthermore, not everyone plays a brute and is well acquainted with the fury minigame. Some teams do indeed cripple fury, but those same teams are probably the safer and faster teams out there.
In any case, coming to a public forum seeking agreement is a bad idea.
Well if you would just follow your instructions like all the other minions everything would work. After all, your just another pawn in the masterminds group.
There are times that I really believe that CoV was designed to cause friction between some of the ATs to preserve the mindset that you are evil and only working with these others to further your own plans.
Or to put it another way, balance by conflict.
Calash has it in a nutshell:
you're not supposed to like who you team with villain side, just tolerate them long enough until you achieve your goals, then kiss them off.
Pish to you Brutus, I am done with thee, for now!!!
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
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There are times that I really believe that CoV was designed to cause friction between some of the ATs to preserve the mindset that you are evil and only working with these others to further your own plans.
Or to put it another way, balance by conflict.
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I have thought this as well, going so far as to have it as a basic assumption that the initial development was thinking along these lines.
Hero ATs fit their niches, and thus have a high level of synergy when teamed. The cost of this is that some find it either difficult or slow to solo.
Villain ATs tend to solo well across the board, but their are some inherent conflicts when teamed which are fueled by their inherent powers. The Brute's Fury mechanic encourages reckless speed on one end while stalker's generally want more time to set up and approach a new spawn. Dom's ending up somewhere in the middle, Mastermind's there as well as they are sometimes limited by the speed of their minions.
Some of the game changes and buffs have altered this original pattern (the stalker buffs being a prime example). But I clearly remember that the first few issues after CoV opened, the big teams were all Brutes and Corruptors. The general attitude being that any other AT just slowed down the team.
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In any case, I think you lost your credibility with masterminds already. In fact your suggestion of not using the drones is the worst solution for reducing knockback. The drones, are likely three or more levels below, reducing the effectiveness of knockback.
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I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that a Robot MM shouldn't summon his bots because they might do knockback. I'm saying that MMs shouldn't summon their first tier pets in large groups because they get in the way of the other players. I should have added out that this advice really only applies in cramped quarter (like the old style cave maps). In outdoor zones or office buildings the extra pets don't really get in the way.
Yes, I did misunderstand you then.
What I wouldn't give to have the bots have a smaller footprint.
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Seriously, you think most people who play this game even KNOW what keybinds and stuff are? I'm not disputing the fact that they are helpful and should be used, but I guarantee a majority of MM players aren't up to learning it and implementing it into the game. You have to be realistic and not expect everyone to play the way you want them to (you see what I did there?).
And please explain how a brute needs to adapt to their mob being scattered across the whole map.
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Ah. So you much prefer to just hypocritically rant, then actually engage in a serious discussion on the matter. Fair enough, then, I suppose.
I'll busy myself with more productive discussions (or not - I am rather prone to trolling).
Continue baselessly insulting people, though.