I honestly think things have improved somewhat since the Mito exploit was fixed (or at least I'm pretty sure it's been fixed...). Boss farms at least involve some combat (and risk), and they're generally asking for mostly higher level characters, at least from the broadcasts I've seen while not spending much time in AE-heavy zones.
My personal gripe is still that the MA doesn't promote trying story arcs that have largely gone un-played. The random button is buried on the third (last) layer of search options for some silly reason, and I'd love for it to come with some kind of incentive (like a slight ticket earning increase) to be trying random MA arcs, as you're likely to not be earning at top levels anyway.
Ticket farm abuse via a minor ticket earning increase isn't much of a concern due to ticket caps.
Please, Devs, find a way to make the MA based on exploring new content, and maybe finding some great gems! People doing reviews help, but unless more players get out there and play people's actual story arcs, the potential of the MA is really being missed.
I guess I've just not run into many "AE babies." Of course, I tend to stick with my friends, but, since I play so much, I also get on a lot of PuG's. I've enjoyed AE immensely. While a lot of the content is terrible (I quit those arcs as soon as I realize how bad it is,) much of it is fantastic. I love going against new critters with their unusual powers that provide a huge challenge. Many of the players provide funny, challenging, clever, etc. arcs that are more fun than the ones in regular arcs. I enjoy them immensely. I've been through 95% of the content, so having AE available has kept me interested in the game along with the many friends I've made here. Yes, there will be some terrible PL'd players because of AE, but then there were terrible PL'd players before AE.
<QR>
Yes, AE has made bad players. Unfortunately.
I've taken this pseudo-RP attitude towards high level toons with players that don't know how play them:
Not every comic or movie character with awesome power starts out as a weakling (akin to level 1). Some start with whole arrays of abilities and the power to move planets from day 1...and they don't have a frickin' clue how to use them. It's certainly part of the genre, and some of the fun of such characters is watching them learn to deal with the awesome powers they already have without blowing up the city or getting their friends killed in the process.
I know this isn't a comic or movie, and that inexperienced players can be an irritation, but for the time being, they're here to stay - might as well come up with a way to not get too uptight about it.
Frankly, I think it's about time that CoH developed an extensive endgame that requires experience and good knowledge of your powers. Again, it's in genre. Superman and Batman pretty much stay at their same high level of power for years and always have plenty to do.
One of the touted charms of CoH was that 'this game is about the journey, not the destination'. Well, when the journey only takes a week now, what will become of it all? An endgame, with cool stuff that only *experienced* highlevels can do, is needed, IMO. Maybe Going Rogue will provide it.
It is not the obligation of experienced players to put themselves in the shoes of the new kids and try and show them what playing can be like.
But it's a nice thing to do.
Just remember the difference between "talking at people" and "Talking with people".
Some of them are unteachable [or vastly not worth the effort] but most can be taught.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
One of the touted charms of CoH was that 'this game is about the journey, not the destination'. Well, when the journey only takes a week now, what will become of it all? An endgame, with cool stuff that only *experienced* highlevels can do, is needed, IMO. Maybe Going Rogue will provide it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe. But there's two things the Devs have to watch out for regarding high level content:
1) no matter what, someday it'll get stale;
2) it has to balance being rewarding and not draining the low level player base such that it provides even more incentive for players to PL to 50 just to play the "cool" content.
Not easy to fix these things, and I have no solutions. Just things to watch out for.
I'm actually hoping that Going Rogue will provide more content across the spectrum, considering it's an entire expansion pack.
Bad players make bad players. High level characters who powerlevelled in various ways have been with us always.
A competent player will be competent. An incompetent one...well, you get the idea.
Let me ask you about the unskilled players you met. Were they out playing outside AE? They were asking questions at 40+ that you felt a player with a high level character should know the answer to. Would the same question at level 10, for example, be as irritating? If players zoomed to 10 in Sewers, found a way to PI, and PLd in PvE there, with the same questions, would it still be a problem?
My point being, if the players are out and about in the workd outside AE, and now they are asking the questions they might have asked at a lower level before AE, isn't it still worthwhile that they ARE out in the larger game?
A few weeks ago a mid-20s player was having trouble understanding the Ouroboros portal (trying to get from Atlas to IP for a respec).
Several team members started unloading on him for being an "AE baby." Why, because he didn't go to Faultline and do the Doc Delilah missions when they thought he should have? Or that he didn't (at lvl 24 or so) have the zones on the Green line memorized, or know the quickest way from Atlas to IP?
I had a number of 40+ heroes when Ourboros was introduced, outlevelling the lower level missions that gain admission to Ouroboros. Until someone showed me where the dingus on top of the archway is, had no idea I could easily get the Secret just by going through an open portal.
Someone asks a question, why not answer it, or mention the forums, or paragonwiki?
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
Bad players have found AE.
<QR> I feel they should have packaged the Architect Edition better. It doesn't mention the regular game at all. I'd bet that there's a portion of people trying the game out who don't even KNOW there's more to it than AE, simply because it's not on the box.
You know... there is something we can do about this. I used to do this some outside before MA. If I had a level 50 mission in a lowbie zone, I'd pick up someone as an SK and take them on a rollercoaster ride through a high level mission run by an uber scrapper. If they hadn't seen that before, they often thanked me and said that was cool as heck (and they also liked the fast xp of course).
Getting people out of AP might be difficult, but MA itself might solve that problem. There are hundreds of real arcs in MA itself. Running through those with an SK would be both enjoyable and introduce new players to what the game really is about.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
I think i16 is going to go a long way in fixing the problem with new people getting sucked into PL groups. Once the farmers can adjust difficulty however they want we should be seeing less level 30+ players that don't even know what half their skills do.
[ QUOTE ]
I think AE can be useful, a learning tool
AE is a plague imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, ok. That makes sense.
Boy oh boy do I have a treat for you all ...
I was in PI on my lvl 50 Fire/Kin taking out some Rikti Monkies for the Zoo Keeper badge when I got a random tell asking me "Have any room on team for a lvl 49 blaster?"
I was in a pretty good mood and the tell was actually in english as opposed to that damn "1337 5p34k" junk, so I said "Sure 
" and invited him.
So he joins the team and I say that I'm in PI hunting monkies for the badge. I tell him to make his way over to PI and take out some with me. He replies with "Okay."
So I'm sitting on the docks waiting for him to zone.
Five minutes pass.
Ten minutes pass.
I start to get a tick in my neck and I see he hasn't moved from Atlas, so I decided to ask him if he was coming or not. He replies with, "The mission won't let me in."
O.o
Thinking it was an error in reading, I tell him that I'm in Peregrine Island, not Atlas Park.
Once again he aknowledges and says he's on his way.
Another 10 minutes passes and he still hasn't budged from Atlas. I assume he's AFK or helping a friend or whatever so I ask him again, "Hey, are you coming?"
He then proceeds to go off at me saying that he can't enter the mission and that he'd been trying the entire time. I explain once again that I was in Peregrine Island, not Atlas Park. More of his clueless banter and me trying to explain to him. He doesn't listen so I just tell him good luck and quit team.
I thought it was over.
Wrong.
He abused me via tell for the next 20 minutes calling me a noob and many other racial and insulting names.
If thats not a perfect example of someone who isn't willing to learn, then strap a crayon to my head, dress me in drag and call me Rayne's thrustpuppet.
[ QUOTE ]
If thats not a perfect example of someone who isn't willing to learn, then strap a crayon to my head, dress me in drag and call me Rayne's thrustpuppet.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I love you.
[ QUOTE ]
He abused me via tell for the next 20 minutes calling me a noob and many other racial and insulting names.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me you petitioned his butt. We don't need pathetic losers that throw around racial slurs or any other insults in this game. Jerks like that deserve an introduction to the Ban stick.
[ QUOTE ]
If thats not a perfect example of someone who isn't willing to learn
[/ QUOTE ]
AE is to blame that he isn't familiar with PI, however AE isn't to blame if the other player couldn't follow simple directions.
@SunGryphon:
We can have a wedding in Oro just like Manti and Psyche did!
We'll write our own vows, simple ceremony, people will dance.
BaB's can officiate.
@Forbin_Project:
I petitioned him yeah, but I was in AP a few days later on a different toon recruiting for my SG and still saw him around.
Oh well.
/em shrug
@Adult_Swim:
True, but theres many other "Easy Bake 50's" floating around thinking they can boss anyone around just because they hit 50 the fastest.
I actually saw a few people in the AE building bragging about how quickly they got to 50.
I was about to say that AE doesn't make bad players, and that they make themselves, but I changed my mind. Take a new player who's never played before. He creates a character and gets a choice of which zone to start in. What's the first one listed? Atlas Park. What do they see upon entering AP? Broadcasts to join teams. Joining a team is only natural in an MMO. So they join, figure out that they're supposed to go into that big building, and just do what comes naturally. A few hours later, they're in their 30's or 40's, don't know what an enhancement, has never seen another zone, don't know what the villain groups are like..... they're a bad player. Technically, they're not bad themselves, they're just lacking knowledge. But it ultimately doesn't matter as you invite them to your team and find out that you have someone who has no idea at all what to do.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
That shows a problem with farmers inviting new players to pad their missions, not necessarily a problem with AE. We'll see how things work out once i16 comes out.
[ QUOTE ]
I was about to say that AE doesn't make bad players, and that they make themselves, but I changed my mind. Take a new player who's never played before. He creates a character and gets a choice of which zone to start in. What's the first one listed? Atlas Park. What do they see upon entering AP? Broadcasts to join teams. Joining a team is only natural in an MMO. So they join, figure out that they're supposed to go into that big building, and just do what comes naturally. A few hours later, they're in their 30's or 40's, don't know what an enhancement, has never seen another zone, don't know what the villain groups are like..... they're a bad player. Technically, they're not bad themselves, they're just lacking knowledge. But it ultimately doesn't matter as you invite them to your team and find out that you have someone who has no idea at all what to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was going to compose a response to this thread, but the quoted post says what I would have, only it does it better.
Support the Mentor Project - http://tinyurl.com/citymentorproject
[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
As others have pointed out, PLed players without a clue about how to actually play their characters have always been with us. Ive seen the gamut from the level 50 tank who I had to show how to tank while playing my controller since all he had done was door-sit Drek farms, to the pair of fire/kin controllers who didnt listen when I told them to back away from then get behind Dominatrix so she wouldnt hold them (they stayed held for the majority of the fight), to the recent pack of AE assembly line PL products who dont know how to get to Steel Canyon.
Some are teachable, others trainable, others fall under the Horse? Meet water, drinking is optional axiom. Some will thank you for trying to help them, others will pitch a fit.
Are there more of them now than in the past? Based on my personal experience since AE became part of the game, which by no means should be taken as any sort of authoritative or valid representation of the rest of the CoH population, is that there are more of these disasters in progress running around the streets of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles.
When I16 does land, it may be that some of the AE buildings will serve as quiet little preserves for the clueless PLed. Hopefully they will be housed, fed, and generally be kept from the rest of the player population until such time as the ease of AE farm leveling becomes a boring routine, when the shininess of ticket rolls lose their luster, and they either move on to some other game or actually take a little time to learn how to play their characters. Then and only then can they be slowly introduced into the larger CoH community without harm.
Until that rarified day, which may only exist in the small section of my mind reserved for Utopian delusions of what may be, I will continue to treat the clueless as I always have: Kicking them from team when they dont listen or whine excessively, mock them for not being able to read a search comment, train them when I have no other choice or am feeling generous, and basically avoiding them the rest of the time. Just remember this, the ignore button is our friend and so is the kick button. Use them wisely.
This PSA from Night Mission Enterprises: Dont call us, we wont call you.
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I've been told that sometimes my lucidity is frightening.
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Your logic is no match for concentrated stupid. - Organica
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Current MAs:
Stop the catgirl rampage! #66361
no, bad players make bad players, its not like there weren't bad players before AE, although there are more now that leveling is a lot faster, 1-50 on AE should be more than enough for a player to get decent at least and not be a more of a hindrance than help to team with his build though, its been a while that I've seen a Mastermind screw up the team so I guess its not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be.
This just in from NW11 (Hero News at 11)
Lawful [NPC]s have started to converge on Architect Entertainment buildings throughout Paragon City... You can see the angst and anger, you can see them hurt with ridden shame...
Signs being carried... LOCK THE DOORS and THROW AWAY THE KEYS... It's All a Nemesis Plot & Crey Labs EXPLOITS BILLIONS from salvage hunters at Wentworths.
The story continues!... Ha!
All in good fun, all in just good ol' fun!
[ QUOTE ]
There's been bad players since before AE
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed whole heartily...but don't you think there have been many more since the launch of AE?
Goodbye, City of Heroes...I'll miss you.
On Justice as @Amperrie (well, for a little while longer...)
Try to look at this as an opportunity to teach and bring these players into the fold. Explain the game (zones, enhancements, powers, tactics, mobs, missions) and show them how much fun it can be. Make new friends.
Show them why they should stay. AE powerleveling isn't a reason to renew. The rest of the game and the people who play it is.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Hi Adult_Swim.
[ QUOTE ]
What are these players doing that you can't explain to them how to improve?
[/ QUOTE ]
In all my time here I have put one person on (in-game)ignore.
I meet this young blaster while I was farming COT's in FF along the river for SO's.
He asked for an invite so I sent it.... come to find out he was only lvl 6. To his credit he made to FF all by himself.
I explained that I was herding COT's and to wait until I had them set. He says "ok".
So as I am lining up my next group.... he jumps in a spawn and dies.
I tp him out and ask him why he did that.... "oh.. I thought you where ready".
Rinse and repeat over the next 5-10 spawns.
Later that week he asks to get invited to the team I am on. I invite him and sk him. Spend time explaining he needs to wait on the tank...... A bit of team chat about tactics.... and before we are done talking, he in the middle of the 8 person spawn.... dead.
Tp him out.... explain to the team he is new and I will handle it.
Explain again...... dead. and again..... dead. and again...... dead.
This isn't going well.
Fast forward to about a month after we first met..... and I finally put the poor kid on ignore. He was Un-teachable.
I don't ever spend that much time trying to teach anyone how to play anymore.... For me, it's pretty much, just let the dogs run and have "their" fun.
I can/will adjust to the "wild" dogs.
BC