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Seriously, did you just seriously used the word anathema?. Honestly Sorciere who are you trying to impress with a word commonly used in the 1500's. Was loathe not enough? or was "hate" too simple?
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Methinks thou art a caitiff knave; aroint thee.
Man, it's been too long since I've been properly arointed.
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If I have to start regularly Googling words from your posts to understand them I may have to put you on ignore.
Your using caitiff incorrectly....see what happens when we try to be funny...
No man is so much a fool as not to have wit enough sometimes to be a knave; nor any so cunning a knave as not to have the weakness sometimes to play the fool.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Yeah we all have worked with Devs , we all have developed games, and we all don't have a lick a proof...
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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You may be interested to learn that the lead class designer of WoW recently mentioned that he found the downtime for warriors to be a problem (most WoW classes have abilities to manage and reduce downtime, such as Spirit Tap for priests, and many classes do not have significant downtime at all if they play smart, such as hunters, death knights, or rogues). You may also be interested to learn, for example, that retribution paladin mana recovery in WotLK was specifically calibrated so that unless they used wasteful abilities or bit off more than they could chew, their mana recovery was meant to match their normal attack chains (and did).
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Lets see some actual statements from the lead designers. Proof, evidence, something that doesn't make me think that you just pulled that out of your smock. But if indeed this was the released statement, their not going to change the downtime for Warriors when mitigation in the form of bandages exist. I.e. the catch a breath in this game.
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You will find it in the official warrior Q&A (search for "downtime" in the post). Given his followup post (search for "health potions"), I think he's aware of bandages and health potions and considers them inadequate.
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Useit.com is the website of Jacob Nielsen, one of the pioneers of usability research. It is simply a commonly cited online resource. If you wish, I can probably find you peer-reviewed papers that cover the same topic.
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Let it be known that just because you can "google it" does not make said subject accurate or trustworthy.
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I'm not sure what the context is here, since I hadn't googled anything in the quoted paragraph. Are you just trying to pick a fight?
Seriously? Sorciere did provide proof. Don't like it or the source? Get some proof against it, or find your own proof. In short: put up or shut up.
I don't even agree with their main topic, but you've got me seriously considering jumping to their side just to argue against you.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Another plan would be to rebalance offense sets, lowering Endurance on the lower level attacks, and increasing them on the higher level attacks.
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Seriously, did you just seriously used the word anathema?. Honestly Sorciere who are you trying to impress with a word commonly used in the 1500's. Was loathe not enough? or was "hate" too simple?
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Methinks thou art a caitiff knave; aroint thee.
Man, it's been too long since I've been properly arointed.
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Dis maed me lol.
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I don't even agree with their main topic, but you've got me seriously considering jumping to their side just to argue against you.
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I'd prefer reasoned disagreement, actually. 
They also say in the very same Q and A that Warrior Dps is fine....I've played WoW for three years, I can assure you it is not. Fixing warriors "is on the horizon". Everything wrong with the class is addressed but never fixed. As several posters have pointed out, it just seems like softball questions to which we already know the answers to.
In fact you can quote me Sorc, I'm betting in the next two years Warriors will be the same, and the devs so called "wishes" will be a dream of something we all wanted but never recieved.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Relax kiddo, go to another board topic or go play the game. Enough proof is given toward my opinion by hundreds of players in said Q&A.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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Relax kiddo, go to another board topic or go play the game. Enough proof is given toward my opinion by hundreds of players in said Q&A.
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What opinion are you trying to argue for now? The Warrior DPS, or the downtime reductions that the Devs were talking about (you know, the point of this thread)?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Both in said case. And the overall point that there will always be downtime, no matter what game you play, downtime will always be part fo the "difficulty'. Don't worry I won't digress for your sake. The proverbial need to fill your ego balloon will always be here
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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So whether people should or shouldn't be intuitively rationing their blue bar is immaterial ... a good portion aren't and they are being frustrated (we've all seen these posts and in-game comments). Eventually that frustration turns into cancelled game accounts or free trials that are never realized as subscriptions.
In other words, frustrating the customer is costing CoH money. To what extent? I wouldn't know. But it doesn't take a marketing genius to see the same complaint come up time and again and imagine that its not ingratiating itself among those who complain .... those being your paying customers.
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Maybe we don't want those who can't handle it on the team to begin with?
Really, it's not that hard.
Even more so on /WP for Tankers.
I know Herc likes to grab Stamina at 20 on her/his tanks, but it's really not needed.
If others can make do with Stamina at 20, a WP/ tanker can make do with a power that's better than Stamina at lvl 12.
Not saying I wouldn't grab Stamina still. I love having an endless blue bar, but it's not something I strive to get at lvl 20 on a WP/ tanker (30-35 usually, depending on the build...sometimes earlier...but never rushed to get it).
Blue skittles, using rest when needed, all those support classes with +END powers...the early game really isn't that hard or take that long.
5-6 hours lvl 1-21 with the right team, doing non AE missions...sewer -> Posi -> Synapse -> LVL 21!!! DING DING DING!
Mind you, that's the right team. :/ heh Not always easy to get. So you either plan for it, or hope you get lucky
Still, it's like people are afraid to use REST or Blue skittles in the early game, when I read these type of threads.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Your using caitiff incorrectly....see what happens when we try to be funny...
No man is so much a fool as not to have wit enough sometimes to be a knave; nor any so cunning a knave as not to have the weakness sometimes to play the fool.
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What an interesting thread.
For the sake of clarity, Heraclea's use of caitiff is entirely appropriate. As an adjective, the word caitiff means 'base' or 'despicable'. I.e., despicable knave.
What did you think it meant?
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
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How many times do we see new Tankers (and new players) come up here and say something along the lines of "I'm trying a Tanker out and I'm always running out of endurance. Does it get any better?"
This has been an age old problem since the early days of beta. How many subscribing customers have to get frustrated and lose the love for the game before this issue is addressed.
Specifically the L1-20 portion of levelling. This applies to almost all ATs hero and villain side, but especially to Tankers who run dry *really* quickly.
Suggested Fixed: Do away with TOs and DOs and make SOs available at L1. This would alleviate much of the frustration and tedium that is the current mode of play in the L1-20 game (imo).
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I sign.
Or/and : remove requirements for Stamina, and make it available at level 6.
I'm pretty good with end management on scrappers/blasters/controllers. My defenders have no issues so long as somebody is getting hurt.
My tankers really have to watch their end. If the mobs only have 1 damage type, I can reduce the toggles, which helps, but my impression continues to be that my tankers are more of a struggle end-wise.
Another lowbie tank issue, I think, is that when GDN/ED came out, DEF and RES enhancements were reduced in effectiveness, and the powers they enhance were reduced as well. As a result, slotting DEF / RES low has little discernable effect. Current I slot end reduc, or End/DEF IOs, but I really think they need to fix low end enhancements so new players can notice more of an effect. The SO at L1 suggestion would fit.
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Another plan would be to rebalance offense sets, lowering Endurance on the lower level attacks, and increasing them on the higher level attacks.
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True but that would require so much more work on the devs part then my suggestion, not to mention the possibility (probability really) of introducing unintentional bugs that would unbalance the game severely.
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Yeah we all have worked with Devs , we all have developed games, and we all don't have a lick a proof...
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If you look on the inside of the cover of your original copy of Dark Age of Camelot, you will see my name in the credits:
Alex "Kruunch" Lippe
Also, most of the old timers on these boards know of my involvement with Geko (along with the other old time Tankers) in getting the original SS changes implemented.
As for WoW and EQ, you'll have to take my word for it.
Again, perhaps the simplest suggestion would be to reduce the recharge of Rest to thirty seconds. That would get rid of much of the pain in the lower levels.
I know that the predictable bunch will show up and say, "IF YOU DID THAT OMG REST WOULD BE OVERPOWERED!".
Yea, I augur that some will hypothesize that Rest with recharge of one half a minute would be too mighty to be countenanced. If thou thinkest so, in sooth the angels laugh behind thy back.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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First off, I am not saying that the average customer must go screw. I certainly did not want to give off that vibe, nor was it my attention. My apologies if that was the case.
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I was exaggerating your points for emphasis ... I know you weren't directly implying "screw the customer". However by the same token, it's not hard to imagine the new customer (or potential new customer in the case of free trials) feeling like the game (and by proxy, its publishers/developers) is saying in effect "screw the customer" when it has been released for 5+ years and still has some very basic flaws.
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Most of my characters do have Stamina, in order to keep up or because they are endurance pigs. There are a couple that don't, or that probably don't need it since they have other tools at their disposal. I am not saying that Stamina isn't a great power, nor that it doesn't make the game a lot faster.
But I guess here is my point: if Stamina (the power) was removed from the game (or better yet, had never been put in), would people adjust to the new restrictions? I'm betting that they would. Stamina merely allows you to limit a certain restriction, sometimes to the point where it is no longer the primary restriction on your character's speed. At any point where that was put into the game, I would expect players to go for it.
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Well if Stamina never existed, do you think CoH would be enjoying less, same or more customers right now?
But before we get off on a further tangent, keep in mind that my changes would only effect the pre-Stamina levels for the most part (L20 and L21 being the only overlap).
In case we're losing track of my original suggestion to alleviate low level endurance issues (and other low level issues for that matter) is was to change TOs and DOs to SO enhancement levels while keeping the current pricing and availability the same for those level ranges (L1-20).
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People tend to take Stamina now. I am not going to argue that point (I am on your side with saying that I would bet a majority of players take it). With it in the game, Endurance becomes much less of a concern, to the point where people would tend to rate recharge or damage as their next slowing point for going at the speed they want. If a power was put into the game that was liek Hasten, but was passive, I'm betting that people would have the same complaints about that as they do about Stamina now - namely, that the game really doesn't get going until they get that power. And if that was in, and another passive power was put in that raised your damage by 100%, I'm betting that people would say that the game really doesn't get moving until you have that too.
People will always complain about what is limiting them the most. But there will ALWAYS be something limiting them the most. And they will always complain about that the most, and also try to mitigate it the most. It's pretty much human nature. I'm certainly not arguing with your right to complain about Endurance or the need for Stamina. I just feel that if Endurance was fixde to your satisfaction, that people would just complain about something else limiting them instead, and we'd be back here again, talking about that. It would really never end, because as soon as the Devs addressed one 'issue', there would be another that people were asking to be removed.
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We've all been frustrated by games in the past and we've all made our share of complaints ... sometimes that's led us to not bother with a game any more. Is it unreasonable to think that might be happening here in enough numbers to warrant this as a real issue as opposed to a run of the mill, uneducated complaint?
And the sad truth (of the world) is that the squakey wheel gets the grease. Consider how different this game would if no one had ever complained about any of the issues that have been changed since release. Would it be a better or worse game do you think?
What I'm proposing doesn't effect the higher level game, and I'm of the opinion that post Stamina levels are fine with respect to endurance usage. We have IOs to further our goals should they more then what regular Stamina can accomodate, and we have to work towards those goals to achieve them. This provides a sense of worth to the game and time spent in it and I believe that that is good for the game.
And to Cloud's earlier point, I think adjusting TOs and DOs to SO levels would further encourage the player base to pay more attention earlier to character builds, as they would then have tools to practically effect those builds earlier. It's also one of the reasons I don't like the Endurance buff that would fade at L20 suggestion ... it's a freebie with no thought on the players part as to what the rest of the game will be like with respect to their builds.
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Again, perhaps the simplest suggestion would be to reduce the recharge of Rest to thirty seconds. That would get rid of much of the pain in the lower levels.
I know that the predictable bunch will show up and say, "IF YOU DID THAT OMG REST WOULD BE OVERPOWERED!".
Yea, I augur that some will hypothesize that Rest with recharge of one half a minute would be too mighty to be countenanced. If thou thinkest so, in sooth the angels laugh behind thy back.
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Hmmmm ... rest every 30 seconds would work ... but I don't think it has the same advantages of turning TOs and DOs to SOs. Not only would the enhancement change get lower level characters more involved with building earlier, but would also allow players to correct other annoying aspects of the early game such as accuracy (which the current buff doesn't do a good enough job of imo), damage and recharge.
I don't feel that this would make lower level toons flatlined in progression as Cloud projects, as the toon still hasn't received a majority of the more interesting powers of its respective build yet ... it would be just alleviating those beginning powers (at the players discretion) while at the same time, specifically targeting the casual player who spends more time in those levels, which happens to be CoH's defacto demographic (CoH being considered a casual friendly game).
P.S. - I'm going to ask my wife to start using the word "aroint" from now on. I have no clue what it means and don't want to spoil it so shhhhhh, 
Which leads me back to my suggestion of another Safeguard/Mayhem. It's not a freebie. You'd know what you're going for to get the +rec, just like most new players are directed to get the temp travel powers asap via safeguard/mayhems. It adds a minor amount of content and I suspect would be incredibly easy to set up with minimal investment of time and resources. (although I could be wrong about that) If not a safeguard/mayhem, a short low end arc that gives the +rec as a temp power upon completion. That would certainly get folks out of the MA for a smidgen of time. On top of that, if you don't feel you need the temp power you can skip the mission(s) completely.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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That's fine except the player in question would have to be aware of having to go for it and complete it.
Additionally, it still does nothing for the general feel of the game going forward, other then to introduce the player to temp powers (which isn't bad mind you, but I think they would get more out of being introduced to "real" enhancements earlier).
Also it would be easier to make my changes, unless you're proposing switching one of the earliest temp powers which happen to be travel powers which many vet players have come to rely on. So you kind of derail that availibility (another common complaint) for the +recovery.
I made a suggestion in the suggestion thread similar to this one a few weeks back. I agree, lower level endurance management is more frustrating than fun, not to mention the aweful accuracy we have, meaning, we just wasted a bunch of endurance on a miss.
Please devs, listen to this man. He speaks great wisdom.
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
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Here we go again Sorciere, not playing the game again, stuck on these boards...I love the dichotomy....(big word of the day).
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You may be interested to learn that the lead class designer of WoW recently mentioned that he found the downtime for warriors to be a problem (most WoW classes have abilities to manage and reduce downtime, such as Spirit Tap for priests, and many classes do not have significant downtime at all if they play smart, such as hunters, death knights, or rogues). You may also be interested to learn, for example, that retribution paladin mana recovery in WotLK was specifically calibrated so that unless they used wasteful abilities or bit off more than they could chew, their mana recovery was meant to match their normal attack chains (and did).
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Lets see some actual statements from the lead designers. Proof, evidence, something that doesn't make me think that you just pulled that out of your smock. But if indeed this was the released statement, their not going to change the downtime for Warriors when mitigation in the form of bandages exist. I.e. the catch a breath in this game.
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Useit.com is the website of Jacob Nielsen, one of the pioneers of usability research. It is simply a commonly cited online resource. If you wish, I can probably find you peer-reviewed papers that cover the same topic.
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Let it be known that just because you can "google it" does not make said subject accurate or trustworthy.
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I have a dev credit for Dark Age of Camelot and have worked with the devs (and lead devs at times) for WoW, CoH and EQ. In each of those games, reducing downtime while maintaining the pace of the game was one of the paramount concerns.
Having said that, it has been a downward trend to this date. EQ introduced horrific downtimes (imagine waiting 15 minutes for your group to heal and med (end) up or taking over an hour to buff a raid) and since EQ, each successive MMO that has come along has reduced its down time even more where possible.
Since CoH is 5 years old, one could say it's 5 years out of date with respect to downtime (specifically with regards to the L1-20 game). Many older MMOs have adjusted their downtime cycles downward including WoW. CoH did it with in essence with IOs but this still hasn't effected the L1-20 game which is the essence of this thread with respect to endurance woes.