I was thinking about the AE...
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-07-23 09:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
EPIC
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OOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!1!111111!!!1ONE!!!1!!!!!!
So you think I might be off base? :P
No, I just like saying doom. I am DOOM, the self-proclaimed 5th horseman of the Forumpacolypse.
Can't you see this is all part of a huge government plot, or have they gotten to you too?
<facefault>
It's not a plot, best I see it business o.@ Your playerbase isn't playing it the way you envisioned it, you'd want like..FIX that in a way they don't realize is fixing it. Until it's too late, then you use them as examples to others o.o;
Or is that too extreme?
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Or is that too extreme?
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Extreme is an understatement.
All Paragon Studios wants to do is keep as many players paying for a subscription to their game as long as possible. PLing characters to 50 in hours would seem to make players burn out much more quickly than if they had to play the game "as intended". That's why the Devs came down so harshly on AE farmers recently.
As long as you keep playing, they don't care how you play. The idea that they have a "vision" that goes beyond "keep people playing and paying for as long as possible" is ridiculous.
So no, the Devs aren't flagging your characters for later retributuion, and no, they aren't communicating with you through your fillings, and they aren't watching you from a closed-circuit video camera mounted in your closet.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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So no, the Devs aren't flagging your characters for later retributuion, and no, they aren't communicating with you through your fillings, and they aren't watching you from a closed-circuit video camera mounted in your closet.
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PROPOGANDA I SAY!
I know the camera is there... I just KNOW it...even if I can't see it. Damn Devs and their Klingon stealth technology! *shakes fist*
Not too extreme at all. In fact, not extreme enough.
Others might laugh at you ... including me ... but that doesn't mean you're wrong. It doesn't mean that you're paranoid. doesn't mean that you've been drinking or doing drugs to the point that they've fried your brain but good ....
And while it may mean all of those things, the truth remains the truth and the truth will set you free. Make no mistake though. Whether or not you're correct, you'll still owe the man your monthly fee, and when all is said and done that truly is what this conspiracy is all about.
Don't let the nay-sayers like P-Knight talk you down from the ledge. Common sense arguments only go so far when you've gone so far out on a limb to expose the only explanation that could possibly work in a truly impossible situation.
So stand tall, my friend. Or sit, if you prefer. But either way, keep your head up high and your eyes straight ahead. While this may make it easier for people to hit you from behind, it nevertheless will help you see those who are coming straight at you with naybobs of negatisim.
Nuff said.
And then some.
And then some more.
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P-Knight
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Ewww... that sounds DIRTY!
What if AE is a nemesis plot?
I mean, it's just perfect. All the new heroes, spending all their time inside of one building, perfectly convenient for a strategic strike when the time comes. That might not even be needed!
-Nemesis could be slowly reprogramming AE to brainwash us.
-Nemesis could be doing troop movements without anyone knowing.
-Nemesis could be watching and learning as various teams attempt to place themselves in the most difficult challenges, searching for weaknesses.
Now, in order for this to happen, Nemesis would need tools to lure people into AE and away from heroic and villainous deeds. The promise that whatever you do in AE still counts towards experience for your character, as well as a new false economic model (I mean, are tickets gold-backed?) was the perfect lure. The custom characters were just added incentive.
AE is a nemesis plot.
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Or is that too extreme?
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Extreme is an understatement.
All Paragon Studios wants to do is keep as many players paying for a subscription to their game as long as possible. PLing characters to 50 in hours would seem to make players burn out much more quickly than if they had to play the game "as intended". That's why the Devs came down so harshly on AE farmers recently.
As long as you keep playing, they don't care how you play. The idea that they have a "vision" that goes beyond "keep people playing and paying for as long as possible" is ridiculous.
So no, the Devs aren't flagging your characters for later retributuion, and no, they aren't communicating with you through your fillings, and they aren't watching you from a closed-circuit video camera mounted in your closet.
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I dunno, I don't buy that excuse of players burning out faster because they get PLed to 50. Maybe that's true for some people, but it can't be true for all people.
We don't ever hear about the players that never got near 50 but quit out of sheer boredom because of FedEx missions, and Kill 20 of these - Ok, now go kill another 20 of these missions, and running across another zone just to speak to someone who only sends you back to the guy that sent you to him in the first place missions, etc., etc. Just because we don't hear of those people doesn't mean they don't exist.
I think some people that get PLed to 50 on one character might be more inclined to try out a different AT and/or powersets. I think most of the people getting PLs are second or third accounts of old players. I think if players flock to a feature that allows their characters to be PLed the devs should look at the reasons behind it and do something about it. Maybe low level missions need to be cleaned up and streamlined like villain side. Maybe the low to mid levels need to be made more interesting so people want to play them.
And the reason I don't think the devs care how fast you reach 50 is because of all the changes to the game that have made leveling so much easier in general. XP changes, mission difficulty settings, combining inspirations, 2X XP weekends. If anything, players might be bored by how easy it's gotten in general.
You said it yourself MG, in the Isos thread, how fast this run is going to reach 50. We've had 14 play sessions and are up to level 44. 4 years ago how fast could you make it to 44? If people can play 3 hours a night for 3 weeks and get to 50, why is it so shocking that min/maxers can do it in AE in a day? Why is 3 weeks okay, but not one day?
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I dunno, I don't buy that excuse of players burning out faster because they get PLed to 50. Maybe that's true for some people, but it can't be true for all people.
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It doesn't need to be true of all... perhaps not even a majority. If 30% of new players quit after a few months because there's "no end game content", that's a lot of revenue down the drain.
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We don't ever hear about the players that never got near 50 but quit out of sheer boredom because of FedEx missions, and Kill 20 of these - Ok, now go kill another 20 of these missions, and running across another zone just to speak to someone who only sends you back to the guy that sent you to him in the first place missions, etc., etc. Just because we don't hear of those people doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Early game goes by so fast if they lose interest because of hunt quests then CoX wasn't going to keep them anyway.
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I think some people that get PLed to 50 on one character might be more inclined to try out a different AT and/or powersets. I think most of the people getting PLs are second or third accounts of old players. I think if players flock to a feature that allows their characters to be PLed the devs should look at the reasons behind it and do something about it. Maybe low level missions need to be cleaned up and streamlined like villain side. Maybe the low to mid levels need to be made more interesting so people want to play them.
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I'm sure most of the PLzors are long-time players, so the question is does closing the loophole with brutal discipline bother them enough to quit the game? I highly doubt we've lost as many players over Farmgate then we did when ED hit. Letting the situation go on was untenable from a new player perspective in the Devs' view.
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You said it yourself MG, in the Isos thread, how fast this run is going to reach 50. We've had 14 play sessions and are up to level 44. 4 years ago how fast could you make it to 44? If people can play 3 hours a night for 3 weeks and get to 50, why is it so shocking that min/maxers can do it in AE in a day? Why is 3 weeks okay, but not one day?
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Most Isos have been subscribing to the game for four years at least, and we keep going back to roll up a new character and go to 50. Would the group still be doing that if we got a 50 every Wednesday? Three weeks of dedicated play is a lot different than a day (or a few hours).
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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Or is that too extreme?
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Extreme is an understatement.
All Paragon Studios wants to do is keep as many players paying for a subscription to their game as long as possible. PLing characters to 50 in hours would seem to make players burn out much more quickly than if they had to play the game "as intended". That's why the Devs came down so harshly on AE farmers recently.
As long as you keep playing, they don't care how you play. The idea that they have a "vision" that goes beyond "keep people playing and paying for as long as possible" is ridiculous.
So no, the Devs aren't flagging your characters for later retributuion, and no, they aren't communicating with you through your fillings, and they aren't watching you from a closed-circuit video camera mounted in your closet.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I don't buy that excuse of players burning out faster because they get PLed to 50. Maybe that's true for some people, but it can't be true for all people.
We don't ever hear about the players that never got near 50 but quit out of sheer boredom because of FedEx missions, and Kill 20 of these - Ok, now go kill another 20 of these missions, and running across another zone just to speak to someone who only sends you back to the guy that sent you to him in the first place missions, etc., etc. Just because we don't hear of those people doesn't mean they don't exist.
I think some people that get PLed to 50 on one character might be more inclined to try out a different AT and/or powersets. I think most of the people getting PLs are second or third accounts of old players. I think if players flock to a feature that allows their characters to be PLed the devs should look at the reasons behind it and do something about it. Maybe low level missions need to be cleaned up and streamlined like villain side. Maybe the low to mid levels need to be made more interesting so people want to play them.
And the reason I don't think the devs care how fast you reach 50 is because of all the changes to the game that have made leveling so much easier in general. XP changes, mission difficulty settings, combining inspirations, 2X XP weekends. If anything, players might be bored by how easy it's gotten in general.
You said it yourself MG, in the Isos thread, how fast this run is going to reach 50. We've had 14 play sessions and are up to level 44. 4 years ago how fast could you make it to 44? If people can play 3 hours a night for 3 weeks and get to 50, why is it so shocking that min/maxers can do it in AE in a day? Why is 3 weeks okay, but not one day?
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Three weeks isn't ok either. It is bad for the game, basically. It leads to very fast boredom and loss of subscriptions.
Did somebody forget to wear their tinfoil hat..?
Just poking fun at ya. I acctually wouldn't be suprised if this is being tracked somehow, but what the Devs do with that information is totally up for grabs. No doubt there are still many more tweaks in the future for AE, the system is still very young and needs to be honed alot. But I doubt the Devs intend to go around nuking players in an AE Holocaust.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me! 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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PLing characters to 50 in hours would seem to make players burn out much more quickly than if they had to play the game "as intended". That's why the Devs came down so harshly on AE farmers recently.
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As long as you keep playing, they don't care how you play.
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These two statements do not compute.
Add in the fact that the greatest farming tool ever is about to be given to us with I-16, the first statement lacks merit even more.
The devs frown upon *exploits.* THAT'S why people were punished. They are apparently quite ambivalent toward farming in general.
EDIT: Side thought: If there were any truth to the "those that farm to 50 get burnt out and leave" belief, wouldn't all the farmers be gone by now?
So questions the guy with only 3 50s after 4.5 years of play.
Be well, people of CoH.
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It doesn't need to be true of all... perhaps not even a majority. If 30% of new players quit after a few months because there's "no end game content", that's a lot of revenue down the drain.
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Where does this 30% PL-quit statistic come from?
My point is that this is a number that you just made up on the spot. We have zero evidence that any such thing is happening. And to say "oh well IT MIGHT HAPPEN so we better DO something!" quickly means gridlock if you take that thought to its logical conclusion: pretty soon everything is set in stone, exit freedom.
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Early game goes by so fast if they lose interest because of hunt quests then CoX wasn't going to keep them anyway.
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So, fast leveling in the sewers is a-ok but fast leveling via AE is The Devil...? people *will* choose the fastest way to get out of the early levels, they've been doing this for literally years now. I know these distinctions are important to some of you, but I'm honestly confused. The only way to implement what you seem to want would be extremely draconian.
Draconian usually has me headed out the door when it comes to entertainment-value, but ok. Enjoyment and "brutal discipline" are not usually synonymous when I'm trying to have fun. That's just me.
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EDIT: Side thought: If there were any truth to the "those that farm to 50 get burnt out and leave" belief, wouldn't all the farmers be gone by now?
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I don't think it would be the farmers who would leave, because they're still after whatever they're farming (tickets, INF, salvage, etc.). Instead, it may be the farmees, those who benefitted from PL sessions who may burn out more quickly, and we have no idea on what the churn rate is here, if there is one.
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It doesn't need to be true of all... perhaps not even a majority. If 30% of new players quit after a few months because there's "no end game content", that's a lot of revenue down the drain.
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Where does this 30% PL-quit statistic come from?
My point is that this is a number that you just made up on the spot. We have zero evidence that any such thing is happening. And to say "oh well IT MIGHT HAPPEN so we better DO something!" quickly means gridlock if you take that thought to its logical conclusion: pretty soon everything is set in stone, exit freedom.
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Fortunately the Devs don't have to rely on my hypothetical values. My point was that not "all" players need be burned out by superfast lvling in order for the Devs to make a decision to stop it. Also, if Paragon could hang on to their subscriber base with no freedom whatsoever, they would do so. Of course, they couldn't do that, which is why your slippery slope scenario seems unlikely.
As to your other point, if Sewer runs could level toons to 50 in 3 hours then they would be modified as well.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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PLing characters to 50 in hours would seem to make players burn out much more quickly than if they had to play the game "as intended". That's why the Devs came down so harshly on AE farmers recently.
[/ QUOTE ]
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As long as you keep playing, they don't care how you play.
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These two statements do not compute.
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Sure they do. The key clause is "As long as you keep playing". Farmers who PL toons to 50 in minutes and still play are great, but are they the minority or the majority? I honestly don't know, but I assume the former.
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Add in the fact that the greatest farming tool ever is about to be given to us with I-16, the first statement lacks merit even more.
The devs frown upon *exploits.* THAT'S why people were punished. They are apparently quite ambivalent toward farming in general.
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Farming and PLing are not the same thing.
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[EDIT: Side thought: If there were any truth to the "those that farm to 50 get burnt out and leave" belief, wouldn't all the farmers be gone by now?
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Farmers like to farm stuff. Who can know the mind of a farmer?
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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P-Knight
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Ewww... that sounds DIRTY!
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Nah, it just sounds like your new rapper name.
Or DJ-PK-FunkyFresh or whatever.
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P-Knight
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Ewww... that sounds DIRTY!
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Nah, it just sounds like your new rapper name.
Or DJ-PK-FunkyFresh or whatever.
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Ummm.... but I already AM a DJ... right here... 
Well there is historical precedence for marking social undesirables. A scarlet letter, other clothing markings. . Yes . I can see it now a ritually unclean caste . I'm sure the Devs will go for that.
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A strange thought occurred to me as I was laying in bed last night:
What if them letting everyone do this AE thing strictly to 50 is part of a larger idea?
What IF by playing in the ae you log in hours to their data mining software? and what IF they use that data to flag your CHARACTERS, not account, for certain things.
What if by allowing you to do this they are simply allowing you to dig yourself into a hole? What if by going from one to fifty strictly there's a consequence? Lets say a team was unhappy about how their masterpiece of an issue was turned into a laughable version of their "vision", then lets say instead of doing the standard UBER nerfing of it, they let you do it. Letting their modules mine whose doing WHAT, and how often.
They then use this data to flag specific characters in all your accounts to be rewarded different. No examples, just general thoughts..
Wouldn't THAT be a plan instead of getting huffy about things publicly and rather directly smacking people around for disrupting your vision? Wouldn't you want to do THAT instead of repeating the tantrum your predecessor made over a similar controversial change?
In short, what if by letting them do all this "farming" they're merely letting them hang themselves by a future diminished return with no explanation, or an explanation in game by[u]Aeon[u] and [u]Crey[u]? They're plugged into the system, data mining you, making things harder for you to get around, get drops, Inf, whatever.
Am I off base here, I'm not thinking "The devs are out to get us!" I'm thinking, in this age of maturity we're in, instead of punching someone, you poison them slowly watching them o.o;
Or am I just thinking too much?
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First i think your giving the devs to much credit. They fricken knew how the thing would be used before it hit live, hell it was being used that way on test.
Secondly at this point i think you should take some sleeping pills so that you stop "thinking" while trying to get to sleep, cause this is pretty fricken paranoid. And if you actaully knew me, you know me saying something is paranoid is a pretty bad thing.
A strange thought occurred to me as I was laying in bed last night:
What if them letting everyone do this AE thing strictly to 50 is part of a larger idea?
What IF by playing in the ae you log in hours to their data mining software? and what IF they use that data to flag your CHARACTERS, not account, for certain things.
What if by allowing you to do this they are simply allowing you to dig yourself into a hole? What if by going from one to fifty strictly there's a consequence? Lets say a team was unhappy about how their masterpiece of an issue was turned into a laughable version of their "vision", then lets say instead of doing the standard UBER nerfing of it, they let you do it. Letting their modules mine whose doing WHAT, and how often.
They then use this data to flag specific characters in all your accounts to be rewarded different. No examples, just general thoughts..
Wouldn't THAT be a plan instead of getting huffy about things publicly and rather directly smacking people around for disrupting your vision? Wouldn't you want to do THAT instead of repeating the tantrum your predecessor made over a similar controversial change?
In short, what if by letting them do all this "farming" they're merely letting them hang themselves by a future diminished return with no explanation, or an explanation in game by[u]Aeon[u] and [u]Crey[u]? They're plugged into the system, data mining you, making things harder for you to get around, get drops, Inf, whatever.
Am I off base here, I'm not thinking "The devs are out to get us!" I'm thinking, in this age of maturity we're in, instead of punching someone, you poison them slowly watching them o.o;
Or am I just thinking too much?