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Can any tankers out there attest to this?
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Doesn't matter what AT I'm playing, I'm usually working with a diva if they're at the tank slot.
Explaining to a tanker that they need to stay 10'+ away from my scrapper so our two taunt auras each net seperate mobs in a double herd situation is pointless. Divas want all the agro. They want it to the point where they forget there's a cap, run over to take more agro, and the mobs they left behind fall off their cap and kill squishies. I've got a pretty large bias against the tanker AT in general because they spend more time seeking (pointless) personal glory instead of working with a team.
I don't know, perhaps sometimes there's a bit of unspoken rivalry. I just finished up Citadel's TF here tonight on my 28 tanker and there were three of us in that group. Shield/Mace, Fire/Ice and me EM/Inv and me and the Fire/Ice just followed the Shields lead. Granted there were times that we all worked separate mob packs but in the end it went off without a hitch.
Granted I do get a grin on my face when I am the last one standing but I also work with my fellow team members to make sure that things go as smoothly as possible. To the OP though that's a shame another tank had to have an ego with you like that. In the end though I don't see the harm in some friendly competition if there's more than one tank in the group.
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Justice Heroes:
Sparkerella 16 Ele/Ele Blaster
Sonic Defensebot 11 Sonic Defender
Justice Villains:
Stone Asylum 31 Stoner Brute
Ms. Synister 22 EM/EA Brute
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I've got a pretty large bias against the tanker AT in general because they spend more time seeking (pointless) personal glory instead of working with a team.
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Gee, I guess you've run into some sucky tanks. The ones I play with put the team ahead of themselves and their egos.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I've got a pretty large bias against the tanker AT in general because they spend more time seeking (pointless) personal glory instead of working with a team.
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Gee, I guess you've run into some sucky tanks. The ones I play with put the team ahead of themselves and their egos.
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Yup, I play mostly on Freedumb and most Tankers I've met weren't primadonnas. The 'wait for me, herding to here' mentality is fading away imo.
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Can any tankers out there attest to this?
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Never felt that. But then, team play is about team play for me, and I don't like hidden personal games of one-upmanship. A large part of the fun factor in PvE is being able to collaborate to handle things that the individual players couldn't handle alone. If team members start competing with one another instead, that pretty much destroys the reason for why I do PvE.
My problem is not with other Tanks... My problem is when I'm on my Scrappers. 
Then I am just hellbent to out-survive and out-aggro the team Tank(s). Partly as a nice challenge and partly to poke them into getting a move on. I have played with some excellent Tanks, but 90% of the ones I run into don't push the pace enough on teams.
Usually having a Scrapper take the alpha ahead of the team and racing from spawn to spawn ahead of the group hits most of the PuG Tanks in their vanity, which can be a little funny to watch...
Conversely, when I'm Tanking and Scrappers start heading off in front of the team, it usually prods me into shifting into high gear. Some teams are just set up to steamroll and sometimes Tanks (including me) can err on the side of safety and slow down more than is warranted.
Besides, there are a lot of elements to Tanking that are measurable, aggro control, survivability, mobility, damage output... Most important for me is team fun level. If you're tanking effectively, a sure sign is people kicking back and just having fun. For some teams, that's people loosening up and shooting the bull while cruising missions in style. For some teams people buckle down and focus on steamrolling as fast as possible, coming up for air between missions. Either way, when you are Tanking well and feel the team dynamic shift in either direction, you know you're doing something right.
Those are the teams that really put a smile on my face. 
I don't mind when another Tanker joins up. Sometimes, it's actually beneficial. As Garthalus said, 90% of fellow Tanks I've played with simply do not push the pace enough for my liking. So I help them out. I'll send a /Tell to the other Tank, and let him know that he should stick with the group, and I'll bring him the mobs. Then, as he shuffles in to the first group, I'll hop ahead to the second and bring 'em on back. Rinse and repeat.
I hate to dig 'em (har!), but this almost always happens with Stone tanks. They simply stay in Granite and teleport from standing-still-spot to standing-still-spot. It really goes a LOT faster with a second tank to round up outside groups.
Personally, I enjoy teaming with other Tankers, so long as they're not the super-anal, micro-managing type. And the only time I compare my toon's performance with other Tankers is usually during "when-the-sh*t-hits-the-fan" situations, like Rikti Mothership Raids that go south and everyone starts dying. Then it's interesting to see who's left standing.
I've also been wanting to get in on all-Tanker Invincible Task Forces. To me, that sounds like crazy-fun. (I get bored with all the Heroic TF speed-runs. Fighting white and yellow cons is a snooze-fest.)
Winteriel Ice/Fire/Soul Tanker | @TBoxer Global | City of Heroes R.I.P. (2004-2012)
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My problem is not with other Tanks... My problem is when I'm on my Scrappers.
Then I am just hellbent to out-survive and out-aggro the team Tank(s). Partly as a nice challenge and partly to poke them into getting a move on. I have played with some excellent Tanks, but 90% of the ones I run into don't push the pace enough on teams.
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I do this all the time on my Spines/WP scrapper, so much so that the character has a rep among certain tankers I play with regularly. That character is fairly good for herding and fairly safe in large groups.
I'm only dangerous when I've just taken another armor power on a low level tanker. That's when the impulse to "let;s see what this one is doing for me" takes hold.
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"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Generally if a tank is any good then there is no need for more than one on a team besides filling the team up. As a rule when I'm leading with a tank I don't look for another tank to fill a spot unless there is literally noone on, the only reason for this is that if you have two tanks and they both want to be in the Alpha role (which they WILL unconciously fight for) then hey look the team's confuzled and then something bad can happen. Basically one Alpha is better than two. That being said if you often play with another tank and kinda have a good system down as far as pulling herding and general control of agro then having two tanks can be an amazing thing. But that doesn't happen often.
However in your situation they had room and they should have invited you, it's easy enough to say "hey I'm lead, you play scrapper this time"
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One of the dramatic characteristics of experience is being with another person and suddenly seeing the ways in which they are like you, not different from you, and experiencing the fact that which is essence in you, and which is essence in me, is indeed ONE, the understanding that there is no other, it is all one.
On that note, I wish many people followed the general idea that being competitive is just a fallacy provided by ego. I never have a problem with another tank on a team. I usually lead the team so I choose the "lead tank". Though in my own defense I switch lead tanks to make it "fair". Though I have run into some very experienced tanks that now switch to their "scrank" build whenever theres already a lead Tank.
My comfortable nature with the same AT as one I'm playing is probably due to playing with and along side a Kheldian. I was either another scrapper for the attack bonus or another tank for defense bonus. I saw the "need to compete" as trivial as we all want ONE thing....levels.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
I do agree _Force_, many tanks when paired with another will unconciously compete. On the flip side I have teamed with "weaker" tanks that allow me to lead and provide added dmg. More "mature" players will accept certain definitives and use rational to either, lead or be lead. Another factor could be the server and how new the players are. Though with dual spec, matters of such, shouldn't really be a problem. Yet I still see many Tanks trying to out perform each other "I'm the better one!" "Look at my furrows of worry, I better tank harder".
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
I was on a team last night with 4 Tanks... No infighting, no prima donnas... Just fun team play.
Generalizations (such as the one I am making now) are inherently inaccurate.
Well yeah, like i said, it's all friendly competition, nothing more. Whenever I join a team and there's already another tanker there, I instantly let him lead - certain situations may be ruled out - but the way I usually see it is, whomever has taunt, they're the one to lead. The other just kicks back and plays scranker role, grabbing the aggro of wanderers and what not.
But as mentioned in an earlier post, when the sh*t hits the fan, than that's when my competitive drive fires up. There's a big difference between steamrolling mobs, and tanking them.
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
I only get competitive in Cimerora. I have no problems doing that TF without dying, and in the first and third mishs, I always go out ahead to speed things up if there's another tank on the team, because being in the same spot as everyone else is too safe on that TF.
The only time I dislike teaming with other tanks is when they see to it that they compete for things I've already aggro'd. Right because the boss is really going to care how good your yo momma joke is after I just sent him flying through the air with KoB 
GIVE TANKS DARKNESS/ELECTRICAL MASTERY! =3
Level 50's: Komrade Kommunism (T); King Darksource (T); Burning Red Star (T); Komrade Kosmonaut (WS); Vredesbyrd (Br); Anarchery (Bl)
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No competition for me, usually. More than one tank on a team is fine... I just try to make sure we're splitting up the aggro... it's a bit silly when two tanks are standing right next to each other, as they should make sure they're gathering everyone up (arguably the same for the Tankers and Scrappers, partially for AOE damage that SOME scrappers can't handle and partially for aggro). I've had to remind a few other tanks of this, as somehow they'd pile right in next to me, even though mobs often like to clump up in slightly separate groups, out of aura range.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I have been teams with my tank where there was another tank. I analyze thier build and make general assumptions as to what they can handle, and go from there. I will sometimes play lead if the situation calls for it, or support. But the tanks that come right out and say, "I'll lead!" are either really good at thier job or bound for a stupid mistake. In either case I will be keeping my eyes peeled, and react accordingly. I don't do what I want to do, I just do what's necessary.
I enjoy being on a team with more than 1 Tank personally. I've been a Tank since I started. Being a "mature" player, I usually ask if the other Tank would like to play lead Tank, unless I build the team, like for TF's. I don't have an ego as such, however, if after a while the lead Tank seems skittish or unsure, I usually just take the lead (I tend to run missions very fast if I think the team can handle it). Nothing is ever said, there is NEVER any bickering, and we tend to run several missions before the team starts to break up (lvl'ing, dinner, etc...).
That being said, I like to look at other Tank's builds (and IO sets bonuses). I have no problem learning from another Tank, and if I see them do something that works that I like, I'll adopt it myself.
50 Inv/SS Tank, 50 Inv/EM Tank, 50 FA/SS Tank, 50 Shield/SS Tank, 50 WP/SS Tank, 50 Dark/Dark Tank, 50 EM/Elec Brute, 50 SS/FA Brute, 50 SS/SR Brute, 50 Fire/Kin Controller, 50 Plant/Storm Controller, 50 Earth/Therm Controller, 50 Necro/Dark MM, 50 Bots/FF MM, 50 Elec/SD Scrapper, 50 Arch/MM Blaster, 50 Emp/Psi Defender
Another bad experience playing with another tank. This one insisted on herding everything... with only RttC. No Taunt, no attacks, just RttC. Naturally, as soon as he brought them right by my INV/ Tank, they stopped following him entirely, and I ended up with most of the aggro.
1 other expirience that keenly sticks out in my head... I was running a Numi with several other people from the global chat for the server, and one of them was playing an ice/ice tank. She insisted on herding everything... [I'm beginning to see a trend here =P] and the first mish was taking forever, until finally (I was on my WS at the time) I jumped in immediately after she did and let loose with Mire then Quasar, turning all but a few of the spawn into floor decorations. At the beginning of the 2nd mish, our leader said that we had a tank, and we should use her, but the damage was already done, others got more adventurous, and the team sped up dramatically... about halfway through she got the idea that herding was only slowing us down, and asked us to jump in.
GIVE TANKS DARKNESS/ELECTRICAL MASTERY! =3
Level 50's: Komrade Kommunism (T); King Darksource (T); Burning Red Star (T); Komrade Kosmonaut (WS); Vredesbyrd (Br); Anarchery (Bl)
I usually find myself trying to work with the other Tanker to pull together bigger packs, which most times seems to get picked up as Tanker comraderie while being unspoken.
If the Tanker next to me is squishy (as in he/she can't handle their pulls) I'll usually take a look at their power selections and start making good natured jibes like "Stick with me kid, I got Tough/Weave(tm)". In most cases this usually leads them to asking if Tough/Weave (or power X) is really better for their build and a good natured discussion of builds ensues while we're fighting.
I generally build my Tankers for survivability first, so "out lasting" the next guy is rarely something that comes up.
I've yet to have a Scrapper that has outlasted one of my Tankers in a toe to toe situation.
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I've yet to have a Scrapper that has outlasted one of my Tankers in a toe to toe situation.
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That is as it should be, but frankly, I run into a lot of Tanks in TF's and PuG's that my Scrappers can out-survive while dealing a ton of pain in the process. Hell, I ran with a Shield Defense Tank last night whose positional Defense values were LOWER than my Fire/Shield Scrapper (who doesn't have Weave). I was dragging the team behind be with three Tanks in tow through mission after mission... Was exciting, but I just felt sad those Tanks couldn't keep up.
YMMV I guess.
In normal missions, I just arrange to tank alternate mobs with the other tank, so that there's always a nice tight group for the damage to blow away.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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In normal missions, I just arrange to tank alternate mobs with the other tank, so that there's always a nice tight group for the damage to blow away.
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With two good Tanks, this can work EXCEEDINGLY well. I've only had the opportunity to team with someone willing to leapfrog each other a couple times, but man... The team just steamrolled as a result.
Honestly, I do notice a bit of a rivalry. I don't antagonize or say anything. But I do check out builds and powers. If for example, a tanker has TP Friend---I laugh.
If I find myself on a team, even as a 50, I'll let another tank lead if they really, really want to. But I guess there is always a subconscious thing there that hey this tank's build isn't as good as mine.
For awhile I always thought that I was the only one that thought like this, meaning, whenever there is another tank on the team besides myself, I always unconsciosly challenge them to see who's the tougher one. I never say anything to my fellow tank about it, as it's just my competitive nature to always be better, but lately, I've been realizing that I'm not the only one.
The other day when I playing my troller on a 7man team, the leader invited another to the group; a lv45 stone/fire tank. As the new guy entered the mish, our INV/SS tank jokingly responded "Man, now I gotta compete with a Granite, just great" to which we all just lol'd.
Another incident involved me joining a lv47ish AV team in PI with my Ice/Stone tank. Someone (no names for obvious reasons) began broadcasting that their team was looking for 2 more to join their group. I sent him a tell saying "Lv46 tank willing to join" to which he responded, "No thanks, I'm the lead tank on this team, no need for another." I shrugged off his ignorance and continued working my paper missions, but once again the question arised in my head, "Is their some sought of hidden competitiveness between us tanks? Do we unconsciously try to prove ourselves to our team by making sure we're still standing when the other tank has already fallen?"
Once again, the rivalry is friendly, and usually never even spoke of, not even thought of consciously, but I know there's something there; or maybe it's just me and my competitive nature. Whatever it is, us tanks, seem to like to be the last one standing, regardless of the situation. And when we somehow fall before the other tank, and especially the scrapper, it somehow leaves us with a ac'ing blow to the ego.
Can any tankers out there attest to this?
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own