Why would double stacking CP be any more powerful than just having it perma? Or just having it & PS? Once you have all the end you can ever use, more end recovery (well, halving usage in this case) is just wasted. I hope you're right though and it's "not allowed" since I don't want it in the first place.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
My point being double-stacking invariably leads to Nerfs, and I don't want that for any set.
Also, endless Endurance could see the creation of some scary farm builds, for example ELA/SS witrh auto-foot stomp can literally farm all night without stopping EVER.
EDIT: my money (and hope) is still on Short Circuit.
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Although Kruunch has a point (if you have a lot of recharge+hasten+lightning reflexes you can make CP perma, or close to it, allowing you to skip fitness altogether), for ElA toons Power Sink is enough. As I said, my super end hog Stone/Ela Brute is fine with 1 recharge on P. Sink for now, and I used to run out of end even with speed boost on some extreme situations before PS.
So I hope they change CP for Tankers AND Stalkers and Brutes (both in ELA and EA) for something more useful and add CP to some Patron Brute pool. Some Brutes (w/ other powersets) would kill for Conserve Power as a Patron Power.
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So I hope they change CP for Tankers AND Stalkers and Brutes (both in ELA and EA) for something more useful and add CP to some Patron Brute pool. Some Brutes (w/ other powersets) would kill for Conserve Power as a Patron Power.
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That would get me interested in my SS/Inv brute, who currently serves only as a figurehead for my villain group, while the Willpower brute does all the heavy lifting.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
My point is that double stacking CP does nothing more than single stacking it--you already get infinite end w/just getting it perma. Unless you think the devs are just afraid of the phrase "double stacking" which... wouldn't particularly surprise me.
CP (or PS) is a bad way to get auto-firing farm builds since you need to auto fire the attack, unless you're just doing it w/auras, in which case you don't even need CP (or PS). Hell, I can auto-fire FS now on my tank and never run out of end, if that's all you're doing.
Short Circuit would be hella cool--hope you're right about that. A self-heal would really take the set over the edge for high-end IO builds, though it might help the SO-build be survivable.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Well with a fully slotted CP, Hasten and fairly pedestrian global recharge, you can get CP down to 150s recharge. Add in a second CP with the same stats (what would happen here if nothing changes in ElA (that's for Kioshi 
) and that would make CP effectively perma, no?
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It would Kruunch, which is why I doubt they are going to allow it. Perma-CP is very powerful when you think about it. Also with some of the high recharge builds out there plus a lil team support and you enter the realm of double-stacking. THAT is scary in and of itself.
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It would be rather asinine to make such a build, that requires 2 powers, locks you into a specific epic, is not available while exempted, if the same recharge and investment would make Power Sink available every 15 seconds. You should NEVER need more endurance than what Power Sink because anything you can do to make Conserve Power better will make Power Sink that much better.
elec doesnt have any defense at all so basically it would all be from bonus's and weave and cj if you would soft cap it right?
and i would never skip fitness even with perma cp..just cause of all the uniques like the ps + end ,numina regen/recov, miracle + recov/pancea +hp ( all these slots come from not slotting scorch . i guess its more important to me then a minor damage power..to each is own i guess)
not to mention why i have such issues with people taking weave and cj for lotg+ recharges on fire tanks let alone elec tanks
too many great things to place in toons to skip fitness imo,unless your just gonna make it to sit or have a pocket emp around then sure..
question though...grounded has what 6 kb protection right?
[/ QUOTE ]Oh please. If you felt that way you'd be posting in the 2 ELA threads. I'm guessing you solo alot.
Electric Armor is great for solo fighting. Unlimited endurance, medium resis to all, a strong Tier 9 for EBs and a nice damage aura that saps endurance from the baddies once PS does it's diligence of draining most of their end.
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Ah yes... here we have one of the many "Talking Heads" that are so infamous on the forums that are under the belief that Brutes cannot tank. To you, I can only say... well, nothing really. It's not worth the effort to try to convince you. I do frequently play on large teams with my WM/Elec Brute, however. As for "mediocre resists"... if you consider roughly 80% S/L (with tough), 55% F/C, 90%E, 55%Neg, and 50% Psi resist (rough estimates, mind you) to be "mediocre", then I don't know what to tell you. They're better than most other tanks' resistances.
As for tanking Hamidon on a LGTF... why on earth were you jumping when all you need to do is taunt? You did have teammates, right? Let me guess.. you don't have taunt on your Brute because Brutes aren't Tanks.
Suffice to say, I have no problems tanking for large teams on my /Elec Brute. Maybe it's a matter of playstyle, maybe it's a matter of mitigation via my primary (WarMace); regardless it's pretty shortsighted to say that /Elec (Elec/ for Tankers) is poor for large teams. Many people have demonstrated time and time again that pretty much any primary/secondary combination in the game can be made viable. If you don't like Electric Armor, please don't play it.
50 Tankers: Ice/EM, Stone/WM, Fire/Stone, Dark/Ice, Inv/SS, Inv/Dark, Elec/Elec
50 Brutes: ElecMelee/EA, WM/Elec
Grounded gives 6 points of Immobilize protection. It gives 15 points of KB protecttion... when 'on the ground.'
That last bit can trip you up. Be aware that your KB protection will be hit-or-miss when on slopes or other uneaven ground.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Grounded gives 6 points of Immobilize protection. It gives 15 points of KB protecttion... when 'on the ground.'
That last bit can trip you up. Be aware that your KB protection will be hit-or-miss when on slopes or other uneaven ground.
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ahhh good to know thanks
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A bit confident, are we?
I'm curious as to the effect that the lessened amount of -Res hero-side will have on the set's overall survivability, not to mention the increase in Res amounts due to being ported to the Tanker AT. On a Brute, you're getting holes knocked through your armor all the time thanks to Longbow and Arachnos. Aside from the few enemy groups heroes can fight that deal sonic damage (are there even any?) and toxic damage, an Electric Armor user is going to have their defenses tested much less than villains who use the set. In my humble, yet-unable-to run-actual-playtests opinion.
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The same could be said about Dark Armor. Some imagined it would be "tougher" resistance wise, till you play it and realize that you rather role a fire in its place. Regardless it will be a fun set for as people already posted, PVP. And certain unwanted energy based foes. Of course PVE will probably break the AT down with the S/L which is pretty much 90% of the game dmg. Then again I was never happy having two end modifier powers as a Brute(Conserve Power, Power Sink), something about not having a heal always bothered me, but thats personal preference.
I just see the set as yet another; Tough/Weave friendly build. But with dual specs and Io's I doubt many will complain.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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Ah yes... here we have one of the many "Talking Heads" that are so infamous on the forums that are under the belief that Brutes cannot tank. To you, I can only say... well, nothing really. It's not worth the effort to try to convince you. I do frequently play on large teams with my WM/Elec Brute, however. As for "mediocre resists"... if you consider roughly 80% S/L (with tough), 55% F/C, 90%E, 55%Neg, and 50% Psi resist (rough estimates, mind you) to be "mediocre", then I don't know what to tell you. They're better than most other tanks' resistances.
As for tanking Hamidon on a LGTF... why on earth were you jumping when all you need to do is taunt? You did have teammates, right? Let me guess.. you don't have taunt on your Brute because Brutes aren't Tanks.
Suffice to say, I have no problems tanking for large teams on my /Elec Brute. Maybe it's a matter of playstyle, maybe it's a matter of mitigation via my primary (WarMace); regardless it's pretty shortsighted to say that /Elec (Elec/ for Tankers) is poor for large teams. Many people have demonstrated time and time again that pretty much any primary/secondary combination in the game can be made viable. If you don't like Electric Armor, please don't play it.
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Not only QFT but pretty accurate as well, I love my elec/elec Brute. And I pretty much treat him like a tank (taunt included).
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Um, you seem to be quoting me, but I said nothing to the sort. In fact, I like my Elec brute. 
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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elec doesnt have any defense at all so basically it would all be from bonus's and weave and cj if you would soft cap it right?
and i would never skip fitness even with perma cp..just cause of all the uniques like the ps + end ,numina regen/recov, miracle + recov/pancea +hp ( all these slots come from not slotting scorch . i guess its more important to me then a minor damage power..to each is own i guess)
not to mention why i have such issues with people taking weave and cj for lotg+ recharges on fire tanks let alone elec tanks
too many great things to place in toons to skip fitness imo,unless your just gonna make it to sit or have a pocket emp around then sure..
question though...grounded has what 6 kb protection right?
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If you had perma CP (not to mention PS) why on earth would you want expensive uniques that give +recovery?
The regen you could get elsewhere.
yeah, i may reroll my elec/elec brute as a tank, or even try ela/SS, that just sounds really nasty thinking about it.
If they switch up CP, that will be perfect, as it is complete waste in ela. A heal would be very nice, as aid self leaves a lot to be desired. Aid self works fine in most content, but if you ever try to fire it in large groups, your timing has to be pretty damn good. I used to have no problems, didnt play the toon for over a year and is frustrating as hell now, so i dropped it. If you set it up similar to a strong DA setup, makes them very tough, with unlimited end.
as far as the kb protection in grounded, if you arent on the ground solid, it is just silly. I consistently got knocked on my [censored] when i would LR into large groups until i slotted a kb protection IO.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Well with a fully slotted CP, Hasten and fairly pedestrian global recharge, you can get CP down to 150s recharge. Add in a second CP with the same stats (what would happen here if nothing changes in ElA (that's for Kioshi ) and that would make CP effectively perma, no?
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It would Kruunch, which is why I doubt they are going to allow it. Perma-CP is very powerful when you think about it. Also with some of the high recharge builds out there plus a lil team support and you enter the realm of double-stacking. THAT is scary in and of itself.
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It would be rather asinine to make such a build, that requires 2 powers, locks you into a specific epic, is not available while exempted, if the same recharge and investment would make Power Sink available every 15 seconds. You should NEVER need more endurance than what Power Sink because anything you can do to make Conserve Power better will make Power Sink that much better.
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As asanine as WP Tankers taking Stamina and Quick Recovery?
/boggle
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Ah yes... here we have one of the many "Talking Heads" that are so infamous on the forums that are under the belief that Brutes cannot tank.
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I certainly have never said such a thing. I have regularly tanked STF, LGTF, and LRSF --- and BSF, once --- on my DM/WP brute.
That said, generally speaking, in the current game defense tends to outperform resistance. Been this way since the dark days of i5 - i7. Even a few points of defense mean that some full damage attack that might have hit you now has that much larger a chance to miss. But 5% resistance means that you take 95 damage from an attack that would have hit for 100. Defense is all good from 1% to the cap. Increasing your resistance starts to make a difference only at values greater than 50%. Then there's the debuff issue, which means that unless resistance based sets resist a debuff, they eat the full value of the debuff from everything that hits.
The purely resistance based tanker sets out there now - Fire and Dark Armor - aren't generally considered top tier for pure survivability, although Dark Armor can get by with various parlor tricks. Fire used to have offensive abilities that were supposed to make up for its inherent softness; it no longer gets adequate compensation for its weakness now. Adding another to this duo of low performance tanker primaries isn't going to excite all that many people.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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The regen you could get elsewhere.
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To look at it from a different point of view:
Health: +40% base, 78% slotted
Numina: +20% base, 39% slotted
Regen Tissue: 25% base, 48.75% slotted
Total: 85% base, 165.75% slotted
That's a lot of regen to makeup from set bonuses - seven to fourteen 12% regen bonuses. Of course, taking Health isn't mutually exclusive with those regen bonuses; you could go both routes at once if you liked.
Counter example: Would you skip Weave on a def heavy build? Sure, you can make up the def with sets, but it's easier not to - giving you more slots to focus on other bonuses. (Not necessarily the best example since def stacks exponentially rather than linearly like regen, but hopefully you understand my intent.)
Note: I've never played Elec Armor. Too one dimensional for my tastes.
[edit: I tried a Stamina-less EA Stalker with ED and CP... I hated it. Too much waiting on / reliance on clicks to sustain my offense, which interrupted the flow. Besides that, I felt slow (no Swift/Hurdle) and the lack of any extra regen (Health) sucked). Your mileage will vary on builds without Fitness, but I've never been happy with any I've tried. Ick.]
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Ah yes... here we have one of the many "Talking Heads" that are so infamous on the forums that are under the belief that Brutes cannot tank. To you, I can only say... well, nothing really. It's not worth the effort to try to convince you. I do frequently play on large teams with my WM/Elec Brute, however. As for "mediocre resists"... if you consider roughly 80% S/L (with tough), 55% F/C, 90%E, 55%Neg, and 50% Psi resist (rough estimates, mind you) to be "mediocre", then I don't know what to tell you. They're better than most other tanks' resistances.
As for tanking Hamidon on a LGTF... why on earth were you jumping when all you need to do is taunt? You did have teammates, right? Let me guess.. you don't have taunt on your Brute because Brutes aren't Tanks.
Suffice to say, I have no problems tanking for large teams on my /Elec Brute. Maybe it's a matter of playstyle, maybe it's a matter of mitigation via my primary (WarMace); regardless it's pretty shortsighted to say that /Elec (Elec/ for Tankers) is poor for large teams. Many people have demonstrated time and time again that pretty much any primary/secondary combination in the game can be made viable. If you don't like Electric Armor, please don't play it.
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Brutes can physically tank.
Most people who play Brutes cannot (meaning they don't build them to).
(highly subjective personal experience)
If a self heal of some type isn't offered in ElA, would you prefer +168% regen over Aid Self (not to mention that you can slot most of the afore mentioned into Aid Self)?
If not, then what do you give up to keep Stamina? Fighting Pool? Leaping/Flying (assuming you're trying to build defense)? Speed (Hasten)?
On a total resist set, you need every source of defense you can get AND a heal (as witnessed by Fire Tankers that attempt heavy tanking). Regen is nice but barely cuts it at WP levels in my experience.
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elec doesnt have any defense at all so basically it would all be from bonus's and weave and cj if you would soft cap it right?
and i would never skip fitness even with perma cp..just cause of all the uniques like the ps + end ,numina regen/recov, miracle + recov/pancea +hp ( all these slots come from not slotting scorch . i guess its more important to me then a minor damage power..to each is own i guess)
not to mention why i have such issues with people taking weave and cj for lotg+ recharges on fire tanks let alone elec tanks
too many great things to place in toons to skip fitness imo,unless your just gonna make it to sit or have a pocket emp around then sure..
question though...grounded has what 6 kb protection right?
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If you had perma CP (not to mention PS) why on earth would you want expensive uniques that give +recovery?
The regen you could get elsewhere.
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cause im a recov junkie...ive got it bad...honestly
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If a self heal of some type isn't offered in ElA, would you prefer +168% regen over Aid Self (not to mention that you can slot most of the afore mentioned into Aid Self)?
If not, then what do you give up to keep Stamina? Fighting Pool? Leaping/Flying (assuming you're trying to build defense)? Speed (Hasten)?
On a total resist set, you need every source of defense you can get AND a heal (as witnessed by Fire Tankers that attempt heavy tanking). Regen is nice but barely cuts it at WP levels in my experience.
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I'm not an expert at Elec Armor by any means and I won't pretend to be. My main point was that 168% regen isn't a trivial amount to just pickup somewhere. If you have AS with 95% heal slotting and recharging every 10s, it's exactly 1/4 of Aid Self, passively. (If you're using Aid Self every 10, you're spending ~30% of your animation time doing nothing but healing. That's a ton.)
I'm not saying I'd take 168% regen instead of Aid Self - I'd take both if I could. (As I said, I've never made a build without Fitness I've been happy with, so I'd be taking it anyways. That's just my opinion.)
i have a lvl 50 Elec/Elec brute that i love. that said some things ppl have not noticed CP is a complete waste of time becuase perma PS is way better i can fire off my aid self just after PS activates. just build for recharge and end drain will help tremendously. also suggest tough if not also weave.
also dont forget how fun it will be to face a sapper and say "oh really?, let me show you what true sapping is." example: clockwork. and energy damage to a ElA is a joke just brush the dust off your shoulder as you walk past.
and with elec Melee you have another mitigation tool in your belt "Sleep" just dont use your Lightning field or any other damage auras at the time. i actually put a purple sleep set in mine so while pvping ("before I13 that is dont pvp any more.") the chance to placate goes off , nice supprise hehe.
now time to play electric as a tank and scrap should be fun.
mmmmm , BS/ElA Scrap wont have to worry bout end issues hehehe.
just my 2 cents worth , take it or leave it. have fun peace.
Talos Maltalomar lvl 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter - Triumph Server
Arack BloodThrall lvl 50 BS/SR Scrapper - Triumph Server
Rose's Kiss Lvl 50 Mind/Nrg/Ice PermaDom - Triumph Server
I'm looking forward to rolling up an Electric Armor/Stone Melee Tanker. With Power Sink to fuel Stone Melee's attacks, and Stone Melee's mitigation (knockdown/stun) to buy time to fire off Aid Self when needed, it should turn out to be a pretty sturdy Tank.
Winteriel Ice/Fire/Soul Tanker | @TBoxer Global | City of Heroes R.I.P. (2004-2012)
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) and that would make CP effectively perma, no?
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Anyhow if Elec Armor for Tankers/Scrappers get something actually useful instead of CP there will be hordes of Brutes and Stalkers screaming...
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It strikes me that the ability to pick up Conserve Power at level 18 on a tanker would be one of the main attractions of the set. This is when you'd get it if it were ported over without changes. With auxiliary powers, you could have it twice, and any Electric Armor tanker I probably would make likely would have it twice.
Not sure why I am seeing the hate for what looks to me to be the most fun and useful power in the set.
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The power has a duration of 90 seconds and a recharge of 600 seconds, thats an uptime of 15% without enhancements and 29% if fully slotted. Thats not going to help anyone skip Stamina.
Making Power Sink tier 7, though, would.
Power Sink has a 60 second cool-down and it can literally refill your full endurance bar with enough foes around. That's every 31ish seconds with 3 recharge SOs. Conserve Power is entirely redundant in the set, not to mention horribly weak compared to the alternative.
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Well with a fully slotted CP, Hasten and fairly pedestrian global recharge, you can get CP down to 150s recharge. Add in a second CP with the same stats (what would happen here if nothing changes in ElA (that's for Kioshi
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It would Kruunch, which is why I doubt they are going to allow it. Perma-CP is very powerful when you think about it. Also with some of the high recharge builds out there plus a lil team support and you enter the realm of double-stacking. THAT is scary in and of itself.
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat