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Actually TS is a TAoE, the aoe damage radiates from the target of the melee attack.
[/ QUOTE ] That doesnt mean anything, you could say the same thing about lightning rod or shield charge or inferno or nova. They all do this. Chance for damage is based on how close you are to the center of where the power starts.
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One sure fire way to tell it isn't an pbaoe; can you use it with no targets?
[/ QUOTE ] What about lotus drops, combustion, and various PBAoEs that be used with no targets. Some that require targets are shadow maul, flashing steel, Head spliter. If you want targeted AoE then you need to look at attacks like shockwave. Thats about as targeted as you can get.
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I think it is the only melee range taoe though, so it is pretty unique and something I personally feel a lot more melee attacks should have. Effectively spalsh damage. Makes sense on fire attacks at least.
[/ QUOTE ] Dude for the last time you are just wrong on this. Its not a TAoE,its PBAoE.
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
I'm finding it strange that some people are going on about broadswords being thematically inappropriate...
...then going on about how they wanted Shields.
Wut?
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I love the fact that stalkers are getting Broadsword.
I can finally make my "slasher flick villain" stalker.
Huge guy comes out of nowhere and hacks you with a big chunk of steel?
Sounds like a slasher flick to me 
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just need a hockey mask and a machete option, I still don't get why Katana got the option and not Broadsword...especially when Grave Knights have them...
@Evil Ryu, you're missing the point man. By how these attacks are executed, they can be called Targeted AoEs because they require you to actually have a enemy selected to do the attack. They simply go by PBAoE's because the general effect is where the player is standing. Comparing them to the likes of Inferno or Nova which don't require targeting is just a bad example.
Thunder Strike, Shadow Maul, Head Splitter, etc. These are all Targeted AoEs that act as PBAoEs.
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Actually TS is a TAoE, the aoe damage radiates from the target of the melee attack.
[/ QUOTE ] That doesnt mean anything, you could say the same thing about lightning rod or shield charge or inferno or nova. They all do this. Chance for damage is based on how close you are to the center of where the power starts.
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One sure fire way to tell it isn't an pbaoe; can you use it with no targets?
[/ QUOTE ] What about lotus drops, combustion, and various PBAoEs that be used with no targets. Some that require targets are shadow maul, flashing steel, Head spliter. If you want targeted AoE then you need to look at attacks like shockwave. Thats about as targeted as you can get.
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I think it is the only melee range taoe though, so it is pretty unique and something I personally feel a lot more melee attacks should have. Effectively spalsh damage. Makes sense on fire attacks at least.
[/ QUOTE ] Dude for the last time you are just wrong on this. Its not a TAoE,its PBAoE.
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Actually we already discussed this and I'm not wrong in the least.I'm technically right, but based on your posting history I think that is irrelevant to you.
Where does the aoe damage radiate from when you use thunderstrike? Is it from around you or is it from around your target?
If they had TAoE sets in the game I'm sure it would take them (not much reason too tho, it is the only TAoE that doesn't fall under the ranged category), but they don't and it makes more sense to allow it to accept Pbaoe than it does to accept Ranged Aoe sets as it is cognitively closer to a pbaoe than a ranged aoe, due to lacking the "ranged" aspect of Ranged Aoe.
Starsman was correct in his evaluation.
The chances of a firemelee port retaining FSC and BoF while dropping scorch is very low. It would be very nice to have FSC, but it is likely the attack that would be dropped for AS.
scorch
firesword
cremate
AS
BU
Placate
Breath of Fire
Incin
GFS
Ya I'd like FSC over BoF, but proly unlikely. The upfront damage on FSC is about 42% greater than spineburst, which would mean some very impressive aoe burst. I'd like it but, i dunno.
Dropping scorch I just don't see happening either. EM is currently the "slowest" starting set with its fastest attack at 4 second rech. Removing scorch would mean fire's fastest attack is 6 seconds.
Firesword+cremate+BoF would make for some crappy leveling. I don't see them pushing Incinerate down to the T3, that attack will be amazing for stalkers.
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Actually TS is a TAoE, the aoe damage radiates from the target of the melee attack.
[/ QUOTE ] That doesnt mean anything, you could say the same thing about lightning rod or shield charge or inferno or nova. They all do this. Chance for damage is based on how close you are to the center of where the power starts.
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One sure fire way to tell it isn't an pbaoe; can you use it with no targets?
[/ QUOTE ] What about lotus drops, combustion, and various PBAoEs that be used with no targets. Some that require targets are shadow maul, flashing steel, Head spliter. If you want targeted AoE then you need to look at attacks like shockwave. Thats about as targeted as you can get.
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I think it is the only melee range taoe though, so it is pretty unique and something I personally feel a lot more melee attacks should have. Effectively spalsh damage. Makes sense on fire attacks at least.
[/ QUOTE ] Dude for the last time you are just wrong on this. Its not a TAoE,its PBAoE.
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Actually we already discussed this and I'm not wrong in the least.I'm technically right, but based on your posting history I think that is irrelevant to you.
Where does the aoe damage radiate from when you use thunderstrike? Is it from around you or is it from around your target?
If they had TAoE sets in the game I'm sure it would take them (not much reason too tho, it is the only TAoE that doesn't fall under the ranged category), but they don't and it makes more sense to allow it to accept Pbaoe than it does to accept Ranged Aoe sets as it is cognitively closer to a pbaoe than a ranged aoe, due to lacking the "ranged" aspect of Ranged Aoe.
Starsman was correct in his evaluation.
The chances of a firemelee port retaining FSC and BoF while dropping scorch is very low. It would be very nice to have FSC, but it is likely the attack that would be dropped for AS.
scorch
firesword
cremate
AS
BU
Placate
Breath of Fire
Incin
GFS
Ya I'd like FSC over BoF, but proly unlikely. The upfront damage on FSC is about 42% greater than spineburst, which would mean some very impressive aoe burst. I'd like it but, i dunno.
Dropping scorch I just don't see happening either. EM is currently the "slowest" starting set with its fastest attack at 4 second rech. Removing scorch would mean fire's fastest attack is 6 seconds.
Firesword+cremate+BoF would make for some crappy leveling. I don't see them pushing Incinerate down to the T3, that attack will be amazing for stalkers.
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If we're getting technical here, maybe we should just get the terms down.
-There is no such thing as TAoE (targeted AoE). It's either a PBAoE (player based AoE) or a ranged AoE (or just AoE). You can use the term TAoE if you're specifying certain parameters but since there is no IO sets for it, might as well not get confused.
-A PBAoE would be an AoE that emanates from the player and/or no further than melee range of 7ft. Shadow Maul is a PBAoE because it's a cone 7ft in front of you. Foot Stomp is a PBAoE because it emanates from the player out 15ft in all direction. Thuderstrike is a PBAoE because it's an AoE that emanates (is it 10ft?) around the target yet the target must be within melee range.
-Ranged AoEs are AoEs that go further than melee range, that's it. Fistfull of Arrows goes I believe 15ft or farther in a cone. Fault goes out 10ft or farther and radiates from the target.
I think another way to determine what is an AoE and a PBAoE is if you can slot for range or not.
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To be honest they should have given us fire. That would have worked out better than this so long as we keep fire sword circle and get rid of scorch.
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You realize if they did this they would get rid of Fire Sword Circle and leave you only with Breath of Fire for AoE, right? By default, PBAoEs are the first thing to be removed from Stalker ports.
[/ QUOTE ]I dont know about this, they almost did this to elec but then we explained to them we already had enough single target damage and how hand clap wouldnt help us so they changed. My hope is that they get rid of one of the single target attacks since we get AS. If they dont give us FSC then I just wouldnt play the set. It wouldnt be worth it to me. Just think of the crits from hide on that thing.
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You can be sure, if Thunder Strike had been centered around you, it would had been removed no matter how much people whined. I can see Castle going after Thunder Strike in a port, but also can see many reasons to keep it since it has more in relation with a cone than with a PBAoE (requires target, cant be used if your perception is debuffed or against stealthed targets.) Just look at Martial Arts, and Energy Melee, both were entirely stripped off AoE capabilities despite having utility powers that could had been removed instead. They just did not want freely activated PBAoEs on the stalkers. With Spines they would had been forced to replace two powers, though, something they were likely with no time to do.
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Spine Burst, Thunderstrike...
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Spine Burst survived because they remove Damage Auras even faster, but its the only offensive melee set with a damage aura so that wont happen again.
Electric's Thunderstrike is a targeted AoE. The PBAoE was Lightning Clap, and it got removed.
[/ QUOTE ]Thunderstrike isnt a TAoE its a PBAoE. lighting clap was removed because it sucked for stalker playstyle.
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You should forget what IOs say, remember they didnt show up in the game until recently.
Targeted AoEs exist, its a game mechanic that is all too real. The same goes for Cones, another very real mechanic. The devs just found themselves with way too many damage categories to keep making IOs for, they had 5 already and still were lacking Melee AoE and Cone, they just decided to treat PBAoE as MAoE and fit cones on either ranged or PBAoE depending on their reach.
The end point is, and you can try to find one case that is not true: they always removed powers that were AoE and required no target to activate, even in Electric Melee (although that set had a chance to be different since Castle was doing it, not the previous guy.) Spines just got lucky they had two options to remove and the devs decided to remove the one that would constantly break hide.
How is there even an argument? Probably because people are mixing terms from different perspectives together.
Players described something like Headsplitter in various guides as a Targeted AoE because it required a target and is AoE. The game says it takes PBAoE sets and it doesn't even bother to mention it's AoE potential at all. Something like Crowd Control though it will call it a "Melee (cone)" which you won't see anywhere else in say IO sets etc.
You can't just mash one term from IO sets into what is obviously a target required power and say, "THERFORE SI NOAT Targetted AoE IN ALL FINGS, NYAR!"
Still waiting on ice melee stalkers as well. Can't wait to get one. 
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How is there even an argument? Probably because people are mixing terms from different perspectives together.
Players described something like Headsplitter in various guides as a Targeted AoE because it required a target and is AoE. The game says it takes PBAoE sets and it doesn't even bother to mention it's AoE potential at all. Something like Crowd Control though it will call it a "Melee (cone)" which you won't see anywhere else in say IO sets etc.
You can't just mash one term from IO sets into what is obviously a target required power and say, "THERFORE SI NOAT Targetted AoE IN ALL FINGS, NYAR!"
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it's a Targeted Player Based Area of Effect, so NYAR!
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Still waiting on ice melee stalkers as well. Can't wait to get one.
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Same...but I like anything Water based based anywho.
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Still waiting on ice melee stalkers as well. Can't wait to get one.
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Same...but I like anything Water based based anywho.
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but you're a cactus >_>
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Still waiting on ice melee stalkers as well. Can't wait to get one.
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Same...but I like anything Water based based anywho.
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but you're a cactus >_>
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A cactus is all about water...
Yeah yeah yeah... Stalkers get broadsword when they wanted fire or ice. Scrappers are getting elec when they wanted EM or SS. Its funny how "the grass is greener on the other side" is in full swing about the power port subject. Scrappers think elec and ela are going to be sub par and stalkers are getting the goods. And stalkers are saying the same thing about BS. As far as what's gonna be true, Ill just make my judgement in test.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Yeah yeah yeah... Stalkers get broadsword when they wanted fire or ice. Scrappers are getting elec when they wanted EM or SS. Its funny how "the grass is greener on the other side" is in full swing about the power port subject. Scrappers think elec and ela are going to be sub par and stalkers are getting the goods. And stalkers are saying the same thing about BS. As far as what's gonna be true, Ill just make my judgement in test.
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Funny, because I read the Scrapper boards and while yeah there are posters that say they want EM, they're also usually saying "I want it all(paraphrased)" so in essence, it's not that they *don't* want Elec melee, it's that they want Elec melee AND EM, SS, Axe, etc.
Besides that, they can't complain it's another smash/lethal set either. Also, the only place to get Electric Melee on that side is Blasters and Defenders so it's a whole new set.
I don't need to wait until test to make my judgement. I've tried BS and Katana on Scrappers and I've tried 'Ninja Blade' on Stalkers. The only thing I'm in the dark about is the animations. Will Babs make a cool, interesting AS for the set? Will he change BS attacks to not look like a guy swatting flies with a metal stick?
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Yeah yeah yeah... Stalkers get broad sword when they wanted fire or ice. Scrappers are getting elec when they wanted EM or SS. Its funny how "the grass is greener on the other side" is in full swing about the power port subject. Scrappers think elec and ela are going to be sub par and stalkers are getting the goods. And stalkers are saying the same thing about BS. As far as what's gonna be true, Ill just make my judgment in test.
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Funny, because I read the Scrapper boards and while yeah there are posters that say they want EM, they're also usually saying "I want it all(paraphrased)" so in essence, it's not that they *don't* want Elec melee, it's that they want Elec melee AND EM, SS, Axe, etc.
Besides that, they can't complain it's another smash/lethal set either. Also, the only place to get Electric Melee on that side is Blasters and Defenders so it's a whole new set.
I don't need to wait until test to make my judgement. I've tried BS and Katana on Scrappers and I've tried 'Ninja Blade' on Stalkers. The only thing I'm in the dark about is the animations. Will Babs make a cool, interesting AS for the set? Will he change BS attacks to not look like a guy swatting flies with a metal stick?
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Then you should know certain sets play differently on stalkers then they do on the other melee ATs. And what villain other then a MMs henchmen use a broadsword? Looks to me that stalkers are getting something new as well. One of the top big hitters at that. BaB said the AS will be a 2 second wined up then sword stab. You can call fail if you want. I'm still waiting till test. Swatting flies with a metal stick was funny though. Lol
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Except that BS is functionally the same as Ninja blade except with different recharge/damage/end values and animation differences.
There is nothing in the broadsword set that isn't present in Ninja Blade.
As for BaB's description of the AS, well guess what they all look like that, wind up and then stab, like i can with Ninja Blade,Like I can with DB, Like I can with Claws.
BS isn't going to offer much difference in play style for anyone that's used Ninja Blade.
This is a particularly weak proliferation.
But I guess because BS is so similar to NB it didn't need much balance wise.
It depends how they treat the set. If they go with the trend established recently for Claws, the narrow cone that is expected to hit just one foe may get turned into plain ST attacks making the set a bit distinct, not to mention that power always crit from hide.
But yea, other than animations expect a slower version of Ninja that hits a bit harder. Then again, that may be a huge difference in gameplay for stalkers, as they are all about heavy hitting attacks when stealth.
Got to admit, for uniqueness, I would had liked to see Mace instead of Broad Sword.
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One of the top big hitters at that.
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And Stalkers already have Energy Melee for this.
But BS gives better mitigation than EM...
Well we have Katana for *that*.
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Swatting flies with a metal stick was funny though.
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If I'm not mistaken, a couple (not all) of the animations in BS are old copies of some animations from Axe/Mace. However, you do not swing a sword like you swing those weapons. You use wide sweeps to make use of the long cutting edge of a sword. You hammer with a heavy blunt object which is similar enough to chopping if you sub in an axe. I stand by my fly swatter statement.
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It depends how they treat the set. If they go with the trend established recently for Claws, the narrow cone that is expected to hit just one foe may get turned into plain ST attacks making the set a bit distinct, not to mention that power always crit from hide.
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Except that they wouldn't really give Headsplitter the "Eviscerate Treatment", which was both the 100% crit AND more base damage. It would be the "Eagle's Claw" treatment. Same damage. Just the 100% crit.
Meh. I know there are those who would disagree. 1vs3 soloists (booring!) and PvPers would likely prefer the 100% crit even if it didn't come with more damage attached. I'd rather keep the cone. But that's just me.
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Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
I see no reason why Headsplitter should be treated differently than Golden Dragonfly.
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And Stalkers already have Energy Melee for this.
But BS gives better mitigation than EM...
Well we have Katana for *that*.
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And an in-between, although not sounding extremely epic, can be a HUGE difference. Thats not to note, it would still retain one cone, thing EM does not have.
Good thing about BS: Hack at level 1. Oh yeah!
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Good thing about BS: Hack at level 1. Oh yeah!
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Stalkers across the land were jerk Hacking and dupin' rares. They were... gone to the Americans.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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Except that BS is functionally the same as Ninja blade except with different recharge/damage/end values and animation differences.
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I understand what you're trying to get at, and even agree with it, but you do realize how silly this statement is, right?
"It's the same thing, they just changed the animations, endurance cost, damage, and recharge!" There's not a lot left to change in a melee set; consider: Swipe and Eviscerate are the same thing, they just changed the animation, endurance cost, dmaage, and recharge!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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No complaints from me. I would enjoy a nice wallop of BU+AS+Placate+Headsplitter. If it's not an AV/Hero and not tdead by then, I'm running.
Ware ni tatenu mono mashi!!
[There are none before me who have not been cleaved!!]