Is it possible for Eagle Claw...
By
Aitchuu,
Posted on: 2009-07-15 13:55 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
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Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
I remember suggesting that a while back but rather than land near the enemy, you land back where you started. So the attack would have been essentially a 30-40ft ranged attack with your body as the projectile.
Then I learned projectiles are the particle effects and those were hard-baked into the powers 
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I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
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Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
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Oh my god, Castle replied to my thread!! Yahoo!!!!
(ok, calm down)
Ok, so basically, if we want to make Eagle Claw special, the person would have to shoot something out to make a semi-range attack like Bane's Shatter where there is a little shockwave at the end to make it a single-target 10' range attack.
Oh well, I guess this idea won't work unless we make Eagle Claw a 4' radius aoe attack that functions like Lightning Rod.
Thanks anyway.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I remember suggesting that a while back but rather than land near the enemy, you land back where you started. So the attack would have been essentially a 30-40ft ranged attack with your body as the projectile.
Then I learned projectiles are the particle effects and those were hard-baked into the powers
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I thought about this as well but the whole attack may take like 3-4s to activate. lol
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Also, imagine launching your "self projectile" at a warwolf or other speedy target and ending up halfway across the map.
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Ok, so basically, if we want to make Eagle Claw special, the person would have to shoot something out to make a semi-range attack like Bane's Shatter where there is a little shockwave at the end to make it a single-target 10' range attack.
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Well IMO a cool animation for that could be keep the normal EC animation but as it's activating an image of your body in the form of energy or something shoots out doing the same motion as you except it lands on a target X amount of ft away vanishing as it hits. So it would seem like you're flying at the target when really it's just a energy form...Who knows now that I think about it my idea would pretty difficult >_>
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Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
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Ever thought about doing it another way?
Have a click power that for a short period (5 seconds) buffs your run speed, gives you a repel aura, a high damage but short range damage aura and Bob's your uncle?
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Heheh. Did you just describe a Fire/Kin with Siphon Speed, Repel, and Hot Feet?
I team with the Repeat Offenders.
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Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
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Just to eliminate the possibility Castle ... what about a combo teleport to target+EC kick effect in order to achieve the necessary range+animation effect? I'm presuming that such a combination was considered and would just like verification that there's no way it could work (the way you'd want it to) for the 20-30' distance proposed above.
I'm sure BABs could work up a 0.5 second "launch" animation that would work for with that without breaking a sweat, but the real question is whether or not the game engine that controls what is "allowed" to happen would be able to stretch that far without some serious kludging/hacking.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
what about something simple like once the power is activate a "forced run" (withthe forced part ending after you reach the target destination). Since moement control is taken from the player the run can transition into a flying kick
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-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Have a click power that for a short period (5 seconds) buffs your run speed, gives you a repel aura, a high damage but short range damage aura and Bob's your uncle?
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I can imagine lots of ugly timing issues with that. If the ticks go off wrong, you're knocking the enemy away without damaging them, damaging them without knocking them away... It also can't have an animation (as that would be overwritten with the run animation), and it can cause control issues if the speed's too high. Not a bad idea, but I can see problems happening pretty easily.
We'll always have Paragon.
Too much Anime on the brain - you start any match with a maneuver that involves roundhouse or flying and your opponent records his fastest win ever by spiking you off the floor mat like the volleyball you are!
Luckily the game is more forgiving and you can already do what you are suggesting in fact, its Kids signature move.
At a good distance pick the leader out of any pack. Press F and queue your attack (the Crane Kick is far better for this). Just before your toon closes to melee distance, press the space bar and you will 1) vault over your opponent, 2) spin around, and 3) punt him back into the arms of your teammates. Follow with a Dragons Tail to scatter his mob (which serves as a back-up punt in case the first strike actually missed somehow).
You will do enough damage to take your targets agro so when he gets up, he will ignore all the damage your teammates apply and come charging. As you are still following, the Dragons Tail will freeze you in place, giving you time to assess the damage done so far. Focus Chi while your toon closes the gap, and apply your finishing move. If you hit the space bar again just before you attack, you will vault back so you are facing the mob you just scattered so you can begin cleaning up.
Just call me "The Pool Guy" - cause I believe that power pools are the ultimate in powerset proliferation. Fewer powers to develop and available to all.
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this isnt quite on topic of making a ranged eagles claw, but...
I suggested once or twice instead of major overhauls, the MA set gets some activation time rework instead.
Think of this, when you use storm kick, your character does the spin kick, and then ends in the "i am a baddass" pose. The character will keep that pose, as it is part of the animation.
However, it is not in the activation time. If you say, use thunder kick, then storm kick, then crane kick, your character will skip the pose part of the animation, because the activation time is shorter then the animation is.
So, lets apply this to crane kick, and eagles claw. if you want to watch the full animation of eighther attack, you can. if you are in the middle of a fight, you dont need to, you can chain some attacks and skip a little on the end of the animations. if eagles claw allowed another animation to start while your character was "falling" back to the ground, it could look totally freegin awsome, and would improve its DPA without ruining its badass-ery animation. jump in air, POW!, flip and as you start coming back down, THUNDER KICK IN FACE!
this change would improve MA DPA and DPS both, by allowing eagles claw to be worked into an attack chain without killing its speed, AND it would still keep the much loved OMG KICK animation.
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I fully support this, but only if it's called 'Rider Kick' and enemies that you defeat with it immediately explode with signature 70s Japanese pyrotechnics. >
I'm sure you covered this base, but what about 'teleport' to enemy like what the malta do? They teleport and attack at virtually the same time, the difference here would be to not have the flashy thing for teleport. IE. Master Ching just did a flying side kick so fast he 'blinked' from view. I think it might work.
Don't Malta Teleporters go through that teleport animation when they exit the teleport, though? They kind of lean back with their arms stretched out and then 'blink' out. Don't they do the same when they return?
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I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
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Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
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And I for one am thankful it didn't. Eagle's Claw is just great the way that it is.
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Don't Malta Teleporters go through that teleport animation when they exit the teleport, though? They kind of lean back with their arms stretched out and then 'blink' out. Don't they do the same when they return?
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It shouldn't be hard to edit the tp animation. I believe that characters exhibit a different behavior when entering/exiting a WS's tp portal. the tp portal alone is techinically part of the animation so that should be enough justification of possibility.
the problem i see with this is tping to a foe in a crowd and near a wall. the crowd prevents you from tping right next to your target and you pop out the wall.
Second problem that same crowd could make you appear at a different angle to the target so you'd leap up and land facing backwards to the way you started not especially bad but a little awkward.
If you combine EC with TP you can get generally the same effect if it weren't for the lag time after a TP where you can't perform any action.
being able to que up a power (red ring it) then click a travel power would be nice. TP is generally not useful in fights like SJ SS or fly. I suppose it works alright for tanks and some blasters but i usually only see it used for entering a fight perhaps a mild rework to tp would see it become a bit more prevalent within the community.
Roxy On DA...Finally!
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I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
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Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
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Such powers only work as a Location AoE?
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Also, imagine launching your "self projectile" at a warwolf or other speedy target and ending up halfway across the map.
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Want this so bad now. Khaaaaaaaaaaan!!!
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I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
[/ QUOTE ]
Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I for one am thankful it didn't. Eagle's Claw is just great the way that it is.
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I think Castle meant "we tried to do Shield Charge this way [i.e., an actual running charge into melee], but had to settle for the teleport solution." I don't think he's specifically saying they tried to do this for Eagle's Claw, I think he's just using it as an example.
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I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
[/ QUOTE ]
Something like this is what Shield Charge was meant to be. Alas, despite a LOT of work from Sunstorm, BABs and myself, there ended up not being a way to get this functionality to work.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I for one am thankful it didn't. Eagle's Claw is just great the way that it is.
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I think Castle meant "we tried to do Shield Charge this way [i.e., an actual running charge into melee], but had to settle for the teleport solution." I don't think he's specifically saying they tried to do this for Eagle's Claw, I think he's just using it as an example.
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Shield Charge reminds me of Pally in DiabloII and WoW Warriors who charge at you and stun. A very typical concept but this game doesn't seem to support that. Teleport + Charge is cooler though. Not many games have teleport and attack?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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this isnt quite on topic of making a ranged eagles claw, but...
I suggested once or twice instead of major overhauls, the MA set gets some activation time rework instead.
Think of this, when you use storm kick, your character does the spin kick, and then ends in the "i am a baddass" pose. The character will keep that pose, as it is part of the animation.
However, it is not in the activation time. If you say, use thunder kick, then storm kick, then crane kick, your character will skip the pose part of the animation, because the activation time is shorter then the animation is.
So, lets apply this to crane kick, and eagles claw. if you want to watch the full animation of eighther attack, you can. if you are in the middle of a fight, you dont need to, you can chain some attacks and skip a little on the end of the animations. if eagles claw allowed another animation to start while your character was "falling" back to the ground, it could look totally freegin awsome, and would improve its DPA without ruining its badass-ery animation. jump in air, POW!, flip and as you start coming back down, THUNDER KICK IN FACE!
this change would improve MA DPA and DPS both, by allowing eagles claw to be worked into an attack chain without killing its speed, AND it would still keep the much loved OMG KICK animation.
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That's not exactly how it works. First of all, most attack animations have a rooted portion that cannot be interrupted (normally), but transition to a non-rooted animation that is interruptible and can be interrupted by another power activation. When attacks return to a "stance" that's basically what's happening: the stance is generally not part of the attack's animation per se, but it is part of the animation sequence that is triggered by that power. Activation time (cast time) essentially plays no role in how animations play or don't play.
Second, if my understanding of the animation engine is accurate, you can't just allow thunder kick (for example) to activate right in the middle of eagle's claw, because the character won't just execute a thunder kick in mid air, the character will jump to the beginning of the thunder kick animation which will probably skip them back to the ground instantly. The current game engine doesn't support skeletal animation blending, and this won't appear visually correct.
Finally, I asked BaB if there were any opportunities to shave animation frames here and there from MA and the result is the MA set as it is now. Ironically, the current MA times would have made MA into a good single target performer relative to other melee primaries, except for the fact that BaB redid *all* the melee animation times and put MA back into the middle as a result (in particular, turning Katana from mediocre into a monster in one jump).
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this isnt quite on topic of making a ranged eagles claw, but...
I suggested once or twice instead of major overhauls, the MA set gets some activation time rework instead.
Think of this, when you use storm kick, your character does the spin kick, and then ends in the "i am a baddass" pose. The character will keep that pose, as it is part of the animation.
However, it is not in the activation time. If you say, use thunder kick, then storm kick, then crane kick, your character will skip the pose part of the animation, because the activation time is shorter then the animation is.
So, lets apply this to crane kick, and eagles claw. if you want to watch the full animation of eighther attack, you can. if you are in the middle of a fight, you dont need to, you can chain some attacks and skip a little on the end of the animations. if eagles claw allowed another animation to start while your character was "falling" back to the ground, it could look totally freegin awsome, and would improve its DPA without ruining its badass-ery animation. jump in air, POW!, flip and as you start coming back down, THUNDER KICK IN FACE!
this change would improve MA DPA and DPS both, by allowing eagles claw to be worked into an attack chain without killing its speed, AND it would still keep the much loved OMG KICK animation.
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That's not exactly how it works. First of all, most attack animations have a rooted portion that cannot be interrupted (normally), but transition to a non-rooted animation that is interruptible and can be interrupted by another power activation. When attacks return to a "stance" that's basically what's happening: the stance is generally not part of the attack's animation per se, but it is part of the animation sequence that is triggered by that power. Activation time (cast time) essentially plays no role in how animations play or don't play.
Second, if my understanding of the animation engine is accurate, you can't just allow thunder kick (for example) to activate right in the middle of eagle's claw, because the character won't just execute a thunder kick in mid air, the character will jump to the beginning of the thunder kick animation which will probably skip them back to the ground instantly. The current game engine doesn't support skeletal animation blending, and this won't appear visually correct.
Finally, I asked BaB if there were any opportunities to shave animation frames here and there from MA and the result is the MA set as it is now. Ironically, the current MA times would have made MA into a good single target performer relative to other melee primaries, except for the fact that BaB redid *all* the melee animation times and put MA back into the middle as a result (in particular, turning Katana from mediocre into a monster in one jump).
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So in your opinion, do you think MA is a bit under-performing right now even after the changes? I know MA is not unplayable.
I am mostly concerned with MA on Stalker because Scrapper at least gets an aoe knockback/down to protect themselves when they get swarmed but Stalker's MA doesn't get any aoe at all. Stalker MA just seems kinda pointless in comparison to DM and EM.
I mean combos on Dual Blade Stalker kinda suck but they made 1K Cuts better for Stalker to make up for it. It seems MA doesn't excel in anything but "style".
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I've suggested this a few times already but I don't even know if this game even allow a real Jump and Kick to happen.
What I mean is making Eagle Claw a 20'-30' range attack but instead of shooting something out of your legs (like Focus), you actually Fly, Kick and LAND near the target.
The only thing that is close to this idea is Lightning Rod type of power but you actually have to select an area first.
I think it will be a fantastic buffing idea for Martial Arts as it lacks any real advantage over Dark Melee and Energy Melee as ST Damage Set, and it fits the theme very well too.
What do you guys think?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.