Fix Electric Armour?

Im seeing people are starting to get electric armour is messed up right now. Im more into PvP with mine and the problems are glaring in zones. I noticed a few posts in the fix EA thread about elec, thought I might get the ball rolling. What are the problems? and how do we fix them? (alternatively Who is your daddy? And what does he do?)

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My idea:

revamp CP to include an enhanceable heal/+HP component (lesser version of Dull Pain) while halving the endurance discount portion.

Supplement by Umbral:
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That would actually seem rather interesting. It wouldn't really break Cottage Rule, but it would definitely merit some degree of name change for the power (not that powers of the same name have to be the same). It might actually be better to contemplate making it a +recov/+hp/+heal power. Think mixing Dull Pain and Quick Recovery.

Basic numbers to think of would be 10% enhanceable +hp, 10% unenhanceable, 30% enhanceable heal, and 15% +recovery all on a 4 minute cooldown with a 60 second duration. The +hp is half of Dull Pain's, the heal is 75%, the +recov is half of Quick Recovery's, and the basic uptime ratio is 25% rather than 33%. The heal is, itself, better over time than Dull Pains would be, meshing well with the +res of the set, but the +recharge requirements to get it permanent would be a good deal higher to make up for the diverse attributes.

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For more background discussion, this has already been talked about at some length in the EA thread. Yes in a different context, but those interested in the existing thought on the subject might look there.

As far as I can tell, it started with SF's suggestion in post #11725585 of that thread, with the suggestion of a +max end power instead of CP. From there might I suggest the next few pages as reading material.

As far as I know, post #11735623 is the first time we talked about putting +health +end in /EA and /Ele, but I could be sorely mistaken on that count. I am relatively certain that it's been talked about SOMEWHERE before...

Some key points of discussion raised in that thread included the need to preserve stamanaless operation. An Ele or EA can do without fitness now, partly because of CP. Whatever goes in there should maintain that option.

Also keep in mind that much of the discussion in the EA thread happened before changes to that powerset.

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The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

yeah saw that thread and the Ela stuff after starting this. Thinkin now that Ela could use a stickied thread about fixin.

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My idea:

revamp CP to include an enhanceable heal/+HP component (lesser version of Dull Pain) while halving the endurance discount portion.

Supplement by Umbral:
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That would actually seem rather interesting. It wouldn't really break Cottage Rule, but it would definitely merit some degree of name change for the power (not that powers of the same name have to be the same). It might actually be better to contemplate making it a +recov/+hp/+heal power. Think mixing Dull Pain and Quick Recovery.

Basic numbers to think of would be 10% enhanceable +hp, 10% unenhanceable, 30% enhanceable heal, and 15% +recovery all on a 4 minute cooldown with a 60 second duration. The +hp is half of Dull Pain's, the heal is 75%, the +recov is half of Quick Recovery's, and the basic uptime ratio is 25% rather than 33%. The heal is, itself, better over time than Dull Pains would be, meshing well with the +res of the set, but the +recharge requirements to get it permanent would be a good deal higher to make up for the diverse attributes.

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Why would we want this? So when the power is NOT up, we can do just as poorly as we do now? No thanks.

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Yeah I have posted everywhere about this recently ELA needs a fix. +HP/+regen/heal something anything! I do think personally that the S/L resistance could be beefed up a little since most late game foes are mainly s/l damage types. And don't get me started on trying to do a ITF with him being the only melee type in the team with no real buffs. >.< (ITF seems rough on him) everything else seems that he can do well but the +HP +regen I think would be beneficial for electric armor.

I do agree CP seems worthless really.

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Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute

Conserve Power is straight up useless. Even if you wanted to skip Stamina, you need Health badly anyway. Stamina > Conserve Power.

I made an elec/elec brute day one Issue 7 and I've never had or needed it.

I wouldn't mind it being a minor version of RTTC or like the Freakshow's reconstruction (maybe a shockyourselfbacktolife rez! /sighs).

Ideas I'm a big fan of: +regen in grounded (yes, while on the ground) and +def and def debuff resistance in lightning reflexes.

It feels like too many sets these days are getting +HP (Shields, WP, etc.)... yet still want some love here.

Keep beating the drums guys!

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Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.

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Ideas I'm a big fan of: +regen in grounded (yes, while on the ground) and +def and def debuff resistance in lightning reflexes.

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Yea, I like the idea of +regen in Grounded, and having it only working while you're "on the ground" and all. I think if it had the same (if not more) regen stats of "at least" Fast Healing, it'd be great.


I like the idea of some +res to defense debuffs, but I'm not too keen on the defense in LR, unless it was a pretty substantial value (12-16% base all), I don't think it'd help much. Instead, I'd rather see a "Dull Pain" like clone power replace Conserve Power altogether.


And, if not any of that...maybe the dev's could at least greatly "amp up" the endurance draining levels of ELA, so that end drain can truely be an "effective" means of damage mitigation. But that would require moving Power Sink to lvl 28 (like EA's Energy Drain), as well as upping Lightning Fields -end, and adding ALOT more -recovery to those powers in general. Even then, I'm not sure if that'd be a good solution...so I'm more for the buffs mentioned above

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Ideas I'm a big fan of: +regen in grounded (yes, while on the ground) and +def and def debuff resistance in lightning reflexes.

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Yea, I like the idea of +regen in Grounded, and having it only working while you're "on the ground" and all. I think if it had the same (if not more) regen stats of "at least" Fast Healing, it'd be great.


I like the idea of some +res to defense debuffs, but I'm not too keen on the defense in LR, unless it was a pretty substantial value (12-16% base all), I don't think it'd help much. Instead, I'd rather see a "Dull Pain" like clone power replace Conserve Power altogether.


And, if not any of that...maybe the dev's could at least greatly "amp up" the endurance draining levels of ELA, so that end drain can truely be an "effective" means of damage mitigation. But that would require moving Power Sink to lvl 28 (like EA's Energy Drain), as well as upping Lightning Fields -end, and adding ALOT more -recovery to those powers in general. Even then, I'm not sure if that'd be a good solution...so I'm more for the buffs mentioned above

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The Devs give us end drain as a form of mitigation, and it only works on even level enemies.. It also goes against the reason they said brutes aren't getting ice armor. It will slow down the rate of attack, thus decreasing fury. Thats exactly what end drain does. Good Job devs.

Actual set buff plz.

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Why would we want this? So when the power is NOT up, we can do just as poorly as we do now? No thanks.

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Are you serious? It's increases your HP which is the same as providing +resis, and it would be very similar to Dull Pain.

I don't know about you but going from 1700 HP to 2200-2500 HP is pretty damn effective. Not to mention people can already perma-DP.

Now, do you have a suggestion or you just here to be a negative nancy?

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I believe he was just pointing out the fact that CP has one of the most ridiculous recharges available to Brutes. I haven't personally tried to get the numbers, but a minute and a half duration effect with a 600s base recharge is...disturbing...

My suggestion(s):

Lightning Reflexes: +5% Defense (All). Of course, you lose this bonus when you leave the ground. It makes sense that moving faster = harder to hit, yes?

Conserve Power: Ugh. Would rather lose it then use it. IF it were to be dropped for, say, Short Circuit? Might be overkill, but that still doesn't remedy the "end drain scales down per enemy level above you" problem. Pulling it from the two sets it's in would allow it to become a Patron power...

Power Sink: Adding a 5% per target heal to this would be good. It wouldn't be on par with Fire's heal, which is burly button, but it definitely adds to the set.

Just my thoughts...

Edit: I can has numbers? Made two builds, both Ele/Ela, trying for good recharge. The first was a standard build which pulled ~142 recharge with hasten, and that could bring Conserve Power up every 175s. The second was a lulz build with 192.5% recharge, which brought CP up every 150s.

So you CAN get it down pretty low but...is it really worth slotting everything to hell for recharge?

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And now, for your amusement, I provide:

More stupid Electric Armor fixes!<ul type="square">[*]Scaling resistance in the two passives, values set identical to the values in CT and Foresight (which are higher than the SR values).[*]Replace Power Sink with Eclipse - it wouldn't break the cottage rule since it's also an endurance refill! [*]Add +regen to Conserve Power. I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of another level 28 power that's a click regen buff with similar duration and slightly higher recharge...[*]Charged Armor provides a shock for each time you're hit in melee, 10% of the damage dealt back to the mob. They are essentially sticking their hand into a light socket! (note: this one can also work to help Fiery Aura)[*]Add a Thunderous Blast effect to the crash on Power Surge in addition to the EMP, so that the crash is less of a deterrent.[*]Passive global 1000% interrupt enhancement to Lightning Reflexes - your reflexes are quick enough you can use that tricorder anywhere.[*]Add 30% chance of -100% recovery for 5 seconds to Lightning Field.[/list]
That should provide enough comedy fodder for a while, anyway. Too bad Steelclaw hasn't posted on the subject...

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Are you suggesting all the ideas in this thread are stupid?

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Are you suggesting all the ideas in this thread are stupid?

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No, just suggesting that the ones I'm providing are (it started with my scaling resistance suggestion in the other thread).

I wouldn't mind seeing them, though. That third one in particular seems as if it would address a lot of shortcomings to me.

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The thing is, there's a fine balance between balancing and fixing. Said fine line is easily crossed, overshot, and completely bypassed with simple suggestions. How much is too much, etc.

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Oh don't get me wrong: Me likey Dull Pain! It just feels like overshooting the runway to ask for it lol.

CP's recharge/duration feels based on pre-Enhancement Diversity. 600 recharge/90 duration could be up within seconds of being perma (permahasten + 6 52 Recharge SOs). It needs to be rethought somewhat (perhaps lowered to a 60 second buff but is up every 200-300 seconds). I'd like that change for CP globally actually.

Instead of CP for Electric Armor: perhaps a "Stored Power" button: You click it and your regen and rec are greatly improved for 90 seconds, but you crash for 10 seconds at the end where both are completely stopped. Remove all or part of the recovery bonus from Power Surge to compensate.

Stored Power: Recharge 360. Duration 90. Endurance Cost: 15.6. Effects: Hit Points + 10 percent, Regeneration +100 percent, Recovery +20 percent. Recovery can't be enhanced and only 50 percent of the hit points/heal can be improved (capping around 150 regen and 15 hit points boosted). *-1000 regen and recovery after a 90-second delay.

Thoughts?

Sidenote: ... has the EMP at the end of PS ever consistently worked?

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Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.

Sio, if it makes you feel better... I love your ideas. They are creative and interesting. Not sure how good they are in terms of balance when applied all at once... but I would love to see more than one of those changes take effect. Especially the charged armor and lightning reflexes changes. ^_^

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Given that electric tanks are coming in I16, and that an electric tank as the set now stands would be essentially a farce, I think we might see some movement on this.

Add in the long standing question about two CPs and you've potentially got a number of answers in the pipe.

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The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

I can count the number of times I've actually seen the Surge EMP burst have any effect on one hand, and that's in years of having my Brute (And living in Surge end-game!)

I don't know about storing energy, it seems like too drastic of a change away from CP. Also, even if you had the money to do so, would you really perma-CP? Is it even really worth it, when IOs take care of just about all end problems?

I'd put money on Castle shaking his head in exasperation every time he looked at Fire, Electric, and Energy armors...such good ideas, executed so...so...

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Given that electric tanks are coming in I16...

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Source please?

And yes, dropping the set into Tanks raises an entirely new barrel of simians.

1) Take two Conserve Powers
2) Run both (With slight overlap?)
3) ???? (We'll assume, spam them butt-good)
4) Profit!

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http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/gam..._overview.html

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...Scrappers and Tankers get ready to fry their foes with Electric Melee and Electric Armor...

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Thank you.

I honestly can't think of a reply...at least this might mean more people whining alongside us.

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I really hope the Devs think to make some changes when they see that Heroes will be able to get 2 CPs with Elec Armor....

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The thing is, there's a fine balance between balancing and fixing. Said fine line is easily crossed, overshot, and completely bypassed with simple suggestions. How much is too much, etc.

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Oh, I don't think that most of those suggestions are balanced. The one I think is closest is the Lightning Field -recovery, but that can shut down a mob from ever attacking you given how quickly you can drain them.

The one that I think is farthest out in left field is tacking on Instant Healing to Conserve Power, followed by Eclipse replacing Power Sink. But you have to admit that Instant Healing would definately address most everyone's issues with Electric Armor, and being permanently at the resistance cap to all damage through Eclipse would come close...

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I'm just really curious to see what they do with CP

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The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!