So what is /Shields weakness?

Is there really any NPCs that counter shields? Do they have a weakness? Can anyone give me some feedback?

---

I would say the same critters that normally problems to other defense sets but less so due to the damage resist aspects of the set.

---

Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components

Tempus unum hominem manet

Shield's weakness is it can't be paired with every primary. Having to wear a shield is also annoying to me. I'd rather they just rename the set "über", give it no graphics and allow every primary to use it, without any other change, I'd play it and probably wouldn't play anything else anymore.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Is there really any NPCs that counter shields? Do they have a weakness? Can anyone give me some feedback?

[/ QUOTE ]

don't think Shields have as much defense debuff resistance

---

DDR is capped if you use HOs.

(On tankers. I think scrappers/brutes hit 90% or so.)

---

[ QUOTE ]
Is there really any NPCs that counter shields? Do they have a weakness? Can anyone give me some feedback?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, I'll take a stab at it. I have a 50 elec/shield brute and a 50 fire/shield scrapper.

* The set is rather lackluster with SO slotting. Yeah, really. In fact, with just SOs, the set is actually somewhat underpowered.

* The set shines with IOs, but to get a soft capped build with good offense = very expensive. Possibly some of the most expensive scrapper builds out there are shield builds.

* No self heal (like SR, Inv, WP (sorta))

* No scaling damage resists like SR. You do have moderate amounts (18% for scrappers/brutes) of lethal/smash/fire/cold, etc. resistance, but only if you enhance it. Base value is around 11% which isn't enough. That means that anything that gets past shields tend to hurt alot.

* Endurance heavy. Or it can be without good slotting. Personally, I was sucking wind until I got into IO slotting.

That said, the NPCs that can give trouble to defense sets can give trouble to shields:

Devouring Earth
CoT Earth Casters
Cimeroran Traitors
Malta - their guns debuff defense quite a bit

Overall though, it's a power gamer's set. Well built, a shields character can be designed to offset many of the weaknesses I mention and the addition of a +dmg toggle and shield charge makes the set offensively strong.

---

[ QUOTE ]
DDR is capped if you use HOs.

(On tankers. I think scrappers/brutes hit 90% or so.)

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, wasn't sure, haven't played my Shield/DM in a while

---

[ QUOTE ]
* No self heal (like SR, Inv, WP (sorta))

[/ QUOTE ]

Invulnerability has Dull Pain.

---

The no Self heal is probably the part that you'll feel the most. I know that if my scrapper wasn't DM/shield I would probably go outta my way to get aidself.

With just generic slotting (which is what I use) I kind of classify shield as the same as fire defense. The set offers you more offense ability while sacrificing a small amount of defense that other sets may have.

If you like to play really aggressive then I'd say you'll like the set, but if you're someone who lets the battle draw out, you'll prob find it a lot harder.

---

Wait, shields can't be uber. When it was introduced, it was universally bemoaned as the weakest defense set.

What happened?

---

Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, shields can't be uber. When it was introduced, it was universally bemoaned as the weakest defense set.

What happened?

[/ QUOTE ]

People actually played the set and learned what the hell they were talking about instead of spouting off based off 10 levels of play.

Anyway, shields is all positional defense, isn't it? Aren't there some mobs with non-positional attacks?

---

Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

Opinions change. I know my Shield/ SS tank is my favorite and my BS/ Shield scrapper is pretty darn good too.


To the OP: Playstyle for SHield and Fire Armor seem to be the same IMO at the lower lvls. Kill them before they kill you. While both FA and Shield benefit greatly by IO set bonuses and additional powers (tough, weave, manuevers, combat jumping, stealth, or heck even temp powers), Shield pulls ahead. Although the lack of a self-heal in the Shield set is a drawback, it does have 1 thing FA does not--- +HP, 2 sources in fact. Easier to cap HP = easier to have higher Regen #'s.

As for the end usage of Shield, it has been demonstrated that it is middle of the line for tanker sets. Biggest end drain at 1 time is Active Defense. With enough recharge it can be double stacked for a good bit if not made permanent and, with the additional use of HOs, get really good def debuff too.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Aren't there some mobs with non-positional attacks?

[/ QUOTE ]A few types of Longbow Warden, Carnie Illusionists, anything with Dominate...

---

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

A large portion of Shield's defense is being able to wipe out groups of minions in one go. If you're fighting all bosses (like during an ITF), or AVs, it's not always the best choice. It does stand up pretty well, but it doesn't have as many boons for those situations as sets like Willpower or Invuln.

---

My biggest issue with shield defense is the lack of powers that affect the enemy and what I like to consider "utility powers," excluding the tier 9.

There are no powers that increase your regeneration, recovery, speed, or recharge. There's no heal. There's no endurance recovery click power. There's no rez.

There's no damage aura. The taunt aura is +Dam (Self), -Dam (Foe), which pales in comparison to pretty much every other taunt aura out there. You can't slow the enemy down or make them less accurate.

All in all, it's a fun set, but when things go south, you don't really have any tricks up your sleeve except more damage.

---

I'm going to get hammered on this as I don't have one, so bear with me, this is just from the info on ParagonWiki and stuff I've heard.

1. It's positional. The best approach is to be backed into a corner. If an enemy comes up from behind, most of your traits from the power set are not there.

2. Little damage resistance. The set is designed around defense, which is great, until the one alpha that slips by and fries you, especially psionics. The only power that offers substantial dmg res is a crash ability. Think the old school MoG in regen but without the first health crash.

3. Endurance cost. It's a pretty heavy endurance cost and most of the abilities are click or toggle. No endurance means you are very vulnerable, which means sappers and Carnies will be a problem. (okay, they're a problem for everyone, so sue me )

4. Team reliant. To really capitalize on the benefits, you need to have a large team. Not always possible or in some cased desired with melee heavy players.

5. Contain resistance. Your resistance against sleep,hold, etc. are on click powers, which means when they run out, enemies can hold you until you are gone. Later NPCs and in PvP can leave you vulnerable. Some other pools have this on toggle (regen for example) which makes them less vulnerable.

So is it the be all is all end all? No. But it's not really a horrible powerset, you just have to have some practice in handling it.

---

I don't think "Positional" in game terms means what you think it means. Positional refers to AOE, melee, or ranged. It doesn't matter if the mobs are in front or behind.

As for point 5, a few recharge SOs and it'll never run out -- It'll even overlap activations. Just set it on autofire and forget it. It's pretty much like SR's Practiced Brawler.

---

Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

[ QUOTE ]
There are no powers that increase your regeneration, recovery, speed, or recharge. There's no heal. There's no endurance recovery click power. There's no rez.

There's no damage aura. The taunt aura is +Dam (Self), -Dam (Foe), which pales in comparison to pretty much every other taunt aura out there. You can't slow the enemy down or make them less accurate.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I like it. It's the only set I liked enough to take to 50 twice. Once on Brute, once on Scrapper.

It's true it doesn't have gimmick powers or stuff to hit when you're in trouble, but neither does WP and that's very popular. What makes Shield great is that you can dash into a group and often kill minions in one hit (or sometimes two if you need to follow it up with an AoE). You get an amazing attack as part of your mitigation, because dead enemies don't do much damage.

You get some gimmicks. An attack is definitely a gimmick. You also get a +DEF bonus for allies. The problem I see is that those two powers are the ones most often skipped by people. They're crazy, because those are the two powers that make the set unique. Without them you may as well play something else.

It doesn't have +recov, +heal, rez, or +end. Neither does SR. It doesn't have +speed or +recharge. Neither does WP. It doesn't directly have +regen, but it has +HP, which makes you regen more HP per tic. It also has some things other sets don't, like a complete package of status resist. Only WP has that. It also has an incredibly powerful attack. And an AoE buff for teams, which no other defense set has. It's the only set where having more of that set makes all of the characters as a whole stronger, like playing a Thugs MM, but for Scrappers/Brutes/Tanks.

Shields isn't for everyone, but an offensive set that has a chance of stacking with a pactmate is pretty unique and definitely my style.

---

Let me just reply to LordLundar on a point-by-point basis:

1.As Tyger42 said, Positional means it has defence values based off melee, ranged, and AoE damage, as opposed to typed, which is smashing, lethal, fire, etc..

2.Shield also has not insignificant damage resistance built into a number of its toggles. While it's probably not going to make or break a fight, it's around 15-20% on a tank. If you pick up One with the Shield and Tough, you get around 60% to smashing and lethal. In addition, Against All Odds offers a damage debuff which, while not terribly large, complements the resistance you have.

3.Endurance does tend to be a problem, since there's an awful lot of toggles and no endurance recovery power other than OWTS. On the plus side, thanks to the fact that your set is defence based, you have a good chance to simply avoid attacks which drain end like sapper rays.

4. In all the time I was levelling my SD/Fire I never really felt like I "needed" a team. It was nice when they were there, but they were mostly just providing support in the same way they would for any other team I played. It's uncommon for teams to sit nicely within that tiny bubble from Phalanx Fighting to give me the buff, so by and large, I simply played like it wasn't there. I did use grant cover, and only once did I ever hear anyone mention that it seemed to be helping them- and that was because a Shadow Cyst exploded near a squishy and gave them the "Deflected!" message instead of "miss".

5. Click based resistances have their ups and their downs. Because it can stack, you can get better protections than with a toggle. I've got mine 3-slotted, specifically so it stacks and lets me get bigger -def debuff resists. It's less of an issue now, but click powers do not get suppressed in the off chance that someone does mezz you. Plus you won't lose your status protection when end drained until it expires. However, if something happens which cancels your buff effects, you have to wait for it to recharge in order to reapply. Also, if you're slowed, it might not recharge fast enough to keep it up.

---

My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money

Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?

[ QUOTE ]
It also has some things other sets don't, like a complete package of status resist. Only WP has that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we just pretending /regen doesn't exist? ( Or is there a hole in Integration that I'm forgetting? )

---

Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

On my Shield tanker i took aid self and tough. With aid self i am able to use my shield charge or foot stomp to knock most of the people down and get my aid self off (i put 3 healing IOs and 3 interrupt times in it). It works great i also took tough because i thought it would help and it does but i think im going to get rid of it.

---

[url="http://teenage-kid.deviantart.com/"]My Da page![/url]
Virtue
Ninja-Bee- 50 Ninja/Dark MM
Aqurian Draconum- 50 Archery/Fire Blaster
Korrawi- 50 Super Strength/Invulnerability Tank Plus many others!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It also has some things other sets don't, like a complete package of status resist. Only WP has that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we just pretending /regen doesn't exist? ( Or is there a hole in Integration that I'm forgetting? )

[/ QUOTE ]
Fear and Confuse at least.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It also has some things other sets don't, like a complete package of status resist. Only WP has that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we just pretending /regen doesn't exist? ( Or is there a hole in Integration that I'm forgetting? )

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he didn't mention it because regen is not a tanker set.

Wouldn't that be an awesome tank?

---

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It also has some things other sets don't, like a complete package of status resist. Only WP has that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we just pretending /regen doesn't exist? ( Or is there a hole in Integration that I'm forgetting? )

[/ QUOTE ]
Fear and Confuse at least.

[/ QUOTE ]
Repel, too.

---

Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It also has some things other sets don't, like a complete package of status resist. Only WP has that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we just pretending /regen doesn't exist? ( Or is there a hole in Integration that I'm forgetting? )

[/ QUOTE ]
Fear and Confuse at least.

[/ QUOTE ]
Repel, too.

[/ QUOTE ]
I usually forget about Repel. I think almost nothing has repel resistance. Let me look.

Basic status effects are:
Hold
Stun
Immobilize
Sleep
Fear
Confuse
Knockback
Repel *

Dark lacks: Knockback, Confuse, Repel
Fire lacks: Knockback, Confuse, Fear, Immobilize, Repel
Invuln lacks: Confuse, Fear, Repel
Regen lacks: Confuse, Fear, Repel
Shield lacks: (nothing)
SR lacks: Confuse, Fear, Repel (noticing a theme here?)
WP lacks: (nothing)
Ice lacks: Confuse, Fear, Repel
Earth lacks: Confuse, Fear, Immobilize, Repel
Elec lacks: Confuse, Fear, Repel
Energy lacks: Confuse, Fear
Ninjitsu lacks: Knockback, Repel

Note that some of those also have some unique bonuses. Elec for instance resists teleportation. Ice of course resists slows.

Also: True story: When I was a noob, my first high-level character was a regen Scrapper. I thought I was totally immune to all status effects, so I had no idea what was going on when Jack in Irons feared me.

---