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That was the best reply you could come up with?
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Nope.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Oh well. Enjoy your power leveling and lazy style of play while you can because it wont last forever.
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What makes you think he power levels and is lazy?
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I can't speak for Nethergoat but I'm very anti-farm/anti-PL and I still think a blanket nerf to AE rewards is stupid and will cause people to stop using it.
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Oh well. Enjoy your power leveling and lazy style of play while you can because it wont last forever.
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What makes you think he power levels and is lazy?
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I can't speak for Nethergoat but I'm very anti-farm/anti-PL and I still think a blanket nerf to AE rewards is stupid and will cause people to stop using it.
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Yes, but it is an age old tactic to disparage people who disagree with you when you cannot disagree with their point.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
It happens every night on the national news.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
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Making the low level missions less crappy would help, too.
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Personally I quite enjoy them.
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As do I.
Except on Villain side; I hate Kalinda's arcs. That's one bonus to the AE: I can make villain content that I like better and bypass Kalinda/Burke (although Burke mixes some good stuff in too).
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I did the first 20 times. After that I stopped caring about low level missions.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
lionheart_fr wrote:
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Don't they read? Didn't they do the tutorial that explained how contacts work, how enhancements and combining enhancements work, and all that?
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Most likely, no. Unfortunately, many people today don't want to spend the time to learn, they want to jump into the fun. Not that I can particularly blame them for wanting to do that.
Yes, it'd be nice if, on a more complicated game like an MMO, they invested a bit of time to learn what's going on. But there's fun to be had, and, "Oh, I can learn the details later."
The "Enter tutorial zone?" was added for existing players who didn't need tutoring any more. Unfortunately, it provided an out for those who do.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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When the same situation came about because of the winter lords, they changed it in a skinny minute. They really need to remove the capacity to make all boss or all Lt. instances. I am sure that would take a big bite out of the level 1-50 in 8 hours trade we have so abundantly now. This will really wreck the game for incoming players, just as the OP said. Did these die hard defenders of the current situation not see this coming. It will be happening all over. Level 1-50, then....."I'm bored with these AE missions. I quit this game." AE is all they know. They get sucked into AE from day one by the agressive recruiters in AP and figure that is the game.
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No matter what anyone says, this is the truth. I have the proof to show it. I have experienced it in person with someone. People can rant all they want. Truth is truth.
I have been finding out that people that got the AE box, a lot have got burned out quickly and left. Now that I talked to the person I mentioned in my first post he is telling those who came to the game with him that they have someone to show them the rest of the game now, and that there is a BUNCH more to it than just AE. I'm glad they are willing to give it another go since they found out that the game has real content now. More than just AE.
Before I met this person, I didn't care. Now I have SEEN it for myself and it is sad.
I personally find it annoying that there isn't more ingame help information about a variety of subjects I want to know more about. I think Cox is pretty guilty of this across a broad spectrum of things, which is why I can't think of anything specific as an example. In a perfect game, I wouldn't have to tab to wiki to learn how the rikti raid works.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
You know, at least before AE people had to work towards getting a certain contact to get the right missions to PL. Even if a newbie got sucked into that, they would want it for themselves at some point. They would have to work through the game to get that contact. They would learn the game by doing that.
Now, NOPE. Just log into atlas and get on a team and BANG, a new person can get stuck in there and never learn that there is more.
BTW, the person I met hit 50 in NO time at all and said that he really didnt know what he was doing and it got on his nerves a bit when people would say certain things about his game play. It really isnt 100% his faught, he said it just happen so damned fast.
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When the same situation came about because of the winter lords, they changed it in a skinny minute. They really need to remove the capacity to make all boss or all Lt. instances. I am sure that would take a big bite out of the level 1-50 in 8 hours trade we have so abundantly now. This will really wreck the game for incoming players, just as the OP said. Did these die hard defenders of the current situation not see this coming. It will be happening all over. Level 1-50, then....."I'm bored with these AE missions. I quit this game." AE is all they know. They get sucked into AE from day one by the agressive recruiters in AP and figure that is the game.
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Actually they didn't. It took a very very long time for them to react to and do something about the winter lords.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Now since I haven't started a new character since I14 dropped it was news to me (or so I'm told, still haven't made a new character since I14) that the contact for the AE tutorial pops up when you first zone in from the new character tutorial, bumping your normal first contact off of your nav bar as the waypoint. This leads new players who don't know better straight to the AE building.
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I made an alt after the magic pack came out. I can't remember if that was before or after i14 dropped. At any rate they were level 3 when I zoned in a couple days ago, when I hit 5 - the MA/AE contact popped up and told me to go talk to him in Atlas. I was in Kings Row heading to get my police scanner.
It was kind of annoying.
I'm for that contact not popping up until level 50. If you know to go there otherwise, that's fine, but why send a level 5 to the MA/AE? It's just silly. Isn't the broadcast spam in the low level zones bad enough?
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They really need to remove the capacity to make all boss or all Lt. instances.
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I've been for this for a long time. It has been discussed enough on the boards.
It's pretty obvious that this is the one main farm creation tactics. If they really want to stop farms requiring at least one minion, one LT, and one Boss really shouldn't be that hard to implement.
Heck, if they point scored stuff like Champions the RPG (even Champions Online doesn't do this) - they could pretty easily rate groups to make sure that they weren't overly powerful, but I know that will never happen.
I agree 100%.
Again...
The capacity to make a group of only one single type of critter is wondrous for those that use it to segment their missions. I totally disagree with a "solution" that harms those that dont abuse the system.
Go for the mission slots. Thats the way, in my point of view. Cut the ones creating the farms. Report the farms, whatever. As long as it is done fair, i see no problem.
Besides, farming has been part of the game for a long time. Farmers always chose the missions that best suited their powers. More important than all this is getting the exploits fixed. Group segmentation isnt an exploit. Its a way to better control the roles you want on your critters.
If you want an example:
Take a mission.
You want a basic type of enemies to appear on the whole misssion. Make then all minions. They are the fodder.
You also want a small cadre of patrollers. You want then to be harder. LTs.
And you want a few specific bosses to appear only when you want. Create a separate group for then.
That way you can apply good control over what spawn on every mission on your arc. If I want the damn Boss to appear only on the 3rd mission, I dont want then on the main group. This way you can make enhance and control the pace of the whole 5 missions.
Or you can make a big team, all mashed together, and the boss you wanted only on mission 3 appears on mission 1 because of number of players and/or difficulty level. And then all your hard work is damaged.
I tend to use from 10 to 14 customs on every arc i do. And I want to control all about then.
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
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Now since I haven't started a new character since I14 dropped it was news to me (or so I'm told, still haven't made a new character since I14) that the contact for the AE tutorial pops up when you first zone in from the new character tutorial, bumping your normal first contact off of your nav bar as the waypoint. This leads new players who don't know better straight to the AE building.
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I made an alt after the magic pack came out. I can't remember if that was before or after i14 dropped. At any rate they were level 3 when I zoned in a couple days ago, when I hit 5 - the MA/AE contact popped up and told me to go talk to him in Atlas. I was in Kings Row heading to get my police scanner.
It was kind of annoying.
I'm for that contact not popping up until level 50. If you know to go there otherwise, that's fine, but why send a level 5 to the MA/AE? It's just silly. Isn't the broadcast spam in the low level zones bad enough?
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That is why a contact popup for the police scanner/newspaper needs to generate at the same time as the Mission Architect contact popup.
I've always been a fan of point scoring. I can't think of a better more abstract way to balance the risk vs reward ratio, assuming the point allotments are accurate.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
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I can't speak for Nethergoat but I'm very anti-farm/anti-PL and I still think a blanket nerf to AE rewards is stupid and will cause people to stop using it.
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Counterpoint: I do powerlevel, I farm, and some might say I exploit bugs and imbalances to do so. However, I also have an interest in the game staying healthy, and the AE, as it is, is not helping. I do feel the rewards need adjusting.
I'd like to see a solution where maybe 1/8 or so of the population is in the AE at any given time. Basically what this means is that AE needs to be useful for something, but not useful for everything, nor should normal players be punished for using it. As it is you get superior exp (missions are optimized thusly by users) superior infamy/prestige, better "drops" via tickets (which are far more lucrative than merits, which are about right IMO) extremely low risk, and almost total elimination of travel time.
Cutting exp punishes casual players. As casual play is the intended function of the AE, that shouldn't be touched. Exploits need to be fixed, however, and I do consider all boss, lt, or even all minion maps exploits.
I would suggest removing inf/prestige from the AE instead; tickets are enough to keep a character well equipped from 1-50. This would help to curb the use of the AE for farming inf (though tickets->loot->market would still be viable) and hopefully get the 50s out in the game so we can get the markets moving again.
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I can't speak for Nethergoat but I'm very anti-farm/anti-PL and I still think a blanket nerf to AE rewards is stupid and will cause people to stop using it.
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Counterpoint: I do powerlevel, I farm, and some might say I exploit bugs and imbalances to do so. However, I also have an interest in the game staying healthy, and the AE, as it is, is not helping. I do feel the rewards need adjusting.
I'd like to see a solution where maybe 1/8 or so of the population is in the AE at any given time. Basically what this means is that AE needs to be useful for something, but not useful for everything, nor should normal players be punished for using it. As it is you get superior exp (missions are optimized thusly by users) superior infamy/prestige, better "drops" via tickets (which are far more lucrative than merits, which are about right IMO) extremely low risk, and almost total elimination of travel time.
Cutting exp punishes casual players. As casual play is the intended function of the AE, that shouldn't be touched. Exploits need to be fixed, however, and I do consider all boss, lt, or even all minion maps exploits.
I would suggest removing inf/prestige from the AE instead; tickets are enough to keep a character well equipped from 1-50. This would help to curb the use of the AE for farming inf (though tickets->loot->market would still be viable) and hopefully get the 50s out in the game so we can get the markets moving again.
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You don't get superior exp if you don't farm and use it as intended. You actually get less as patrol xp doesn't count and there are no mission bonuses. You also lose out on the chance at a drop when the mission completes. You also see no purples. (Actually this tells me many couldn't care less about purples and specifically the market for them.) You also lose out on the chance at a pool C/D from bosses that was recently introduced in issue 14. You also get no badge credit for defeat badges or badges needed for accolades. You also get no merits from arc completions.
There are drawbacks to doing nothing but AE already.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Now, NOPE. Just log into atlas and get on a team and BANG, a new person can get stuck in there and never learn that there is more.
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This isn't directed at you personally, but this wording is something I see used very often in similar posts. "Get stuck", as though they don't have a quit button on their team window like everyone else.
The other thing I've seen a lot is people making it sound as though 50s and other high levels are actively wrangling new people. From what I've seen, there's FAR more low level people hitting up Broadcast LOOKING for a team than the reverse. From the description some people use (again, not you personally), it comes across like lvl 50 fire/kins are hiding in corners in Atlas, whispering to newbies "hey.. you want some xp? I got the good stuff." like drug dealers or some such nonsense.
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Exploits need to be fixed, however, and I do consider all boss, lt, or even all minion maps exploits.
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I agree that they CAN be abused, but as has been pointed out by a couple others, there are perfectly viable reasons to make such groups. Personally, I'd prefer not to take that functionality away.
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I would suggest removing inf/prestige from the AE instead; tickets are enough to keep a character well equipped from 1-50. This would help to curb the use of the AE for farming inf (though tickets->loot->market would still be viable) and hopefully get the 50s out in the game so we can get the markets moving again.
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As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the few sane suggestions being made to rectify the current situation. Or, perhaps link the rewards to SG mode. If you're in, you get inf/prestige (or just prestige maybe?), but no tickets. If out, you get tickets only.
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Now, NOPE. Just log into atlas and get on a team and BANG, a new person can get stuck in there and never learn that there is more.
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This isn't directed at you personally, but this wording is something I see used very often in similar posts. "Get stuck", as though they don't have a quit button on their team window like everyone else.
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Unfortunately, newbies don't know they can use it. If you're told that's what we do in the game, as a newbie, that's what they'll believe. They're more likely to Quit the game than quit the team.
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The other thing I've seen a lot is people making it sound as though 50s and other high levels are actively wrangling new people. From what I've seen, there's FAR more low level people hitting up Broadcast LOOKING for a team than the reverse. From the description some people use (again, not you personally), it comes across like lvl 50 fire/kins are hiding in corners in Atlas, whispering to newbies "hey.. you want some xp? I got the good stuff." like drug dealers or some such nonsense.
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Level has nothing to do with it. Jaded Vets are PLing their alts.
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Unfortunately, newbies don't know they can use it. If you're told that's what we do in the game, as a newbie, that's what they'll believe. They're more likely to Quit the game than quit the team.
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That's on the individual. It has nothing to do with where AE buildings are, what level they're introduced to said individual, or anything else. Isn't the idea of these games to explore them, to some extent? If someone is too lazy or braindead to look around a little, good riddance. The game is better off without toolsheds like that.
Furthermore, it would take a special kind of d-bag to tell someone new to the game that AE is the extent of it. I'm quite fond of it, and use it extensively. I've had new (or new-ish) people on my teams, and if they ask, I'm much more likely to tell them about the non-AE aspects of the game, since they clearly already have some familiarity with that, even though the older content is pretty worn out and tired for me at this point.
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Level has nothing to do with it. Jaded Vets are PLing their alts.
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What exactly does this have to do with my point? I mean, as a freestanding statement, I have no quarrel with it, but I fail to see how it relates to my opinion that *some* forumites make it sound like new players are being herded against their will into AE buildings like cattle. (I'm not in their heads, so I don't know if they intend to carry this tone or not.) As I said, that isn't my experience at all. It seems to me that low-level characters, be they a new player or not, are the ones searching out AE teams, because that's what they WANT to do.
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Now, NOPE. Just log into atlas and get on a team and BANG, a new person can get stuck in there and never learn that there is more.
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This isn't directed at you personally, but this wording is something I see used very often in similar posts. "Get stuck", as though they don't have a quit button on their team window like everyone else.
The other thing I've seen a lot is people making it sound as though 50s and other high levels are actively wrangling new people. From what I've seen, there's FAR more low level people hitting up Broadcast LOOKING for a team than the reverse. From the description some people use (again, not you personally), it comes across like lvl 50 fire/kins are hiding in corners in Atlas, whispering to newbies "hey.. you want some xp? I got the good stuff." like drug dealers or some such nonsense.
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**new player logs in atlas, LFT!, gets snagged by a high level toon mostly for padding reasons, and is on that team leveling like MAD and thinks to themselves, WOW this is cool! I can get a 50 in no time.((remeber, some come here from other games and think that you need a 50 for what they think is most of the best content, End Game content like all other MMOs. This game is NOT like that. They dont know this)) They get to 50 in atlas, they keep doing AE stuff cause others dont/wont/dont know to tell them about the rest of the game and they get burned out***
Not hard to figure out. And it happens. Not my damned fault people dont tell them what they need to know. Not my damed fault they dont learn for themselves. But the crap happens. and we lose players cause of it.
Not everyone does research on a game and learns about it before they play.
Ranting about the other stuff some are doesnt fix new players getting burned out from being dumb enough to be stuck in atlas. Lt/Boss XP in MA missions isnt the point here, or being able to have custom single mobs in it with low risk.
**It needs to not be shown as a contact so soon and taken out of low level zones. Thats it.**
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**new player logs in atlas, LFT!, gets snagged by a high level toon mostly for padding reasons, and is on that team leveling like MAD and thinks to themselves, WOW this is cool! I can get a 50 in no time.((remeber, some come here from other games and think that you need a 50 for what they think is most of the best content, End Game content like all other MMOs. This game is NOT like that. They dont know this)) They get to 50 in atlas, they keep doing AE stuff cause others dont/wont/dont know to tell them about the rest of the game and they get burned out***
Not hard to figure out. And it happens. Not my damned fault people dont tell them what they need to know. Not my damed fault they dont learn for themselves. But the crap happens. and we lose players cause of it.
Not everyone does research on a game and learns about it before they play.
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Ok, fair enough. I certainly am in no position to say it doesn't happen. However, that chain of events is the worst case scenario.
From *my* personal experience, I didn't get automagically whisked into a Superfarm immediately upon arrival in Atlas and get to 50 in 5 hours. And for giggles, I've tried. On Liberty, Justice, even Freedumb. Most teams are looking for higher level characters that can bring more to the table. The pad argument doesn't really fly with me, either. A pad is just there to put bigger spawns on the map, and if you're doing it, its because you (or you and your buddy or whatever) are already equipped to handle it, and you don't need or want them in the mission anyway.
From *my* personal experience, if a new player asks me about the game, AE is one of the last things I'd mention. That goes for the whole of my friends and SG mates in game, too. Heck, me and my roommate just hijacked an old guildie from WoW. We've showed him around both sides, 1-50, without AE already. Mind you, we're both big fans of AE in general, as we've played enough that the stock content is more than a little tired in most cases.
From *my* personal experience, I can't even fathom being so devoid of curiousity as to never see what else the game world has to offer on my own. Or to never see what some of the other myriad possibilities of powersets might be like. That's not getting burned out, that's being too lazy to poke around a little. That's on the particular player, not the game.
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Ranting about the other stuff some are doesnt fix new players getting burned out from being dumb enough to be stuck in atlas. Lt/Boss XP in MA missions isnt the point here, or being able to have custom single mobs in it with low risk.
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You just said it yourself right there. "Dumb enough to be stuck in Atlas". That isn't the game's fault. That isn't AE's fault. That isn't the farmer's fault. Not my fault, not your fault. (It could, however, be a Nemesis plot. ZING.)
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**It needs to not be shown as a contact so soon and taken out of low level zones. Thats it.**
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I don't know that either of those change very much, at least in the long run. The reason Atlas is popular isn't so all the naughty PLers can snatch up new players, its because its the easiest and most convenient convergence of the AE building, WW, the base portal (crafting, potentially), and a trainer. That's why everyone holes up in Cap on the redside, instead of Mercy.
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Oh well. Enjoy your power leveling and lazy style of play while you can because it wont last forever.
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What makes you think he power levels and is lazy?