SpeakerJones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgvkDlLBzzA Give this one a minute or so...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSlXFoIAa88 From one of the best bad movies ever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThKNt-GY1ww No idea, it just works for me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI4pIJPKWk Yes, almost as overdone as Bodies, but for a reason...

Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral

Fire/SR is delightfully violent. Most fun I've had in a while.

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Rotten attitude. It's not on the individual - it's a failure of the game to show what is available. Just because a player is new, doesn't mean they are stupid.

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Nonsense. Its ridiculous to expect the game to spoonfeed its entire feature list to the player, and intrusive and cumbersome if it even tries. At some point, the player has to take over. If anything, the game does a fine job of introducing new things with the contacts that are added by default (Devs: Add the 1st Hollows contact to this list, please). That's enough, in my opinion. If a player, new or otherwise, can't be bothered to go talk to them, that's THEIR choice. Its not the game's fault if they choose not to.

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**new player logs in atlas, LFT!, gets snagged by a high level toon mostly for padding reasons, and is on that team leveling like MAD and thinks to themselves, WOW this is cool! I can get a 50 in no time.((remeber, some come here from other games and think that you need a 50 for what they think is most of the best content, End Game content like all other MMOs. This game is NOT like that. They dont know this)) They get to 50 in atlas, they keep doing AE stuff cause others dont/wont/dont know to tell them about the rest of the game and they get burned out***

Not hard to figure out. And it happens. Not my damned fault people dont tell them what they need to know. Not my damed fault they dont learn for themselves. But the crap happens. and we lose players cause of it.

Not everyone does research on a game and learns about it before they play.



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Ok, fair enough. I certainly am in no position to say it doesn't happen. However, that chain of events is the worst case scenario.

From *my* personal experience, I didn't get automagically whisked into a Superfarm immediately upon arrival in Atlas and get to 50 in 5 hours. And for giggles, I've tried. On Liberty, Justice, even Freedumb. Most teams are looking for higher level characters that can bring more to the table. The pad argument doesn't really fly with me, either. A pad is just there to put bigger spawns on the map, and if you're doing it, its because you (or you and your buddy or whatever) are already equipped to handle it, and you don't need or want them in the mission anyway.

From *my* personal experience, if a new player asks me about the game, AE is one of the last things I'd mention. That goes for the whole of my friends and SG mates in game, too. Heck, me and my roommate just hijacked an old guildie from WoW. We've showed him around both sides, 1-50, without AE already. Mind you, we're both big fans of AE in general, as we've played enough that the stock content is more than a little tired in most cases.

From *my* personal experience, I can't even fathom being so devoid of curiousity as to never see what else the game world has to offer on my own. Or to never see what some of the other myriad possibilities of powersets might be like. That's not getting burned out, that's being too lazy to poke around a little. That's on the particular player, not the game.


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Ranting about the other stuff some are doesnt fix new players getting burned out from being dumb enough to be stuck in atlas. Lt/Boss XP in MA missions isnt the point here, or being able to have custom single mobs in it with low risk.


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You just said it yourself right there. "Dumb enough to be stuck in Atlas". That isn't the game's fault. That isn't AE's fault. That isn't the farmer's fault. Not my fault, not your fault. (It could, however, be a Nemesis plot. ZING.)


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**It needs to not be shown as a contact so soon and taken out of low level zones. Thats it.**


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I don't know that either of those change very much, at least in the long run. The reason Atlas is popular isn't so all the naughty PLers can snatch up new players, its because its the easiest and most convenient convergence of the AE building, WW, the base portal (crafting, potentially), and a trainer. That's why everyone holes up in Cap on the redside, instead of Mercy.

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Unfortunately, newbies don't know they can use it. If you're told that's what we do in the game, as a newbie, that's what they'll believe. They're more likely to Quit the game than quit the team.

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That's on the individual. It has nothing to do with where AE buildings are, what level they're introduced to said individual, or anything else. Isn't the idea of these games to explore them, to some extent? If someone is too lazy or braindead to look around a little, good riddance. The game is better off without toolsheds like that.

Furthermore, it would take a special kind of d-bag to tell someone new to the game that AE is the extent of it. I'm quite fond of it, and use it extensively. I've had new (or new-ish) people on my teams, and if they ask, I'm much more likely to tell them about the non-AE aspects of the game, since they clearly already have some familiarity with that, even though the older content is pretty worn out and tired for me at this point.



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Level has nothing to do with it. Jaded Vets are PLing their alts.

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What exactly does this have to do with my point? I mean, as a freestanding statement, I have no quarrel with it, but I fail to see how it relates to my opinion that *some* forumites make it sound like new players are being herded against their will into AE buildings like cattle. (I'm not in their heads, so I don't know if they intend to carry this tone or not.) As I said, that isn't my experience at all. It seems to me that low-level characters, be they a new player or not, are the ones searching out AE teams, because that's what they WANT to do.

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Exploits need to be fixed, however, and I do consider all boss, lt, or even all minion maps exploits.


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I agree that they CAN be abused, but as has been pointed out by a couple others, there are perfectly viable reasons to make such groups. Personally, I'd prefer not to take that functionality away.


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I would suggest removing inf/prestige from the AE instead; tickets are enough to keep a character well equipped from 1-50. This would help to curb the use of the AE for farming inf (though tickets->loot->market would still be viable) and hopefully get the 50s out in the game so we can get the markets moving again.

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As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the few sane suggestions being made to rectify the current situation. Or, perhaps link the rewards to SG mode. If you're in, you get inf/prestige (or just prestige maybe?), but no tickets. If out, you get tickets only.

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Now, NOPE. Just log into atlas and get on a team and BANG, a new person can get stuck in there and never learn that there is more.


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This isn't directed at you personally, but this wording is something I see used very often in similar posts. "Get stuck", as though they don't have a quit button on their team window like everyone else.

The other thing I've seen a lot is people making it sound as though 50s and other high levels are actively wrangling new people. From what I've seen, there's FAR more low level people hitting up Broadcast LOOKING for a team than the reverse. From the description some people use (again, not you personally), it comes across like lvl 50 fire/kins are hiding in corners in Atlas, whispering to newbies "hey.. you want some xp? I got the good stuff." like drug dealers or some such nonsense.

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Mission architect shouldn't give any experience points or enhancement drops. They were saying they didn't want it to be about XP but instead about making creative stories and playing them/ sharing them with your friends and super group mates (as all the power levelers groaned and I applauded) so I was hoping, that is what they were going to do. That was the right philosophy to have about MA and I don't know why they changed their minds about that.

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Probably because they gathered enough common sense together to realize only a very, very small percentage of the playerbase would participate in something completely without reward.

I'll ask the obvious... if this character is just for farming, why not make one of the admittedly common, but tried and true builds? I mean, like it or not, there's a reason they're so popular already, yanno?

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I went in a different direction and i took the Earth Mastery; if you happen to go that way, +defense to soft cap is easy, then focus on + acc and the Force Feedback Proc in fissure. Its an odd way to go but i do boss farms better then tanks and fire/kins/fires.

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I went with Earth also. Relatively on the cheap, he's going to manage S/L def cap and perma Earth's Embrace (hp capped with a couple accolades and bonuses). Dunno, I just wasn't wild about the Fire APP, and perma IW is just ludicrously expensive. Then again, its ridiculous already with just generics from leveling.

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The last time I tried to do AE missions in a PuG it was a PL farm and I wasn't informed of this ahead of time. When I politely bowed out I had two players send me tells which were vulgar in the extreme. An anecdote to be sure, but that crowd is part of the "new COX" you're so proud of.

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There have been idiots whose mouths (or fingers, in this case) don't link up properly to their brain since day 1, and there will be until they shut the servers down. This is also true of every MMO of the past, present and future.

I'm fond of referring to this as a game's "signal to noise ratio" (and I'm sure someone did the same before me, not claiming its original), and generally speaking, both today and going back as long as I've played, CoX has a pretty tolerable ratio.

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because folks go from 1-50 in the Atlas AE and don't even know how to play thier charcters is ok

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This isn't totally aimed at you, I'm just sick of seeing this particular reason thrown around for the evils of AE.

This game is not difficult or complicated. At all. Anybody who spends a bit of time playing a 50 has enough of a grasp to fulfill their role. If they can't, they're mentally deficient or just don't care to learn.

Again, not totally directed at you. I just can't even begin to describe how tired I am of hearing this nonsense, as though mastering this game is somehow a herculean task.

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I have seen so many people saying "Changing AE will not fix the problem". Well, I think MOST people will agree that AE has caused a fairly LARGE problem. So WHAT exactly will fix it if not changing something about AE itself?

My list of ideas:

Nerf AE xp to one half normal rate. (IIRC this was going to be the way it originally was anyway, and only "Dev Choice" arcs would get full xp)

Require one level 50 character to access AE.

Move MA buildings out of any zone with a level lower than Steel Canyon/Skyway City.

Require a minimum level of 25 to access AE. (If the one level 50 method is considered too severe...at least then a player will have HOPEFULLY played his way up to SO's)

Increase salvage/recipe drops in the main game vs playing AE.

Provide other benefits to playing Dev created content vs player created content. (Merits, etc)

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Your ideas create a problem just as large, if not larger, as they will render AE a ghost town. So, an entire issue and enormous chunks of development time, not to mention one of the most interesting and promising MMO features ever, will go largely to waste.

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I've also pointed out that putting the "main" AE training contact in the lower zones was done with out any fore-thought of what it could cause. Obviously, it immediately lured higher level characters to the lowest level zones for training and, well, I'm sure you can see how the dominoes of abuse logic start falling rapidly at that point...

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That's completely ridiculous. Regardless of where they placed that contact, people would have congregated in the zones they wound up using. AP arguably offers the most convenient and efficient access to WW and a base portal. Same goes for Cap redside. Without stepping it off myself, I do believe those two AE buildings are also the nearest to trainers.

What a new, exciting and COMPLETELY original topic.
Color me enthralled.

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One more question. Are the lower level IO's (level 15 or 20) worth buying if I don't have much in the way of influence (less than 70k at this point I think). They're clearly much better than the training ones, but would it be better to save up and get them later? Or should I build what I can as often as possible?

Thanks again for the replies, and if anyone has any advice for the late teens and 20's I'd be appreciative.

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My habit personally is to not slot anything but whatever random drops I get until I can put in lvl 25 generic IOs (I believe this is the point where they're "better" than SOs, but it might be 30, don't recall), but that's me. As for cash flow, the market forum is full of ideas and ways to help you fatten your wallet to do that, or whatever slotting you choose.

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it is my opinion, that all Fire/kins should be shot.

But that is only because I like when I see controllers controlling, not doing damage.


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No kidding. How DARE someone play an AT in a way OTHER than what you think is proper?!? THE ARROGANCE.

*sigh*

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So, like the Arena, but...

- Everyone has a portable Arena kiosk.
- There are non-deathmatch options (other than Pokemon).

Sounds good, but what about non-instanced Zone PvP? Just drop it altogether?

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I wouldn't suggest dropping Zone PvP. Instead, I'd make it a "PvE content" where PvP is possible. Perhaps a form of the Mothership Raid, where if you're side controls the objective, you must defend it (prevent the placing of bombs, defend Pylon points, aid a non-buffable / non-healable AV / GM).

This way, players could get together and Raid it, PvE style, but players from the other side could come in and defend the objectives as best they could. This would give a form of PvE objectiveness that allows people to "pick and choose" when and how they fight, but still allow open PvP.

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I don't know how well that would work out in practice. Ultimately, the... "purists" from either side (for lack of a better term when I've been awake 36 hours) mix about as well as oil and water. The petty quibbling anytime PvP comes up here on the forums should make that quite clear. Now, make that an organized (and yes, instanced) mini game? Each side has to play both roles, then the winner is determined? Sounds like fun to me.

I've been thinking about zones since I first decided to post in this thread, and I don't really know what could be done with them. The very nature of a zone anyone can enter any old time lends itself to imbalance. That's not fun, which sort of takes us right back where we started, no?

I guess my bottom line goes like this... the more balanced any PvP encounter becomes, the more competitive its likely to be, and that's what really makes PvP fun and exciting, at least for me personally. Open zones very rarely work that way, no matter what sideshow you have in them.

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Rather than level brackets, I'd rather see Rep Brackets. Let the auto-sking remain, but the more kills you have with that character, the higher a bracket you are in. Try to match player skill to player skill.

IMHO, the build is more likely to follow the skill than vice versa. With farming, anyone can have a purpled out 50 fairly quickly and have no idea how to get kills.

Granted, you can just duo-box to farm an alt for kills to get your rep up, too...

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That sounds more like something that may apply better to the zones, in some fashion or another. Also, I didn't mean to imply that a purple build meant the player knows what they're doing. What I was trying to minimize was the inherent imbalance between say a lvl 26 with half their slots, and more than likely nothing but generic IOs, against a lvl 50 with everything dolled out. Skill notwithstanding, the lvl 26 is always at a clear disadvantage there. Even if the 50 is only kitted with generics as well, its significant.

That's what I was trying work around to some extent with real, separated brackets.