Most Underperforming Powersets.
By
Aces_High,
Posted on: 2009-07-09 21:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR
Really? Super Reflexes is underperforming? I know it's personal opinion but two posters noted this set. I'm a bit confused. :/
[/ QUOTE ]
Me to I'm confused too, I have 6 lvl 50 Scrappers 2 of them are /SR and they are not weak at all they are 2 of my best. I don't see how anyone could say /SR under underperforming when you now have Shield Defense. Shield Defense as lower Defense number and as lower Resistance to Defense of Debuff. Two big things a Defense set likes to have high.
[/ QUOTE ]
SR can be uber or sucky, depending on how you build and PLAY it.
If your of the mindset that inspreations are for the weak... leveling up a SR, can feel painful. If your not, and you eat a purple or two before a big fight, it's as easy as it gets.
If you don't softcap, it can feel weak. If you do, it feels overpowered.
Mine are softcapped (2 scraps and a brute) and i feel inspreations are part of the game for a reason, meaning i eat them like candy, thus, IMO, SR is prolly the best proforming scrapper secondary in the game, hands down without question.
If you don't softcap and feel inspreations are for sissys... it'd prolly underproform. *shrug*
IMO, the #1 under proforming set is Gravity. I've been a gravity users since day freaking ONE. Gravity/Kin. first hero, first 50, the toon i consider my "main" But lately, after having played... ALL the other controller primarys... i can hardly bring my self to play him. His control is very lacking. AoE wise, he has 2 real options. GDF, which is a nice hold, but you use it every 3rd spawn or so. Wormhole, which, when it's not bugged works OK after you get the hang of placing the mobs, but, for me anyways, has been next to unuasble cause my TP ratical seems to go red on the ground ALOT and won't let me finish the move. (have this issue from time to time on my Elec brute and Shield scrapper. VERY annoying, but them sets still kick butt IMO dispite the glitch.)
So, one great but slow aoe hold, one tricky to use, and glitchy aoe mezz, and a phase shift i've found useful, not even half a dozen times in 5 YEARS. Sure, i've save the team once or twice by phaseing some over argo, but power that's useful once every few HUNDERED play sessions is kind of crappy IMO...
It's single target control is pretty good in all honesty, but all but pointless in group play. Group play is about AoE control.
The pet is like, there. It helps control a little bit, but it's a single target focus too, you have to get kind of close to the action to get him to do anything anyways, and if you get him too close, mobs go flying...
So gravity... underproforms, and take alot of practice and fine tooning got reach said underproforming levels... it's kind of said really.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
Martial Arts- Pretty much what everyone said. The buffs it got helped, but I still feel it is underperforming compared to the other sets. It's better on scrappers.
Devices-It's a fun concept set, full of neat toys. But the lack of BU and the setup time hurts. The Gun Drone is alright, I just hate having to respawn it every minute.
Psi Blast for Blasters- I got one to lvl 41,then shelved him. Was painful. My Fire/EM blaster does better ST and AoE. Although, Psi was more survivable.
Fire Armor- I think it is better on a Scrapper personally than a Tank or Brute, which generally are seen on teams to tank and take aggro. Scrappers just flip out and kill stuff, which FA helps with the mass slaughtering.
Electric Armor-Low resists,no defense, and no regen/HP bonus on a low HP AT? lolwut? It's better on brutes, more HP to back up the resists. It could still use a buff Bruteside though.
Poison for MMs get a mention as well.
It's a awesome soloing/small team/AV/PvP secondary, but for big teams, its lacking. The trap the crap, the hold is meh, and if you solo alot with this secondary(which you probably should) the Rez and Antidote are pretty much useless. Antidote I can see taking solo though, protects your pets from holds and whatnot.
The Rez power is pretty fun though, its funny watching your fellow teammates hurl up their breakfast. 
Energy Melee. Sure, it's not bad for soloing, but the bigger the team gets, the less useful it becomes.
I won't list anything else, because that's the only one I've played enough to be familiar with.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why delete it? Keep it around to see if Psi gets a buff - then you will already have a level 30 ready to go. You have other slots to make a different blaster in.
OTOH, keep playing it. "Underperforming" doesn't mean you can't play it, just that it may seem a bit harder to level than if you were playing a different Blaster primary. Until you read this thread, did you know you were "underperforming"? If not, then you can go on as before.
[/ QUOTE ]
its my first blaster. so i wouldnt know if it was gimped or not. but now that i know they are gimped or sorry, "underperforming", how can i keep playing it? when I know now that i could be something better....im going to have blaster envy now everytime i see a fire blaster melt faces!!
deleting it isnt a big deal anyways, getting to level 30 can be done in about a half hour nowadays....
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're one of those players who is constantly jumping to the next "good set", you're going to be jumping around a lot. Popular opinion is constantly fluctuating on what sets are good, which are underperforming, and which just plain suck. See this thread for examples.
I suggest you make a character that you enjoy playing and ignore all the hard numbers. You won't notice any real significant differences in what you're capable of. I run an Elec/Dev Blaster, affectionately known as "The Gimp Combination" and she rips mobs apart in spite of it. The only time "hard numbers" ever seem to matter is when you're in direct competition with other people -- namely PvP, and even then, FoTMs come and go. They're called FoTM for a reason.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
[ QUOTE ]
QR
Really? Super Reflexes is underperforming? I know it's personal opinion but two posters noted this set. I'm a bit confused. :/
[/ QUOTE ]
Some people just really hate "one dimensional" defenses, even if that one dimension is really really good.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
[ QUOTE ]
Electric Armor-Low resists,no defense, and no regen/HP bonus on a low HP AT? lolwut?
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed LOL Lets not act like Brutes couldn't use the help either 
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
Haha, should have explained that it is the sux on stalkers, and that it is better on Brutes, although it could still use a buff.
Woot for Edit Button!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Electric Armor-Low resists,no defense, and no regen/HP bonus on a low HP AT? lolwut?
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed LOL Lets not act like Brutes couldn't use the help either
[/ QUOTE ]
Because it pays to ignore the fact that the power set brings in 3 incredibly powerful support utility powers. Lightning Reflexes (omg! more recharge!), Conserve Power (which provides a huge boon for endurance problems), and Power Sink (more than twice as good as Dark Consumption and Consume!). Electric armor is sub par in the region of personal defenses because it's packing major benefits elsewhere.
I was actually addressing the Stalker version on ElA, on a Brute its decent, as they have LF to stack with Power Sink to help drain mobs of endurance. Stalkers don't get that.
Conserve Power is pretty useless on a Brute or a Stalker if you IO them out with +recov bonuses, Endurance reducers and Accolades for max end, though it could help in a tight spot. Without IOs, it does help, but it takes forever to recharge.
Lighting Reflexes is awesome. Simply put.
The Stalker version could use more help that the Brute version. Alot more.
another vote for Elec/ blasting.
if you really want to see how bad a tradeoff you are making for endo drain, try pairing Elec/ with something other than /elec or maybe /energ
[ QUOTE ]
another vote for Elec/ blasting.
if you really want to see how bad a tradeoff you are making for endo drain, try pairing Elec/ with something other than /elec or maybe /energ
[/ QUOTE ]
Already have. In fact, I mentioned it in this thread: Elec/Dev, the posterchild for "gimp combination" in the blaster community. Mine doesn't even have VS or the Gun Drone, and yet, she still does what a Blaster is supposed to do: destroy spawns. Sure it takes a tad longer, but I have a ton of utility powers that makes her have a playstyle I enjoy.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
[ QUOTE ]
Because it pays to ignore the fact that the power set brings in 3 incredibly powerful support utility powers. Lightning Reflexes (omg! more recharge!), Conserve Power (which provides a huge boon for endurance problems), and Power Sink (more than twice as good as Dark Consumption and Consume!). Electric armor is sub par in the region of personal defenses because it's packing major benefits elsewhere.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powersink is all that's needed for endurance, which makes Conserve Power a waste. Most /ELA Brutes are aware of this fact. LR is a great power, but it isn't enough to cover up the short comings of the set.
ELA is probably the underperforming Brute Set but that's like saying the Audi A3 is the underperforming car in the A series line up. It's still good, but the worst of the good. IMO, of course.
[ QUOTE ]
Conserve Power is pretty useless on a Brute or a Stalker if you IO them out with +recov bonuses, Endurance reducers and Accolades for max end, though it could help in a tight spot. Without IOs, it does help, but it takes forever to recharge.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're giving Conserve Power a really bad rap like most people do, especially considering that the power set has Quickness to increase the uptime. Even in IO builds, it's not uncommon for Conserve Power, with just 2 slots, to be capable of reversing a .6 end/sec deficiency. Conserve Power, considering how much endurance attack strings use, is actually a very powerful, especially when you've got internal +rech to get it back even more often.
What I think most people neglect to see about Electrical Armor is that it's actually better for endurance than Willpower, Regeneration, or any other set out there. It's weaker defensively because it's got more outright utility than any other set brings to the fore. The 2 main resist toggles are actually more effective than similar toggles in other sets (35% to 3 common damage types before AT mods rather than 30%). What makes it "weaker" in most people's eyes is that, beyond the basics (mez protection, 2 survivability toggles), it focuses on attributes that are ignored through normal means of determining balance. It's like saying that Fire Armor and Shield defense are weaker but only because you choose to ignore their offensive additions. Electrical Armor is actually well balanced, if you actually consider the additional endurance capabilities and passive benefits.
[ QUOTE ]
You're giving Conserve Power a really bad rap like most people do, especially considering that the power set has Quickness to increase the uptime.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not giving CP a bad rap, I never even dogged the power but in a set that has unlimited endurance replenishment capabilities...it's a waste.
[ QUOTE ]
Even in IO builds, it's not uncommon for Conserve Power, with just 2 slots, to be capable of reversing a .6 end/sec deficiency. Conserve Power, considering how much endurance attack strings use, is actually a very powerful, especially when you've got internal +rech to get it back even more often.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, CP is a great tool and I have used in the past on other characters, but it is superfluous on electric armor for two reasons: 1. Powersink 2. ELA's -endurance resistance
[ QUOTE ]
What I think most people neglect to see about Electrical Armor is that it's actually better for endurance than Willpower, Regeneration, or any other set out there. It's weaker defensively because it's got more outright utility than any other set brings to the fore. The 2 main resist toggles are actually more effective than similar toggles in other sets (35% to 3 common damage types before AT mods rather than 30%). What makes it "weaker" in most people's eyes is that, beyond the basics (mez protection, 2 survivability toggles), it focuses on attributes that are ignored through normal means of determining balance. It's like saying that Fire Armor and Shield defense are weaker but only because you choose to ignore their offensive additions. Electrical Armor is actually well balanced, if you actually consider the additional endurance capabilities and passive benefits.
[/ QUOTE ]
The endurance capabilities are great but its the survivability of the set that lags behind others. The resistances offered by the set are medicore at best (except energy of course and outside PS), and the only mitigation offered is in the form of Endurance Drain which is totally binary in nature.
Like I said, ELA is a underperforming set for a great AT but it could use a tweak.
My idea, and I don't think I am the sole originator, is to revamp CP to include an enhanceable heal/+HP component (lesser version of Dull Pain) while halving the endurance discount portion.
[semi-QR]
Welp. Every set listed here as "underperforming" has amazed me more than once in the hands of a good player. So, I guess the set that I think is underperforming is whatever one a lousy player is using. Lousy players can't pull greatness out of any powerset, but good players can do great work with even the most "underperforming" powerset.
I've seen great electric and psi blasters, awesome Gravity controllers, and one of the best scrappers I know uses MA as his primary (Hello Infatum!). Electric Armor, as mentioned by some folks, has a great bag of tricks. I see some folks mentioning SR or Empathy; have you lost your minds?
<QR>
In no particular order, speaking from a PvE perspective:
Devices
Post-I13 Traps (especially for Corruptors)
Elec Armor
Elec Blast (all versions)
Blaster Psi Blast
And speaking from a PvP perspective:
Sonic Resonance
Elec Armor
Assault Rifle
Ice Blast (especially Corruptors)
Traps
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I think this thread should be considered a great tribute to the devs and their continuous work in striving for balance. If these sets are considered the "worst" or "most underperforming" or "least potential" that's pretty damn good. These sets can all tear it up
Like others have already analogized we're differentiating between 9.2s and 9.7s and not 2s and 3s to 9s. "Bad" isn't really "bad" in this game
Interesting thread...I have to say I have spent the majority of my time in this game on red side. Given all the talk of electric issues I have to say I like my SS/Electric brute. It took a bit of getting used to because I really lean towards toons with a self heal...so I managed to fit in aid self on my build...foot stomp gives plenty of time to bust out a quick heal. When it comes to Malta and Rikti missions that brute is a beast and some times I just really want to beat up Malta
I have much less experience blue side but enjoy my blasters quite a bit...of the four (eng/elec, Fire/eng, arch/dev, elec/mental manipulation) I really like playing the elec/mental the best and he is still in his 20's all the others are upper 30's-41. I would recommend mental manipulation as a very viable choice to pair with electric. I think as this toon gets built out it will be an excellent combo.
As far as underperforming sets goes, I would like to see some minor adjustments to devices. I would trade time bomb for the traps hold in a second. It just feels lacking in general.
I wouldnt touch gravity with a ten foot pole being held by seomone else. That is literally the only set I have not tried at least once on something...no...wait...gravity and martial arts. So I am not speaking from experience of underperfoming but experience of never seeing one perform well enough to make me want to go roll one up.
The Revenants and Vengeance Imperium-Triumph, Champion & now flavoring Justice!
Tanker Tuesdays & Brutal Thursdays. If you like fun, look'em up!
Shhh! Rangle is plotting.
[ QUOTE ]
My idea, and I don't think I am the sole originator, is to revamp CP to include an enhanceable heal/+HP component (lesser version of Dull Pain) while halving the endurance discount portion.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would actually seem rather interesting. It wouldn't really break Cottage Rule, but it would definitely merit some degree of name change for the power (not that powers of the same name have to be the same). It might actually be better to contemplate making it a +recov/+hp/+heal power. Think mixing Dull Pain and Quick Recovery.
Basic numbers to think of would be 10% enhanceable +hp, 10% unenhanceable, 30% enhanceable heal, and 15% +recovery all on a 4 minute cooldown with a 60 second duration. The +hp is half of Dull Pain's, the heal is 75%, the +recov is half of Quick Recovery's, and the basic uptime ratio is 25% rather than 33%. The heal is, itself, better over time than Dull Pains would be, meshing well with the +res of the set, but the +recharge requirements to get it permanent would be a good deal higher to make up for the diverse attributes.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My idea, and I don't think I am the sole originator, is to revamp CP to include an enhanceable heal/+HP component (lesser version of Dull Pain) while halving the endurance discount portion.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would actually seem rather interesting. It wouldn't really break Cottage Rule, but it would definitely merit some degree of name change for the power (not that powers of the same name have to be the same). It might actually be better to contemplate making it a +recov/+hp/+heal power. Think mixing Dull Pain and Quick Recovery.
Basic numbers to think of would be 10% enhanceable +hp, 10% unenhanceable, 30% enhanceable heal, and 15% +recovery all on a 4 minute cooldown with a 60 second duration. The +hp is half of Dull Pain's, the heal is 75%, the +recov is half of Quick Recovery's, and the basic uptime ratio is 25% rather than 33%. The heal is, itself, better over time than Dull Pains would be, meshing well with the +res of the set, but the +recharge requirements to get it permanent would be a good deal higher to make up for the diverse attributes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like you.
[ QUOTE ]
-Sonic Resonance... my beef with this set is several things.. One its a straight port of Force Field except with Damage Resistance instead of Defense... Detention Field is crap in PVE and Sonic Cage is crap as well.. and you know why its crap ?? Its not so much the effect( which in itself is annoying ) is that it should be a toggle that I can TURN OFF when I want too...
Sonic Reuplsion.. yes thats what everyone wants.. Mobs scattered all over the place... not a team power..
I also hate the fact that one of my BEST powers Disruption field ONLY WORKS WITH AN ALLY.. the freaking TRICK ARROW defender figured out how to make this power a Location AoE but me the MASTER of Sonic cant figure this out ???!!!!! WTH !!!!! and he gets a 25 foot radius too ???!!!!!!!
Oh yeah.... Liquify.. what a piece of crap.. yes it works... but its still a piece of crap... First off all Sonic is all about -Res... yet my TIER FREAKING has NO -res in it... NONE.... There is a lamo hold that I have seen work like once.. oh yeah and a Defense to hit Debuff thats nice.... but its equal to what a RAD defender does in their tier TWO power.. so the power I have waited 32 0r 38 levels to get is no better than what a Rad defender got more than 20 levels earlier ??????? you gotta be kidding me...
[/ QUOTE ]
So...you're surprised a buffing set has one of it's best powers that goes on an ally. That's like being surprised that you can't put Fortitude on yourself.
And yes, the Archer who plant a device to create a proxy for the sonic waves by firing it anywhere he chooses where as the Sonic Resonance defender, (whose powers don't use devices) needs a proxy to bounce the sonic waves off of.
Speaking from someone who has an Ill/TA and a Sonic Res/Nrg Blast, both at level 50, I actually prefer Disruption Field and Sonic Siphon to Acid Arrow and Disruption Field. For example, that's one less thing for me to do during an AV. There is a CONSTANT DEBUFF if you put it on a melee character engaging whomever. Works especially well with Tanks and Brutes.
Sonic Cage, I'll agree is sort of worthless.
I, also, have a build that uses Sonic Repulsion AND Telekenesis. It's a good way to control mobs, and with Sonic Repulsion, it's a good way to save Squishy players, like blasters and other defenders, from melee enemies.
And Liquefy is amazing btw. On top of the Hold, and the Debuff, it also does knockdown for it's duration and a tohit debuff. And if you REALLY want -res in there...drop the proc in it.
Sonic really isn't that bad, IMO. Sorry.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
another vote for Elec/ blasting.
if you really want to see how bad a tradeoff you are making for endo drain, try pairing Elec/ with something other than /elec or maybe /energ
[/ QUOTE ]
Already have. In fact, I mentioned it in this thread: Elec/Dev, the posterchild for "gimp combination" in the blaster community. Mine doesn't even have VS or the Gun Drone, and yet, she still does what a Blaster is supposed to do: destroy spawns. Sure it takes a tad longer, but I have a ton of utility powers that makes her have a playstyle I enjoy.
[/ QUOTE ]
yea i did much the same with my elec/ice guy...he has more holds than my controller. i can lock down a group and pick them apart at my leisure
apparently i didnt learn my lesson though because when i went to the red side i picked another build that has gotten several mentions here....an elec/elec brute. however he is my favorite villain
In my experience (what I played and didnt like because I felt I was clearly underperforming) :
- Psychic Blast for blasters.
- Sonic resonance/ for defenders or /Sonic resonance for controllers and corruptors.
- Peacebringers as a whole, if you compare them to Warshades.
- Energy Melee/ for brutes since the nerfs.
- Every defender secondary but /Sonic Attack (just having a whole secondary devoted toward dmg for a so low dmg coefficient doesnt make sense to me).
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking from someone who has an Ill/TA and a Sonic Res/Nrg Blast, both at level 50, I actually prefer Disruption Field and Sonic Siphon to Acid Arrow and Disruption Field. For example, that's one less thing for me to do during an AV. There is a CONSTANT DEBUFF if you put it on a melee character engaging whomever. Works especially well with Tanks and Brutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I play on a lot teams where there isn't a single melee character. Disruption field is way too situational for my liking. At least with something like fortitude, all ATs can benefit from it from different ways.
[ QUOTE ]
I, also, have a build that uses Sonic Repulsion AND Telekenesis. It's a good way to control mobs, and with Sonic Repulsion, it's a good way to save Squishy players, like blasters and other defenders, from melee enemies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Someone's trash is always someone else's treasure I suppose. I consider sonic repulsion the most skippable power in the entire set.
[ QUOTE ]
And Liquefy is amazing btw. On top of the Hold, and the Debuff, it also does knockdown for it's duration and a tohit debuff. And if you REALLY want -res in there...drop the proc in it.
[/ QUOTE ]
The effects are okay, it's the long recharge which makes the power meh.
[ QUOTE ]
Sonic really isn't that bad, IMO. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bad? No. Underperforming. Yes.
[ QUOTE ]
Why delete it? Keep it around to see if Psi gets a buff - then you will already have a level 30 ready to go. You have other slots to make a different blaster in.
OTOH, keep playing it. "Underperforming" doesn't mean you can't play it, just that it may seem a bit harder to level than if you were playing a different Blaster primary. Until you read this thread, did you know you were "underperforming"? If not, then you can go on as before.
[/ QUOTE ]
its my first blaster. so i wouldnt know if it was gimped or not. but now that i know they are gimped or sorry, "underperforming", how can i keep playing it? when I know now that i could be something better....im going to have blaster envy now everytime i see a fire blaster melt faces!!
deleting it isnt a big deal anyways, getting to level 30 can be done in about a half hour nowadays....