Positional Resistance; is it possible?
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2009-07-08 19:10 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
No, we never will see it. It would change the very core of the game, and isn't necessary to boot.
As far as I know, it isn't possible. At the very least, it'd likely require changing every single attack in the game to include positions on the damage components...
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then resisting a sword vs. a bullet
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Kevlar vs chainmail. Kevlar sucks at stopping knives but is good for guns. Chainmail sucks at stopping bullets, but kicks knives' [censored].
Edit: Bah... At least I didn't ask someone 'What AT?' in a thread in the Corruptor forum again....
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Kevlar vs chainmail. Kevlar sucks at stopping knives but is good for guns. Chainmail sucks at stopping BULLETS, but kicks knives' [censored].
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fixed
and also, how could that be pulled off thematically?
I can resist a fireball thrown at me....but if you'r eupclose it hurts more
It could work in theory, I guess.
You have the added complication of mixed type attacks.
Say someone hits you with an Energy Blast for 7 Smashing and 23 Energy damage, and you have:
50% Smashing Resistance
0% Energy resistance
30% Ranged Resistance
What happens?
I suppose the 7 damage gets applied vs Smashing Resistance (because 50 is bigger than 30), and the Energy damage gets applied vs your Ranged resistance (because 30 is bigger than 0)?
So it could be done, the question really would be why?
What sort of character concept is there that would demand it? You could I guess have a space-farer with large AoE resistance because they're immuneto extremes of environment, or something contrived like a kinetic field that slows down incoming projectiles for ranged Resistance.
You could already do this sort of thing with positional defence, and unless you're watching the combat log like a hawk you wont notice too much.
What would a set with this look like? A new set that only provides Melee resistance wont be too popular. You'd end up with a number of toggles covering all the bases, and its really no different from existing sets then. It doesnt really matter if you have a Melee res toggle and a Ranged/AoE toggle vs a S/L toggle and a F/C/E/N toggle, does it?
Finally theres then the added problem of having to balance other things with these new sets. Set bonuses are all types resistance. Tough is types resistance, and so are any epic shiedls, or temporary powers like the Wedding Band. Do they get modified to include some positional Resistance too so as not to penalise the new sets?
Its a cool idea, but ultimately a lot of work for little return.
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As far as I know, it isn't possible. At the very least, it'd likely require changing every single attack in the game to include positions on the damage components...
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then resisting a sword vs. a bullet
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Kevlar vs chainmail. Kevlar sucks at stopping knives but is good for guns. Chainmail sucks at stopping knives, but kicks knives' [censored].
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I see Kevlar as more defense than resistance.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
I could see it as Gravity Armor. It would represent your control over the speed of the various types of objects coming towards you. Like knives/fists (melee), bullets/blasts (ranged), and explosions (AoE).
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
Actually, melee resistance could be possible with a radially decreasing -dmg aura, and would be one of the most interesting things to happen to a melee powerset.
It might also be possible to allow resistance sets to enhance this particular -dmg power only.
QR
No, "positional resistance" is not possible, without making significant changes to the game. Technically, there's no such thing as "positional defense", either, there's just Defense that happens to be called Ranged_Defense which helps to protect you from an attack vector that happens to be called Ranged_Attack. They could just as easily be called Fluffy_Defense, which protects you from White_Attack, and they would act exactly the same. We call it positional because most offensive powers have one of the three "positional" attack vectors, and because of how they're named.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Both Shield and Ice have -dmg auras. These reduce the amount of damage taken which is similar to how resistance works. In both cases, you have to be melee range for this to work (also enhancing is also troublesome). Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance, so it stands to reason that it might be possible to have the aura diminish as the distance from the user increases.
In this sense, melee resistance could be possible, and is technically available already in the game, albeit at a very small level of efficacy. If the same effect could be reversed, you could create range defense (the closer the person is, the less -dmg is done.
The only thing that would not possibly be possible is having the aura diminish radially.
And you might not have understood the QR before Fleeting's post.
QR is short for Quick Reply, the posting field located directly below the thread. It's easy to use and post a quick response, but it has the downside of listing as a reply to the last poster.
People here use the QR to denote that it's just a Quick Reply and isn't necessarily a response to the poster it's listed as.
Since Fleet's post has pretty much nothing to do with yours, it's pretty clear he was not intending it to serve as a response to yours.
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Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Oh, ok thanks! Editing the first sentence out then.
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QR
No, "positional resistance" is not possible, without making significant changes to the game. Technically, there's no such thing as "positional defense", either, there's just Defense that happens to be called Ranged_Defense which helps to protect you from an attack vector that happens to be called Ranged_Attack. They could just as easily be called Fluffy_Defense, which protects you from White_Attack, and they would act exactly the same. We call it positional because most offensive powers have one of the three "positional" attack vectors, and because of how they're named.
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Standard code rant applies, but it doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal to me. They'd just have to add 3 new damage types, Ranged_Damage, Melee_Damage, and AOE_Damage and 3 new resistance types to go with them.
Now that being said, I still don't think it's a good idea, it just doesn't make any sense.
To use the analogy between chainmail and kevlar, the difference between a knife and a bullet and the protective power of the armor doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they're melee or ranged attacks. Kevlar can't stop a knife because the point of the knife concentrates the force on just a few fibers of kevlar and it can penetrate them, whereas a bullet contacts many fibers, and the fact that they can stretch and spread out the force of the bullet keeps it from penetrating. A knife thrown from range and one held in your hand, both with the same amount of force behind them would penetrate kevlar with the same ease.
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Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance,/quote]
I'm trying to think of some examples of this. I thought maybe Nova but that's just a chance they'll take the full damage.
Or are you talking about as a general design philosophy, like, mobs tend to do less damage at range than in melee?
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Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance, so it stands to reason that it might be possible to have the aura diminish as the distance from the user increases.
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I don't believe that there are any attacks in game that have diminished damage based on range. It's technically possible (creating nested cones), but I don't believe it's ever actually been done.
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Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance, so it stands to reason that it might be possible to have the aura diminish as the distance from the user increases.
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I don't believe that there are any attacks in game that have diminished damage based on range. It's technically possible (creating nested cones), but I don't believe it's ever actually been done.
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Lightning Rod does more damage at the center compared to the edges. At least, that is popular opinion. I haven't verified this myself.
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Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance, so it stands to reason that it might be possible to have the aura diminish as the distance from the user increases.
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I don't believe that there are any attacks in game that have diminished damage based on range. It's technically possible (creating nested cones), but I don't believe it's ever actually been done.
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Lightning Rod does more damage at the center compared to the edges. At least, that is popular opinion. I haven't verified this myself.
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Popular opinion would be wrong. Lightning rod creates a single effect with a specific area and deals the same amount of damage to everything within that range. As it stands, there are no attacks in game that deal varying degrees of damage based on distance from origin.
There have been a number of write-ups using existing mechanics (as demonstrated by how Gauntlet is incorporated) in order to achieve a similar effect, but, as of yet, there are no attacks that actually take advantage of this.
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Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance, so it stands to reason that it might be possible to have the aura diminish as the distance from the user increases.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe that there are any attacks in game that have diminished damage based on range. It's technically possible (creating nested cones), but I don't believe it's ever actually been done.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lightning Rod does more damage at the center compared to the edges. At least, that is popular opinion. I haven't verified this myself.
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Popular opinion would be wrong. Lightning rod creates a single effect with a specific area and deals the same amount of damage to everything within that range. As it stands, there are no attacks in game that deal varying degrees of damage based on distance from origin.
There have been a number of write-ups using existing mechanics (as demonstrated by how Gauntlet is incorporated) in order to achieve a similar effect, but, as of yet, there are no attacks that actually take advantage of this.
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Lightning Rod summons a pet that does three pulses of damage, one of which has a much smaller radius than the other two. It's kind of like a dark/dark defender using Torrent, Tenebrious Tentacles, and Sands of Mu in rapid succession (except that it's PBAoE instead of cone) - The first two will hit everything the Mu hits, but the Mu can't reach everything the first two did.
@Roderick
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As it stands, there are no attacks in game that deal varying degrees of damage based on distance from origin.
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Thunder Strike.
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I'm sorry, but "positional resistance" makes zero rational sense. "HA! I'm immune to that knife if you try to stab me with it, but if you step back at least ten feet then throw it at me, it'll hurt like hell!"
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Standard code rant applies, but it doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal to me. They'd just have to add 3 new damage types, Ranged_Damage, Melee_Damage, and AOE_Damage and 3 new resistance types to go with them.
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Not quite. The way the engine works now each damage effect has only ONE damage type associated with it. If a power does both smashing and cold damage, for example, these are separate lines in the list of effects for the power. If you simply added ranged damage as a damage type... what would you do with it?
If a power does 'x smashing and 'y' cold today, how would you add ranged damage? You either have to change the engine to allow multiple damage types per component ('x' ranged/smash + 'y' ranged/cold ) or you'd have to split the power's damage into the added comopnent ('x' smash + 'y' cold + 'z' ranged) such that the total damage remains the same.
Problem with the latter method is it drastically changes the balance of power. Someone who had 50% smash and 50% cold was taking 50% of the total damage from that power is now taking 50% of the 2/3 that is smash + cold and 100% of the ranged damage (assuming they do not have both typed and positional resistance).
Can of worms.
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Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Standard code rant applies, but it doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal to me. They'd just have to add 3 new damage types, Ranged_Damage, Melee_Damage, and AOE_Damage and 3 new resistance types to go with them.
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Not quite. The way the engine works now each damage effect has only ONE damage type associated with it. If a power does both smashing and cold damage, for example, these are separate lines in the list of effects for the power. If you simply added ranged damage as a damage type... what would you do with it?
If a power does 'x smashing and 'y' cold today, how would you add ranged damage? You either have to change the engine to allow multiple damage types per component ('x' ranged/smash + 'y' ranged/cold ) or you'd have to split the power's damage into the added comopnent ('x' smash + 'y' cold + 'z' ranged) such that the total damage remains the same.
Problem with the latter method is it drastically changes the balance of power. Someone who had 50% smash and 50% cold was taking 50% of the total damage from that power is now taking 50% of the 2/3 that is smash + cold and 100% of the ranged damage (assuming they do not have both typed and positional resistance).
Can of worms.
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And I think I would just up and perish, having to throw all that junk into my spreadsheet, augh.
Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
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It could easily *work*, but it will never happen because there is almost no benefit in it and the amount of work required would be a complete overhaul of every npc and pc ability in the game.
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QR
No, "positional resistance" is not possible, without making significant changes to the game. Technically, there's no such thing as "positional defense", either, there's just Defense that happens to be called Ranged_Defense which helps to protect you from an attack vector that happens to be called Ranged_Attack. They could just as easily be called Fluffy_Defense, which protects you from White_Attack, and they would act exactly the same. We call it positional because most offensive powers have one of the three "positional" attack vectors, and because of how they're named.
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Standard code rant applies, but it doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal to me. They'd just have to add 3 new damage types, Ranged_Damage, Melee_Damage, and AOE_Damage and 3 new resistance types to go with them.
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The majority of attacks are already classified as melee, ranged, or AoE. They'd just have to waste time adding the new resistance categories.
Just a thought that popped into my head. We have positional Defense vs. typed Defense. But, as far as I know, all resistances are typed. Do you guys ever think there will be a positional-based resistance set?
Personally, I have a bit trouble seeing the realism in it. Resisting lethal vs. cold seems to make more sense then resisting a sword vs. a bullet.