Team Role for Brutes


Brawlnstein

 

Posted

Hi!

I'm new to the game, and even newer to Bruting. I'm just starting to get my head around the core mechanics of the game, and I started out playing my Brute as essentially a more DPS-oriented tanker.

Fail.

The good news is, I have an actual tanker, so this means I won't have two characters who are redundant with one another.

The question is, how does a Brute play in teams? And I'm just talking mission teams/bank jobs at this point. The character is level 12. XD

How do you do it? Who triggers the alpha? When's a good time to get the taunt/whirling hands type stuff going?

Essentially, how does teaming work for villains?


 

Posted

The great thing about villain side is that none of the AT's really fit into the cookie cutter mold of most MMO's. That being said, i play my Brute's like a scrapper on steroids, i dont care who goes in first, just make it fast or its me and then i smash things till they dont smash so good anymore


 

Posted

I am looking for personalized input from different people on this, by the way. Feel free to tell me how -you- run missions!


 

Posted

Brutes can be tanks, brutes can be scrappers.

Sometimes, if I'm the only brute on the team I'll tank however my Axe/SR is built more like a scrapper (I don't have taunt and my taunt aura is slotted for def/end redux).

Most brutes I know of, unless they're a tanking style build rather than a scrapper style build, wont pick up taunt.

Whirling axe was the last power I picked up, 4 slotted it with 3 acc/damage set IOs (Frankenslotting) and one generic endurance reduction IO.

Basically if I'm not tanking on teams I run her as a scrapper, run into a mob SMASH, run into next mob, SMASH and so on. Fury really does encourage this playstyle...running from one group to the next.

It also encourages Brutes to take the Alpha since they not only get fury from attacking but from being attacked and being the target of an Alpha means you get a load of fury.

At level 12 though you can't play as a slave to the SMASH, most Brutes suffer heavy endurance problems early on but you'll probably play more like a scrapper (since you won't have all your defenses in place) than a tank at that level.

Those are my personal experiences.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Brutes can be tanks, brutes can be scrappers.

Sometimes, if I'm the only brute on the team I'll tank however my Axe/SR is built more like a scrapper (I don't have taunt and my taunt aura is slotted for def/end redux).

Most brutes I know of, unless they're a tanking style build rather than a scrapper style build, wont pick up taunt.

Whirling axe was the last power I picked up, 4 slotted it with 3 acc/damage set IOs (Frankenslotting) and one generic endurance reduction IO.

Basically if I'm not tanking on teams I run her as a scrapper, run into a mob SMASH, run into next mob, SMASH and so on. Fury really does encourage this playstyle...running from one group to the next.

It also encourages Brutes to take the Alpha since they not only get fury from attacking but from being attacked and being the target of an Alpha means you get a load of fury.

At level 12 though you can't play as a slave to the SMASH, most Brutes suffer heavy endurance problems early on but you'll probably play more like a scrapper (since you won't have all your defenses in place) than a tank at that level.

Those are my personal experiences.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input.

With a lot of the questions I'm asking, I'm finding the answers to generally be "Hang tight until later levels."

Would you mind giving me some pointers on an EM/EA build? As far as which powers to skip, which to absolutely take, how slot allocation, etc. It'd be a huge help.

EDIT: Pointers on both tanking and dedicated DPS would be great, although I'm a tank in my heart, if you were going to pick one or the other to give me help with.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I am looking for personalized input from different people on this, by the way. Feel free to tell me how -you- run missions!

[/ QUOTE ]

I use my Super-strength to rip the door off the hinges of the mission. Then I storm in and find the first group I can. I'll laugh at their puny attempts to harm me, and then I'll put my foot down! Rawr!

Seriously Brutes are all about smash. In the early days you'll be expected to absorb most of the alphas due to your higher hit points, and also as a courtesy for you to build rage. Later on this might change depending on what kind of Dom's, or Masterminds you might group with. You can build to tank, but most don't bother. No one on the dark side complains either since villains are pretty self contained.

Oh, and about whirling hands type attacks. Use point blank area attacks (cone attacks you'll need to practice on lining them up) when you can get as many targets in it's range. Usually those attacks have high endurance costs, and low damage if you only use it on one target. So maximize it's attributes by hitting as many targets as you can!


 

Posted

Eh, I just rush in to the first mob I see. Start poundin on stuff, don't really care who or what. Soon as there isn't anything else to punch in the face I find something else. A teammate will do if I could. If I die, I die. Usually I don't. Just point me in the direction where ya want the carnage, that's where I'll go.


 

Posted

If you are set on a tank, you are going to be bitterly disappointed with brutes.

Brutes are brutes. We revolve around the fury bar which leads some to believe we are scrappers or tanks. We want the aggro for fury, so you'd think we're protecting your squishy butt, but we could care less about you. We just want our fury bar. We're also in a hurry to get things done (like scrappers), but it's because we don't want our fury dropping, so we behave like both, but for different reasons.

Our motivations are different, and our playstyle is going to be different, even if the observed behavior might be similar.

For choices, I recommend the first brute experience to be anything/willpower. Pick a primary that looks cool to you. It really doesn't matter which.


 

Posted

I don't often play my brute as a tank intentionally. If can survive a group I'll likely be the first one in just because I'm impatient and fast. Usually if I'm actually tanking for a team they're buffing me to the point where I am a tank, otherwise they can fend for themselves. I tend to take taunt in the later levels because it comes in handy for getting things to chase you rather than you chasing them.

Most useful advice I can offer is that inspirations are your friend. I keep 3 Lucks, because in a jam you won't die if you eat 3 Lucks... usually. The rest of my inspirations I eat often. If my inspiration tray fills up, as a reflex I start mashing F1 to get rid of them. They drop frequently no sense in not using them. Also, most of the times when I get a wakie I just delete it. They don't keep you alive and if you die in a place where you can use a wakie safely you're more of a [censored] than a brute.


 

Posted

Okay, so after some advice-taking here, a curious revelation has occured to me.

Brutes are not tanks. Who knew.

Anyway, now I'm having a -lot- more fun. XD So thanks, all of you.

However, I still have some questions about my build.

As EM/EA with jump, how should I be slotting my powers? Is there a general rule of thumb for this? I've looked for guides, but all of them I've found have either been too vague, or just out of date.


 

Posted

when im on my MM i treat brutes like scrappers that are tough enough to not need micro managing.

as for slotting, my rule of thumb on attacks is if activation time < 1.5 slot recharge first, if 1.5 or more then slot damage first.


 

Posted

Isn't there sortof a universal rule regarding accuracy slotting? You want 99% (three slots?) for all of your attacks, correct?

Also, for this build (EM/EA), should I plan for Stamina (Fitness) or will the electric goodness cover me for endurance?


 

Posted

1 or 2 accuracy. 1 Endurance 1 Recharge, the rest damage, is now I normally roll. I always allow for stamina but I have not played /elec so not too sure about if it is "needed" or not.

From my understanding since it does not have any sort of heal you will also want to make room for aid self.

And could you clarify what you mean by EM/EA. Normally the E stands for Energy so your build would be Energy Melee/Energy Aura. However, you mentioned elec so not sure if you are Elec Melee or Elec Armor. If both then it would be Elec/Elec instead of EM/EA. By your previous post I am guessing you are /Elec but not sure.


 

Posted

Op, I don't have much posting time, but I do have extensive experience with the subject.

First off, don't let anyone tell you that you can't tank. You can, it depends on the powerset. The wonderful thing about Brutes are the variety of sets. For instance, Stone and Invuln can tank just fine (I have both level capped, slotted only with regular IO's) whereas /Fire and maybe /Elec are more offensively geared.

Read some guides, do your homework, but never let anyone tell you that you can't do something in the game, because you can.


 

Posted

I have three main high lvl brutes and play all a little differently. I am an oddball who takes taunt but I don't exactly play as a tanker per se. Most of my builds have tons of +recharge so I don't worry too much about adding TOO many attacks, b/c I just don't have time to cycle through them all. I think, for my playstyle, taunt is invaluable and helpful in almost any situation.

My first main is a /FA and I find her to be the most survivable. Perhaps because of the high recharge and healing flames, but I always take alpha and kill everything I can. She always bounces back and has a number of tricks to increase survivability. She is my main SF toon, and I like being the only brute on teams so I can eat alpha and always have full fury. She kills stuff the quickest of all my toons, and I always find myself testing out the old fiery aura of adage of "kill them before they kill you". Also, if on a co-op team, I rarely pick up tanks, so I find myself tanking AVs often. This isn't a problem for me, as I know the ins and outs of /FA fairly well, and I always take time to build a well balanced team.

On my /Inv, I play almost the same way, but perhaps a bit more cautiously because she is not quite as IOd and well built as my /FA. Dull pain is near perma, and with an attentive kin in the ranks, I never worry about it dropping. She is plenty tough, but I find her to kill notably slower than my fiery aura brute. Also, the game is a bit less thrilling as she eats alpha. I think the spikes in my HP bar make /fiery aura exciting and engaging.

I also have a /SR, but I find she is the least tank like of the bunch. Perhaps because of the nature of /SR or maybe the way I have her IOd, she just doesn't feel as tough as the other two. Consequently, I play her even more cautiously than the other two. I am convinced RNG hates me, as I am past softcapped for defense, yet still plant more than I want to admit.

As others have pointed out, the great thing about redside is that just about any AT can take alpha with less difficulty than their blue counterparts. The only classic red AT I see opening alpha on a mob with more reservation than the others are corruptors.
- Brutes have high HP to rely on for opening up a mob
- Dominators can hit a control/mezz for their opener
- stalkers can hit a placate/fear after opening up with an AS
- Masterminds can of course go in body guard mode/sacrifice a few pets and keep moving

Most teams roll fast enough so that rolling into the next mob becomes a race anyway. Redside toons have flexibility in roles, and I think that is one of the greatest in-game mechanics of the game. No AT is needed for anything, and where Blue ATs are flexible, I find that Red ATs are contortionists.

So in sum, you can build your brute to fill whatever role you like, so long as you SMASH! everything in your path. I like the role of conscious berserker. Most of the time, I play like the Hulk (when he retained most of his intelligence and reasoning, despite the transformation). Not mindless, but certainly ready to lay waste to everything in my way.


Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.

"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality

 

Posted

"Team Role for Brutes"

SMASH!!!!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
If you are set on a tank, you are going to be bitterly disappointed with brutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got to disagree with that wording. Brutes have nigh the same potential for tanking goodness as Tankers they simply don't self buff as strongly. Even that varies from powerset to powerset, ie: Stone Melee and Stone Armor versus, say, Electric Melee and Electric Armor. IO's can really shore up defenses immensely. Softcapping positional defenses with a powerset like Shield Defense makes you amazingly tough.

I guess it's a bit powerset dependent though so it would be easy to get the wrong impression and getting a decent set of buffs from a team would really swing that impression.

Edit: I realize that maybe you would be bitterly disappointed if you wanted the slow, plodding offense that usually comes with a tank. That's true, brutes are way faster in my experience.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't there sortof a universal rule regarding accuracy slotting? You want 99% (three slots?) for all of your attacks, correct?

Also, for this build (EM/EA), should I plan for Stamina (Fitness) or will the electric goodness cover me for endurance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy moly, if you can spare the slots I GUESS you could. I used to be pretty satisfied with a single SO but now I aim for ~40 percent with some global bonuses and an aegis if I can. A mix of accuracy and to hit and judicious/intelligent use of Build Up style powers. If you can swing 99% accuracy without negatively affecting other aspects of the power then, of course, that would be better than 40%.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Op, I don't have much posting time, but I do have extensive experience with the subject.

First off, don't let anyone tell you that you can't tank. You can, it depends on the powerset. The wonderful thing about Brutes are the variety of sets. For instance, Stone and Invuln can tank just fine (I have both level capped, slotted only with regular IO's) whereas /Fire and maybe /Elec are more offensively geared.

Read some guides, do your homework, but never let anyone tell you that you can't do something in the game, because you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've built my Stone/Stone to be more of a tank in the sense that I teleport in, hit taunt and give that big pack of mob's a huge hug before I knock 'em around. Granite allows you to do that.

I do have an EM/EA brute that is sitting at level 28 now and I'm finding that I'm more of a tough scrapper. I can take an alpha and get in there and hold the focus of aggro on me. If there's another brute on the team with my EA brute then I play the carnage role and just do as much damage as I can as fast as I can. Brutes are a beast all their own but they are fun to play and once you get a good taste of them you'll love them dearly. I do.


-------------------------
Justice Heroes:
Sparkerella 16 Ele/Ele Blaster
Sonic Defensebot 11 Sonic Defender

Justice Villains:
Stone Asylum 31 Stoner Brute
Ms. Synister 22 EM/EA Brute

 

Posted

You can tank with a Brute.. Some sets are just better than others to do so. Basic slotting I use is 1-2 acc 2 end redx in every attack. Then at about lvl 40ish I slot 2 acc 1 end or rec and 2-3 dam. With my EM/ELA I kept barrage until after Total Focus, then I respec'd and my attacks are Energy Punch, Bone Smasher Build Up, Total Focus and Energy Transfer.

In terms of play style. I play my brute however I see fit during the team. If the team needs a tank, I can been that and take alphas just fine. If the team as a tank, I will just beat the crap out of anything in my way. But don't let anyone try to tell you that you have to play YOUR brute any particular way.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are set on a tank, you are going to be bitterly disappointed with brutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got to disagree with that wording. Brutes have nigh the same potential for tanking goodness as Tankers they simply don't self buff as strongly. Even that varies from powerset to powerset, ie: Stone Melee and Stone Armor versus, say, Electric Melee and Electric Armor. IO's can really shore up defenses immensely. Softcapping positional defenses with a powerset like Shield Defense makes you amazingly tough.

I guess it's a bit powerset dependent though so it would be easy to get the wrong impression and getting a decent set of buffs from a team would really swing that impression.

Edit: I realize that maybe you would be bitterly disappointed if you wanted the slow, plodding offense that usually comes with a tank. That's true, brutes are way faster in my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I often find that those that treat their brutes as if they are tanks are disappointed with their defensive performance due to less HP and res/def, especially pre-set IOs. A brute can be a tank and can be played like one, but it is best effective if played like a ... brute.

You see this on the forums when people ask why their brute can't survive a fight. Often it is because they are not aggressively decimating everything in their path and are more concerned with herding mobs. This isn't to say we shouldn't herd or be meat shields. It is that our purpose for doing so is for increasing our destruction.

Play brutes like the hulk, not superman.


 

Posted

The problem here(CoV) is that either every other AT has low life points or no "real" tanking is done. MM's send pets in, low levels know this to be torture. Stalkers spam said AoE if they picked a defensive set like WP or SR. My main problem with CoV is the lack of knowing which role people play. Corr's are blaster with heals/buff/debuffs, yet obviously people rather blast than support. Stalkers are the ignored step child of WoW Rouges and have great survivability but again...not tanking.

And doms...Doms will always be the "off off way off" tanks mainly due to IO's which make players into soft cap squishies. Even then I would like more def or res on Brute secondaries. I hate that people try to change the idea of tanking....the one thing that has never been changed for decades. Thankfully second builds have been implemented which make switching from Scrank to all out tank, less of a problem.

To the OP: Make a Brute because they get taunt and taunt aura's, yeah they hit hard but they gave them health for a reason, treat it like a tank that hits harder. Every other AT, literally focus on dmg, on big teams play the role of tank for organized reasons.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

If there's any tank in CoV, it's a Mastermind, with not only expendable pets but Bodyguard Mode.

You're a slightly tougher, slower to get going Scrapper, pretty much.


 

Posted

As a young Brute myself (currently 18), I found that slotting 2 endurance DOs was much better than just a single one. Brutes need to go nonstop to do loads of damage, and this really eats away at the endurance!

If you are still looking for a fun Brute to build, try a DM/WP Brute. You will have quick animations and quick recharges as well as a spot heal through siphon life to assist your regeneration based WP set. At 18, I took Dark Consumption and love it, but I may respec out of it once I am able to take stamina and quick recovery.


 

Posted

That idea is only made famous by high level IO users who either make a tough mm set (Robots/FF, or anything FF) or people who believe bodyguard can take all alpha's...which it can not. I understand the point of letting expendable pets take the dmg, but thats not why I made a Brute. This is the main reason CoH gets padded more. The roles are simple, and can become aggressive if needed(Illusion trollers tanking etc) but there is usually only one blueprint.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."