Brutes aren't borked - they're arguably overpowered, if you listen to the Tanker and Scrapper forums.
Energy Aura is better than it ever has been, since the positional set bonuses which were all over the place and typically 2-3x larger than the typed defense bonuses were made to include half of their value in typed defense as well. It's much easier to softcap everything except Psi, and if you can tolerate the long animations of your "best" attacks in EM you should be fine.
Elec/Elec isn't a bad combination either, but Electric Armor has a post-IO reputation for being frail because it doesn't have any self-heal, no +hp, and doesn't have any layers. If you use Power Sink offensively with Lightning Field to drain mobs and keep their endurance low, you can still get good mileage out of it, but while it's one of the better sets with just SOs it doesn't benefit as much from IOs because the devs have this twisted idea of how available +resistance set bonuses should be compared to +defense. Since it only has resistance and endurance drain working for it, there's nothing to really stack the other bonuses with and going for +defense will net you smaller values that go away quickly because there's no defense debuff resistance. But it's still sturdy when built well, it just requires more effort than Willpower, for example, or more IO investment than Super Reflexes.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Electric Melee needs dev attention. Perhaps not for balance (though a boost in single target damage would be nice at times)
There are two bugs in Electric Melee, due to pets. Now, based on the statement in issue 15 that armageddon no longer damages users in powers like burn, it would seem that this possibly may now be fixed - I don't know, and haven't bothered to test it yet.
The second bug is that placing procs into chained induction means that the power no longer has the 100% chance to jump, but only when the proc fires. You wind up with a mediocre single-target attack.
Those two things are borked. You deal with it by avoiding putting in procs in the powers, but you also lose some of the flexibility other sets have.
Everything Siolfir said about electric armor is true. It isn't as good as other sets when it comes to IO investment. I can cap SR, EA, Shield. I can add recharge to /fire for a faster heal. Willpower is fine as is, which leaves dark, which is well, not popular.
Elec/Elec is fun. It is not the best, and I will admit there are times where the 'grass is greener' feeling really will get you you.
As for WM/EA, both sets were buffed. That thread serves as a source of amusement. Clobber is great. EA, with the adjustments to IO sets is also quite good (the improvements to the powerset are okay, but really the IO set bonus tweaks are what did it)
Roll any brute. Then SMASH. It doesn't really matter. You might not be the king of SMASH, but you will SMASH, and you will love it.
I agree for the most part with Siolfir. Brutes take the best attributes of Tankers and Scrappers and wipe everything out in their path. Certainly, there are some defensive sets that require a bit more investment with IOs and strategy to really shine.
Sure, some sets might need some work, but to bring up EA (which was recently buffed) as a weak link and apply that across the whole AT of Brutes is silly. There are people who will claim there are problems with probably every set across every AT.
Some people can't get with fury, and they claim it is too hard to maintain- but I have never had that issue.
I want to ask you a question: what is your opinion regarding your brute? Do you enjoy the brute? If so, just because you read somewhere that someone is trashing brutes, would you change your opinion? Just enjoy the game and to hell with what everyone is saying on the forums.
Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
I usually take that approach to boards, since usually most of what is typed is motivated by anger, confusion and the need to vent.
Maybe I'm spoiled by the Scrapper forum, where the standard answer to the age old question, "Which Scrapper primary/secondary is best?" is usually "any/any."
While browsing the Brute forum, I get the distinct feeling that there is a clear opinion that there are a lot of problems with certain sets, and that these are really bad problems, and I'd like to avoid sets that have glaring weaknesses (like I've never played a Fire/ Tank or /Fire Scrapper, no -KB).
I guess I should take my own advice and run them for 6 or 8 levels to see if it fits.
My altitis will get its fill this weekend...
I would take them farther then level 6 or level 8. My personal preference is up to level 22 for stamina and SOs. Then I determine if I want the other 28 levels on this character.
So brutes r gud, dey smash gud and r gud. k?
Most glaring weaknesses, epecially ones like lack of KB protection, are easily filled with IOs nowadays. You don't even need to take acrobatics to fix that issue.
There is no one set that is the end all be all for everyone. None of us will ever agree that one set is the "best" unanimously. For example- some people swear by their Stone armor, and I know that is at the bottom of my list of want to plays. Yeah, the survivability is great, but I know it isn't for me.
Best is one of those words that is extremely subjective. I am convinced, moreover, that there is nothing objective about such a word. Yes, you might find a build that is numerically superior in paper in one regard or another, but there are a plethora of factors that can instantly and radically alter game play.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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Most glaring weaknesses, epecially ones like lack of KB protection, are easily filled with IOs nowadays. You don't even need to take acrobatics to fix that issue.
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Well for /elec grounded is the key, it works alot better now then it did back in the day, when you didn't even have the KB protection on ramps /em shudder the problem is if you are up in the air for a bit (Like during Hami raids) no kb protection
Seriously though play what you feel like Elec/elec (for me at least) is more of a scrapperlock style of play then the /stone brute (who thinks they are tankers)
Heh, no. We aren't broken. At least not in the underpowered sense. We're better than fine. Sure, not as tough as tankers for eating alphas, but that's what MM pets or inspirations are for. We do a metric crapton of damage, and are pretty friggin tough.
Only way I'd call Brutes borked is the way they make all other ATs slightly boring for me to play. 
There's some inter-AT balance issues, where certain sets are noticeably better than others, but every single primary and secondary will let you get your SMASH on just fine. Even the worst primary and secondary choices will leave you a competent brute. I would suggest not worrying about it at all.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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I took an EM/EA back at launch to 39, but that was ages and an old account ago.
I am really, really trying to get back into CoV, but the negativity (a STICKIED thread about how suxor /EA is? Good grief!) about them has made me wary.
In fact, I wanted to try something fun and different, so I rolled and Elec/Elec.
Then I hit the boards for build advice and was stunned. Could all of the negativity be true? It seems like nothing but negative posts about it, the most recent guide was from I7 and now I'm thinking, either I'll run this to 50 just to show them or I'm wasting my time.
Is it just that since I bought a VW bug, all I notice is VW bugs or is it that Brute's need some serious Dev attention?
Any advice for the Elect/Elect Brute noob?
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Dude, the only thing that's borked about brutes is how you'll never want to play another AT again.
The defense sets available to brutes scale very nicely from offensive to defensive and everything in between. With Invuln being the odd man out by being both amazing at defensive and also granting a larget tohit bonus to subtract somewhat from required attack slotting.
As a person that regularly cycles through reading all the AT forums I never really noticed the disparity, but, it's true. "any/any" is often a touted answer on the Scrapper forums while you see more negativity on the Tanker and Brute forums. I think this is actually because some of the Tanker and Brute sets can achieve such fantastic results that you end up setting your sights a bit too high when trying other combinations. Sets like (old) EM, Stone Melee and Armor, Super Strength etc. really let you do some amazing things and aren't available to Scrappers.
So I'd just adjust what you are seeing in the negativity up a few notches in general. Folks made tons of Elm/Ela when the sets hit and had bugs out the wazoo and still loved it to heck and back.
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In fact, I wanted to try something fun and different, so I rolled and Elec/Elec.
Then I hit the boards for build advice and was stunned. Could all of the negativity be true? It seems like nothing but negative posts about it, the most recent guide was from I7 and now I'm thinking, either I'll run this to 50 just to show them or I'm wasting my time.
Any advice for the Elect/Elect Brute noob?
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It plays as an Offensive build. Tanking isn't what it does. Just rush in and lay down the AoE's as fast as you can, building momentum as you go.
It lacks some of the tools to make it the sturdiest, Tankiest thing out there.
However, it has:
Limitless Endurance. 2-slotted Stamina+6-slotted Power Sink make Conserve Power redundant.
The ability to Sap mobs for luz.
Immunity to EndDrain. Look in the AE and you should be able to find an all Sappers and walk through it with a smirk. (As long as you took Grounded.)
Pretty Red Lightning for Energy Damage. Many foes don't like getting hit by Energy damage.
A +RunSpeed, +Recharge passive power (Quickness-clone)
Against certain foes (Freakshow, Rikti, etc.) it does quite well, as it has excellent resistance against Energy Damage.
It has a few weaknesses though, as you've heard. Stay far, far away from anything doing Toxic damage.
I'd put Lightning Field (The PBAoE damage toggle) off until after Stamina, and slot it two EndRed, 1 Acc, 2 Damage. Using IO's, squeeze that performance into four slots and EndMod the other two.
Even after "buffing" EA is still remarkably lower class than the other secondaries pre-IO slotting.
Elec/Elec? Gremlins of d00m?! You bet. Plenty of red textures for you, my friend. Good AoE, good sapping, great endurance mileage, but a less than average turn out even after spending a bundle on IOs.
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Brutes aren't borked - they're arguably overpowered
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Immunity to EndDrain. Look in the AE and you should be able to find an all Sappers and walk through it with a smirk. (As long as you took Grounded.)
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I filled a map with sappers on my elec for fun. Let's just say that if you surround yourself on a map set for 8 with sappers, even elec gets drained.
To the OP:
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I took an EM/EA back at launch to 39, but that was ages and an old account ago.
I am really, really trying to get back into CoV, but the negativity (a STICKIED thread about how suxor /EA is? Good grief!) about them has made me wary.
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The sticky started long time ago. Since then, there were changes to IO that dramatically helped typed-defense sets and some minor improvements to EA. So, the sticky probably doesn't quite represent the situation of EA now.
If you spend some inf and time on EA, the experience should be quite enjoyable overall. To some people, the strong stealth may not fit their brute concepts, and conserve power may seem redundant. My personal complaint is that there are several attributes that are very thematic to energy aura but they are not added to the set.
And actually, if EA really doesn't work, it would have been improved long time ago. If you ever go through the sticky thread, while some people think that EA is bad, some of us think that it's ok and only ask for some tweaks. The sticky simply serves as a place for people to discuss without creating an EA thread over and over again throughout the years.
In the forum, the negative comments may not correspond to real situations. Also, people may have certain expectation about a set, and if the set doesn't play out as they want, they think the set has a problem. I think you can read the forum, but you've to judge by your own experience.
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In fact, I wanted to try something fun and different, so I rolled and Elec/Elec.
Then I hit the boards for build advice and was stunned. Could all of the negativity be true? It seems like nothing but negative posts about it, the most recent guide was from I7 and now I'm thinking, either I'll run this to 50 just to show them or I'm wasting my time.
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For /elec, I think the power set itself is ok. Because of the ease to enhance defense through IO bonus, defense power sets can easily self soft-cap defense and they have some resistance to defense debuff at least. So, defense power sets have much higher performance compared to pre-IO era. For resistance sets, I think it's usually not quite clear how to optimize survival through IO bonus. Therefore, power sets like /elec may fall below the curve at high levels. I'm not sure if this is really a problem of the power set itself or some issues with the grand design of the game.
Brutes? Borked?
What the hell?
In PvP maybe, but in PvE they're machines of death.
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Immunity to EndDrain. Look in the AE and you should be able to find an all Sappers and walk through it with a smirk. (As long as you took Grounded.)
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I filled a map with sappers on my elec for fun. Let's just say that if you surround yourself on a map set for 8 with sappers, even elec gets drained.
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Ah, you did it on a map set for 8? That would be different than what I did.
Still, if that is what it takes to drain an /Elec, then we shouldn't complain. I tried herding Sappers on an indoor map and it took a fair number before the End bar started noticing it.
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Immunity to EndDrain. Look in the AE and you should be able to find an all Sappers and walk through it with a smirk. (As long as you took Grounded.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I filled a map with sappers on my elec for fun. Let's just say that if you surround yourself on a map set for 8 with sappers, even elec gets drained.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, you did it on a map set for 8? That would be different than what I did.
Still, if that is what it takes to drain an /Elec, then we shouldn't complain. I tried herding Sappers on an indoor map and it took a fair number before the End bar started noticing it.
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And then you hit Power Sink and are good until it recharges again.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
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Brutes aren't borked - they're arguably overpowered, if you listen to the Tanker and Scrapper forums.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't get that impression reading the Scrapper forums everyday.
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Immunity to EndDrain. Look in the AE and you should be able to find an all Sappers and walk through it with a smirk. (As long as you took Grounded.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I filled a map with sappers on my elec for fun. Let's just say that if you surround yourself on a map set for 8 with sappers, even elec gets drained.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, you did it on a map set for 8? That would be different than what I did.
Still, if that is what it takes to drain an /Elec, then we shouldn't complain. I tried herding Sappers on an indoor map and it took a fair number before the End bar started noticing it.
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And then you hit Power Sink and are good until it recharges again.
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Yep. Power Sink. Much love for the Power Sink. 
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Brutes aren't borked - they're arguably overpowered, if you listen to the Tanker and Scrapper forums.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't get that impression reading the Scrapper forums everyday.
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Was going by the opinions expressed (loudly) in the two threads linked to in my sig (results are in, and results are in take two). When it was shown that only counting primaries Brute did slightly more than Scrappers with Fury built up, there was a lot of "we need a buff" and "they need a nerf" going on.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
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Brutes aren't borked - they're arguably overpowered, if you listen to the Tanker and Scrapper forums.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't get that impression reading the Scrapper forums everyday.
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Was going by the opinions expressed (loudly) in the two threads linked to in my sig (results are in, and results are in take two). When it was shown that only counting primaries Brute did slightly more than Scrappers with Fury built up, there was a lot of "we need a buff" and "they need a nerf" going on.
[/ QUOTE ] Ah yes, I remember those threads. There was definitely some of that going on.
Personally, I don't think Brutes are overpowered. The difference wasn't huge.
I took an EM/EA back at launch to 39, but that was ages and an old account ago.
I am really, really trying to get back into CoV, but the negativity (a STICKIED thread about how suxor /EA is? Good grief!) about them has made me wary.
In fact, I wanted to try something fun and different, so I rolled and Elec/Elec.
Then I hit the boards for build advice and was stunned. Could all of the negativity be true? It seems like nothing but negative posts about it, the most recent guide was from I7 and now I'm thinking, either I'll run this to 50 just to show them or I'm wasting my time.
Is it just that since I bought a VW bug, all I notice is VW bugs or is it that Brute's need some serious Dev attention?
Any advice for the Elect/Elect Brute noob?