Thoughts on making MA better for storytellers?
By
Alari_Azure,
Posted on: 2009-06-18 21:23 in Mission Architect
1. Proper spawn point control and placement tools.
This is -sorta- possible with indoor maps, but outdoor maps, forget it. And you end up with stuff that makes no sense such as having to run to the end of the map to meet a person and then travel back to the entrance to find the person said person was supposed to help you meet.
2. Ability to NPC possess when other people are running your arcs, if they consent to it.
It definately needs the ability to put multiple objectives in one place and a cutscene maker. For example: I tried to make an origin story for a hero, and he was suposed to be talking to Statesman, but I was never able to get anything of the sort out of the MA. The new Parameters like: Comedy, Horror, Origin, etc. Can't be added if we can't do these things.
Sig of Black Mercenary
What else do you want?
I want more dialog options.
If Ally is hurt. If Ally gets to 50% Damage.
Escort to glowie, preferring multiple glowies with unique dialog by the escort for each point.
Make a boss despawn when spotted/hurt/50% health/etc.
Make boss objective allow completion when they flee.
Give clue for boss defeat, and not the entire spawn.
Freeedom
H: Victra Defile (Rad/Dark) & Hot Hits (Fire/SD)
V: Spike Cream (NW) & Crescent Wind (Nin/Storm)
Sub Hero Inc ARC: 1541
--If you don't like what I have to say, it was probably a typo you are refering to.
I'd like:
Escort to another objective.
All maps available.
Boss teleport away on defeat animation.
Spawn point selection.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like:
Escort to another objective.
All maps available.
Boss teleport away on defeat animation.
Spawn point selection.
Eco
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, all of the above.
[ QUOTE ]
1. Proper spawn point control and placement tools.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will strongly second this. I've built five-mish SFMArcs and found them solid through three test runs, only to have the third or fourth player who tried them after publication message me with "boss won't spawn" or "where's the real objective?" messages. Placement seems to be hit-or-miss, and some maps swallow up objectives entirely (the Atlas Meteor map gulped down a bomb needed for completion of a timed mish).
Tighter control of spawn points would certainly help me a lot in mishcrafting, but more clarity in the description would be a nice first step. For example, what do back/middle/front mean with a two-level indoor map? Why can I completely fill front and middle spawn points with red herrings and place my true ("Required for Completion") objective at map back, only to have either (a) my true objective show up in front anyway, or (b) my true objective not show up at all?
I know this doesn't sound much like a ST issue, but it is: I need to be able to control the flow of a mish so that the story "reads" as intended. If my boss is to arrive in response to an alarm on an objective at the back of the map, for instance, I need that objective to BE at the back of the map, and I need the boss to spawn at the front of the map...consistently, from test through every published play. Kinda-sorta just doesn't cut it.
I'll also second the poster who wants more dialog options, and I'll add "more dialog space." I routinely run out of space and have to truncate my dialog/clues/what-have-you. I know this doesn't make much difference to PLers/Farmers, who probably don't bother with the text anyway, but the limited space for text really undercuts RP/ST mishcrafting. And I'm not writing for PLers/Farmers...They have their own thing going on, and MA currently serves their needs far better than it serves mine.
Don't get me wrong: I love MA as an ideal. As a work-in-progress, it shows much promise. And I know we're just starting out here. I hope to be crafting newer and better arcs with newer and better tools for some time to come. But we need those tools and the ability to use them with precision.
I want a friggin' SCRIPTING LANGUAGE in there! 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Area-based event triggers, like how moving within a certain distance triggers a cut-scene. Events could be a clue or descriptive text, sound effect, music cue, spring a trap, ambush, etc etc. Maybe even a cut-scene.
From an evil farmer here. We would use spawn point placement to jam pack a map full of mobs.
While I do agree that it would be a great tool for storytelling as well, you have to think like us evil farmers and how it could be abused.
Stuff I would love MA to have:
1. Dialog NPCs - NPCs that say something or drop clues when clicked.
2. Branching Missions - On mission failure, proceed to mission 2, else proceed to mission 3.
3. Deactivation of objectives by completion of other objectives - For example, hacking into base's computer network removes all robot patrols. Finding Uberboss' weakness despawns Uberboss and spawns weakened Uberboss.
4. Multiple Contacts in an Arc - I'd like it to be possible to have a different contact each mission.
[ QUOTE ]
Hi,
I am struggling to find the best discussions on the ways we might extend or improve MA so that it works as a storytelling and RP mechanism. I know there has been a lot of discussion about farming, but it seems to me that AE is one of the best implemented features in CoH, but missing a few key features to make it actually work for the more story and socially inclined players.
Any suggestions for threads that I should check out?
Cheers,
Sib
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Spawn placement
2. Map Editor - with full control of map layout, elevator placement, tilesets, object placement, lighting, etc.
3. Increase the cap from 100k
4. Increased text field size. Some are limited to either 300 or 1000 characters.
5. Multiple contacts in an arc ( 2 per mission - for the intro and on exit )
6. Selectable music ( mission intro, placeable on the map, on on mission exit )
7. Allow creation of a bank type map where multiple missions can be spawned in sequence, while on the map.
8. Branching missions - dependent on user actions
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
[ QUOTE ]
Hi,
I am struggling to find the best discussions on the ways we might extend or improve MA so that it works as a storytelling and RP mechanism. I know there has been a lot of discussion about farming, but it seems to me that AE is one of the best implemented features in CoH, but missing a few key features to make it actually work for the more story and socially inclined players.
Any suggestions for threads that I should check out?
Cheers,
Sib
[/ QUOTE ]
lol
Looks l like you started one!
My quick list would be ::
<ul type="square">[*]Allowing players that aren't the leader to read the contact text (Yeah, sure they can do this by clicking on the info/red explosion, but not many player seem to know about that).[*]A contact like logic-tree for taking with allies.[*]More text space in dialog areas. 100 characters is kind of low in a lot of situations.[*]RP Players understanding that if they really want players to have time to read everything in a mission they should not be making timed missions unless they are setting to the maximum amount of time. Players aren't going to have time to read if they are in a rush to get things done.[*]RP players understanding that the missions should be about the player running the mission and not the characters they put in the mission. That is to say that the allies, etc. should not run the show. The players should be the focal point and the players should be doing most of the fighting, etc. Allies that rob xp, etc. from players are not appreciated (at least by me).[*]RP players understanding that some (if not many) players don't take time to read the dialog or care about the RP element of the missions.[*]More mechanisms to stop farming.[*]DEVs standing by their word to punish players for using the MA for farming and power-leveling.[*]More players caring about stories rather than quick xp in general.[*]More Players understanding that "playing" CoX does not "start" at level 50.[*] Moving the AE trainer contact out of the lower level zones.[*] Locking higher level characters out of the AE missions in lower level zones so that they can't lure lower level characters into content based on their jaded point-of-view.[/list]
[...and, yes, I have 3 50's, 4 more level 40+, 11 between 30-39, 8 between 25-29, 25 between 20-24, 27 between 15-19, 44 between 10-14, 13 between 5-9, and 3 level 4 or less...the lower level zones are for lower leveled characters. Higher-level characters are hogging the broadcast in the lower level zones and that is not a good thing for any game.]
...
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
[ QUOTE ]
Locking higher level characters out of the AE missions in lower level zones so that they can't lure lower level characters into content based on their jaded point-of-view.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I am all in favor of kicking 50s out of Cap and Atlas, all this would do would turn the high-level zones into MA farm central. Lowbies looking for Portal Corp farms made it to PI, they could make it there for MA farms as well. Then high-level characters who wish to play and create legitimate AE content would be stuck sharing the buildings in high-level zones with swarms of farmers, instead of having the option to go to a low-traffic zone.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
8. Branching missions - dependent on user actions
[/ QUOTE ]
That.
[ QUOTE ]
...
[/ QUOTE ]
Not better^^
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Locking higher level characters out of the AE missions in lower level zones so that they can't lure lower level characters into content based on their jaded point-of-view.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I am all in favor of kicking 50s out of Cap and Atlas, all this would do would turn the high-level zones into MA farm central. Lowbies looking for Portal Corp farms made it to PI, they could make it there for MA farms as well. Then high-level characters who wish to play and create legitimate AE content would be stuck sharing the buildings in high-level zones with swarms of farmers, instead of having the option to go to a low-traffic zone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I decided to go to the AE building in Steel yesterday to see if there were mobs of people there like there are in AP. It was completely empty except for me & the NPCs. It would be like heaven to go there when writing/editing missions. No spam and no lag FTW! 
No AV/EBs Deal with The Devil's Pawn-207266 Slash DeMento and the Stolen Weapons-100045 Meet the Demon Spawn-151099 Feedback
[ QUOTE ]
From an evil farmer here. We would use spawn point placement to jam pack a map full of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think what people mean when they say this is to assign details more specifically to existing spawn locations than the current "front, middle, back" categorizations, not to add spawns that aren't already there.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Locking higher level characters out of the AE missions in lower level zones so that they can't lure lower level characters into content based on their jaded point-of-view.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I am all in favor of kicking 50s out of Cap and Atlas, all this would do would turn the high-level zones into MA farm central. Lowbies looking for Portal Corp farms made it to PI, they could make it there for MA farms as well. Then high-level characters who wish to play and create legitimate AE content would be stuck sharing the buildings in high-level zones with swarms of farmers, instead of having the option to go to a low-traffic zone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I decided to go to the AE building in Steel yesterday to see if there were mobs of people there like there are in AP. It was completely empty except for me & the NPCs. It would be like heaven to go there when writing/editing missions. No spam and no lag FTW!
[/ QUOTE ]
St. Martial and Port Oakes are similar. No spam, no lag, and a market and a crafting place in the zone. That's why I don't want to be banished to a high-level spam ghetto.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Locking higher level characters out of the AE missions in lower level zones so that they can't lure lower level characters into content based on their jaded point-of-view.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I am all in favor of kicking 50s out of Cap and Atlas, all this would do would turn the high-level zones into MA farm central. Lowbies looking for Portal Corp farms made it to PI, they could make it there for MA farms as well. Then high-level characters who wish to play and create legitimate AE content would be stuck sharing the buildings in high-level zones with swarms of farmers, instead of having the option to go to a low-traffic zone.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I guess you understand what a pain all that spam is.
Who could deal with the spam situation better?
A new player?
Or - a player that has a level 50?
Grandville and Peregrine Island were "farm central" before the MA/AE was introduced. I'm just trying to force it back there.
If you want to do something to help the MA/AE then do something about stopping the abuse.
I see you aren't posting an idea to help solve it.
Please. I want to hear what your idea is to keep this behavior out of the lower level zones so that people can play zone appropriate content with out all the higher level team spams.
I'm sure you have a better idea.
I would like to see it.
1. Defeat animations for bosses: allow them to be able to - teleport out, explode, bow out (concede defeat without being killed/medi-transported)
2. Glowies can now fade in, and they can also be a chained objective. Although when you chain them, they are always there, but just don't glow until their activation condition is met. I'd like to have the option to make it not appear at all until the activation condition is met. (although, I haven't tried chaining along with the fade-in option)
3. Clues added to defend object objective, and patrols. You could get information out of a patrol.
4. Sectioning outdoor maps for front, middle, and back locations.
[ QUOTE ]
Stuff I would love MA to have:
1. Dialog NPCs - NPCs that say something or drop clues when clicked.
2. Branching Missions - On mission failure, proceed to mission 2, else proceed to mission 3.
3. Deactivation of objectives by completion of other objectives - For example, hacking into base's computer network removes all robot patrols. Finding Uberboss' weakness despawns Uberboss and spawns weakened Uberboss.
4. Multiple Contacts in an Arc - I'd like it to be possible to have a different contact each mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
#1: you can create an ally surrounded by friendlies that has dialog when you come near. Check mission #2 of @Lazarus's "MacGuffin Delivery Service" arc.
[ QUOTE ]
From an evil farmer here. We would use spawn point placement to jam pack a map full of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not if it was done intelligently by the Devs - i.e. a grid system of selectable spawn points for each map, combined with a max number of mobs per room/hallway/map.
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Locking higher level characters out of the AE missions in lower level zones so that they can't lure lower level characters into content based on their jaded point-of-view.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I am all in favor of kicking 50s out of Cap and Atlas, all this would do would turn the high-level zones into MA farm central. Lowbies looking for Portal Corp farms made it to PI, they could make it there for MA farms as well. Then high-level characters who wish to play and create legitimate AE content would be stuck sharing the buildings in high-level zones with swarms of farmers, instead of having the option to go to a low-traffic zone.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I guess you understand what a pain all that spam is.
Who could deal with the spam situation better?
A new player?
Or - a player that has a level 50?
Grandville and Peregrine Island were "farm central" before the MA/AE was introduced. I'm just trying to force it back there.
If you want to do something to help the MA/AE then do something about stopping the abuse.
I see you aren't posting an idea to help solve it.
Please. I want to hear what your idea is to keep this behavior out of the lower level zones so that people can play zone appropriate content with out all the higher level team spams.
I'm sure you have a better idea.
I would like to see it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't give a rat's hiney about all the spam. I can remove Broadcast from my tab, all my characters on Freedom do so as soon as I hit 40. I care about the lag. I went into the AE building in Cap on Freedom once. Never again.
The truth is, you spend a lot more time at level 40-50 than at 1-5. And even at 1-5, heroes can choose Galaxy. There is absolutely no reason to start your lowbie in Atlas unless you're a Peacebringer, it boggles my mind that everyone does it and then complains. Villains who want to avoid the Cap AE can just stay in Port Oakes.
The only people who really suffer here are villains who want to run regular content through the teens, and heroes running fed-exes back to Atlas. Again, a small fraction of your total 1-50 time, compared to the 40-50 range.
Lower-level players can avoid being "lured" to the insta-50 playstyle. Low-level doesn't equal stupid.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Hi,
I am struggling to find the best discussions on the ways we might extend or improve MA so that it works as a storytelling and RP mechanism. I know there has been a lot of discussion about farming, but it seems to me that AE is one of the best implemented features in CoH, but missing a few key features to make it actually work for the more story and socially inclined players.
Any suggestions for threads that I should check out?
Cheers,
Sib