Vehicle Travel Pool Set or Invention perhaps
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-04 20:44 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Perhaps no one can find the old threads the devs made on vehicles because the devs purged them because they have changed their minds.
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Well there's a very easy way for you to check and see if the devs changed their minds. Log on and check what vehicles you have to choose from as a travel power.
What? . . . There aren't any? I guess they didn't change their minds then.
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wow are you that stupid? They could have changed their minds and haven't implemented yet. It doesn't go from a no to a here it is. Goes from a no to a maybe to a yes. Then when it is a yes it takes time for them to add it to a game. You were trying to make yourself sound cool with a your mom type of joke and you made yourself sound like an idiot.
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No I was using your own methods of discussion against you, and now you see how the posts by Dementor and you look to us.
Just because forum maintenence deletes old threads, it doesn't mean the devs have changed their minds on any given topic, nor does it mean they need to restate their opinion. They have better things to do then rehash old arguments.
Deal with it.
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Wasn't that comment made before the invention system came into play. I'll concede that a power pool it doesn't make sense and I'll stop pulling that dead horse. But my thread is titled Vehicle Travel Pool Set or Invention perhaps. So lets go back to addressing the possibility of it being Invention. That makes more sense than the power pool anyway. All the Heroes in the comics/tv shows/cartoons/movies that have vehicles had it built or built it themselves.
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Okaaay. I repeat:
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No one has given a definite reason why it wouldn't work
[/ QUOTE ] The problems were pointed out in posts 3, 7, 8, and 10. None of them have been addressed beyond, "with enough money and time and a completely new engine it could work!"
What would count as "definite" in your opinion?
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"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
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What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?
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He's just grasping at straws.
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Wasn't that comment made before the invention system came into play. I'll concede that a power pool it doesn't make sense and I'll stop pulling that dead horse. But my thread is titled Vehicle Travel Pool Set or Invention perhaps. So lets go back to addressing the possibility of it being Invention. That makes more sense than the power pool anyway. All the Heroes in the comics/tv shows/cartoons/movies that have vehicles had it built or built it themselves.
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Okaaay. I repeat:
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No one has given a definite reason why it wouldn't work
[/ QUOTE ] The problems were pointed out in posts 3, 7, 8, and 10. None of them have been addressed beyond, "with enough money and time and a completely new engine it could work!"
What would count as "definite" in your opinion?
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This is a clear case of selective blindness Oldeb. He and his friend only "see" what they want to see and dismiss everything else.
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OK, Bucky - Your point seems to be that if the Devs made vehicles as a separate paid-for add on, they might do it? That there is some price for this add on that would make it worth their while to spend development time (at the expense of lots of others things BTW)?
What price tag would you put on it? Current booster packs cost us $10. I'm fairly sure that there would need to be a hella lot of boosters sold to pay for the development time at that rate, so that's probably not the pricing point.
OK, then what if the pricing is $20? $30? $50? Now we are getting up to the price range that you would be just as well off going to another game to have your cars and motorcycles, but based on what we, the players, know about how the engine works, I'm not even sure how many $50 booster packs it would take to cover the development costs.
What people have been saying is "Sure it can be done, if everything is rebuilt" but I don't want dev time spent on that massive an undertaking that will likely not even break even at the expense of new content, new zones, etc.
It's OK to dream, but NCSoft is a business, and will make its development time decisions based on what can be budgetted for in terms of how many units can be sold vs. development costs.
Rebuilding parts of the game engine for fluff doesn't seem like the business decision any rational business would make without lots of assurance it would pay off - which based on the general tone of these threads over the past 5 years, seems unlikely to happen.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
It still doesn't work.
You have to have the vehicle model. Character animation while driving. Character and Vehicle model animation when turning, jumping, reversing. Character attack animations while in the vehicle. Character defensive animations while in the vehicle. Character hit animations while in the vehicle. Character death animation(s) while in the vehicle.
Then multiply that work by 3. One 'Male' version one 'Female' version, then ensuring the male version works for Huge characters.
THEN You can start in on scaling to character size so 8 foot tall monsters and 3 foot tall 'Little people' can all drive as well.
It's not gonna happen.
-Rachel-
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What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?
Nothing. Nothing at all. We don't have any need for these things *except for cosmetic purposes*, and perhaps maybe a base item would be cool, instead of a portal you step out from your car door or hop off your cycle. Aside from a prop? It's neither necessary or implementable.
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If you can build rocket boots and other things from salvage why not a vehicle?
And in case you forgot this is a computer game. Everything is cosmetic. Nothing is needed.
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What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?
Nothing. Nothing at all. We don't have any need for these things *except for cosmetic purposes*, and perhaps maybe a base item would be cool, instead of a portal you step out from your car door or hop off your cycle. Aside from a prop? It's neither necessary or implementable.
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If you can build rocket boots and other things from salvage why not a vehicle?
And in case you forgot this is a computer game. Everything is cosmetic. Nothing is needed.
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*snicker*
He doesn't know the difference between an costume piece and a travel power.
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It still doesn't work.
You have to have the vehicle model. Character animation while driving. Character and Vehicle model animation when turning, jumping, reversing. Character attack animations while in the vehicle. Character defensive animations while in the vehicle. Character hit animations while in the vehicle. Character death animation(s) while in the vehicle.
Then multiply that work by 3. One 'Male' version one 'Female' version, then ensuring the male version works for Huge characters.
THEN You can start in on scaling to character size so 8 foot tall monsters and 3 foot tall 'Little people' can all drive as well.
It's not gonna happen.
-Rachel-
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This is the closest thing to a definite reason why not. This would probably be the most difficult problem if they ever tried to conquer the problem of trying to add vehicles. Thank you Rachel.
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It still doesn't work.
You have to have the vehicle model. Character animation while driving. Character and Vehicle model animation when turning, jumping, reversing. Character attack animations while in the vehicle. Character defensive animations while in the vehicle. Character hit animations while in the vehicle. Character death animation(s) while in the vehicle.
Then multiply that work by 3. One 'Male' version one 'Female' version, then ensuring the male version works for Huge characters.
THEN You can start in on scaling to character size so 8 foot tall monsters and 3 foot tall 'Little people' can all drive as well.
It's not gonna happen.
-Rachel-
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This is the closest thing to a definite reason why not. This would probably be the most difficult problem if they ever tried to conquer the problem of trying to add vehicles. Thank you Rachel.
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Maybe you should read more
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You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?
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Just in cast you didn't see it there
EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
That is what Rachel said and that was in my post in the 2nd post of this.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
You don't get what I said.
The process of "invention" only deals in complete abstracts within the program. There is NOTHING to represent, NOTHING visible.
The loot that drops *does not appear in the game anywhere except as a tag*. Put those tags together and BANG now you have an "item".
Can you SEE enhancements? Only on your screen. They don't visibly appear *within the game's vision*. They are *abstractions*.
Costume pieces are created in the same manner by recipes, but again: the RECIPE and the loot needed to create it are *not visible* ever. EVER.
Turn your UI off, and what do you see?
If you've 'invented' a costume piece, all that does is tag that character at the tailor for a certain item. NOTHING MORE.
Just because they use the term "invention" does NOT mean that your character is 'building' anything.
Can you "build" an emote?
No?
Why not?
Oh yeh - because the devs are required to actually *make animations* for all 3 body types, and make sure that they're not clipping horribly, and make sure they don't imbalance pvp because of delaying animations or actions...
Can you "invent" a prop? The only way within this game to produce anything is by using the Propel power - and that is CLIENT SIDE visuals only.
That's why when someone has Propel on a team, you will see chat saying "pool table!" "no it's a car!" "I saw a filing cabinet!"
The 'objects' that are 'created' by this power are *not actually visible in the game* until they're 'viewed' by a client's computer. Each item is decided BY their computer, not by the game's server. Chosen from a list of items, that's all the visuals are there.
So... how do you propse to use the "invention" system to "invent" a car?
** Tell the devs to start designing 'car' models
** Make sure the 'car' models don't infringe on any car maker's trademarks
** Make sure that the car models scale to each and every person in the game
** Make sure that the car models can 'move' with the character - at what speed? How do they turn? Can cars strafe? Can they fly? Can they superleap? What about teleport?
If not - well, what happens to the character's powers? Your UI will go grey until you can use any powers again - that's a UI change that is quite dramatic if those powers along with attacks and buffs aren't available, and why would they be, you're in a car!
** Make sure that the car arrival on summoning doesn't clip heavily with evrything around it. Make sure that the car can only be summoned on level ground on a street. Not on steps, not on a fence, oh and not on any given piece of existing random material like cardboard boxes or shrubbery because ANYTHING THAT HINDERS MOVEMENT would stop the car from moving. Since "we" are in the car, the car becomes our "cylinder" - a large one at that.
** Make sure that the car is "fully customizable" - so dedicate a team to making hawt looking chrome bumpers and wheel spinners, do you want to earn an antenna ball with that task force? How about fuzzy dice?
** Will you see your character through the window? Third person? Or will it turn to first person to "watch" as you move down streets and bump into pedestrians and other vehicles? How do you control this? Does it accellerate like a vehicle, or does it move only at your character's existing pace? If none of the character's movement powers can be used, the car's pace is "walking".
** Make sure that cars can't 'stack' in an area
** make a cut-scene for everyone getting 'in your car' when it's time to make a group power. Oh, yeah that'd work, because everyone's computers and internet services are *all at the same bandwidth and speed*. So no one would be left sitting in the car as a slow-loading player's computer catches up. But ... wait, peoples' internet services ARE different, and sometimes you have to wait 3-4 minutes for a very slow loader to show up at a mission door! How does that effect the getting-in and getting-out of a group vehicle?
I think the list could go on for pages and pages.
This is a "bad idea". It's not a good idea. It's a poorly thought out, badly worded idea. It is based on completely faulty understanding of how the game's engine works.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?
Nothing. Nothing at all. We don't have any need for these things *except for cosmetic purposes*, and perhaps maybe a base item would be cool, instead of a portal you step out from your car door or hop off your cycle. Aside from a prop? It's neither necessary or implementable.
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If you can build rocket boots and other things from salvage why not a vehicle?
And in case you forgot this is a computer game. Everything is cosmetic. Nothing is needed.
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*snicker*
He doesn't know the difference between an costume piece and a travel power.
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some people take things too literal and try to twist words to make them seem cool. but it doesn't work.
So let me clarify what I meant for those of you who are challenged. If you can create costume pieces as complex as piston boots, tech wings, and rocket boots. And you also can create temp powers. why wouldn't you be able to create something that is both cosmetic and useful?
Okay:
The idea that, IF vehicles were "in" the game *ALREADY*, THEN your character should in theory be able to "invent" it... to provide a "temporary power" in the power tray. YES.
Yes, that's FINE.
*Vehicles aren't going in the game*.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Yeah right, and everyone that has said they remember it being said are all just liars. Just accept the fact that you missed it, or simply don't remember it. No one has ever read all the threads that have been made over 5 years.
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There are all kinds of things people swear rednames have said. Brutes will never have weapons because of a fury bug, remember? EVERYONE had seen a redname post that one. Guess what? Never happened, and today brutes have weapons.
For that matter, several things that were actually on the "will never happen due to technical limitations" list are now in game. Custom Weapons for one. We've had strong hints at full power customization in on the way. These are, I'll note, entirely cosmetic changes.
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So let me clarify what I meant for those of you who are challenged.
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Typical immature response. You can't refute the flaws in your suggestion that have been presented to you so you resort to name calling and denial.
and you and bucky still don't get it that vehicles WILL NEVER make it into the game. give up. if you both new how to use the search function(which doesn't bite i promise) you would have seen everything you needed to know on why this just WON'T happen. besides the fact that the current game engine wouldn't be able to handle it, it is not something the dev's want to spend the time and resources on. it would not be feasable to them.
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No I was using your own methods of discussion against you, and now you see how the posts by Dementor and you look to us.
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The two of you can carry on with each other in whatever manner you like, but I'd prefer you not include me in whatever riff the two of you are having. I think I've stayed entirely on-topic, so personal attacks are uncalled for.
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Yeah right, and everyone that has said they remember it being said are all just liars. Just accept the fact that you missed it, or simply don't remember it. No one has ever read all the threads that have been made over 5 years.
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There are all kinds of things people swear rednames have said. Brutes will never have weapons because of a fury bug, remember? EVERYONE had seen a redname post that one. Guess what? Never happened, and today brutes have weapons.
For that matter, several things that were actually on the "will never happen due to technical limitations" list are now in game. Custom Weapons for one. We've had strong hints at full power customization in on the way. These are, I'll note, entirely cosmetic changes.
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Gonna call BS on your claims there. the devs did not say brutes would never get weapons. People asked why brutes didn't have weapons and the devs said because of fury generating problems. They never said brutes would "never" get weapons. The players eventually talked them into giveng brutes weapons anyway. It was a matter of they thought people wouldn't like it so they skipped it.
the devs have said that vehicles are just to much work to put into the game. There is also the issue of making them in a way that makes everyone happy.
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No I was using your own methods of discussion against you, and now you see how the posts by Dementor and you look to us.
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The two of you can carry on with each other in whatever manner you like, but I'd prefer you not include me in whatever riff the two of you are having. I think I've stayed entirely on-topic, so personal attacks are uncalled for.
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You can't take the moral high ground on personal attacks when you were the one that called everyone that told you the devs have said that vehicles are just to much work to put into the game, a liar when you said:
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I've never seen the devs refute the possibility of vehicles to the degree you're suggesting.
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Yeah right, and everyone that has said they remember it being said are all just liars. Just accept the fact that you missed it, or simply don't remember it. No one has ever read all the threads that have been made over 5 years.
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There are all kinds of things people swear rednames have said. Brutes will never have weapons because of a fury bug, remember? EVERYONE had seen a redname post that one. Guess what? Never happened, and today brutes have weapons.
For that matter, several things that were actually on the "will never happen due to technical limitations" list are now in game. Custom Weapons for one. We've had strong hints at full power customization in on the way. These are, I'll note, entirely cosmetic changes.
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Gonna call BS on your claims there. the devs did not say brutes would never get weapons. People asked why brutes didn't have weapons and the devs said because of fury generating problems. They never said brutes would "never" get weapons. The players eventually talked them into giveng brutes weapons anyway. It was a matter of they thought people wouldn't like it so they skipped it.
the devs have said that vehicles are just to much work to put into the game. There is also the issue of making them in a way that makes everyone happy.
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You misinterpret. There was a widely believed "fact" that a redname had said at some point that the reason brutes didn't have weapons is because there was a bug with generating fury. no such redname post had ever existed. I was using that to illustrate my point: that just because alot of people think they remember seeing a redname post something, does not mean that such a post actually existed.
The fact that you STILL believe that post occurred, just in a different version (why would weapons hurt fury generation?), simply illustrates my point further.
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You can't take the moral high ground on personal attacks when you were the one that called everyone that told you the devs have said that vehicles are just to much work to put into the game, a liar when you said:
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I've never seen the devs refute the possibility of vehicles to the degree you're suggesting.
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You interpret it that way, but that's not what it says. I don't think any of you are lying: I think you all really believe a redname said that, and it is entirely possible that they did, or that they said something simmilar at least. However, I'm currently treating it as hearsay, since nobody can produce a source.
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My friends who think WOW is the best game are bragging to me how they have motorcycles. How does it make sense that WOW has Motorcycles and COH doesn't?
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/em boggle
WoW has motorcycles?!? That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard about that game... and I have heard some pretty stupid things.
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You can't take the moral high ground on personal attacks when you were the one that called everyone that told you the devs have said that vehicles are just to much work to put into the game, a liar when you said:
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I've never seen the devs refute the possibility of vehicles to the degree you're suggesting.
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You interpret it that way, but that's not what it says. I don't think any of you are lying: I think you all really believe a redname said that, and it is entirely possible that they did, or that they said something simmilar at least. However, I'm currently treating it as hearsay, since nobody can produce a source.
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Ok, with that explanation, I'm willing to apologize for including you in that previous statement. At the time it was the impression I was getting.
The system purges of old threads makes it very frustrating when a request for a link is made. I agree with the other poster that I wish the devs posts were all automatically stickied so we could reference them as needed. So many explanations have been lost.
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My friends who think WOW is the best game are bragging to me how they have motorcycles. How does it make sense that WOW has Motorcycles and COH doesn't?
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/em boggle
WoW has motorcycles?!? That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard about that game... and I have heard some pretty stupid things.
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It is the most strangest thing I've seen to date in that game. From what I saw it's even build like something out of Final Fantasy 7, just with Warcraft's Steampunk look (IE: It's huge, long, massive exhaust, and the like).
It feels really out of place, although that's my opinion, and what's stranger is that the motorcycle can swim.
I can only guess the Alliance and Horde played some medieval version of Spy Hunter.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?
Nothing. Nothing at all. We don't have any need for these things *except for cosmetic purposes*, and perhaps maybe a base item would be cool, instead of a portal you step out from your car door or hop off your cycle. Aside from a prop? It's neither necessary or implementable.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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