KrazyManBucky

not a marketer. An Actor. which probably makes more sense to how you might perceive me.

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I have to agree that most vehicles would be rediculous to see in this game. Motorcycles would be cool to see at least if WoW has them.

I think some other options would be more logical and feasable. Flying platform emotes, think of the Green Goblin, something you stand on opposed to get into would be much easier to animate. These would be able to strafe sideways, move over any terrain etc. Flying platforms could include high tech rocket platforms like Gobie's, you could also include a hovering UFO type platform, a mystical flying carpet, an elemental cloud, etc. It would also be very cool to see an emote for sitting on a broomstick for halloween.

Even though this would be much easier to do, and still very cool, I still do not see them being introduced to the game anytime soon unfortunately.

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That would be pretty awesome. Would love to have a magic toon have a broom. But sometimes no matter how much we want something we may never get it. Doesn't stop us from wanting it. The dev's are doing a great job and I love this game. Best game ever in my opinion. And though wow has motorcycles I wouldn't trade anything to get motorcycles or any vehicle if all the wow drama came with it (I married a wow widow, didn't know such a thing existed before).

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So... have you actually spoken TO the devs, as in in person?

Because I have, and asked them many, many questions.

The point being: you don't know what is possible. The rest of us *do*. You're just unable or unwilling to accept that.

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Do you talk like this all the time? if so I'm glad you don't play on Liberty.

On an off note Zekiran_Immortal. I hate your graphic. I'd rather have no graphic than yours. It annoys me every time I see it. something is off about it. not very pleasing to the eye. Sorry if you like it, which you must since it's your graphic. I just couldn't keep not voicing my opinion about it because it bothers me so. but that must be how you view my idea of vehicles so I guess we're even. Not trying to be immature or mean, I just personally don't like it. If you change it later people won't know what I'm referring to. It's just somehow disconcerting. But maybe that's what your going for. Everyone will notice your posts, that's for sure. After watching Family Guy ranting is so much more fun. "You know what really grinds my gears"

scroll back and you'll see the person I replied to didn't have a number 4.

I never stated what the perceived limitations might be. I just stated there might be some. It's done all the time. Always leave you wanting more than do something that was perceived as impossible. It's classic showmanship. You might need to take off your blinders and look outside your box and see what I'm actually saying. I don't know what is possible and what is not. I'm just putting in my two cents.

perhaps instead of 5. making sense there should be a 6.

6. Technical Issues -- I don't know how or what all they would have to do when it comes to coding. When it becomes too much or when it's easy. I'm just posting my suggestions and ideas with as much information on how I think it could be done as possible. If I knew how to create a game and how to change it I would probably try to get a job on the developing team. But I don't have those skills and I don't know how labor intensive it is. I'm creative, not technical. when it comes down to it the biggest argument against my idea is my lack of technical information. I'm sure it's not easy, and I'm sure the dev's are smart enough to not let us know what all they are capable of. It's better to have perceived limitations that don't meet your actual limitations.

not everything was to solve problems. a lot of it was just ideas of my own and ideas of others combined together. If an idea was only problem solving to a possible idea you would have no idea. suggestions and ideas mixed with solutions to make it work.

I realized the level 50 vehicle idea probably wouldn't work this morning, wrote that last night. was trying to make the vehicle tough so it wouldn't explode much. But to make sense it would probably have to be whatever level the toon is.

maybe not a big hami vehicle as maybe an army/gang of vehicles that synergize together. or maybe something like Voltron (which was totally stolen by Power Rangers) or transformers, but more city of heroes/villains theme

I don't think someone driving a vehicle should be able to use their powers as they drive. If you think people talking on their cell phones is bad. How well would you drive if you were trying to snipe someone. powers in vehicle doesn't make sense.

as far as vehicles sinking in water I was trying to address the concern of people not wanting the vehicle to just disappear like riding animals in wow.

as far as the payed expansion, you would want to pay for it so you don't have to keep getting the necessary items and influence to create the temp powers by having a permanent power. Also you could only customize a permanent power vehicle. So no paid exp = no customizing.

1. movement -- if you want a vehicle get used to the idea that you can't do everything in it that you could do if you weren't in a vehicle. Not being able to strife doesn't bother me at all. wheels will always be more restrictive then feet. You want a car that runs on feet? that would be weird... maybe if you were a mad scientist, then you could strife with you feet mobile.

2. Terrain -- I'm sure I addressed this. cars don't float, cars don't jump, and cars don't fly. if you get your car stuck call a tow truck (LOL). You will not be able to get your vehicle to go everywhere. It's more for RPing than perfect for every situation power. No power is perfect for every situation. So don't complain you can't always use it for every situation.

3. combat. I've addressed this a few times. So I shall clarify. You can't use your combat powers in a vehicle. So going with what my plan would be. You would have to get out of the car or pay for the expansion that allows you to customize your vehicle so your vehicle can have weapons of it's own.

5. making sense. my whole plan is about vehicles working and making sense.

So this thread and reading other threads has brought me to a conclusion. If vehicles are ever to become a part of the game it would probably have to be introduced in 3 parts over 3 years.

Part 1 -

- More vehicles as npcs. like the sky raider sky skiffs but more variety. Such as tanks, Jets, Helicopters, unicycles, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, trucks, vans, hummers, jeeps, boats, subs, etc. Something more than just the blow up items in missions. Something that can attack back and/or drive away.

- More missions that involve vehicles. Perhaps stop a drive by shooting by blowing up the car as it drives by. Or a war scenario (which might be what we're getting with the next expansion, I can't wait to find out more about going rogue, it has to be awesome). Maybe another Hami that is a vehicle instead of a giant cell.

Part 2 -

- An expansion dealing with adding vehicles to the invention system. Vehicles would be temp powers that you can create (probably about 10 uses). Vehicles can only be used in appropriate places, no indoor missions, only outdoor missions, on ground that is traversible by SS without jumping, vehicles sink in water and toons come up to surface of water. No strife left or right. No Jumping. Forward, Backward, Turn left or right.

- unicycles (read an interesting thread about unicycles), bicycles, motorcycles, cars, trucks, vans, hummers, jeeps, no limos or semis (would cause too many traffic jams), etc. Only land locked vehicles, flying vehicles would have to be a whole other expansion. Not worth trying to push too much all at once. Too avoid any copyright infringement the vehicles could have a futuristic or arcane look to them.

- Some vehicles would be single player vehicles. Some vehicles, the larger ones of course, would have room for teammates, can you say awesomeness when you have a low level sk teaming with you, they can travel with you and not worry about being killed by a random mob as they go to the mission.

- All Vehicles would be level 50. Since the vehicle has a level it can be destroyed, but being 50 not the easiest to destroy, depending on vehicle would determine hit points/damage resistance/defense. If the vehicle got destroyed an appropriate amount of blow up damage would be dealt to all passengers and driver, also any nearby NPC.

- Vehicle missions. Hero side stopping some car jacking, villian side doing the car jacking (ok, maybe I was a little inspired by grand theft auto on that idea, it's a fun and addictive game, til you beat it or use all the cheats)

Part 3 -

- A Paid Expansion introducing An Auto Shop Building (could be part of the university or all by itself). You would have to have a drivers license to use the auto shop, the drivers license would come with the paid expansion pack.

- At the auto shop you can take one of your vehicle temp powers and turn it into a permanent power. Each toon would only have one permanent vehicle power. Also, receive vehicle related missions.

- Once that vehicle is selected you can customize it. Custom paint job. Guns. Missiles. Rocket Launchers. Flame throwers. Ice Cannon. Oil slick. Nitros. Chrome. Spinning wheels. Hydraulics. Ground effects. Rockets (back of vehicle that spews flames). Tinted Windows (which might be used as a cheat so you don't have to animate people inside). Spoilers. License plate. Bumper sticker. Chain of pop cans (for the newly weds). Side car for motorcycle (ok so that might be copying wow on that one). Turning bike into a bicycle built for 2. Adding a burley to a bike (like what people put their kids in. etc.


++ if flying vehicles ever added be similar application only airport or air field instead of auto shop.

++ if boats ever added be similar application only marina instead of auto shop (boats would be great way to add more content to COV)

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Perhaps no one can find the old threads the devs made on vehicles because the devs purged them because they have changed their minds.

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Well there's a very easy way for you to check and see if the devs changed their minds. Log on and check what vehicles you have to choose from as a travel power.

What? . . . There aren't any? I guess they didn't change their minds then.

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wow are you that stupid? They could have changed their minds and haven't implemented yet. It doesn't go from a no to a here it is. Goes from a no to a maybe to a yes. Then when it is a yes it takes time for them to add it to a game. You were trying to make yourself sound cool with a your mom type of joke and you made yourself sound like an idiot.

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No I was using your own methods of discussion against you, and now you see how the posts by Dementor and you look to us.

Just because forum maintenence deletes old threads, it doesn't mean the devs have changed their minds on any given topic, nor does it mean they need to restate their opinion. They have better things to do then rehash old arguments.

Deal with it.

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forgive my rashness I have 6 brothers and when someone insults/makes fun/teases/dismisses your ideas/is disrespectful and the like I have learned to just throw it back at them.

When someone uses constructive criticism I usually don't act so rash. Not many people here seem to know how to use constructive criticism. For a brush up on it what it means is before you say something negative you say something positive. Or another way is when you say something negative you give it a positive spin.

Such as instead of saying "learn to search" try "You're not the only that wishes they would add vehicles" (because searches don't always bring up exactly what you want. also not every thread about vehicles is exactly the same. Different people do have different ideas on how it should be implemented, hence why the devs probably don't want to touch it, cause no matter how they did it if they did, people would probably complain that its not how they wanted it. Which sucks.)

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It still doesn't work.

You have to have the vehicle model. Character animation while driving. Character and Vehicle model animation when turning, jumping, reversing. Character attack animations while in the vehicle. Character defensive animations while in the vehicle. Character hit animations while in the vehicle. Character death animation(s) while in the vehicle.

Then multiply that work by 3. One 'Male' version one 'Female' version, then ensuring the male version works for Huge characters.

THEN You can start in on scaling to character size so 8 foot tall monsters and 3 foot tall 'Little people' can all drive as well.

It's not gonna happen.
-Rachel-

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This is the closest thing to a definite reason why not. This would probably be the most difficult problem if they ever tried to conquer the problem of trying to add vehicles. Thank you Rachel.

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Maybe you should read more

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You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?

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Just in cast you didn't see it there

EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

That is what Rachel said and that was in my post in the 2nd post of this.

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"You have to have the vehicle model. Character animation while driving. Character and Vehicle model animation when turning, jumping, reversing... Then multiply that work by 3. One 'Male' version one 'Female' version, then ensuring the male version works for Huge characters. THEN You can start in on scaling to character size so 8 foot tall monsters and 3 foot tall 'Little people' can all drive as well."

This part is what I meant by my statement she was the closest. The rest of what she said and what you said I don't think are definite reasons.

Because in my opinion if vehicles ever were introduced you shouldn't be able to attack from it. if you ever could attack from the vehicle it would only be if the vehicle itself had a weapon and if the vehicle had a weapon it would somehow have to have hit points. And an exploding vehicle might kill it's occupants.

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My friends who think WOW is the best game are bragging to me how they have motorcycles. How does it make sense that WOW has Motorcycles and COH doesn't?

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/em boggle

WoW has motorcycles?!? That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard about that game... and I have heard some pretty stupid things.

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yeah I thought it pretty stupid as well. But my friend showed it to me. He has a motorcycle and if he wants he can attach a sidecar that a friend can ride in.

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What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?

Nothing. Nothing at all. We don't have any need for these things *except for cosmetic purposes*, and perhaps maybe a base item would be cool, instead of a portal you step out from your car door or hop off your cycle. Aside from a prop? It's neither necessary or implementable.

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If you can build rocket boots and other things from salvage why not a vehicle?

And in case you forgot this is a computer game. Everything is cosmetic. Nothing is needed.

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*snicker*

He doesn't know the difference between an costume piece and a travel power.

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some people take things too literal and try to twist words to make them seem cool. but it doesn't work.

So let me clarify what I meant for those of you who are challenged. If you can create costume pieces as complex as piston boots, tech wings, and rocket boots. And you also can create temp powers. why wouldn't you be able to create something that is both cosmetic and useful?

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It still doesn't work.

You have to have the vehicle model. Character animation while driving. Character and Vehicle model animation when turning, jumping, reversing. Character attack animations while in the vehicle. Character defensive animations while in the vehicle. Character hit animations while in the vehicle. Character death animation(s) while in the vehicle.

Then multiply that work by 3. One 'Male' version one 'Female' version, then ensuring the male version works for Huge characters.

THEN You can start in on scaling to character size so 8 foot tall monsters and 3 foot tall 'Little people' can all drive as well.

It's not gonna happen.
-Rachel-

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This is the closest thing to a definite reason why not. This would probably be the most difficult problem if they ever tried to conquer the problem of trying to add vehicles. Thank you Rachel.

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What does the Invention system - which deals ONLY with 'loot' we don't see, combined on theoretical platforms, to produce existing enhancements or tags for costume options - have to do with this?

Nothing. Nothing at all. We don't have any need for these things *except for cosmetic purposes*, and perhaps maybe a base item would be cool, instead of a portal you step out from your car door or hop off your cycle. Aside from a prop? It's neither necessary or implementable.

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If you can build rocket boots and other things from salvage why not a vehicle?

And in case you forgot this is a computer game. Everything is cosmetic. Nothing is needed.

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No one has given a definite reason why it wouldn't work

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The problems were pointed out in posts 3, 7, 8, and 10. None of them have been addressed beyond, "with enough money and time and a completely new engine it could work!"

There's also Positron's comment about not putting them in the game.

What would count as "definite" in your opinion?

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Wasn't that comment made before the invention system came into play. I'll concede that a power pool it doesn't make sense and I'll stop pulling that dead horse. But my thread is titled Vehicle Travel Pool Set or Invention perhaps. So lets go back to addressing the possibility of it being Invention. That makes more sense than the power pool anyway. All the Heroes in the comics/tv shows/cartoons/movies that have vehicles had it built or built it themselves.

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Perhaps no one can find the old threads the devs made on vehicles because the devs purged them because they have changed their minds.

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Well there's a very easy way for you to check and see if the devs changed their minds. Log on and check what vehicles you have to choose from as a travel power.

What? . . . There aren't any? I guess they didn't change their minds then.

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wow are you that stupid? They could have changed their minds and haven't implemented yet. It doesn't go from a no to a here it is. Goes from a no to a maybe to a yes. Then when it is a yes it takes time for them to add it to a game. You were trying to make yourself sound cool with a your mom type of joke and you made yourself sound like an idiot.

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are you on the dev team? if not remember that this thread is in the suggestions and ideas section. So if you are not going to add to the idea/suggestion then buzz off. Because this thread is not in the "I'm Happy with the Game how it is and want no further progress section" How do ideas and suggestions progress to being in the game? By us voicing our opinions of what we'd like. And by the dev team pushing themselves to make this game ever increasingly better. Let the dev team decide for themselves what is worth it and what isn't.

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I realize that what forum this is. The problem that I've got with your idea is that it brushes off every problem and says that it's incredibly easy to fix. Making it a paid expansion or bonus pack isn't going to pay for creating an entirely new system unless the price is ridiculously high and they can convince enough people that vehicles are important enough, which isn't a guarantee. Have you actually done any programming on a large scale? It's a helluva lot more complicated than you're implying, especially when you're dealing with modifying an existing engine to account for completely different movement physics while not damaging the existing movement physics and using up too many more processing resources.

As to you thinking I should find an "I'm Happy with the Game how it is and want no further progress section", you obviously don't know me. I'm a rather vocal proponent for game changes. I've got loads of ideas for how to improve the game. The difference is that I've actually thought mine out and tried to think of ways to deal with the problems involved in my ideas rather than simply saying "they should charge for it and that will let them spend all of the time and resources they need to".

As to the role of criticism and debate within the context of the Suggestions and Ideas forums, remember that criticism is allowed and even encouraged because it forces an idea to change to actually account for reality. You're not accounting for reality. Asking for stuff that is only going to happen with a lot of developer effort and expenditure of resources (re: Power Customization) happens all the time, but it's shot down every time it crops up just like your idea because it's already been talked about to death. Everything you bring up has already been brought up. You haven't contributed anything to the discussion that hasn't be brought up by someone else with a lot more forum cred and that did so in a much more eloquent and intelligent manner.

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I have never brushed off anything or said anything was easy. I have never said I know exactly what it takes to add to the game. I have thought about this before and for awhile. I am on the forums so that maybe this idea can become more than I myself can come up with. In school and in the workplace it is always a team that does a better job when thinking up ideas and making them reality. Criticism is encouraged and expected. What's not encouraged is people coming in here just to say it isn't possible or worth even talking about it, and they don't even have any substantial reason why it wouldn't be.

If it was part of an expansion the expansion could cost as much as any expansion would cost. City of Villians was a huge expansion. With a lot to add to the game. It probably wasn't easy. It probably involved a lot of new programing. Yet they did it and we loved them for it. Now all the noobs think that heroes and villians came out at the same time for all they're concerned. The Dev's have and continue to add content to the game. All I'm saying is it's natural to eventually have cars. I personally want it to happen sooner than later which is why I started this thread. how would you like it if I went to every thread you have in suggestions and ideas and voiced my opinion about them? Hopefully you would like it, because I would read the thread and think about the idea and say yay or nay if I agreed with it or not, and would try to add to that idea if I liked it.

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and absolutely none of these will work in the game. plain and simple. get off your imaginary unicorns and take time to read why this will not work rather then brush it off like noone gave any reason why it won't work.

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No one has given a definite reason why it wouldn't work

Perhaps no one can find the old threads the devs made on vehicles because the devs purged them because they have changed their minds.

When it comes to RPing if you have never created a back story for your toon. If you have never created a costume or at least tried to create a costume for yourself of one of your toons. If you haven't joined a Group be it hero or villian. If you never read the story arcs you complete. If you have never collected badges for fun. If your only idea of fun is power leveling. Then you are not an RPer and have no say on what is worth it or what isn't worth it when it comes to adding RP material to the game.

City of Heroes is a Role Playing Game. The purpose of city of heroes is not to just get to level 50 and sit and do nothing. Therefore adding something that would add to the role playing aspect would be adding to the game.

Role Playing in mind -- if it doesn't make sense then it doesn't work. I can't snipe someone I can't see. I can't super jump very well when there is a low ceiling. So if I had a vehicle I shouldn't be able to bring it in a building. I'm ok with that and so should others. So stop saying it would be a problem because people wouldn't be able to use them in buildings. It's not a problem to RPers who wouldn't want to use vehicles in inappropriate circumstances. IE cars don't go in water is ok, boats don't go on land is ok, vehicles don't go into buildings is ok.

Dev's say things all the time one way or another about the game. Sometimes they disagree with each other or change their minds about things. What a dev may or may not have said is not written in stone. They can always change their minds or adjust their thinking. So if you are not a dev don't say that what A dev may have said years ago is still applicable today.

We don't need vehicles. we also don't need as many power sets and costumes as we have now. We didn't need inventions. We didn't need SG Bases. We don't need a lot of things the devs have given us. But it doesn't mean we don't want them or appreciate them.

Nothing is free in this world and you always get what you pay for. I would be willing to pay for an expansion with vehicles. Do I expect it this year? No. Do I think it is something that should one day be added? Yes.

I am not a dev and don't know how they would put something like this into affect. The mechanics of getting it to work would be up to them. I have been happy with what they have done over the years and am confidant they could add vehicles if they tried.

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Bucky, do you care to actually address any of the problems you simply brush off? I don't think you quite grasp how big of a problem these issues that you so callously ignore or brush off are. The dev team doesn't have infinite resources. They've got to focus on specific things. They're not going to devote the resources required to create an entirely new, elaborate system like the one you want because it's just not worth it. Vehicles wouldn't do anything that the current travel powers don't already do and would require a large amount of work for what amounts to only a cosmetic change.

The game can't even do half of what you're suggesting it can (2 and 3). The "can't run on water" problem would cause vehicles to simply disappear as soon as you step in water and that still does nothing to counter the arguments that most of the doors in the game can't even be reached by roads and other ground vehicles friendly paths. Vertical movement is just too important. As to you combat suggestion, the game can't do that either. How are they going to give it hit points if it's a power? You want them to create a completely different mechanic for powers with hit points? That's a horrible use of resources when the game is just fine without them.

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are you on the dev team? if not remember that this thread is in the suggestions and ideas section. So if you are not going to add to the idea/suggestion then buzz off. Because this thread is not in the "I'm Happy with the Game how it is and want no further progress section" How do ideas and suggestions progress to being in the game? By us voicing our opinions of what we'd like. And by the dev team pushing themselves to make this game ever increasingly better. Let the dev team decide for themselves what is worth it and what isn't.

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Vechicle Pls search first.

To quote Memphis_Bill

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There are a lot of problems with the idea.

1. Movement.
Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle.

2. Terrain.
Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump.

3. Combat.
You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?

4. Customizing.
Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else.

5. Making "sense."
This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid.

That's just a quick overview of some of the issues with having vehicles as a travel power.


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I searched first and found everything but a string that said what I wanted mine to say or that I could add to.

1. Movement -- I don't expect to be able to do in a vehicle what I can do with my super powers.

2. Terrain -- not everything is perfect in every situation. Super Jump sucks in Buildings and caves. So I can't use my car in the water or going up a steep cliff, I wouldn't expect it to or even want it to.

3. Combat -- Get out of the car and fight or drive away. Give the car hit points and make it level 50. maybe the creators can create an auto shop where destroyed and damaged vehicles can be repaired. When you summon the vehicle have it take 5 seconds to summon it. When you get out it drives away until called again.

4. Customizing -- Yeah of course. have so many different types like 5-10. Then like your costume you can choose color and design. Once again Auto Shop

5. Making "sense." -- If COH is to continue to be the number one game (which in my opinion it is) eventually they need some type of vehicle option. My friends who think WOW is the best game are bragging to me how they have motorcycles. How does it make sense that WOW has Motorcycles and COH doesn't? as far as being on land use a land vehicle, as far as being on the water use a water vehicle, as far as being in the air use an air vehicle, doesn't that make sense?

Wolverine rides a motorcycle, X-men have a jet, Batman has a boat, a car, a motorcycle, and a jet, The A-team had a van )I pity the Fool), Dark Wing Duck had a motorcycle and Launchpad flew the jet, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have their Turtle Van

I think it would be awesome if a new travel power pool was created. One involving vehicles.

Like:

1 - Motorcycle
2 - Car (one seater)
3 - Truck, van, or larger car (driver and team members can ride in it)
4 - Helicopter or jet (driver and team members can ride in it)

or if not a power pool, at least invention recipe.

now that is the scariest version of the 12 days of christmas I have ever heard.