Mission Architect: Realistic Solution
By
Alpha_A,
Posted on: 2009-05-26 03:53 in The Global Training Room Test Server
IF it were handled liberally, as in , someone coule still run three arcs per day (an arc being the equivalent of 5 missions) before hitting the cap, I'd be ALL FOR this soiution.
I'd heard a similar solution offered once that said they should simply add in reward timer silimar to what happens with TFs currently where after running x amount of arcs or MA missions your rewards are "frozen" and you stop recieving them. This would mean all "tickets and XP" wouldn't be awarded until mission completion however, which might be frustrating for some. I thought the idea had merrit, though, and think this does as well.
I think it's too late, at this point, honestly. Nice solution: logical, reasonable.
But we have reached the point of no return, alas. We witnessed knee-jerk reactions and counter-actions, stormy waters that cannot be recalled for recycling.
For me, I never really felt the allure of MA because, though the content was rearranged and original dialogue was injected, the content remained the same. The same as the game. Yeah, sure, I've tried my hand at writing a couple of stories---but with no enthusiasm for either the process or the product.
Best we can hope for at this point is for I15 and Rogue to wash away the bitterness and memories.
As for me, I'm done with the MA. My entire SG/VG refuses to use it for any purpose, now. Quickly, the MA buildings are nearly completely empty like the arenas. Sure, a handful use it and will continue to do so, regardless. But the throngs of players and writers are no more.
I don't play the 'regular' game any longer, btw. MA (er, well, creating my MA story) was the only reason I've been logging on lately. Now, that that incentive has been nullified, my characters gather virtual dust, waiting for something new.
I'm going to hope for something awesome from I15.
Cal2
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's too late, at this point, honestly. Nice solution: logical, reasonable.
But we have reached the point of no return, alas. We witnessed knee-jerk reactions and counter-actions, stormy waters that cannot be recalled for recycling.
For me, I never really felt the allure of MA because, though the content was rearranged and original dialogue was injected, the content remained the same. The same as the game. Yeah, sure, I've tried my hand at writing a couple of stories---but with no enthusiasm for either the process or the product.
Best we can hope for at this point is for I15 and Rogue to wash away the bitterness and memories.
As for me, I'm done with the MA. My entire SG/VG refuses to use it for any purpose, now. Quickly, the MA buildings are nearly completely empty like the arenas. Sure, a handful use it and will continue to do so, regardless. But the throngs of players and writers are no more.
I don't play the 'regular' game any longer, btw. MA (er, well, creating my MA story) was the only reason I've been logging on lately. Now, that that incentive has been nullified, my characters gather virtual dust, waiting for something new.
I'm going to hope for something awesome from I15.
Cal2
[/ QUOTE ]I agree here. They killed it with the stupidly low ticket caps. I could see them adjusting the xp and it still be useable but the ticket caps was the last straw for me. I have no reason to ever run any long arcs because I know on huge maps you can easily hit the ticket cap. I have no desire to create long well thought out challenge arcs because anyone doing them wont get the compensation they deserve for the challenge. Maybe issue 15 might change somethings who knows. If things had stayed the same I would have possibly even got a second account for the wife.
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I don't see this topic staying around any longer than it takes Mod 8 to have their first cup of coffee but to the last few posts all I can say is you love your DOOOOOM spreading don't you?
I played most of the day yesterday and saw nothing of what you portend. There were players everywhere, on Virtue, many calls for MA teams, people lining up at WWs and people flowing in and out of the MA buildings.
What I find sadly funny is the following fact:
Simply put, people are crying because they got caught doing something they were not suppose to and are indignant that someone actually had the audacity to do something about it. All this well it's the Dev's fault for leaving in the exploits - hogwash.
It's called common sense and the understanding of right and wrong.
I do think the OPs idea is a solid one, and maybe the Devs will implement something like it soon. Nothing is ever too late and the changes they have put in place now are quick stopgap measures and may change in the future.
So to the rest of you, get over your righteous indignation, it's really wearing thin.
The mission complete ticket cap should be removed. I'm no farmer, I play for story and rewards, I read mission clues and critter descriptions. And I'm collecting "tickets over the cap" badges. Something's definitely not right with that. I'm exactly the kind of player ticket caps shouldn't be hurting, but they are. Takes some of the fun out of it.
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All I want is to be able to pick the level of IO I can roll for with tickets, so I don't have to bother with auction-gougers if I don't want to.
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I don't think a daily cap is a good idea. Different people play different amounts of time each day. Why should they get the same rewards? If one person only manages to log on for an hour, they might hit the cap. Another person could be logged on for two or three hours, hit the cap after the first hour, and then what? You would punish them for continuing to use the AE, regardless of whether or not they were using it appropriately?
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<ul type="square"> [*]Daily XP/Inf/Ticket cap would mean farming would hurt the farmer's cause[/list]If the Ticket Income per Day were set around 9999, and the cap set to the current limit per map were reverted, it'd make doing 1 to 2 Arcs per a day reasonably sound. If upon reaching 9999 Tickets earned for the day, all other rewards ceased, why would folks really continue lining up and continually spam invites for an AE team?
<ul type="square"> [*]Under these changes, aberrant MA play would be discouraged[/list]The Legitimate MA'ers out there do not seek such silly unbalanced teams, because SFMA missions do not auto balance like farm missions are set up to. I guarantee you, you will not see a total stop to it, but without the insanely small limit we have on every map, a farm member reaches 9999 tickets in 2 missions tops. Under this idea [u]abusively exploiting MA this way would only force them to stop farming all the more sooner for 24 whole hours.[u] Teams like that would quickly diminish, hurting the farming cause. Make sense?
<ul type="square"> [*]These changes would still maintain a balanced Risk:Reward ratio[/list]With 9999 possible tickets per day, a maximum of 2 High-end Trial Recipes per Day would be possible, and leftover tickets could be saved for tomorrow as you wouldn't earn anymore than that for 24 entire more hours (code it the way the 72hr mission drop feature works). First ticket starts your 24hr timer. Timer resets 24hrs later, regardless if you reached the daily Limit.
<ul type="square">[*]These changes would still give MA and other Game content more equal attention[/list]City would have its PvPers, its TF runners, its leveling squads, and its MA runners. The bulk of player base's attention would not be stuck on MA. It'd give many a reason to play original content, and let Architect Entertainment cool off after using it.
This really could help Mission Architect. This approach would bring back the good things lost, and restrict the bad things, all with moderation.
Because, if they do hit the reward cap, whatever that may be set to, it really hurts them more than it hurts someone who plays a smaller amount of time. As they'd not get XP for a whole 24 hours later. However the person who plays smaller amounts of time could literally pick up at any moment and cover more created content for the same amount of reward.
Remember, the actions taken against Mission Architect are designed to Discourage farming and aberrant play. They've already stated before they will never fully be able to stop this, but at least with these changes, they would encourage farmers to go else where that's more suited to their style of play.
The reward ratio on XP and Tickets for being on a team would be on par with an actual TF. Without the Map limit, if you were on a team, even Side kicked/Lackied, you would gain significantly higher amounts of Tickets than what is currently possible in a Mission Map. Only until you reach the cap.
The daily cap is a way of saying "Great Work. Now go do something else to your recipes until tomorrow!"
I'm still playing MA and don't see the empty halls that you're talking about.
As for your idea, it's ok I suppose ... but like ITF's, players would just switch toons and have another go.
It's not like I'm advocating against the richer reward system we previously had. But when choosing between rewards and new adventures for my lowbie toons, I'll choose the game play every time ... especially MAarcs with well crafted stories and custom mobs. (A CoT or Freak in MA is still a CoT or Freak. Been there, done that.)
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With 9999 possible tickets per day
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Ticket cap isn't really 1500. If you complete the mission, the count resets. I get 2000-2500 per run of one of my missions.
So I get to run 4 MA missions and then I'm locked out of rewards for a day?
What an abjectly ridiculous idea. "Hi, Bill, you've played for 1 hour and 45 minutes. Since you have no desire to run regular content, and you've already hit your allotted MA rewards limit, you might as well log off."
"Hmm, since I can only play for less than two hours a day, I think I'll cancel my subscription instead."
Be well, people of CoH.
This is why you cap the Daily amount for the specific Global handle, the way that you gain tickets from someone rating your content.
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With 9999 possible tickets per day
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Ticket cap isn't really 1500. If you complete the mission, the count resets. I get 2000-2500 per run of one of my missions.
So I get to run 4 MA missions and then I'm locked out of rewards for a day?
<qr>
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Yes, because you are really Playing Mission architect to play the stories. There is always other things to do if you're looking for a super omg reward, like doing Flashbacks in Ouroboros, or Taskforces that both offer Merits to buy whatever specific IO you want!
MA rewards really are extremely powerful. You get Inf which can be used to buy just about anything from the Markets, but also tickets, which can buy you random recipes or specific SO's, saving you TONS of money in the long run. No, no! TONS AND TONS of money. So its not like you're really losing out on anything with only being rewarded for playing so much custom content.
BillZBubba, you're missing the point of Mission Architect if this would make you want to quit...
Its not intended to be a place for Uber Rewards... That's what the Merit Vendors are for... Take a look at what they can offer you with your level 50!
[ QUOTE ]
I've read through many posts on the forums regarding Mission Architect issues, and have talked to a lot of people on JFA and other global chat channels who really like Mission Architect. I've talked with many people who have different stances, and have formulated an idea based on my findings with the variable of hopes and desires for ways of dealing with Mission Architect's Problems. But instead of either just accepting it or dropping it, Seriously! Think about it! Here it is:
Developers, in particular, Synapse, doesn't want Mission Architect to be used for farming purposes. Sunstorm has talked about changes implimented to make Custom Critters hamper farming attempts on higher levels. Positron has stated that direct action will be taken against people who abuse exploitative content created on Mission Architect. It was never stated, however, many changes to the way AI respond to you during many different situations have been made (ex. Dispersion Bubble NPC's don't give you their protection anymore). And Moderator8 has been working their behind off to keep order within the forums because people are angry and very vocal about the changes... to the point where its all you can read about in some sections of the forums. I, for one, am sick of the negativity lavished against "The Last Game I Will Ever Play." So, why don't we think about this as a possible solution...
I strongly strongly believe 2 things should be done in regards to Mission Architect.
[u]All changes to MA's Custom Critters and Reward System (as it is of current) should be reversed.[u] Go back to square one. Roll back all those nasty attempts at stopping Farming that only seems to affect the rest.
Next,
[u]A Daily XP/Inf/Ticket reward limit on Mission Architect Content should be implemented.[u]
There you go! None of the nasty little changes remain. Can't you see it happening?
Farmers cannot farm the living guts out of MA and will go back to more controlled environments to farm and won't have room to complain.
People interested in Player Created Content will be able to create stories as first intended.
New players entering the game for the first time in Atlas or Cap Au Diable won't confuse the game for a farmer-grind from X to 50.
Our missions go back to the glorious fun they once were.
Forum activity will not be so negative.
Mission Architect's highlights will be the wonderful stories that people create with their own heart and soul.
Take it back to when everyone was enjoying everything, and fix the Farming Issue with another approach. There wouldn't be too much harm in it. Not more than what has already occurred, that's is for darn sure!
Heck! If people make their content too easy, we will have the XP cap for the day, so its hard to exploit, even then it would be easy to make use of that "Report for Content" button if need be. We could always just rate them and tell them in a comment that their story was too easy and offered no challenge if that is the case. That's what comments are supposed to be for: Constructive Criticism.
Edit: Other content, such as Original Story Arcs and Trial Zones will not get skipped over and most of City's content will not be scarcely played.
Badge-naked Characters will really cease to exist.
I know it sounds crazy, but it just might work!
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/postl...mp;Board=Ideas
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Yes, because you are really Playing Mission architect to play the stories.
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No, I'm not.
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BillZBubba, you're missing the point of Mission Architect if this would make you want to quit...
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The point of the mission architect is to allow me the ability to create the content that the devs don't put into the game.
Missions that actually challenge the characters that the current build system allows for. Missions with 12 different types of bosses from 12 different factions and nothing else.
Missions with 25 ambushes of nothing but huge spawns of multi-faction LTs.
YOU may wish to see it as nothing but a story telling tool, and that's your right. It's also my right to use to to create content that my main characters won't be bored to tears with.
Or are you in the camp that thinks I should remove all my enhancements if I need a challenge?
Be well, people of CoH.
I just want the enemies to quit being so dang hard. That's what's keeping me from MA right now. That and the annoying out of character ranged attacks all my units were forced to have.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Its not intended to be a place for Uber Rewards... That's what the Merit Vendors are for... Take a look at what they can offer you with your level 50!
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree with this alot. I been here for 5+ years and have done almost every dev made arc in the game. I could give a rats [censored] about the story at this point. I am strictly in it for the rewards specifically recipes and salvage. What I like most about the AE is that redside could finally be on equal footing as blueside in terms of earning rewards. You mention merits but dont realize the inequity that is between redside and blueside in earning potential. Even look at similar challenges that give the same amount of missions the rewards are still slanted in favor of blueside. Traveling time at this point is a non-issue with all the free travel we get in this game so that cant no longer used as an excuse not to reward more equally.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Ugh, no doubt you've seen the multitudes of bluesiders who use MA for that purpose, too, then?
I've wanted more for redsiders ever since it came out, still waiting on Trial Zones, still waiting on additional endgame Villain only content like the Shadow Shards are for Blueside, I'll just assume that Villain Trial Zones are on the famed ToDo list.
MA doesn't exactly lessen Bluesides abilities to earn what it also gives Redside. It actually makes it worse if my perspective isn't off. That's why I think, across the board, MA rewards are kinda near 'Too' powerful anyway. It needs a different approach, one that doesn't change how MA itself handles... but still offers decent reward for using it in its intended manner.
but a cap on it for 12 hours make it 10 missions, everyone wins
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Ugh, no doubt you've seen the multitudes of bluesiders who use MA for that purpose, too, then?
I've wanted more for redsiders ever since it came out, still waiting on Trial Zones, still waiting on additional endgame Villain only content like the Shadow Shards are for Blueside, I'll just assume that Villain Trial Zones are on the famed ToDo list.
MA doesn't exactly lessen Bluesides abilities to earn what it also gives Redside. It actually makes it worse if my perspective isn't off. That's why I think, across the board, MA rewards are kinda near 'Too' powerful anyway. It needs a different approach, one that doesn't change how MA itself handles... but still offers decent reward for using it in its intended manner.
[/ QUOTE ]How do you figure its too powerful? You can get the same reward in the same time doing a speed tf. So instead of speeding thru the same dev wussified content we can actually do something thats a challenge at the same time and get rewarded for it. While I agree it helps blueside just as much as redside, the MA was what was keeping the redside market alive and thriving. If something doesnt change we will be back to square one again.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
I've wanted more for redsiders ever since it came out, still waiting on Trial Zones, still waiting on additional endgame Villain only content like the Shadow Shards are for Blueside, I'll just assume that Villain Trial Zones are on the famed ToDo list.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except, possibly, for the shard, Trial Zones are on the "DO NOT DO" list.
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I've been here for almost 4 years, and like someone else said earlier, I'm tired of the existing dev content. It was great the first ten times through across thirty or so toons "actually played" from 1 to 50. I'm sick to death of CoT, Family, Rikti, Wailers, Malta, Council, Goldbrickers, etc. Arachnos is starting to grate and I never really cared for Roman themed content, although I'll agree it was refreshing.
I also don't care much for running task/strike forces as they, like the normal arcs, never change... same thing over and over. You have to wait or hunt for team members to reach the minimum team size also which is something I feel is a waste of my time. Some SF/TFs I simply have no interest in repeating ie. Shadow Shard (although it was cool) and the Positron TF (ugh!!).
If I have four hours or more to play per day, which I normally do, and since this new MA system was presented (in articles and or NCsoft press) as a way to level from 1 to 50, it had better remain a way to do just that.
I don't care much for what happens with tickets, however I strongly oppose the attempt to cap xp in the MA system. Furthermore, I don't appreciate someone suggesting I "do something else" when "they" feel I've spent enough time in the MA system per day. I play solo and will not stand to be penalized for exploring MA arcs. I simple won't have it.
That said, if you're suggesting there be a cap on tickets/xp for x number of runs per day of any arc by a specific author, that at least makes the slightest bit of sense in the holy crusade to crush farming. I just want to play different arcs and still gain xp/prestige for it. If I continue to receive tickets as well, it's just another badge to me. It still seems unfair to anyone who expected to use the MA system as an alternative to the preexisting content.
[ QUOTE ]
Because, if they do hit the reward cap, whatever that may be set to, it really hurts them more than it hurts someone who plays a smaller amount of time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. That sounds like a problem to me.
A daily reward cap would hurt farmers, but it would also hurt people who just play the game a lot, and it would especially hurt the people who really like the MA and who use it a lot. People have already created characters and formed teams dedicated to leveling up only in the MA. Why should they be punished?
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
I've read through many posts on the forums regarding Mission Architect issues, and have talked to a lot of people on JFA and other global chat channels who really like Mission Architect. I've talked with many people who have different stances, and have formulated an idea based on my findings with the variable of hopes and desires for ways of dealing with Mission Architect's Problems. But instead of either just accepting it or dropping it, Seriously! Think about it! Here it is:
Developers, in particular, Synapse, doesn't want Mission Architect to be used for farming purposes. Sunstorm has talked about changes implimented to make Custom Critters hamper farming attempts on higher levels. Positron has stated that direct action will be taken against people who abuse exploitative content created on Mission Architect. It was never stated, however, many changes to the way AI respond to you during many different situations have been made (ex. Dispersion Bubble NPC's don't give you their protection anymore). And Moderator8 has been working their behind off to keep order within the forums because people are angry and very vocal about the changes... to the point where its all you can read about in some sections of the forums. I, for one, am sick of the negativity lavished against "The Last Game I Will Ever Play." So, why don't we think about this as a possible solution...
I strongly strongly believe 2 things should be done in regards to Mission Architect.
[u]All changes to MA's Custom Critters and Reward System (as it is of current) should be reversed.[u] Go back to square one. Roll back all those nasty attempts at stopping Farming that only seems to affect the rest.
Next,
[u]A Daily XP/Inf/Ticket reward limit on Mission Architect Content should be implemented.[u]
There you go! None of the nasty little changes remain. Can't you see it happening?
Farmers cannot farm the living guts out of MA and will go back to more controlled environments to farm and won't have room to complain.
People interested in Player Created Content will be able to create stories as first intended.
New players entering the game for the first time in Atlas or Cap Au Diable won't confuse the game for a farmer-grind from X to 50.
Our missions go back to the glorious fun they once were.
Forum activity will not be so negative.
Mission Architect's highlights will be the wonderful stories that people create with their own heart and soul.
Take it back to when everyone was enjoying everything, and fix the Farming Issue with another approach. There wouldn't be too much harm in it. Not more than what has already occurred, that's is for darn sure!
Heck! If people make their content too easy, we will have the XP cap for the day, so its hard to exploit, even then it would be easy to make use of that "Report for Content" button if need be. We could always just rate them and tell them in a comment that their story was too easy and offered no challenge if that is the case. That's what comments are supposed to be for: Constructive Criticism.
Edit: Other content, such as Original Story Arcs and Trial Zones will not get skipped over and most of City's content will not be scarcely played.
Badge-naked Characters will really cease to exist.
I know it sounds crazy, but it just might work!