Mission Architect: Realistic Solution
By
Alpha_A,
Posted on: 2009-05-26 03:53 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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Yes, because you are really Playing Mission architect to play the stories.
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No, I'm not.
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BillZBubba, you're missing the point of Mission Architect if this would make you want to quit...
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The point of the mission architect is to allow me the ability to create the content that the devs don't put into the game.
Missions that actually challenge the characters that the current build system allows for. Missions with 12 different types of bosses from 12 different factions and nothing else.
Missions with 25 ambushes of nothing but huge spawns of multi-faction LTs.
YOU may wish to see it as nothing but a story telling tool, and that's your right. It's also my right to use to to create content that my main characters won't be bored to tears with.
Or are you in the camp that thinks I should remove all my enhancements if I need a challenge?
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It is your right as long as it falls within the acceptable parameters that are currently being enforced in the game. If you just want the challenge of the fight then you need to ask the Devs to allow overloaded missions as long as you get no reward out of it except the fact you can defeat the mobs.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see the main purpose of the MA. It was so the customer could create their own content - STORIED content.
The limits for tickets being enforced now are no more restricting than the limits that WoW has for daily quests. You hit your daily limit, you can't do anymore until the next day. Shrug, seems fine to me.
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It is your right as long as it falls within the acceptable parameters that are currently being enforced in the game. If you just want the challenge of the fight then you need to ask the Devs to allow overloaded missions as long as you get no reward out of it except the fact you can defeat the mobs.
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Both of my missions are still active. I do not advertise them. If I could, they would be published and hidden. Risk does not equal reward if the missions I build give me nothing for the challenge I'm creating. Your solution is not a solution at all.
As my missions are still active, they must fall into the territory of "acceptable parameters." Since this is the case, I should be rewarded normally for running them. Take away the rewards and the challenge loses meaning.
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It does not take a rocket scientist to see the main purpose of the MA. It was so the customer could create their own content - STORIED content.
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You must not be a rocket scientist. It's not that difficult to understand. The main purpose of the MA is to allow for player generated content. Nothing more, nothing less. My content will differ from yours. Deal with it.
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The limits for tickets being enforced now are no more restricting than the limits that WoW has for daily quests. You hit your daily limit, you can't do anymore until the next day. Shrug, seems fine to me.
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WoW is steaming POS of a game that I played for a week trying to find some redeeming qualities in it. I obviously found none. If this game turns into that, I won't be around for it.
I was in I-14 beta. I let my account lapse while it was still on the test server. I came back only because of the freebie week and decided that, yes, the MA offered enough to keep me around. I'm having fun again.
Take away the fun, and gone again I'll be. I have no doubt that I'll be back for Going Rogue for a month, but wouldn't the devs prefer to get 12 months of sub money from me rather than 2 a year?
Be well, people of CoH.
Well... whatever... I thought it was an ok idea, obviously.
While I don't know what the Dev's think should be a decent reward cap, they obviously know what they want players to be able to earn more than I do, since I didn't make Mission Architect.
For the record, Tickets are extremely powerful because they replace Inf. If you spent money buying enhancements all the way up to level 50, you really would spend in the area of about 50m influence. I've leveled a char from 1-50 in MA, and earned around 54m inf by the time I got to 50. I was able to keep fresh enhancements in my inventory at all times without spending a single Inf, and on top of that, bought innumerable amounts of Large Inspirations and Gold Rank Trial Recipes, and quickly realized Influence pretty much went way down in value.
For the record, you should be able to create a mission full of Lieutenants if you want for the challenge. I never said these ideas were bad. I wanted to make an Arena style Mission, where you and an AV Ranked ally fight 2 AV Ranked Enemies, becuase i knew it would be a ton of fun to do, for the challenge of it all (couldn't do it with current MA things.)
For the record, Making a 20 min mission that gives you the same reward as the Statesman Task Force/Recluse Taskforce and Shard TF's or better is what got all this mess started in the first place.
I really only want to be able to play the stories people create and enjoy them. I really only want to make stories that some people will enjoy. It's not possible with the way things are now, and it wont be until some of these changes get rolled back. IF they get rolled back, people will likely attempt to go back to their old ways, ways of ruin.
My solution was just a possible solution, a very basic idea to get the creative juices flowing on ways of making the Developer's and the Community happy. If you have a better idea, by all means, DO NOT KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF. The Developers do look at these kinds of posts, after all. As for me, I'm done, I don't care anymore. Too many negative people for me. The whole thing just got really stupid when people made it really stupid.
I really understand why red names ignore people now, I really do...
For those of you who stay with us, I'll see you in game. 
glad to see Bill is back for a while.
hopefully plaync will do more to keep great players like him around.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Yes, because you are really Playing Mission architect to play the stories.
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No, I'm not.
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BillZBubba, you're missing the point of Mission Architect if this would make you want to quit...
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The point of the mission architect is to allow me the ability to create the content that the devs don't put into the game.
Missions that actually challenge the characters that the current build system allows for. Missions with 12 different types of bosses from 12 different factions and nothing else.
Missions with 25 ambushes of nothing but huge spawns of multi-faction LTs.
YOU may wish to see it as nothing but a story telling tool, and that's your right. It's also my right to use to to create content that my main characters won't be bored to tears with.
Or are you in the camp that thinks I should remove all my enhancements if I need a challenge?
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Clearly you aren't using MA the way the dev's intended. They have taken considerable action to make it abundantly clear that they want MA used for stories and stories only.
Your playstyle might not get axed, but if/when it does don't be too surprised. I'll feel bad for you because that is mostly how I used MA too.
The argument that MA is a tool to create what we want to play has been falling on deaf ears. They want it to be a tool to create stories. But only stories that fall in to their specific set of criteria.
The per mission ticket cap* is all the capping needed. The OP's idea is not something that is needed, nor does it make any sense for a variety of stated and unstated reasons.
Players with a stick it to the "other" player mentality always come up with half baked "TERRIBLE" ideas like this in a vain attempt to control what "other' players can or cannot do, its sickening. The devs have this covered they don't need anymore ideas on how to hurt the playerbase.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I've wanted more for redsiders ever since it came out, still waiting on Trial Zones, still waiting on additional endgame Villain only content like the Shadow Shards are for Blueside, I'll just assume that Villain Trial Zones are on the famed ToDo list.
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Except, possibly, for the shard, Trial Zones are on the "DO NOT DO" list.
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Hopefully they don't waste time on a vill side Shard. All 4 people/day that use the blueside one and all.
Lady_Myrmidon,
I know your heart's probably in the right place, but when putting forth any idea on any topic, we have to ask ourselves "who does this screw over?"
Sometimes the answer is surprising.
Be well, people of CoH.
A hard cap will cause problems instead of fixing them. Instead, there needs to be a system of diminishing returns per arc. First run is the full 100% reward, second run is 90%, the third is 80%, etc. It allows players to play as many different arcs as they want and even replay the same arc a couple of times and get a decent reward. Some farming is still allowed and farmers can get to be open about it while exploits (which should be stopped anyway) are only capable of being so good since the rewards drop over time.
Degrading rewards are no different than capping them. Either way, players utilizing the MA for the majority of their playtime get screwed.
Therefore, unacceptable.
Be well, people of CoH.
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The mission complete ticket cap should be removed. I'm no farmer, I play for story and rewards, I read mission clues and critter descriptions. And I'm collecting "tickets over the cap" badges. Something's definitely not right with that. I'm exactly the kind of player ticket caps shouldn't be hurting, but they are. Takes some of the fun out of it.
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Believe me, I am just like you.
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I don't think a daily cap is a good idea. Different people play different amounts of time each day. Why should they get the same rewards? If one person only manages to log on for an hour, they might hit the cap. Another person could be logged on for two or three hours, hit the cap after the first hour, and then what? You would punish them for continuing to use the AE, regardless of whether or not they were using it appropriately?
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I do not think it is fair either. At the moment though, this is Exactly how it is. everything we do is more than cut in half now because of the changes that were forced on MA due to trying to stop abnormal MA usage. I really hate that this is the way it is already.
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"Hmm, since I can only play for less than two hours a day, I think I'll cancel my subscription instead."
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You and I are not so different. I play only slightly more than you because I have to work all of the time. But someone who farmed this before earn exponentially more than you and I could for the same amount of time. There really aren't too many ways of standardizing things unless you take extreme measures. The current extreme measures though, just make things imppossible to play with a view to custom critters...
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The point of the mission architect is to allow me the ability to create the content that the devs don't put into the game.
Missions that actually challenge the characters that the current build system allows for. Missions with 12 different types of bosses from 12 different factions and nothing else.
Missions with 25 ambushes of nothing but huge spawns of multi-faction LTs.
YOU may wish to see it as nothing but a story telling tool, and that's your right. It's also my right to use to to create content that my main characters won't be bored to tears with.
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I liked your post BillZBubba. I rather agree with it as a form of storytelling. Sounds incredibly tough and challenging. I'm sorry i misunderstood it the first time around, i had no sleep...
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Yes. That sounds like a problem to me.
A daily reward cap would hurt farmers, but it would also hurt people who just play the game a lot, and it would especially hurt the people who really like the MA and who use it a lot. People have already created characters and formed teams dedicated to leveling up only in the MA. Why should they be punished?
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We really shouldn't, Peterpeter. But now we just plain can't play liberally at all. And i really hope that changes in the near future. The days of my sub are ticking by and im not able to do what i really wish i could be doing with what little time i get to spend in game...
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worst idea ever, for all the reasons stated in this thread.
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Its really just an idea. What would you change to make it better, Aura_Famila?
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The limits for tickets being enforced now are no more restricting than the limits that WoW has for daily quests. You hit your daily limit, you can't do anymore until the next day. Shrug, seems fine to me.
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Evidently, Developers dont see Ticket's as a real reward since we go through all the risks involved now without getting the proper ratio they mention... So I don't really know what to say about it...
It's really clear! Until there is a way to discourage farming this stuff enough without totally screwing up the genius idea that MA is, its going to be nothing but a haven for grinding and aberrant play. The 100s, if not, 1000s that should be playing our arcs and giving us feedback will continue on oblivious with those stellar xp dumps they are so engorged in right now.
Hate it or love it. Its only my solution to this whole faux pas. So if you really just want the old MA back, come up with your own solution. The Developers are likely to glean something from what you come up with. It's your game too, since you pay for it. Insulting them is only going to put more stress and pressure on them. And who can really work under those kinds of conditions???
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Clearly you aren't using MA the way the dev's intended. They have taken considerable action to make it abundantly clear that they want MA used for stories and stories only.
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One mans story is another mans farm. 
Seriously though, the farmers will just get more creative, not that difficult. I would rather have farms in one area, stories in other. The devs just need to give the farmers their outlet, within reason of course, and be done with it. The harder they squeeze, the more the farmers and subscribers will slip through their grasp.
I agree with OmegaS. If peeps do not wish to farm don't. MA was great before and helped me level a few alts (not to 50 i might add) 
. Lowies on the farms were playing and not door sitting. Vets were teaching new peeps ins and outs of the game. Peeps were renewing their subs, life was good. I agree exploits had to be fixed, that's part of the game. But heavy handed threats is something entirely different. I love COX and looking forward to I15 and Rogue. Lets put this ugly mess behind us and look forward to good things to come.
My 2 influ, merits, tickets or whatever. 
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
__________________________________________
Orion Darkstorm lvl 50 tank (invul/ss/nrg) 483 badges
Ima Mann lvl 50 pb 397 badges
American Agent lvl 50 blstr (nrg/nrg/nrg) 279 badges
As a veteran player , I totally agree on a cap for rewards daily on AE missions.
/signed
Dragon Wraith lvl 50 DM/Reg/DM Scrapper
Mud Lark lvl 50 SA/SS/EM Tanker
Galaxy Archon Athena lvl 50 Tri-Form PB
Miss Victory lvl 50 MA/inv/BM Scrapper
US Thunder lvl 50 Elec/Elec/Elec Blaster
Yeah, as a veteran player I am glad the devs don't agree with you.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Just because they haven't done it yet doesn't mean they don't agree with him. They did put the stupid merit caps in to stop repeated runs of SF/TFs after all.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Just because they haven't done it yet doesn't mean they don't agree with him. They did put the stupid merit caps in to stop repeated runs of SF/TFs after all.
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Good to see folks are fighting against ideas that will lead to the death of the MA.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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For the record, Making a 20 min mission that gives you the same reward as the Statesman Task Force/Recluse Taskforce and Shard TF's or better is what got all this mess started in the first place.
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First, you posted your OP in the wrong forum. Should've posted to Suggestions.
Second, you pointed out that in the original implementation it was trivial to create 20 minute missions that gave the same rewards as the most difficult TFs in the game. And your suggestion is to revert back to that system? 
Do you remember what Croatoa was like with the Speed KHTFs? That's what the AE would be like under your proposal. It wouldn't fix anything. It'd be constant non-stop farming. But after someone hit their daily cap, they'd go on to other things just like people did with KHTF.
The changes the devs made have been steps in the right direction. They just need to change it to prevent maps of all one rank (i.e. no more all-boss, or all-LT or all-minion maps) and eliminate the auto-SK system.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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The changes the devs made have been steps in the right direction. They just need to change it to prevent maps of all one rank (i.e. no more all-boss, or all-LT or all-minion maps) and eliminate the auto-SK system.
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Not sure I get this one. As long as the risk:reward ratio functions as it should, why would any of these examples matter?
I've only been in one arc that had an all boss spawn. If it had been the first mission in the arc, I probably would have dropped it. However, it was not and I wanted to complete the arc.
It was hard. Made doubly so because all of the bosses looked the same and had the same name, but only one was "the" boss that had to be taken out.
Since it was very challenging, I would not consider that a farm, especially since the mission completed when the key boss was eliminated. Those who wanted to end the mission at that point (like my wife and I) could; those who wanted to continue fighting could.
There is nothing wrong with "challenge" missions. The issue is with "no challenge" missions that give fantastic rewards. In other words, when the risk:reward ratio is out of whack.
Personally, I prefer a blend of ranks; it just gives more variety and fun to the mission to me. However, I'm not going to substitute my preferences for how everyone should set up their missions.
Auto-SK allows a much wider variety of content in the MA for all levels. I've played a number of missions where the "level" range jumped around -- including some higher than my character's current level, and some lower (I auto-exemplared those). They were still fun. There is the potential for abuse, but it's hardly a gamebreaker.
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The changes the devs made have been steps in the right direction. They just need to change it to prevent maps of all one rank (i.e. no more all-boss, or all-LT or all-minion maps) and eliminate the auto-SK system.
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Not sure I get this one. As long as the risk:reward ratio functions as it should, why would any of these examples matter?
I've only been in one arc that had an all boss spawn. If it had been the first mission in the arc, I probably would have dropped it. However, it was not and I wanted to complete the arc.
It was hard. Made doubly so because all of the bosses looked the same and had the same name, but only one was "the" boss that had to be taken out.
Since it was very challenging, I would not consider that a farm
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It doesn't matter if you consider a map a farm or not. Just go to the AE and look at the constant broadcast for all boss map farms. If it's being farmed heavily, it's a farm.
A team having a granite brute, a Kin, and 2 permadoms plus various AOE damage dealers can destroy pretty much any map. But when they are unleashed on an all boss map the rewards are significantly higher than on a normal map with mixed ranks.
I think the devs will be satisfied as long as farming is kept to something that's happening in the background as opposed to dominating the AE. I don't think that goal has been met yet. The changes I suggested would further tilt the balance.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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It doesn't matter if you consider a map a farm or not. Just go to the AE and look at the constant broadcast for all boss map farms. If it's being farmed heavily, it's a farm.
A team having a granite brute, a Kin, and 2 permadoms plus various AOE damage dealers can destroy pretty much any map. But when they are unleashed on an all boss map the rewards are significantly higher than on a normal map with mixed ranks.
I think the devs will be satisfied as long as farming is kept to something that's happening in the background as opposed to dominating the AE. I don't think that goal has been met yet. The changes I suggested would further tilt the balance.
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Ah. Well, as one who doesn't farm, I guess I've never looked into the possibilities. I mostly run with my wife and/or daughter, or solo. Toss one two of our brothers in for a "big" group.
The only concern I have is that we will get so consumed with curbing "non-exploitive" farming, that we'll step on those who enjoy features *without* farming or exploiting.
It's a razor's edge for the devs. I don't envy them.
If there were going to be a 24-hour cap on Tickets it would have to be high. Some people play a lot, especially on the weekend. As has been noted, the 1500 ticket cap is too low for some legitimate, non-farming missions already (although I haven't run into this myself).
The serious farmers and RMTers just switch characters anyway. This really wouldn't stop them.
An XP limit - if there isn't one in game, there shouldn't be in MA. It's that simple. There's a loading screen tip that says you can level 1-50 in MA, to put a limit on leveling in MA that doesn't exist in the rest of MA would make that a lie.
Diminishing returns would kill MA. This is a stinker of an idea. I'm as anti-farmer as it gets, but even I would balk at doing more than one or three MA missions, just one arc tops, if there were diminishing returns. My arc is five missions long. By the time someone was on the last mission they would be getting only 80% tickets? How many players on a team of 8 would really stick around that long. Not just no, HELL NO.
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Diminishing returns would kill MA. This is a stinker of an idea. I'm as anti-farmer as it gets, but even I would balk at doing more than one or three MA missions, just one arc tops, if there were diminishing returns. My arc is five missions long. By the time someone was on the last mission they would be getting only 80% tickets?
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The concept was for diminishing returns to be on a per arc basis, not a per mission basis (which WOULD be stupid since longer arcs suffer enough as it is). You would have to play the entire arc (or start the arc and quit) before DR would ever kick in. Even then, it would only be for repeating that exact same arc within a time period.
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Missions with 25 ambushes of nothing but huge spawns of multi-faction LTs.
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That's it? Geesh, and I've been working on the mish with 25 ambushes of nothing but huge spawns of multi-faction EB's.... (kids, do not do this at home)
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Because, if they do hit the reward cap, whatever that may be set to, it really hurts them more than it hurts someone who plays a smaller amount of time.
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Yes. That sounds like a problem to me.
A daily reward cap would hurt farmers, but it would also hurt people who just play the game a lot, and it would especially hurt the people who really like the MA and who use it a lot. People have already created characters and formed teams dedicated to leveling up only in the MA. Why should they be punished?
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worst idea ever, for all the reasons stated in this thread.
But with the current atmosphere would not be surprised if it gets implemented, and then the devs are left wondering "how come there are less folks running MA missions?"
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!