The Case for the Fitness Pool, part 10,000...
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2009-05-21 17:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Man... This takes me back to my Dark/Dark scrapper days.
...
And now that I think about it, the days in which I had decided to bring my Peacebringer up to fifty using only powers in my Primary and Secondary, and purposely choosing to do so WITHOUT any enhancements. I was tempted to go without the PB forms and/or go solo. 
P.S. I was NOT aware that my first scrapper would suck the life out of an endurance bar like mosquitoes to a blood. However, I was aware that I had gimped my Peacebringer in the journey to Fifty Land.
My first character Organica was originally katana/dark. People told me that stamina would help, but by the mid teens I decided to delete and reroll as a katana/regen. Which wasn't a bad choice, especially back in those earlydays. ^_^
But yeah, stamina WOULD have helped if I'd lasted that long.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Fire guy [not his real name]: Man, i need to slot me some of those endurance reducing thingys!
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i'd say this is at least as big a factor as not having Stamina. Even with stamina it's easy to frequently run out of end if you don't slot any endurance reduction in your attacks. i almost always slot end reducers and take Fitness, but pre-20 to 24 end reducers do a lot more for staying in the fight.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
<.< I'm doing fine as dark/regen without stamina.
/regen is perfectly easy to level without stamina.
/dark is not easy at all.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
The first thing I always do, before a travel power is slot something for fitness. Especially in my blasters. I just started playing an arch/emp character and will be taking stamina asap. its almost a most anymore in this game... or maybe thats just cause I'm a blaster at heart. Haha.
On another note, Bad, I've noticed an increase in highly annoying people in the game... especially joining TFs and AEs. I dont know why... but I've been playing for almost 3 months and never encountered such craziness. Its saddening sometimes.
Something is not adding up:
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Fire guy: Can someone combine some stuff and make some blues for me?
Bad: leave a slot open, inspirations will drop. Plus you get badges for inspirations dropped in AE missions.
Fire guy: really? Cool! Can you make me some blues?
Bad: No.
Time passes....
Fire guy: Anybody got blues? I need them bad.
Bad: Right click on one, if you got three of a kind you can make a blue.
Fire guy: You can?
Bad: Yes.
Fire guy: LOL! Cool! I had no idea you could do that!
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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On another note, Bad, I've noticed an increase in highly annoying people in the game... especially joining TFs and AEs. I dont know why... but I've been playing for almost 3 months and never encountered such craziness. Its saddening sometimes.
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It's due to rampant PLing of new players in MA. They don't know how to play their characters.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
[ QUOTE ]
Something is not adding up:
[ QUOTE ]
Fire guy: Can someone combine some stuff and make some blues for me?
Bad: leave a slot open, inspirations will drop. Plus you get badges for inspirations dropped in AE missions.
Fire guy: really? Cool! Can you make me some blues?
Bad: No.
Time passes....
Fire guy: Anybody got blues? I need them bad.
Bad: Right click on one, if you got three of a kind you can make a blue.
Fire guy: You can?
Bad: Yes.
Fire guy: LOL! Cool! I had no idea you could do that!
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Yeah, that's the very FIRST thing that I noticed too.
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Man... This takes me back to my Dark/Dark scrapper days.
P.S. I was NOT aware that my first scrapper would suck the life out of an endurance bar like mosquitoes to a blood.
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I am running a Broadsword/dark Scrapper right now. He's pretty damn hard on the END issues, but he has Fitness and he is heavily slotted for END reduction - and I'm not done slotting for that yet either. [He's level 38.5 now].
I like him a lot, dark armor is one of the coolest looking sets in the game. And once you get a -KB IO slotted, its almost bearable to play. I won't be rolling any more, though. I probably burned through at least 18,000 tickets trying to get a -KB off of a Bronze reward roll. I had multiple parts of incredibly rare sets dropping - everything but that. I was close to despair.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, I think we really do have a bunch of "AE PL babies" running around right now; but I am looking foreward to them either wising up and learning how to play in this game [optimal outcome], or returning to WoW. Newb-itude is reigning supreme these days; ugh.
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Something is not adding up:
[ QUOTE ]
Fire guy: Can someone combine some stuff and make some blues for me?
Bad: leave a slot open, inspirations will drop. Plus you get badges for inspirations dropped in AE missions.
Fire guy: really? Cool! Can you make me some blues?
Bad: No.
Time passes....
Fire guy: Anybody got blues? I need them bad.
Bad: Right click on one, if you got three of a kind you can make a blue.
Fire guy: You can?
Bad: Yes.
Fire guy: LOL! Cool! I had no idea you could do that!
[/ QUOTE ]
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Yeah, that's the very FIRST thing that I noticed too.
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That actually got said, though. I was a bit puzzled by it myself, but these days I am harder and harder to surprise in-game. [sigh]
I played the ITF last night with a couple people I found looking for an ITF in Cimerora and this kid joined the team and was actively pissing people off. It baffled me. He ran ahead, refused to stay with us, and said things to make other members angry. I swear to God he was 12 and PLed his way to 40-something before they nerfed farms. I've never seen such sheer idiocy.
EDIT: On another note... I'm 21, been playing since January 10th or something... and I can play this game very well. Maybe I picked it up quick... but I dont understand why people find learning to play "appropriately" for lack of a better word, hard.
I love my EM/WP tank. I didn't need fitness after I experimented with IO's. But I feel for you, Bad. We need a headsmack emote in this game.
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Fire guy: LOL! I'm not wasting power picks on stamina, be serious.
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How is this any more of a waste then converting your INS to blues when they could be used to say... boost your toon...
It would just be a diff way to boost your toon in a manner that wouldn't require wasting other resources... Am I missing something?
A travel power isn't as much a necessity as character longevity is... Between the diff perks of Pocket D travel and Mission travel, its easy to get around without using a travel power.
Also, if a person prefers not to waste the points on fitness, but knows they can't be resting every 5 seconds in a team...couldn't they just take a secondary team spec with fitness and swap to it when needed without affecting their primary build?
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
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I tried on my Dark/Dark Defender to go Stamina-less by slotting everything with EndRedux and maximizing +End +Recovery IO bonuses. Didn't work. Always running out of End.
Switched to Stamina with Performance Shifter four slotted giving a 97% enhancement to Stamina plus the proc giving more End, and giving a 2.5% IO Recovery bonus. Then put Miracle +Recovery and Numina +Recovery in Health for another 25% Recovery. Plus with all the other little bonuses, I have over 100% +Recovery.
Now, I can TP across a Shard Zone with all my toggles running without running out of End.
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Reminds me of when the game first launched and I took every available attack from Katana, plus Air Superiority, Hover, Fly, Hasten and Flurry (lulz), and only took the mandatory first power from Super Reflexes.
Wow I was a n00b then. It was my first MMO, so I had no concept of "MP," "mana" or whatever you want to call it that didn't come from console RPGs. And mind you, the respec trials weren't activated at the game's launch and didn't come out until Issue 1 if memory serves. I shelved the character at level 18 until that date and started working on a Dark/Regen Scrapper that I built a lot smarter... though I still took Teleport Foe (lololz) with him. 
No wonder it took me 35 months to hit 50 with that character.
Moral of the Story
If you're coming to the game for the first time in its five year life thus far, it's okay to be a n00b. It's not okay to disregard the advice of those of us who have already been there. It benefits us just as much as it does you to have you molded into a competent player and teammate as soon as possible.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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<.< I'm doing fine as dark/regen without stamina.
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I have a Fire/Energy Blaster that does just fine without Stamina. In fact, a large majority of my characters don't have Stamina and don't have problems. But then, I have a different play style than the majority of the players as well.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
I actually found Stamina to be pretty optional on my Blaster. I took it eventually, mostly just for quicker recovery after using Nova. I watch the green bar on my Blaster, not the blue one.
Granted, I put End Reducers in my attacks. If you don't do that, then yeah, you might run into trouble.
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Fire guy: I have no blue bar lol, I need an insta-getyourendback power lol! Why dont they make that?!
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*cough*Consume*cough*
Oddly enough, it makes nuking fairly painless for my Fire/Fire Blaster.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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That actually got said, though. I was a bit puzzled by it myself, but these days I am harder and harder to surprise in-game. [sigh]
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I assumed it was sarcasm. Either that or the player of the fire blaster was deliberately being annoying for the fun of it.
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The scene: an AE team, everyone is autoexemped up to 50. On the team is a level 32ish Fire/fire Blaster. Please keep in mind that Bad has her own level 35 Fire/fire Blaster, so is aware of how these characters roll. [Bad's Blaster was not on the team at the time.]...
...
...BUT DON'T ASK OTHERS FOR BLUES.
/headdesk
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I feel your pain...
I've actually argued in the past that Fitness should be an inherent that unlocks over time. There are the odd players that don't take it and insist that it's not necessary and that you can run a character just fine without it, and they have a point... the problem is that a very specific build and playstyle are required to make up the short-fall for not having Stamina.
This is obviously a case where the guy had no idea how to play the game, or how the powers work in conjunction with one another. You're right, the reality is that if he sacrificed a few of those powers in his primary/secondary he could be far more effective (seriously, the idea of a fire/fire blaster without Stamina really ups the pucker-factor for me... especially given that my main has been a fire/fire blaster since launch) at "blowing stuff up".
There's not much you can do with a guy like that, but I'd likely have tried, much like you did, to educate him gently and let him know of a way he could accomplish what he wanted much easier, but if he kept it up I'd probalby just put him on /ignore for the rest of the mission.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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The scene: an AE team, everyone is autoexemped up to 50. On the team is a level 32ish Fire/fire Blaster. Please keep in mind that Bad has her own level 35 Fire/fire Blaster, so is aware of how these characters roll. [Bad's Blaster was not on the team at the time.]...
...
...BUT DON'T ASK OTHERS FOR BLUES.
/headdesk
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I feel your pain...
I've actually argued in the past that Fitness should be an inherent that unlocks over time. There are the odd players that don't take it and insist that it's not necessary and that you can run a character just fine without it, and they have a point... the problem is that a very specific build and playstyle are required to make up the short-fall for not having Stamina.
This is obviously a case where the guy had no idea how to play the game, or how the powers work in conjunction with one another. You're right, the reality is that if he sacrificed a few of those powers in his primary/secondary he could be far more effective (seriously, the idea of a fire/fire blaster without Stamina really ups the pucker-factor for me... especially given that my main has been a fire/fire blaster since launch) at "blowing stuff up".
There's not much you can do with a guy like that, but I'd likely have tried, much like you did, to educate him gently and let him know of a way he could accomplish what he wanted much easier, but if he kept it up I'd probalby just put him on /ignore for the rest of the mission.
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I don't think a specific build really needs to be made to compensate. I think the crux of the matter is that making other people wait for you to play catchup (unless they are friends) is unfair to them. If someone wants to run SFs on their own and rest after every pull they can and they have every right to play that way, but in a group a more 'global' attitude should be developed because its no longer just the dynamic of one player.
I have Stamina on my MM or else I wouldn't be able to run with forcefields up, and maintain the buff shields and keep aggro all at the same time. Once I put up both dispersion Field and Force Bubble then I need to really watch what I do because the endurance recovery is extremely slow with everything on.
If i were to make an MM build that didn't need passive endurance then I wouldn't worry about stamina when I game, but I would definitely have an alternate setup using stamina for groups.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
[ QUOTE ]
i'd say this is at least as big a factor as not having Stamina. Even with stamina it's easy to frequently run out of end if you don't slot any endurance reduction in your attacks. i almost always slot end reducers and take Fitness, but pre-20 to 24 end reducers do a lot more for staying in the fight.
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Pre-24, I agree completely, though, to be honest, I've never slotted endredux pre-24 on any of my characters and felt I was doing fine. Perhaps slower than others, but I always got to 24 fairly quickly in my eyes.
After stamina and some slots though, it really depends on who you group with or how you play. If you play solo, I could see where endredux + stamina would be a big help, but if you group and get endurance buffs, imo, the endredux would be wasted.
My main since the date I started playing (whatever the reg date is here) has been an nrg/nrg blaster. No endredux at 50. In groups I find I never have an issue with endurance when buffs are running.
I'm not saying I believe in the theory of "I just want to blow stuff up", but, to me, it feels like having mostly accuracy and damage ultimately means more efficient endurance use because mobs don't require multiple casts.
Partial Character List:
LENINA 198-DELTA - 50+3 DP/Kin Corruptor (Main) / Captiosus - 50+3 Energy/Energy Blaster
Highlands.Hellraiser - 50+1 DS/Fire Tanker / SpazRat - 50 Claw/SR Stalker
Col. Gregor Aktaybr - 45 Robots/Time MM
The scene: an AE team, everyone is autoexemped up to 50. On the team is a level 32ish Fire/fire Blaster. Please keep in mind that Bad has her own level 35 Fire/fire Blaster, so is aware of how these characters roll. [Bad's Blaster was not on the team at the time.]
Said Blaster on the team is always running on 2 ticks of END. I don't pay this much mind, since its his blue bar not mine, until....
Fire guy [not his real name]: Man, i need to slot me some of those endurance reducing thingys!
time passes...
Fire guy: Wow, I have no endurance lol.
time passes....
Fire guy: I have no blue bar lol, I need an insta-getyourendback power lol! Why dont they make that?!
[Bad pulls up his powers-list. Sure enough, he's got most of his primary and secondary good stuff that he's of a level to get, & a travel power. Not the beginnings of Fitness to be seen anywhere.]
Bad: Why don't you pick up the Fitness pool? It'll really help you out.
Fire guy: LOL! I wanna blow stuff up!
Time passes...
Fire guy: Anyone got any blues?
Time passes...
Fire guy: Can someone combine some stuff and make some blues for me?
Bad: leave a slot open, inspirations will drop. Plus you get badges for inspirations dropped in AE missions.
Fire guy: really? Cool! Can you make me some blues?
Bad: No.
Time passes....
Fire guy: Anybody got blues? I need them bad.
Bad: Right click on one, if you got three of a kind you can make a blue.
Fire guy: You can?
Bad: Yes.
Fire guy: LOL! Cool! I had no idea you could do that!
Time passes....
Fire guy: I got no endurance! This is keeping me from blowing stuff uP! Damn!
Bad: Why not pick up Fitness?
Fire guy: LOL! That's boring. I wanna NUKE STUFF.
Bad: Having Stamina helps you nuke stuff a lot faster, trust me.
Fire guy: LOL! I'm not wasting power picks on stamina, be serious. Hey you guys, can you make me some blues? I made some but I need more.
..... And on it went through an hour-long mission. the moral of the story: if you dont want to "waste power picks" on Fitness, that is your lookout.
BUT DON'T ASK OTHERS FOR BLUES.
/headdesk