If a PvP'er were trully elite...they wouldn't whine and quit over pvp 2.0.
Whining is not an elite activity...anyone can do it.
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.
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Yes, there's something obviously wrong with the people that loved dynamic team roles and mechanics that made sense.
It's no small wonder the world is in its current state.
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Dynamic team roles may have been awesome in arena pvp, particularly amongst the test arena scene. But to the average pvpers (like me) or the people who don't pvp, test arena pvp was an elite clique that would take huge ammounts of effort to get anywhere near. The rest of the pvp was the occasional random arena match or zone pvp where most of these 'dynamic team roles' were more often than not badly crippled by the inherent lack or organization in these areas.
Having never been in that elite pvp group I can't say if it was great, but the fact that they mostly left speaks volumes. However, that small elite group was the only part of the player base that could truly appreciate the high end pvp content in the game. The pvp system really was quite flawed when looked at from the context of the more low end pvp, which a larger majority of the pvp community would be in if there actually was a large pvp community, or at least the devs thought so, and I would agree.
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Well said.
I like the way PvP is now and the direction its heading. Sure there are still things that need to be tweaked and fixed, but for the most part I fail to see PvP as entirely broken. PvP will keep evolving and eventually reach a level where the majority is satisfied.
First and foremost in zone pvp i12 you actually had alot of builds competing thats a misconception. The difference is this new pvp is lame, why heal decay, mez resist, DR, suppression. It's counterproductive to give such good io's but yet make someone with 100k worth of so's perform as good as a fully io'd toon.
No those who were good before are just as good or better now, that's also a misconception, but the pvp leagues which were thriving on test are now dead, alot of our friends quit, and it's no new insurgence of pvp'rs to come into the fold which was supposed to be the intent of all this mess. To be honest we lost way more ppl than we gained, and not even a good crop, it's just a bunch of cannon fodder now.
Support at's that don't support, mez and hold dominate AT's that can't really hold better than anyone eles, Npc's that's more terrifying than any io'd toon you or anyone can make. They don't like the new pvp so they follow the old rules, we are too weak i14 toons fighting i12 npc's haha wtf?.
And really if you want to know the truth, my kill to death ratio is absurd right now i mean i go hours and might get cought near a base and droned once or twice, but killed not so much. But it's not the same, hopefully we get some changes.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
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Dynamic team roles may have been awesome in arena pvp, particularly amongst the test arena scene. But to the average pvpers (like me) or the people who don't pvp, test arena pvp was an elite clique that would take huge ammounts of effort to get anywhere near. The rest of the pvp was the occasional random arena match or zone pvp where most of these 'dynamic team roles' were more often than not badly crippled by the inherent lack or organization in these areas.
Having never been in that elite pvp group I can't say if it was great, but the fact that they mostly left speaks volumes. However, that small elite group was the only part of the player base that could truly appreciate the high end pvp content in the game. The pvp system really was quite flawed when looked at from the context of the more low end pvp, which a larger majority of the pvp community would be in if there actually was a large pvp community, or at least the devs thought so, and I would agree.
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This.
And the 'hardcore' pvpers may be surprised to hear that this is probably the majorty's concensus, and thus, who the devs are listening to.
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And the 'hardcore' pvpers may be surprised to hear that this is probably the majorty's concensus, and thus, who the devs are listening to.
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This statement, combined with the utter lack of attention the devs paid to the people who bothered to work with the system and make it work for them, speak volumes to why we have the giant steaming pile of [censored] we have today.
Yes, let's listen to the lowest common denominator. Screw trying to keep up with Joneses, let's just drag them down to our level!
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Meh, I have 42 50s at least one will be ok in PvP.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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And the 'hardcore' pvpers may be surprised to hear that this is probably the majorty's concensus, and thus, who the devs are listening to.
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This statement, combined with the utter lack of attention the devs paid to the people who bothered to work with the system and make it work for them, speak volumes to why we have the giant steaming pile of [censored] we have today.
Yes, let's listen to the lowest common denominator. Screw trying to keep up with Joneses, let's just drag them down to our level!
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So say i shoot pool in a league on friday nights, the felt on the table is ripped and the owners need to fix it. You following me mac. Good.
Now the people who shoot pool in the leagues want red felt because the green felt hurts their eyes. The people who occasionally play like the green and are opposed to the red because it doesn't remind them of a pool table.
Now even though the league's play on the tables nightly should the owners give them the benefit and do what they ask or request because thats what they want. Nope you know why, the tables generate money all day long.
PVP was broke for the majority who might have WANTED to enjoy all aspects of the game for their money. Its not about what your little rec leagues want on the test server its about what paying customers want. That sir is the most for their money.
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And the 'hardcore' pvpers may be surprised to hear that this is probably the majorty's concensus, and thus, who the devs are listening to.
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This statement, combined with the utter lack of attention the devs paid to the people who bothered to work with the system and make it work for them, speak volumes to why we have the giant steaming pile of [censored] we have today.
Yes, let's listen to the lowest common denominator. Screw trying to keep up with Joneses, let's just drag them down to our level!
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So say i shoot pool in a league on friday nights, the felt on the table is ripped and the owners need to fix it. You following me mac. Good.
Now the people who shoot pool in the leagues want red felt because the green felt hurts their eyes. The people who occasionally play like the green and are opposed to the red because it doesn't remind them of a pool table.
Now even though the league's play on the tables nightly should the owners give them the benefit and do what they ask or request because thats what they want. Nope you know why, the tables generate money all day long.
PVP was broke for the majority who might have WANTED to enjoy all aspects of the game for their money. Its not about what your little rec leagues want on the test server its about what paying customers want. That sir is the most for their money.
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Comparing PvP in an MMO to the color of the felt on a pool table is the first step in getting people to ignore you completely. Good try though. A more apt analogy (that still is relevant to your pool example) would be if the store owners decided to replace the standard pool tables with half-size ones, or with bumper pool tables. The people who got good at playing pool on a regulation table are upset, and rightly so, because now everything that was fun for them got torn away. Meanwhile, the people that never bothered to try hard to get good at playing pool on a full-size table are overjoyed because now they don't have to try and they can look good.
Guess what? I never played on test before I13. Not once. Hell, I only started PvPing in the month or so leading up to I13. Even I know a turd when I see one. You can polish up I13 PvP and praise it all you like - a shiny turd is still a turd.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Excellent analogy bud.
And the issue now is, as the devs gradually work on improving PvP (as they have), to get all those casual players (who were put off by the DRASTICALLY broken PvP) back and give it a 2nd try.
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Excellent analogy bud.
And the issue now is, as the devs gradually work on improving PvP (as they have), to get all those casual players (who were put off by the DRASTICALLY broken PvP) back and give it a 2nd try.
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Making two different rulesets is a great start for getting PvEers into PvP! I think making Flurry and Kick do more damage than primary attack powers makes great thematic sense, too - in fact, that's the best change I've heard of in this game in its five years! I wholeheartedly support this new PvP system.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Comparing PvP in an MMO to the color of the felt on a pool table is the first step in getting people to ignore you completely. Good try though.
Guess what? I never played on test before I13. Not once. Hell, I only started PvPing in the month or so leading up to I13. Even I know a turd when I see one. You can polish up I13 PvP and praise it all you like - a shiny turd is still a turd.
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Not comparing MMO to pool felt. Thats what a High School Diploma will help you figure out.
Comparing the business side of it. Your little ladder matches of max 500 people are no match for the hundreds of thousands that might wanna try it.
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Not comparing MMO to pool felt. Thats what a High School Diploma will help you figure out.
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That's odd. I thought you were using an analogy. Generally the purpose of an analogy is to compare things to one another. Unless, of course, you actually were trying to argue the merits of a certain color of pool felt, in which case I am confused as to why you'd choose this forum for that.
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Comparing the business side of it. Your little ladder matches of max 500 people are no match for the hundreds of thousands that might wanna try it.
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People already tried PvP, under the old rules. Those that chose to stick around and learn how the system worked eventually got good at it. Those that didn't left the zones. No amount of rewards or dumbing-down of the mechanics will bring most of those players back into the zones. Perhaps this "wonderfully successful," "more fun," and "balanced" new PvP is why the zones are more empty than they ever were before the changes.
And "hundreds of thousands?" This game has maybe 120-150k subscribers. That's hardly "hundreds of thousands" of people. Additionally, the September to December 2008 subscription numbers were the lowest this game has recorded since about six months after its launch in 2004. I don't think it's a coincidence there are less people PvPing now than there were before the changes. Where are all the new players these changes were supposed to bring in, hm?
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Guess what? I never played on test before I13. Not once. Hell, I only started PvPing in the month or so leading up to I13. Even I know a turd when I see one. You can polish up I13 PvP and praise it all you like - a shiny turd is still a turd.
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this statemnet right here explains alot. you have no idea what it was like to PvP before the end of i12 therefore you really have no base to assume your position. the only thing i can gather from your posts is you io'd out a toon for i12 and by the time you got it done PvP changed. guess what? deal with it and adapt. make the changes that need to be made to your toons. this is the PvP we have now. enough whinning about pre i13 PvP. if you don't like it don't play it.
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A more apt analogy (that still is relevant to your pool example) would be if the store owners decided to replace the standard pool tables with half-size ones, or with bumper pool tables. The people who got good at playing pool on a regulation table are upset, and rightly so, because now everything that was fun for them got torn away. Meanwhile, the people that never bothered to try hard to get good at playing pool on a full-size table are overjoyed because now they don't have to try and they can look good.
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Actually you have that analogy backwards. (*See my prev post abt where you went wrong) Its more like you got used to playing on the half size tables and are now upset that they took them away for full sized ones. CoX PvP was awful. Period. And certainly not up to standard w/other MMOs (ie standard pool tables).
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Guess what? I never played on test before I13. Not once. Hell, I only started PvPing in the month or so leading up to I13. Even I know a turd when I see one. You can polish up I13 PvP and praise it all you like - a shiny turd is still a turd.
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this statemnet right here explains alot. you have no idea what it was like to PvP before the end of i12 therefore you really have no base to assume your position. the only thing i can gather from your posts is you io'd out a toon for i12 and by the time you got it done PvP changed. guess what? deal with it and adapt. make the changes that need to be made to your toons. this is the PvP we have now. enough whinning about pre i13 PvP. if you don't like it don't play it.
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Incorrect on pretty much every account. Broad generalizations often fail, but thank for playing. PvP a month before I12 wasn't significantly different than PvP two months before that, or a year before that. I PvP'd on my converted PvE characters with few or no IOs (kind of like I still do). I'd been watching matches, both in-game and on Youtube, for significantly longer than that time, learning by watching, so to speak. Yes, there were some frustrating problems with the old system. Not nearly as many as there are now though. How long were you PvPing before I13 hit?
I'm not whining. The people who say "Heat Exhaustion needs to be nerfed" or the people who said "Stalkers are cheap," or "Hibernate is cheating!" are the whiners. If you'll look in the general PvP section you'll find a post from yours truly about exactly where I think certain parts of I13 failed to achieve their goals. If that post , and the points it raises, comes across as whiny to you, I think I can safely disregard your further contribution on the matter.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Post deleted by Moderator 08
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Yes, the MMO with the fastest movement in the industry certainly was like a half-sized pool table compared to the full-sized tables of other games.
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So fast means better right? Or more hardcore? Answer: No. In fact, its a huge source of the original problem.
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People already tried PvP, under the old rules. Those that chose to stick around and learn how the system worked eventually got good at it. Those that didn't left the zones. No amount of rewards or dumbing-down of the mechanics will bring most of those players back into the zones. Perhaps this "wonderfully successful," "more fun," and "balanced" new PvP is why the zones are more empty than they ever were before the changes.
And "hundreds of thousands?" This game has maybe 120-150k subscribers. That's hardly "hundreds of thousands" of people. Additionally, the September to December 2008 subscription numbers were the lowest this game has recorded since about six months after its launch in 2004. I don't think it's a coincidence there are less people PvPing now than there were before the changes. Where are all the new players these changes were supposed to bring in, hm?
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so they should spend money to keep 500 people happy? sounds like that's what you wanted.
Tell me this, in fact tell all of us, How in the world was pvp fun pre i13? what was fun about it? Was it chain mezing the new guys who came to check pvp out? Was it ASing followed by TF or Bone Smasher FTW that made you all giddy? Those are a just a few things that would bring me back to the zone. But hey if ya cant hang with the big dogs get out right, thats what you mean right so you and the 499 other can play pvp on FOTM builds.
I14 is a step in the overhaul of the pvp system. Its not perfect by any means. But are more AT's in RV on freedom at least then the FOTM stalker or perma doms. If you disagree then you haven't played.
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I14 is a step in the overhaul of the pvp system. Its not perfect by any means. But are more AT's in RV on freedom at least then the FOTM stalker or perma doms. If you disagree then you haven't played.
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Yup yup.
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Meh, I have 42 50s at least one will be ok in PvP.
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Almost caught up to me 
lvl 50 - Elec/WP/Mu Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - Dark/EA/Soul Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - EM/Nin/Soul Mastery Stalker
New Toons
lvl 21 - StJ/WP Stalker
Dear Epic, The Reactor, yup yup and the other I13 lovers out there,
Tell me this, in fact tell all of us, how has Suppression, DR, Heal Decay, Mez Resistance, removal of -Max Run Speed and overpowered NPCs helped to make PvP viable and fun for all ATs?
Love,
Optical_Illusion
PS- GL LOL
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Yes, the MMO with the fastest movement in the industry certainly was like a half-sized pool table compared to the full-sized tables of other games.
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So fast means better right? Or more hardcore? Answer: No. In fact, its a huge source of the original problem.
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FAST PVP HURTS MY EYES!!!! ZOMG MY EYES!!!!!!!!!
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Post deleted by Moderator 08
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Dynamic team roles may have been awesome in arena pvp, particularly amongst the test arena scene. But to the average pvpers (like me) or the people who don't pvp, test arena pvp was an elite clique that would take huge ammounts of effort to get anywhere near.
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So why worry about it? If you wanted to get in on a test PvP team, you needed to practice. At any level of PvP, it was never about the build. Of course some builds worked better than others - that's the nature of a dynamic game. Different weapons work better than others in certain situations in an FPS, different classes and powersets are no different in an MMO. If you need to take out that last enemy half a mile across the map to score the winning kill in a tied game, are you going to use a sniper rifle or a pistol?
The biggest barrier to entry for test PvP wasn't build. Anyone can click a few buttons at the character creator to make something with certain powersets. It's how you used those powersets, in conjunction with the rest of your characters' abilities and those of your teammates, that set you apart from the rest.
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The rest of the pvp was the occasional random arena match or zone pvp where most of these 'dynamic team roles' were more often than not badly crippled by the inherent lack or organization in these areas.
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So, what you're saying here is that because players in zones couldn't figure out how to use team chat, they decided to completely redo the PvP system.
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The pvp system really was quite flawed when looked at from the context of the more low end pvp, which a larger majority of the pvp community would be in if there actually was a large pvp community, or at least the devs thought so, and I would agree.
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No, it wasn't. Almost anything could be at least somewhat useful in zone or kickball arena PvP (in your terms, "low-end PvP"). After the changes in I13 the number of builds, powersets that are truly useful has become even smaller. People have pointed out that even the FotM builds have become more limited. For changes that were intended to stamp out FotMs and make everything more viable, they were pretty ill-conceived.
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."