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A good example, though this was awhile ago, was the idea that defeating an AV earned you an SO. The KHTF had 10 AVs so you could get 10 SOs. This was a risk versus reward issue. Then the KHTF was changed so that only defeating 10 AVs got you the SO. I know, single origin enhancements aren't a big deal now but this was before Issue 9 I believe. Tis was a violation of the risk versus reward philosophy as the risk hand not changed, but the reward did.
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Err, yes the reward changed, but that doesn't mean it violated the risk:reward ratio. The devs would argue that it brought it in line with the risk:reward ratio.
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Am I way off base here?
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No not in the fact that MA critters are tougher. The devs said as much when they told us they were using the players damage scale instead of the weaksauce PvE damage scale players with good builds can melt with ease.
I think it is a valid issue and the devs need to seriously look at this imbalance. Of course they will not do this for whatever reason they make up and that is their choice.
I just don't want anyone to come in here saying PvE critters are as tough and therefore the same risk vs reward is being observed, it is not and everyone being honest knows it including the devs.
The only difference is they are too stubborn to be honest about it and will wrap it up in some kind of developer spin about keeping abuse down etc. which is total feldercarb.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
You know, the constant acerbic, insulting spew about the developers is really tiring and dull.
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You know, the constant acerbic, insulting spew about the developers is really tiring and dull.
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Comes with the territory; whenever the devs do something a player doesn't like it is a personal affront.
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You know, the constant acerbic, insulting spew about the developers is really tiring and dull.
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Its almost as tiring as the mindless zombies the would support the Devs regardless of reason, thought, or validity.
The fact of the matter is the Dev's screwed up a lot in this game. They also did many many many things well. The forum brown nosing elite here will only talk about the good things, at the expense of having any meaningful discussion on how to make this a better game.
Don't get my wrong, CoH was groundbreaking game with tons of potential, but the Devs have been unable to capitalize on it. In this modern very comic friendly time we live in now, CoX should be cleaning house. But its not because the devs do not know why it is successful. Hint: it is not because devs made a great game, its because they almost have.
Right now, the game is a boring grindfest filled with mindless repetition that's constantly shoved down our throat as "content". Why don't I quit and leave you intellectually unchallenged and blissfully unaware, you might ask? Because I see the potential this game has, and I want to do whatever I can to help the game reach it.
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A good example, though this was awhile ago, was the idea that defeating an AV earned you an SO. The KHTF had 10 AVs so you could get 10 SOs. This was a risk versus reward issue. Then the KHTF was changed so that only defeating 10 AVs got you the SO. I know, single origin enhancements aren't a big deal now but this was before Issue 9 I believe. Tis was a violation of the risk versus reward philosophy as the risk hand not changed, but the reward did.
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Err, yes the reward changed, but that doesn't mean it violated the risk:reward ratio. The devs would argue that it brought it in line with the risk:reward ratio.
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However, they would be wrong. Or the risk:reward ratio for the rest of the game is out of line.
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
I think the Devs simply intended that our story-arcs involve a healthy mix of canon critters and custom critters so that story-arcs are both interesting, and present acceptable challenge levels across all AT/power-set combinations.
The thing is of course, that this still leaves the opening for people who so wish it, to twist the system and design a mission with crazyu88er critters.
The Devs however, coming from the point-of-view of maintaining their definitions and ratio of Risk vs Reward, are the ones who get to restrict us and determine for us what should be considered a healthy mix of canon critters and custom critters so that story-arcs are both interesting, and present acceptable challenge levels across all AT/power-set combinations.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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You know, the constant acerbic, insulting spew about the developers is really tiring and dull.
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Its almost as tiring as the mindless zombies the would support the Devs regardless of reason, thought, or validity.
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OMG this!
And the funny part is most of those that criticize wouldnt really care if they were called haters, doomsayers or whatnot, because they can admit theyre being picky, and in their opinions rightfully so - but call the others fanbois and theyll argue that, not knowing that theyre always mindlessly defending.
I don't know. It seems reasonable to me that if a custom critter is harder to fight than a similarly rewarded non-custom critter, something is wrong with the risk vs reward ratio. I know I stopped playing MA arcs when I realized I would get more out of the standard missions.
Perhaps the this should approach this mathematically. A straight comparison of critters and their rewards in MA vs regular would be enlightening.
There's a difference between stating you think something is a flaw and ranting about how lying jerk-wad devs have killed the game.
I think custom critters are higher risk, so should be higher reward, generally.
And then, the ease of use of AE should be reflected in lower reward.
Ideally, the set-up of maps should affect rewards. While I'm not sure the current system does so right, I'm also not sure it's possible to do much better without human oversight (IE: an implausibly large staff of arc readers)
I gotta hand it to Positron.
He couldn't have done a better job advertizing for CO if he'd still veeb working there. Hey, have any of you guys noticed Matt Miller's new car? suspicious, ain't it?
I am not one of those people that have been trying to say CO will be better than CoH, far from it, I think CO will be a travesty until they fire Jack Emmert for a game designer that has a clue what people like.
But what with all the crippling blocks on the MA making it essentially a worthless eyesore, the threatening of his playerbase, the bait-and-switch tactics, and the firing of a really good guy trying to keep the public in the loop (lighthouse) Miller sure as hell has made me willing to give DCUO a fair shake.
There are no rewards now in MA missions. Custom created critters NERFED, tickets for mish's NERFED, Hard mish's NERFED because they "could" be used as farms, There are no salvage drops, there are no recipe drops and content continues to be shoved down our throats. Now it's back to grinding for anything you need because there is no way to get it anymore without grinding or farming. Regular mish's are the way to go again. At least you get salvage drops and recipe drops.
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons
Here is the real problem: MA absolute needs to give control of the difficulty to the mission level designer in order to be a successful. MA designers need to have flexibility and control over there missions. Some fights should be hard, others less so, and so on in accordance with their mission design.
However, now that the devs have declared war on farmers, they immediately started taking away control and options away from the MA designers. Custom mobs, once the centerpiece of the MA process will be avoided in many cases because they are supermobs with annoying and game balance breaking abilities.
While screaming the motto of "Risk vs Reward, RISK VS REWARD" they then go on take away the reward and add risk. There is no more reward for AE anymore.
Then the legion of closed-minded individuals come in screaming "YOU SHOULD DO IT BECAUSE ITS FUN", suggesting risk vs reward is not at all a concept that applies to video games, because if its a video game, its fun no matter what! Of course, as soon as you try to shine even the slightest bit of reason at these individuals, they'll throw a tantrum and demand you leave the game, but they really care about the game. They care enough to tell anybody that doesn't think like them, which is obviously the only and correct way to think, to LEAVE THE GAME.
And these are the people that the devs respond to and that is why CoX is and probably always will be a fringe MMO rather then the first class game it could be.
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There are no rewards now in MA missions. Custom created critters NERFED, tickets for mish's NERFED, Hard mish's NERFED because they "could" be used as farms, There are no salvage drops, there are no recipe drops and content continues to be shoved down our throats. Now it's back to grinding for anything you need because there is no way to get it anymore without grinding or farming. Regular mish's are the way to go again. At least you get salvage drops and recipe drops.
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I just got 3.5 million influence in about 25 minutes fighting lieutenants that never had a chance to harm me (they do pure fire against my spines/fire) whilst being aided by Arch-Villains that did little more than follow me around with dispersion bubbles.
They should probably put a hard cap on influence too; then I won't use it at all.
Oh, and the best part? They were all absolutely adorable. They're a custom group of mine called "Pandamen".
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There are no rewards now in MA missions. Custom created critters NERFED, tickets for mish's NERFED, Hard mish's NERFED because they "could" be used as farms, There are no salvage drops, there are no recipe drops and content continues to be shoved down our throats. Now it's back to grinding for anything you need because there is no way to get it anymore without grinding or farming. Regular mish's are the way to go again. At least you get salvage drops and recipe drops.
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I just got 3.5 million influence in about 25 minutes fighting lieutenants that never had a chance to harm me (they do pure fire against my spines/fire) whilst being aided by Arch-Villains that did little more than follow me around with dispersion bubbles.
They should probably put a hard cap on influence too; then I won't use it at all.
Oh, and the best part? They were all absolutely adorable. They're a custom group of mine called "Pandamen".
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How wonderful. Now, Let's see you do it on a rad/rad defender.
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How wonderful. Now, Let's see you do it on a rad/rad defender.
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Can I borrow yours?
I find it interesting that the "Risk vs Reward" has been forwarded as a reason when the Devs abandoned that smoke screen with the introduction of Merits. The game is about TIME vs Rewards, Risk has little to do with anything. The Devs have time-frames which they think the average player should be able to achieve "X", X including levels, IOs, Accolades.
Activity which breaks their accepted time-frame will be acted upon IF it becomes a statistically relevant. For example, if I was the only player capable of running 10 min ITFs, it would not be statistically relevant to the game as a whole. IF I teach 10,000 other players how to do it, it then becomes relevant and the Devs will move to make changes to the game.
And that is why the Devs will not specify their yardstick. Some have argued that this is good because it prevents people from working to being just under the yardstick markings. I can see that reasoning, but it is not the only reason. If the Devs came out and said "We expect you to take 200 hours to reach Level 50", they will have told each player exactly how much it is going to cost in real money as well as playtime.
Anyhow, there is no risk there is only time.
Sir Zane (Lvl 50, Inv/SS/Nrg Tank);Atomic Jake (Lvl 50, Kin/Rad/Elec Defender)
Nikolai (Lvl 50, DM/EA/GW Brute);Raging Stallion (Lvl 50 MA/SR/Weap Scrapper)
Archmage Tristam (Lvl 50 Ill/Son/Psi Controller)
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-g=C800:5
That's correct.
However, I don't think a reasonable person would argue against the fact that since the custom critters are indeed tougher than PvE critters, It does indeed take more time to kill them mob for mob.
This is not because customs have more hit points, but because of the amount of additional damage you take and the adaptive tactics to deal with same.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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A good example, though this was awhile ago, was the idea that defeating an AV earned you an SO. The KHTF had 10 AVs so you could get 10 SOs. This was a risk versus reward issue. Then the KHTF was changed so that only defeating 10 AVs got you the SO. I know, single origin enhancements aren't a big deal now but this was before Issue 9 I believe. Tis was a violation of the risk versus reward philosophy as the risk hand not changed, but the reward did.
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Err, yes the reward changed, but that doesn't mean it violated the risk:reward ratio. The devs would argue that it brought it in line with the risk:reward ratio.
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AV's drop SO's, why don't these AV's drop SO's?
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You know, the constant acerbic, insulting spew about the developers is really tiring and dull.
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If you feel a post is out of line, use the report post button at the bottom of every post. Devs burned their get out of jail cards long ago and have only a skeleton crew of auto-defending fanboys left. 
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Am I way off base here?
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Yes.
That was easy. Next question?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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I am sure the devs would love to have increased rewards for harder customs. Sadly, some putz would then create a mission with just one enemy type, one of the ones with increased rewards, that they can game the system with.
It is a shame. However, the in game rewards are high enough to keep my characters leveling decently and generating enough cash flow to enhance up. The reward of reading stories I haven't seen before makes up for any extra difficulty. If I hit something over the top on difficulty, I can easily just quit, there are thousands of other choices I have for stories.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Do you mean to say StratoNexus that there are several ways to grow a character and some ways will always be more (or less) profitable than others? Do you mean to say that you play MA story-arcs for the work their Authors have put in designing a plot, clues, dialogs, custom critters, and you don't just play for rewards?!
OMG man... what are you?! Some kind of a Logical Vulcan or something?! 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Do you mean to say StratoNexus that there are several ways to grow a character and some ways will always be more (or less) profitable than others? Do you mean to say that you play MA story-arcs for the work their Authors have put in designing a plot, clues, dialogs, custom critters, and you don't just play for rewards?!
OMG man... what are you?! Some kind of a Logical Vulcan or something?!
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This points to the fact that its up to PLAYERS to make sure that their missions can appeal to a wide range of folks.
What I seen repeatedly however is some mission authors build it, then only test it with their most IO'd out uber toon with uber defense.
And then they wonder why they get no plays or 1 stars.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I was trying to take in this whole MA issue since the re-activation weekend and something struck me as odd. Maybe I am totally off. Please let me know.
Positron brought up the old party line of risk versus reward in his follow up to the MA abuse. This gets brought up every now and then to validate a nerf. A good example, though this was awhile ago, was the idea that defeating an AV earned you an SO. The KHTF had 10 AVs so you could get 10 SOs. This was a risk versus reward issue. Then the KHTF was changed so that only defeating 10 AVs got you the SO. I know, single origin enhancements aren't a big deal now but this was before Issue 9 I believe. Tis was a violation of the risk versus reward philosophy as the risk hand not changed, but the reward did.
Over the last 5 years there have been others. I am sure the veteran players can chime in on other examples if they feel like it.
In the MA, the custom critters are amazingly tough. Well, even a standard/standard minion is using a player damage scale. The risk is much greater against custom critters but there is no adjustment to the reward. So the risk versus reward isn't balanced.
Don't get me wrong, I like the challenges that custom critters offer but I haven't heard of anything from the devs about increasing the amount of XP, Influence, tickets, etc. for this increased risk. I believe you can get full debt though. In relation to the risk versus reward of regular in-game mob custom critters pay out less. So a Crey minion who offers 372 XP for a defeat is the same as a custom critter minion who is defeated. I don't think many people would argue that the custom critter minion is a greater risk usually.
Am I way off base here?
Its a shame that a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs. - Jack Handy.
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