[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, I don't think a reasonable person would argue against the fact that since the custom critters are indeed tougher than PvE critters, It does indeed take more time to kill them mob for mob.
This is not because customs have more hit points, but because of the amount of additional damage you take and the adaptive tactics to deal with same.
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember that the original intent was that this was to be the custom *boss* generator. Extending the system to allow you to create custom lieutenants and even minions was a great stretch goal, but it wasn't originally intended to be balanced for this, and still really isn't.
The expected standard is a short series of missions with mostly stock enemies, and a custom boss as the "big finish". If you're *choosing* to play (design) missions that use entirely custom creatures, presumably that's because you feel the non-tangible reward of getting to fight something out of the ordinary is worth the added difficulty. If you don't like the tradeoff, pick different missions: it tells you what enemies are featured in the chooser for a reason.
Mind you, I'd certainly appreciate more control over difficulty as they develop the MA going forward. My Easter-themed mission had entirely custom enemies with color-themed attacks, and it's very hard to create a "green" minion that's not dangerous in quantity for instance. I just hope that the humor value makes the added difficulty worth it for at least some people.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with that is if the person can't get past the first mob without being 2-3 shotted, then the humor is lost right at the star of the missh. They're not going to see the any humor in being owned, not matter what is written in the missh.
Not saying your missh is like that, since I haven't played it, just making a point about it.
My question to some folks would be, can your missh do without the uber hard custom mob to tell a good story?
From what I've been seeing is that most folks could tell the same story without using custom mobs.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I find many posts in this thread to be really surprising.
[ QUOTE ]
Regular mish's are the way to go again. At least you get salvage drops and recipe drops.
[/ QUOTE ]
My experience of the MA is that the tickets are resulting in MUCH better loot than the standard missions. That's true even though I never get near the 1,500 cap that some people apparently find so shocking that they had to go to a local emergency room and spend the night in the Intensive Care ward. I also find it pretty easy to find missions which any of my characters can complete, as long as I am willing to change the difficulty level.
I am not sure how to explain the discrepancy. Are people not using the Bronze Reward Roll to get themselves recipies? Are other people less likely to quit a mission if it's too hard? I really don't know.
Off the top of my head, here is a partial list of all the benefits to MA missions over standard missions.
-You get to know the mission goals before you start playing.
-If you don't like the mission for whatever reason it's a snap to quit and move on to the next one.
-People seem to naturally be using the maps which are easier to navigate. Ive almost forgotten how much I hate those twisty blue tunnels.
-If you want to team there's usually a group of people standing around right in the MA.
-You get enough tickets to buy new enhancements, reward rolls, and salvage pretty easily.
-You can make those purchases right there in the building instead of traveling across the city to find the right vendor.
-There is more variety in powers and costumes since you can use standard or custom critters
-You can play a villain AT and still be a hero, or play a hero AT and be nasty.
Taken together these are pretty substantial, and a reason I won't be leaving the MA building anytime soon. For me the only real draw to go out is specific rewards like the temporary travel powers.
That entire first part is a red herring.
The real issue being discussed in my post is the overpowered ranged attack "added" when the critters were already harder which people enjoyed by the way. In additon to the fact that for this increase in time/risk the reward is the same which nobody in there right mind thinks is somehow equal/fair.
The suggestion of making that ranged attack equal to the other PvE critters ranged attack ala Battle Maidens troops is what would help fix this issue. The increased reward was nothing more than a dream aloud as I stated originally they will not do it for whatever reason they decide.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
The Risk vs. Reward standard is not consistent throughout the game, and I don't think it ever has been. You only need to compare street hunt missions to instanced missions to see that.
That said, I think you have to put custom critters in context. Yah, they can be much more difficult. On the other hand, you're blowing through that MA arc a lot faster than you would anything "outside", because there's no travel time involved. No zoning, no courier filler, and probably no Defeat Alls. Hospital is pretty much right at the mission door.
To be fair, all that's gotta be figured in.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
[ QUOTE ]
That said, I think you have to put custom critters in context. Yah, they can be much more difficult. On the other hand, you're blowing through that MA arc a lot faster than you would anything "outside", because there's no travel time involved. No zoning, no courier filler, and probably no Defeat Alls. Hospital is pretty much right at the mission door.
To be fair, all that's gotta be figured in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but the MA doesn't force you to use custom critters. This is the essential issue: there's no reason to make mission arcs with custom guys if the custom guys are going to wipe the floor with a lot of people thanks to how powerful even just the minions themselves are.
[ QUOTE ]
This is the essential issue: there's no reason to make mission arcs with custom guys if the custom guys are going to wipe the floor with a lot of people thanks to how powerful even just the minions themselves are.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see the gap being quite that wide. I suppose it can be, if an author is intent on "killer GMing", but now you're getting into the area of just straight-up bad design, and the way to deal with that is to not play the arc.
On the other end of the spectrum, I've used custom mobs a lot so far, and I've made some of them pretty weak, deliberately. Granted, that wasn't easy to do, but it's theoretically going to be much easier to pull off in the immediate future, with I15.
In any event, I've never had a custom group that I've designed "mop up the floor" with any team I've been on, even while on higher difficulties. The customs are more challenging, yes, but it hasn't been that great an increase in risk. After all, it's still the same AI. 
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
[ QUOTE ]
In additon to the fact that for this increase in time/risk the reward is the same which nobody in there right mind thinks is somehow equal/fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its true that they added a ranged attack without increasing the reward. However, this was to compensate for the fact it was possible to hover above the critters and blast them with zero risk.
My assessment is that adding a ranged attack made the critters more difficult, but still well within the range of risk/reward offered in the rest of the game. And Ive already given my list of all the things I like better about MA missions.
[ QUOTE ]
This points to the fact that its up to PLAYERS to make sure that their missions can appeal to a wide range of folks.
*
What I seen repeatedly however is some mission authors build it, then only test it with their most IO'd out uber toon with uber defense.
*
And then they wonder why they get no plays or 1 stars.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes... building a good story-arc that presents an interesting story, good combat mechanics that are not too easy to overcome and not too frustrating to fight, is an art form.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In additon to the fact that for this increase in time/risk the reward is the same which nobody in there right mind thinks is somehow equal/fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its true that they added a ranged attack without increasing the reward. However, this was to compensate for the fact it was possible to hover above the critters and blast them with zero risk.
My assessment is that adding a ranged attack made the critters more difficult, but still well within the range of risk/reward offered in the rest of the game. And Ive already given my list of all the things I like better about MA missions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really don't need any rehash of devs spin as to why they added a ranged attack. I have stated more than a few times the ranged attack from the Battle Maidens troops is what the attack should be.
In addition, its not just the overpowered ranged attack that is on the players damage scale its all of the attacks including the "additonal" group of attacks they "added" to standard that is at issue here.
You can think PvE critters damage scale vs players damage scale is within the same time/risk reward spectrum but you would be pretty lonely in that assesment.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean to say StratoNexus that there are several ways to grow a character and some ways will always be more (or less) profitable than others? Do you mean to say that you play MA story-arcs for the work their Authors have put in designing a plot, clues, dialogs, custom critters, and you don't just play for rewards?!
OMG man... what are you?! Some kind of a Logical Vulcan or something?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean to say that your view and reason for playing MA is the only reason to play MA. I am so sick of the mindless rapping about "playing MA for the fun, Playing MA for Content" NO DAHH! MA was fun and some player arc are great, but wearing blinders to other's opinions about how or why THEY play just because it's not how or why you play is getting old. You always cut people opinions and make some comment. Maybe our time to us is worth more to us then yours is to you. Maybe some peeps can't play all that long and want the most bang for their buck. Man your constant ribbing of peeps, keep it to yourself and add something relevant. Showing the different sides of MA is better then constantly cutting people down.
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons
[ QUOTE ]
You can think PvE critters damage scale vs players damage scale is within the same time/risk reward spectrum but you would be pretty lonely in that assesment.
[/ QUOTE ]
You might be right. What do others in this thread think?
I do speculate that the large crowds of people standing around in the MA seem to be evidence in favor of my opinion.
[ QUOTE ]
I am so sick of the mindless rapping about "playing MA for the fun, Playing MA for Content" NO DAHH! MA was fun and some player arc are great, but wearing blinders to other's opinions about how or why THEY play just because it's not how or why you play is getting old.
[/ QUOTE ]
The in-game rewards for running MA content are currently pretty reasonable, in regular mission play. They may be slightly lower than regular missions in some cases, and they may be slightly higher in others. The rewards on well done MA farms are probably still a bit higher than on regular farms, but even if they are not, I doubt it was a design goal for MA to be the best farm spot (although it is probably still a reasonable one, if you want variety and can accept only getting 90% of the rate of a well-honed demon farm).
The only position one could have and complain about the current situation is that they wish to be able to reap rewards at a far higher rate than the rest of the game allows. That is probably not a position that will generate a lot of sympathy.
"I liked MA when it first came out because I could get from level 1-50 in 4 hours, gather tens of thousands of tickets in a few hours, and earn a pile of influence. I do not like it anymore because the rewards are closer to the rest of the game." Good luck with that position.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am so sick of the mindless rapping about "playing MA for the fun, Playing MA for Content" NO DAHH! MA was fun and some player arc are great, but wearing blinders to other's opinions about how or why THEY play just because it's not how or why you play is getting old.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only position one could have and complain about the current situation is that they wish to be able to reap rewards at a far higher rate than the rest of the game allows. That is probably not a position that will generate a lot of sympathy.
"I liked MA when it first came out because I could get from level 1-50 in 4 hours, gather tens of thousands of tickets in a few hours, and earn a pile of influence. I do not like it anymore because the rewards are closer to the rest of the game." Good luck with that position.
[/ QUOTE ]
And that is your opinion of course. The only position??? Please. You don't know half of what you think you do about the reasons some think the rewards aren't worth the risk anymore. Please dont' think you can speak for me or my position. When MA first came out it was exploitable and peeps did take advantage. But changes were made to stop that. I play very hard mish's (harder then anything in the reg game)and want the rewards to reflect my time and efforts. Many toons would die in the first mob in my mish's, not all but many. To say my rewards should be cut off halfway through a very hard mish is ridiculous to me. And for Individuals such as yourself to say my only position is such and such is your own opinion, it just isn't the right one. And I"m not the ones out there taking my toons from 1-50 in four hours either nor am I charging people to pl them so don't put me in that category please. I speak only from a challenging stand point from the mish's created to challenge my and other's toons. Why must you jump on us for asking for higher rewards for those higher challenging mish's we create?
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons
[ QUOTE ]
I play very hard mish's (harder then anything in the reg game)and want the rewards to reflect my time and efforts.
[/ QUOTE ]
This has not been changed, as a matter of fact many have complained because recent changes made many spawns harder.
[ QUOTE ]
To say my rewards should be cut off halfway through a very hard mish is ridiculous to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I happen to agree. I enjoy the occasional large outdoor map of beating on stuff and would prefer not to spend half the time getting no in game rewards. That being said, since it was apparently being abused, I also can handle the new system. I am not sure what it solves, but I can handle it. The size of your mission, has nothing to do with the difficulty of it, so try not to confuse the two.
[ QUOTE ]
I speak only from a challenging stand point from the mish's created to challenge my and other's toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe you are lying. Challenging missions / mobs have not lost any XP. Long missions have. Challenging missions / mobs are still available and can still be played in a fashion that reaps decent rewards for time spent. You just can't make specific all boss spawns that are cake to take out like you once could. But that isn't a challenge really, is it?
[ QUOTE ]
Why must you jump on us for asking for higher rewards for those higher challenging mish's we create?
[/ QUOTE ]
I jumped on no one for asking for challenge. I would like it if more challenging missions and mobs had higher rewards and commented that the devs probably would like it as well. However, I understand that putzes ruin that, and move on. You fail to grasp that and stay rooted in place. I think you are making a bad choice and encourage you to alter your viewpoint.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
[ QUOTE ]
The Risk vs. Reward standard is not consistent throughout the game, and I don't think it ever has been. You only need to compare street hunt missions to instanced missions to see that.
That said, I think you have to put custom critters in context. Yah, they can be much more difficult. On the other hand, you're blowing through that MA arc a lot faster than you would anything "outside", because there's no travel time involved. No zoning, no courier filler, and probably no Defeat Alls. Hospital is pretty much right at the mission door.
To be fair, all that's gotta be figured in.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, at the RISK of being REWARDED with the title of dev-lover, brownnoser, or fanboi , the most recent description is "the risk and/or time to reward ratio". Whether it's because they've refined their phrasing, or we just never heard the full phrase before, I don't know.
As you mention, the "Reward Ratio" cannot be a fixed, global value. Not only do different missions give different levels of Reward, the same mission run by different people will give a different Reward Ratio. Whatever the value is, it must actually be a range, varying with the size and makeup of the team (including a team of 1), the builds of the characters on the team, and the players behind the team. Heck, even the same mission run by the same player with the same character won't produce the exact same Reward Ratio each time.
But there must also be a maximum level of Reward for the Time and/or Risk that the devs consider acceptable. Otherwise they'd never "nerf" anything. And there must be a minimum, since they have, in the past, "buffed" certain missions. (No, I don't have specific examples, I am repeating hearsay. Take it as you will. )
Custom Critters can be made much tougher than regular mobs. Which reduces their Reward Ratio. The question is if it pushes the Ratio low enough that we'll see a response. And whether they even consider the Reward Ratio on a critter-by-critter basis, or only consider the overall Reward Ratio of an entire mission.
[ QUOTE ]
Showing the different sides of MA is better then constantly cutting people down.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're the one who constantly keeps trying to "show people the reward-oriented side of MA", well, let me tell you that the reward-oriented side of MA was already made fun of with that vidoe of Captain Awesome with his awesome button.
I'm not saying don't make or don't play MA story-arcs for the difficulty factor. I am saying, don't be surprised when the Devs get to tell you what their definitions of those factors are!
As a leader of an All-Kheldian SG, I know a bit about difficult missions and challenges. We definitely are not going into an All-Kheldian team to maximize profit and harvest Risk-vs-Rewards factors. I also don't think any of the SG-mates that team with me would have a fit because NPC's give less rewards per more risk.
EDIT :: By the way, looking at the character list in your signature leads me to believe that you usually choose AT's/builds that are quite survivable and do very good DPS, no wonder things don't seem challenging enough for you. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play very hard mish's (harder then anything in the reg game)and want the rewards to reflect my time and efforts.
[/ QUOTE ]
This has not been changed, as a matter of fact many have complained because recent changes made many spawns harder.
[ QUOTE ]
To say my rewards should be cut off halfway through a very hard mish is ridiculous to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I happen to agree. I enjoy the occasional large outdoor map of beating on stuff and would prefer not to spend half the time getting no in game rewards. That being said, since it was apparently being abused, I also can handle the new system. I am not sure what it solves, but I can handle it. The size of your mission, has nothing to do with the difficulty of it, so try not to confuse the two.
[ QUOTE ]
I speak only from a challenging stand point from the mish's created to challenge my and other's toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe you are lying. Challenging missions / mobs have not lost any XP. Long missions have. Challenging missions / mobs are still available and can still be played in a fashion that reaps decent rewards for time spent. You just can't make specific all boss spawns that are cake to take out like you once could. But that isn't a challenge really, is it
[ QUOTE ]
Why must you jump on us for asking for higher rewards for those higher challenging mish's we create?
[/ QUOTE ]
I jumped on no one for asking for challenge. I would like it if more challenging missions and mobs had higher rewards and commented that the devs probably would like it as well. However, I understand that putzes ruin that, and move on. You fail to grasp that and stay rooted in place. I think you are making a bad choice and encourage you to alter your viewpoint.
[/ QUOTE ]
1st - What?? You make no sense in your response to my quote. Ticket Rewards for playing the same mish's I did before as a comparison have changed sir, they got smaller.
2nd - I was not talking about the "size" of the mish map. The survivability of a person's toons dictates the mish's they like and can handle. Currently hard mish's may "ticket out" before it's even done regardless of the size of the map.
3rd - Calling me a liar?? I believe you are brain dead. Again, who is talking about xp?? I'm talking about ticket rewards. And Again those mish's I used to do HAVE lost a ton of tickets as rewards and in my opinion you do not reap decent rewards for your time spent on them. None of the mish's I like have All boss mobs. They have boss, LT's and minions like a normal mish should.
and last, I don't fail to grasp anything sir and I know things had to change as they did because of the putzes. I'm saying that the ticket nerf went to far, that is all. It cut to deep. Only the ticket nerf went to far and cut to deep.
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Showing the different sides of MA is better then constantly cutting people down.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're the one who constantly keeps trying to "show people the reward-oriented side of MA", well, let me tell you that the reward-oriented side of MA was already made fun of with that vidoe of Captain Awesome with his awesome button.
I'm not saying don't make or don't play MA story-arcs for the difficulty factor. I am saying, don't be surprised when the Devs get to tell you what their definitions of those factors are!
As a leader of an All-Kheldian SG, I know a bit about difficult missions and challenges. We definitely are not going into an All-Kheldian team to maximize profit and harvest Risk-vs-Rewards factors. I also don't think any of the SG-mates that team with me would have a fit because NPC's give less rewards per more risk.
EDIT :: By the way, looking at the character list in your signature leads me to believe that you usually choose AT's/builds that are quite survivable and do very good DPS, no wonder things don't seem challenging enough for you. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
I do have some brutes and more toons that are not on my sig so that is in part why I like harder mish's yes. Just because I do have some brutes shouldn't mean that I can't make and get rewards from harder mish's should it? I mean I should be able to make brute mish's right? : D Isn't that in the spirit of MA to be able to do so? I only think the ticket nerf went a little bit to far is all, regardless of what type of toon you have.
But ok I will let the matter rest and move on sir. : D
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons
Q/R
The whole problem with the system right now is it was plainly put to live about 3 to 4 months too soon for it to be a much better workable tool. quite honestly this should still be in dev only testing.
There is no reason they could not have given us clones of existing critters we could mix and match from the critter power scale and base.
If they took the time to create class boss generic versions of critters there would be no problems. they could also force us to stick to existing enemy ratios and not allow all minion,lt, or boss spawns. Stuff like this should be hard coded into this feature,
We wanted it now!!!!! and we got it now. full of holes and bugs that have been exploited and worked around.
The added ranged attacks to melee only custom critters are not the problem. Just as darth said in his posts it's the fact that the critters are like pvp under pre issue 13 rules. When you are fighting a group of 3 minion level custom critters it is almost like being attacked by 3 player controlled toons.
Not to mention that on large teams yout team of 8 is being pounded on by the best cordinated arena pvp spike that could ever be cordinated. Alpha strikes cripple a character quicker than anything you have ever faced in normal game play short of av's
for this to be fixed it will take alot of time and dev effort. Which it is not going to get because they have spread their resources so thin working on the next two big ticket items that will also be full of holes and exploits that cause all kinds of problems when they are released.
[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that the "Risk vs Reward" has been forwarded as a reason when the Devs abandoned that smoke screen with the introduction of Merits. The game is about TIME vs Rewards, Risk has little to do with anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is absolutely true - it is about reward-time ratios. Risk is a totally subjective concept that you can pretty much guarantee devs are not trying to codify - it is a red herring in all of these discussions, as well.
[ QUOTE ]
Activity which breaks their accepted time-frame will be acted upon IF it becomes a statistically relevant. For example, if I was the only player capable of running 10 min ITFs, it would not be statistically relevant to the game as a whole. IF I teach 10,000 other players how to do it, it then becomes relevant and the Devs will move to make changes to the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is very likely what they do, assuming they have at least 80 IQ points between them (we're arguing this in another thread). It's also not a bad way to do it given their goals, which are probably not far off from what you later suggested.
A good deal of it has to do with how much griping is happning from players, too. If you had 200 people doing heavy and "abusive" farming, they still wouldn't care if nobody was raising hell over the topic... but few things remain a secret for long, espcially if any of those 200 people see potential personal benefits by trading what they have or can do, with someone outside the 200 for some form of gain, etc etc..
[ QUOTE ]
they could also force us to stick to existing enemy ratios and not allow all minion,lt, or boss spawns.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be pretty ticked if they did that without increasing the allowable file size. Such a measure would break a lot of finished arcs. Every custom mob takes up a good chunk of space. Forcing people to add additional mobs they don't want nor need would probably be a bad move. Especially given that the ability to make them is probably the single-most popular feature of the MA system.
[ QUOTE ]
We wanted it now!!!!! and we got it now. full of holes and bugs that have been exploited and worked around.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yah, I'm not going along with blaming the player base for this one. Everyone I know would've rather they worked out more bugs before releasing it. But... the devs put it on a deadline and tied marketing to it, and so then it had to go out by X date no matter what. Nobody twisted their arms, and it's all too typical a pattern for video games (and a lot of other things).
[ QUOTE ]
When you are fighting a group of 3 minion level custom critters it is almost like being attacked by 3 player controlled toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is flat-out hyperbole. While generally more difficult than standard mobs, custom mobs are not even remotely in the same league with player-controlled opponents. The AI sees to that. Custom mobs are just as predictable as standard mobs, just as easily manipulated, and just as dopey.
[ QUOTE ]
for this to be fixed it will take alot of time and dev effort.
[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of this particular issue will be addressed by allowing authors to remove individual powers from custom mobs. That's supposed to be coming in I15.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
[ QUOTE ]
Again, who is talking about xp?? I'm talking about ticket rewards. And Again those mish's I used to do HAVE lost a ton of tickets as rewards and in my opinion you do not reap decent rewards for your time spent on them. None of the mish's I like have All boss mobs. They have boss, LT's and minions like a normal mish should.
[/ QUOTE ]
My apologies, I inserted XP as a generic term for rewards in general. What is your arc number. I would love to run your challenging mission(s). Circling the Storm Palace is fun, but variety is great.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
[ QUOTE ]
When you are fighting a group of 3 minion level custom critters it is almost like being attacked by 3 player controlled toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, no it's not, I took my 42 blaster into a mission, set on heroic, full SO's and a three IO sets, faced two white cons and a yellow con.
Hit with shuriken twice, and then hit with throwing knives.
I was rewarded with over 900 damage from the first two, and then another 300 and DoT from the third, I faceplanted.
This is not hyperbole, it's been said by many a squishy player that does not have fully IO'd out characters, the range attacks they add are overboard.
Another factor is that the same enemies at 50, also do comparable damage at 40, 30, 20, and 10, meaning for a player of those levels it's very real they are going to die.
The melee attacks on a player damage index with npc scaling is a combination that is too powerful mathematically, it needs to be redone, quickly.
[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you are fighting a group of 3 minion level custom critters it is almost like being attacked by 3 player controlled toons.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is flat-out hyperbole. While generally more difficult than standard mobs, custom mobs are not even remotely in the same league with player-controlled opponents. The AI sees to that. Custom mobs are just as predictable as standard mobs, just as easily manipulated, and just as dopey.
[/ QUOTE ]
my statement you quoted above is not hyperbole. an even con minion is exactly like facing an unslotted player controlled toon when it comes to an alpha strike. the dopey ai may be easily manipulated but hen you add in the skills of the average non powergaming player. And the fact that the critter alpha shot has a much faster reaction time than any player controlled team could ever hope and dream of it is exactly like a well organized spike.
Since the custom critters are using the exact damage scales we players use then it is not an exaggeration it is a fact that if a level 20 blaster faces a group of 3 even level minions he is facing the unslotted damage potential of 3 player created toons. Of which have hard written into their ai to respond to first contact with a barrage or throwing knives simultaneously.
Therefore my statement of
[ QUOTE ]
When you are fighting a group of 3 minion level custom critters it is almost like being attacked by 3 player controlled toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
When taken in the context of my original thought of a squishy toon absorbing an alpha strike from 3 even con minions is ALMOST like facing 3 player controlled toons is not hyperbole.
If you create custom critter clones of praetorian demons fire blast/fire melee and you attack a spawn set for 8 with a spines/fire scrapper they hit like a truck in comparison to the normal critter demons. Why you say? because they now have smashing and lethal damage in their alpha shot which is what most squishy toons are the most vunerable to.
sure the stone tank that run mision architect customs won't have to worry but a troller who isin't optimally built or pre so's gets owned quickly if their aoe control powers miss.
[ QUOTE ]
However, I don't think a reasonable person would argue against the fact that since the custom critters are indeed tougher than PvE critters, It does indeed take more time to kill them mob for mob.
This is not because customs have more hit points, but because of the amount of additional damage you take and the adaptive tactics to deal with same.
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember that the original intent was that this was to be the custom *boss* generator. Extending the system to allow you to create custom lieutenants and even minions was a great stretch goal, but it wasn't originally intended to be balanced for this, and still really isn't.
The expected standard is a short series of missions with mostly stock enemies, and a custom boss as the "big finish". If you're *choosing* to play (design) missions that use entirely custom creatures, presumably that's because you feel the non-tangible reward of getting to fight something out of the ordinary is worth the added difficulty. If you don't like the tradeoff, pick different missions: it tells you what enemies are featured in the chooser for a reason.
Mind you, I'd certainly appreciate more control over difficulty as they develop the MA going forward. My Easter-themed mission had entirely custom enemies with color-themed attacks, and it's very hard to create a "green" minion that's not dangerous in quantity for instance. I just hope that the humor value makes the added difficulty worth it for at least some people.
Miuramir, Windchime, Sariel the Golden, Scarlet Antinomist...
Casino Extortion #4031: Neutral, Council+Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/CFMA]
Bad Candy #87938: Neutral, Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/HFMA]
CoH Helper * HijackThis