Live Feedback: Issue 14: City of Heroes (Blueside)
By
Alpha_A,
Posted on: 2009-04-16 14:34 in Developers' Corner
I love the MA, totally love it ... despite the notable lack of Shard glowies, Shard maps, Shard AVs, etc. I'm hoping those omissions will be addressed over time. Back in the day, I was the author of a popular mod version of a well-known RTS game; the fun of it was being able to create a custom experience within the framework of the game, without having to write all the tedious bits (rendering, data management, load balancing, etc) ourselves. MA is the same kind of thing. Objectively, it's great work.
My major disappointment is the whole "Developer's Choice" concept. You've simultaneously and voluntarily created for yourselves an unmanageable problem (finding the good deserving stuff in +100,000 arcs) and an all-new "Bug Hunter" situation. Slightly worse actually, since Bug Hunter conferred no additional benefits beyond notoriety. DC confers additional badges, and bazillions of tickets (which translates to rare salvage bits, good rare recipe rolls, etc).
Almost the entire first page of default results is still filled with the same dozen-or-so DC arcs that were anointed on Day One, still soaking up clicks, still condemning other arcs to relative obscurity. Hall of Fame and DC were supposed to be independent, but good luck getting HoF without the DC gateway. I've seen the badgers on my server's main global channel urging each other to push a particular DC arc to HoF status so they could start getting their badges for running HoF arcs. It had nothing to do with any merit the arc possessed.
I had expected that DC membership would rotate, or something ... that maybe every few days we'd see a couple of different arcs pop up with DC, that you'd have folks spending a little time actively sifting through some of the 5* stuff and 4* stuff looking for deserving work, but things don't seem to be changing on page one. Meanwhile, the difference between 5* and 4* is the difference between actually getting some clicks outside your circle of SG friends, and near-total obscurity.
Finally, I'm not fond of what AE has done to the prices of common and uncommon bits that can't be purchased with tickets.
So, I love the technical experience; subjectively, I find the game as a whole carries somewhat more frustration for me than it did before ... a slightly higher number of irritants. With tens of thousands of us creating content, it's inevitable that a ton of quality work will never gain any significant play, but it's still unfortunate.
-FCM
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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PLover, actually, all prices have dropped significantly on Wentworth's, because of most recipes being sold at rock bottom prices for people to empty out their inventory and try their hand at another two dozen recipe rolls.
The prices are down on -everything- purchasable with tickets... and frankly, you can run a few arcs in the mission architect, story only, not even optimized farms, and be able to afford DOs, SOs, or random recipe rolls, for very cheap amounts of tickets. Don't have the 2 million in influence it'll take you to get the rare salvages for a recipe or two? team once or twice in the MA and buy them for a little over a thousand tickets.
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Thank you for the advice, but I respectfully disagree. The price on certain recipies might be down, I honestly have failed to find an example but I'm sure you are speaking from experience, but a lot of even common salvage has gone up a tremendous amount. Your suggested solution is not very appealing: Once or twice in the MA team earning a thousand tickets? Really? So it's basically adapt and farm, or bust? I really don't want to go into the MA teams right now. Been there, kinda crowded and fast-food in there. If that's your thing, go right ahead. Have fun, get as many levels as you want. But no one is buying basic salvage with tickets. Instead they're buying them with massive amounts of influence in order to fill those recipies that are suddenly so quickly obtained. It's a real problem. Yes I can suddenly sell drops for more, but it's not making up the difference, it just isn't.
My point is that the infl awards could have been toned down and the ticket economy better supported so that the MA folks can do their thing without affecting the entire rest of the game. Just waiting for the situation to improve. It's only been a few weeks. Here's hoping that it does.
I wondered how long it would take before the charging power levelers would start whining about AE ruining the game. Not long it seems.
People stopped getting salvage for a while because the cooler recipes suddenly became easier to get, causing the prices on salvage to skyrocket since the availability dropped temporarily. This has been changing over the last couple of days, with rare salvage being cheaper than ever and common salvage is beginning to stabilize. At the same time, most of the more expensive common salvage will drop to a lower price than it was before MA.
The architect will, in the long run, stabilize the market and cause prices to be lower and more accessible to the casual player.
Oh, and speaking of "charging power levelers", notice the new spam e-mails? Web sites spamming in-game e-mails for power-leveling services provided through AE.
I'm sure they're not complaining about the MA and the effect it's had on their business.
And one more thing: charging for PL'ing is not reserved to PI now. I've seen spams in broadcast in Talos and Atlas for lowbies willing to pay for AE farms and "runners" willing to charge for them.
So before you blindly accuse people who hate the MA as being only those who "charge for power leveling", you'd better get your facts straight. The MA hasn't stopped farming: it's only made it insanely lucrative for anyone who wants to engage in it.
The devs have created a Hydra with this one: lop off one head and 2 grow back to replace it. Good luck with trying to stomp out farming in AE: you've only created a virtual "drug war" that will only end when you either throw up your hands and "legalize" it, or pull the MA out of the game altogether. Either way, you've created a real mess with this one; a mess that threatens the very viability of the game itself.
Hope you all have current resumes.
For the most part I am enjoying I14, but probably because I am still enjoying old content I havent gotten too without some people slowing down the markets so slow that I cant walk passed them without lag delays that I used to experience with each new release.
Anyway, Who cares about all the PLing? Its been going on since Issue 4.
Who cares about the economy? You dont need any of that enhancement stuff anyway.
I appreciate the enhancements but really are you crying that your Level-5 cant get a complete set of Uber-Tech-Gyro-Do-Hickeys?
Furthermore, I have yet to see the game be challenging for any Tanker with a half way decent build that sticks to the script. Turn on your defenses and mash away. You dont need a 5-set enhancement special for that, really you dont.
So I could careless whether someone else is PLing. They dont need me or MA to do that. I just worry about my own fun-quotient.
Personally, I enjoy taking my time going through missions. Mostly solo or in small group with friends. I find most PUGs just rush through missions and you miss the content anyway so all those complaints are laughable.
Heck I still dont have a Lvl 50 and I have been playing since Beta. I still enjoy moving slowly through the old Content. (Probably toooo many Alts).
Anyway my recommendation for the next release is SG Missions
Basically a series of missions that can only be accessed by an SG.
Furthermore a subset of the missions are ran in parallel. Basically the SG breaks up into small teams and each member can only run 1 or 2 of the missions.
Then once all the mini-missions are checked off then the next level of content opens up so the whole SG can team-up to take it on.
Kind of like the old Superfriends Cartoon where
Superman saves a train
Aquaman saves a ship
Batman foils a robbery
and Wonder Woman saves some people from a burning building
Then they all team up to stop the master villain and foil his plot as a team.
Well I am not sure if this is going to be moved to a new section or not, and wasnt sure where to put it in the first place. MA is a wondeful thing, it really allows the creative stories of players to come out. Thou I would like to actually like to see some new map sets, that have never been seen before. Like a household, and apartment complex set. A hotel set, in which you could convert the office set over to, where you have doors to rooms, but also have an indoor swimming pool, a kitchen, a ballroom as such. Some other maps would be nice to have would be stuctures that we use , such a s a wentworths, the city hall, or the universty. Imgaine the stories you could have in these places. And one other request, you alloed the critters from winter event, and newyears, how about the map..A snow covered map, so we could do so many artic stories. Thank you for MA, and allowing us to bring our stories out to the rest of the players.
Hmmmmm, feedback huh well let me start by saying I have been playing COH for 4 yrs and had probably 100 characters over that time some didn't last long some have been with me since the beginning. I have a number of 50s don't remember exactly how many 8 or 9 sumpin like that. Thats not especially important to me nor is it a goal forme. I understand it is for some people and I guess there is room for that without it megatively affecting my play or others. But I14 , while it has some very laudable virtues also has as many pitfalls. It is a great concept but the number of problems , new problems, indicates to me a lack of forethought on the part of the developers. A number of people have noted the deliterious affect on the in game economics and I agree that the price of salvage has skyrocketed to the point that if you don't jump on the "farm" bandwagon you are essentially excluded from the IO market because you cannot afford it doing regular mission and TF play. It impacts the use of the market and creation of IOs, creates deadzones in the game, reduces the availability of players for teams in other than AE arcs. It does not appear the developers anticipated these problems or if they did, took no steps to mitigate them. In addition , the problems created when the developers messed around with the SG system are extremely aggravating and they still have no fix. The system worked and needed no changes yet the devs could not leave well enough alone and had to create a Super Leader (which was not needed and accomplishes nothing) and muck around with the "permissions" concept to solve a non-existent problem. Then of course we get new emotes and costumes but you have to pay for them ( for newbies, we used to get more costume options and emotes for free on this game) and of course you can now buy your influence rather than earn it by game play. I met a lvl 7 controller who had 450 million infl and wanted my 50 to farm him to lvl 50 in trade for 200 million. Sorry I have no desire to support that kind of stuff. I have no doubt that he ( or she) will get his/her wish just not from me. No ego gratification, happiness, status or respect comes from buying your way to lvl 50 and no fun either. If all you want to do is get to lvl 50 I suggest that NC Soft create a separate way for people to spend their money and buy a level 50 character when they purchase the game but keep them separate from the people who actually want to play the game and enjoy playing the game. But as we know money doesn't talk , it screams - NCSoft is after all in it for the money - I applaud the players who are creating enjoyable arcs and missions that are intrinsically rrewarding and that you would play even if there was no in game reward. We seem to have lost sight of the concept that the game is the reward. We PLAY the game and PLAY is it's own reward. I sympathize and am quite close to joining those who have said in this thread that , hey it was a good game had a good run before it got mucked and went down the same road as WoW and which seems to be the same result for all MMOGs. It tried to be a bit different and succeeded for a while and I am happy I was there for the good times when 50s used to help newbies and you could search out a 50 in AP and ask questions and get civil answers , when 50s would give people influence because the liked their costume or their backstory or abunch of level 3-5 characters in the sewers would suddenly get healed by a lvl 50 defender who would appear escort them for a bit and then leave to go help someone else. Some of us still do some of those things but those days appear to be on their way out to be replaced by PLing and AE farms in addition to the PI farming. This has become too long but in answer to your request for feedback I have to say it was a nice, creative try but the implementation lacked in forethought and what the potential consequences might be. AE is a grand idea but created anarchy, which created a series of other problems which have been enumerated here and in other posts. BTW the categorizing of feedback as objective or subjective is really as disservice for in the final analysis the only thing that counts is the subjective experience, if we like it we continue to play if we don't we stop and go elsewhere. Whether I can continue to tolerate the negatives created by I14 will depend on whether it is outweighed by the positives but right now it isn't looking real promising. If you fix some of the issues (and they are fixable) I will probably stay but you have a good game that you are not protecting enough.
Dancingbear
At certain times the forest serenades the stars and draws them nearer but they won't mind if we dance.
Egad!!!! Wall of Text!!! Eye's Bleeding!!!
Dragon-King First level 50 -- Fire/Nrg Blaster
(and to many alts to mention)
Protector
Quote:
| Originally by Arcanaville: Everything in Praetoria was designed during a drinking binge in which the devs temporarily forgot the rules. |
[ QUOTE ]
I14, The Good, The Bad, And The UGLY
Good ^_^:
* With the new story Arc system, COH stands out boldly from other MMOs, it is truly a wonderful thing that players now can create there own missions and there own stories
* With i14 i can now sell my salvage and recipes for a lot more, making me just a bit more money then i already have.
* With i14 i wont need two accounts, always good to save money
Bad o.o...mew
* Outside of any area without a AE building, the game isn't a MMO, well maybe the O part but not the MM.
* Finding a normal team or a TF is like finding a purple recipe drop
* CoH has a really good storyline and offers very "awesome" missions, but who cares when there's one more free spot on AE farm....
* There are a lot of dead zones now, its like entering a MMO made "twilight zone" when everyone's dead but you. Only thing its missing is some guy smoking a cigarette and a flying door in otter space.
* With i14 the game isn't fun anymore (in my opinion) and i don't see a reason to continue to pay for something that isn't enjoyable.
The UGLY >:3 RAWR!
* Explaining to a 50 how to get to PI
* Most 50s don't know there own build.
* Most 50s don't know there's a world outside the AE building.
* If this continues most likely users will leave CoH by the masses the moment another big MMO comes out.
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I agree with every one of these points. It's increasingly difficult to find a decent team, even in AE for a farm. No one knows how to play the toons they're leveling. People are running 8-man lvl 54 boss farm missions with a team full of toons under level 10, and then they wonder why they keep dying.
I like to play blasters, in fact, I love to play blasters. My toons don't stray too far from the blaster AT, so I never run into much of a problem when trying out a new build. But at the same time, it's hard for someone like me who primarily plays one AT to deal with the moron-athon of people who don't know how to play their toon. I like to play and level and team with other ATs to make leveling more efficient. I hate that I can't find a team outside of an AE farm. I'm tired of the farming.
Above and beyond any of these things though, the worst part of I14 is the fact that I get disconnected every 10-15 minutes because the server (Freedom) is so lagged up. If there's any one thing that will keep me from renewing my subscrip in June, that'll be it. I'd love to be able to move all my toons to a less populous server that has less lag and less d/c, but I refuse to pay for it.
I'm Loving i14.
Being able to write arcs is a dream come true, and while yes, farm spam is bad on a couple servers, the majority it isnt, not to mention half the people mad about farms are just the usual whiners who pug by screaming in broadcast for teams rather than just forming their own. Not to mention market prices are way more accessible. Great work devs.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
It seems that is all CoH is now... City of Farming. I am really sick and tired of it. I havent played in a week.
I am tired of asking for more Base items and being ignored so I can watch more crap being added to the game. I dont like farming but since you obviously like to cultivate that kind of thing, I will hope that Champions will be bettter.
Its a Shame, I am a 59 month Vet but the game has steadily been losing its appeal.
For what it's worth, I'm glad the devs provided this means of feedback that not only allows for civil discourse, but civil disagreement on the impact the MA is having on the game.
Having participated in other threads where people have raised these issues, it's refreshing to be able to espouse a contrarian view about I14 and not be insulted or shouted down by people who would support the devs in whatever they made (even if it sucked!)
As I see it, there are 2 ways you (the devs) can go: put time and resources into fixing all the problems the MA has introduced while it's live, or take it back to test, fix them there, and bring it back at some point in the future when you've got a product that addresses the issues raised. I think it would be a mistake to keep applying live fixes that trickle out, or to put countless man-hours into stomping out farms as you find them, when it may be more productive and less painful in the long-run simply to take it back to test and fix it there.
I, for one, would respect you doing the latter, and would definitely re-up both my subs if I felt the game was going to be made stronger in the long-run for it.
But that's just my opinion. Take it for what you paid for it.
I've come back to request: Since I just found out I can only have THREE arcs posted at a time (I have 5 of them, 2 on hold). I'd like the ablity to UNPUBLISH and REPUBLISH while KEEPING MY RATINGS! The thought of having to lose those hard earned rating brings a panic attack (ok, i'm over exaggerating.. i'ts called dramatic flair).
Oh, and yes, I'll say again. Farms are going to kill this game. Withen 5 minutes, yesterday, EVERY CHAT CHANNEL I'M ON, had "farm starting!" "any farms forming?" "Blaster looking for farm!" aaaaaugh! Good Bye, yellow brick road! (again, I dont know how that phrase fits into this.. but, dramatic flair!)
My only complaint with I14 is that it's hard to find the good arcs amidst the flood of bad ones. The rating system and search function simply aren't up to the task.
Other than that, I am absolutely thrilled, and having a blast.
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I'd like the ablity to UNPUBLISH and REPUBLISH while KEEPING MY RATINGS!
[/ QUOTE ]Honestly, I prefer it this way, for a number of reasons, including being able to dump a 1-star bandit that found my arc before anyone else, letting me reset from a bad rating, as well as preventing people from doing exactly what you propose to do: get around the 3-arc limit. It also provides a disincentive to unpublish/republish: If the arc is never unpublished, it's easier to find (the id number doesn't change), and my "I've played this arc / I've rated this arc" flag remains intact.
That said, I'd love to be able to purchase new arc slots, and I'm sure many others would as well. Achieving Hall of Fame is unrealistic for most of the playerbase, as is Dev's Choice. But many players who will never get those extra slots still have more than 3 stories they'd like to write and share.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
<ul type="square">[*]I believe the farming will drop off in par with whatever numbers the devs have projected. WE as well as THEY had to know this was going to be an issue at launch. The shiney will drop off soon enough.
[*]If they institute a penalty for playing AE missions that might ward off the players that are farming. However, I see no issue right now aside from the lag waves that are bottlenecking near the areas with AE buildings. IF this trend continues you may have network issues and systematic crashes. IF, that is IF, the problem increases exponetially. [*]I would like to be able to purchase more publishing slots as well, the only people that are getting dev picks are friends and family and those with networking. Granted I can see a dev saying those are the only people that make decent missions, but still :P I wouldn't mind the publishing slots being given as vet rewards perhaps every two years?[*] HoF is a issue. You may need to revamp your entire rating system. I watched one GET hoF and then watched as it dropped within, minutes, by people attacking it with one stars. This can't be the system you envisioned. Though I can see that the longer they fight the longer they stay in the game.[*]You may need to ip your support team. The missions flagged for farming when the word farming and badges are in the text should be gone, not still up. They also republish. Possible increase in support staff may help sift out the farming issues. If you restrict thoe banned for CONFIRMED, (by confirmed I mean you've investigated, not simply taken a players word for it) farm missions should lose all access to the AE for x amount of time.[*]Increase or implement a dev a week or day to play missions in search of a dev pick. Don't make it "Find one!" make it a incentive at the office. No one likes to be forced to do anything :P[*]Increasing the ticket cap may be worth investigating.[*]Adding a new search flag for [u]Looking for AE team[u] may be worth looking into as well. Too many people I know, myself included, are getting spammed by tells and our ignore list is overflowing with Spam globals as it is :P[/list]
Thats my feedback for now! 
Regards,
-C.A.
I'd like to be able to unpublish and retain ratings simply so I can do a lot of revamp/testing without worrying about constantly republishing (and some of the problems that can arise from that).
I can agree with you on this. I like to have the options of new missions to play but,
some are ridiculously hard.
Its impossible to sort through the missions to find something you might like.
I really like to have ones with custom enemies easier to access.
I have had enough of standard COX enemies.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
Although, I like the new content of MA I find it harder to teamup than it ever has been.
It maybe because its daytime during the week on Freedom, but it wasn't like this before MA.
Farms all over the place. Even AP is full of farmers. Outside of AE it is deserted. No teams to join.
If this problem is not addressed then there will be no reason to play this anymore.
Without social interaction its just a business, not a MMO. There is no fun left.
Maybe this is the only way they can continue to stay solvent.
But, after 4yrs of subscriptions I may need to retire my spandex.
If I gotta solo all the time or farm then the game isn't fun for me anymore.
Too bad this was the only MMO that I liked and if this is its new direction of the game
then GL to NCSoft but I am out.
IMH, MA will kill COX as we knew it if it is allowed to continue without changes.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
I completely agree with you dusk. MA has destroyed teaming all together. There are barley any non-AE farm teams out there. Whatever zone you go to, all you hear is "LFF PUHLEZE!".
Hell, I just did a respec trial with a 45 blaster who has only played the game for 1 day! It's completely insane. If I could have my way, everything would go back to the way it was before i13. No PVP suckyness, no MA, just the fun game CoX was.
"People are like stained-glass windows.
They sparkle and shine when the sun is out,
but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is
light from within"
[ QUOTE ]
Farms all over the place. Even AP is full of farmers. Outside of AE it is deserted. No teams to join.
If this problem is not addressed then there will be no reason to play this anymore.
Without social interaction its just a business, not a MMO. There is no fun left.
Maybe this is the only way they can continue to stay solvent.
But, after 4yrs of subscriptions I may need to retire my spandex.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just start up your own team! There are plenty of folks out there who want to play like you do; you may just have to go out and find them now. What I do is call up the search lists, send invitation tells to folks who fit levels/ATs I'm seeking, and before long I have a team that plays the content I'm choosing. I usually send a broadcast after a couple have joined that sounds something like, "Level x team running AE/scanner/patron/etc mishes lfm. Not farming!" I then often get comments from teammates to the tune of "Thanks! It's nice to get on a non-farming team for a change." The players you want to team with are out there, amigo. Go git 'em!
I don't have a problem with farmers, BTW. I just don't like doing it myself. But I think there ought to be access in-game to as many different play-styles as possible, and I love what MA provides in that regard.
EC
Made many teams in past, had great teams. Have not had any good teams lately.
Lucky if I can find someone willing to duo with me. In my experience anything other than AE
is just not attractive to the players I guess.
Oh well I guess there is always RL if this gets anymore boring.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
Join a global channel (or two) for your server and meet other serious players, join teams with similar playstyles. You'll have better odds finding teams there than in /broadcast and in /search in the current environment.
I know I've started hiding from search to avoid the farms.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
I14, The Good, The Bad, And The UGLY
Good ^_^:
* With the new story Arc system, COH stands out boldly from other MMOs, it is truly a wonderful thing that players now can create there own missions and there own stories
* With i14 i can now sell my salvage and recipes for a lot more, making me just a bit more money then i already have.
* With i14 i wont need two accounts, always good to save money
Bad o.o...mew
* Outside of any area without a AE building, the game isn't a MMO, well maybe the O part but not the MM.
* Finding a normal team or a TF is like finding a purple recipe drop
* CoH has a really good storyline and offers very "awesome" missions, but who cares when there's one more free spot on AE farm....
* There are a lot of dead zones now, its like entering a MMO made "twilight zone" when everyone's dead but you. Only thing its missing is some guy smoking a cigarette and a flying door in otter space.
* With i14 the game isn't fun anymore (in my opinion) and i don't see a reason to continue to pay for something that isn't enjoyable.
The UGLY >:3 RAWR!
* Explaining to a 50 how to get to PI
* Most 50s don't know there own build.
* Most 50s don't know there's a world outside the AE building.
* If this continues most likely users will leave CoH by the masses the moment another big MMO comes out.