Live Feedback: Issue 14: City of Heroes (Blueside)
By
Alpha_A,
Posted on: 2009-04-16 14:34 in Developers' Corner
I love MA! The City now has infinite game content!
However, two-day 50s will kill this game. Devs, you know it.
Cut the benefits of MA arcs, and cut them quickly. Halve the experience and influence on an arc. If not...
Why even bother to have a City out there at all?
[ QUOTE ]
I love MA! The City now has infinite game content!
However, two-day 50s will kill this game. Devs, you know it.
Cut the benefits of MA arcs, and cut them quickly. Halve the experience and influence on an arc. If not...
Why even bother to have a City out there at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
Non-farm MA arcs give appropriate rewards. Don't just cut MA rewards willynilly. Doing so will kill the MA. Cut the obvious farm mules, and we all know what they are and what the tricks are.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Ill give you my 2 cents for what they are worth.
The Good: A
New Missions, New Enemies, Create your own Arch-Enemy.
The Bad: F
No teaming options other than AE, mostly farming
No rating of difficulty on MA missions, easy for them to become deathruns.
No social interaction. Is this a MMO or not ??
The Ugly: F
2 days or less time needed to PL to lvl 50.
No need to leave AE accept to pick your powers at 50.
Overall rating: D
As a concept I loved the idea of having more content.
But as it is now implimented it is a failure.
Because the rest of the game has disappeared. Farming to me is boring.
Therefor to me COX is now very boring.
Making your own missions is great for the RPG aspect, but I tire of trying to find or construct a team.
Maybe my problem is the server (Freedom) or my login time (daytime) but it is a ghost town outside of AE.
As far as I am concerned MA has destroyed the social or team concept of COX.
I might as well go play a single player PS3 game and save my subcription $ and my time.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I am concerned MA has destroyed the social or team concept of COX.
[/ QUOTE ]
form your own team? I noticed a lot of these complaints seem to stem from Freedom players.
you been here long enough, you haven't settled into a good SG/social circle?
[ QUOTE ]
I love MA! The City now has infinite game content!
However, two-day 50s will kill this game. Devs, you know it.
Cut the benefits of MA arcs, and cut them quickly. Halve the experience and influence on an arc. If not...
Why even bother to have a City out there at all?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's an exploit...not the entire MA system. As the saying goes, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It will be tweaked, and things will calm down, I assure you. No need to cry DOOM! just yet...we've had problems before where people were PLing in days as well, and the game made it through that, too (oh, hello mister Winter Lord), so I think things will be OK.
As far as complaints of the game being a ghost town outside MA, well, here are a few points to consider:
1.) MA is still fairly new...folks are still learning what it's capable of, and having fun trying out friends' content.
2.) Not everyone is a farmer. While you see a lot of screaming for meow teams, that's not all that's going on in the AE building - it may not even be the majority. It's just the vocal portion at the moment.
3.) If you want to do something else, ask your SG mates. If your SG is addicted to meow mix, then perhaps you need a new SG. My SG likes running farms, too, but I know if I ask to form up something else, I'll still be able to fill up a team. And that's without turning to the globals outside of my SG. It just takes a little more effort until the hype dies down.
[ QUOTE ]
I've gotta say (and this is mostly OBJECTIVE) that the Search function is borderline useless;
You cannot exclude words.
You cannot separate your search into Architect Name, Arc Name, Description, Enemy Group, or whatever, or any combination thereof.
You cannot even search by phrase, which is frankly rather pathetic- really, putting your search terms in quotemarks should limit it to those words, in that order, only.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a lot of room for improvement with the search function.
However, you can pseudo search by phrase, by putting a plus
sign (+) in front of each word. This may also work in reverse,
though I have not tried it, by putting a minus sign (-) in front of words to exclude.
[ QUOTE ]
2.) Not everyone is a farmer. While you see a lot of screaming for meow teams, that's not all that's going on in the AE building - it may not even be the majority. It's just the vocal portion at the moment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I do mainly farming/PLing when my friends are not online. When we all go on together though, we play each others' arcs, find arcs that look fun and/or cater to our level range, do TF's, Rikti Mothership raids, Hamidon raids,
and yes, sometimes we spend an hour or two farming/PLing each other.
[ QUOTE ]
3.) If you want to do something else, ask your SG mates. If your SG is addicted to meow mix, then perhaps you need a new SG. My SG likes running farms, too, but I know if I ask to form up something else, I'll still be able to fill up a team. And that's without turning to the globals outside of my SG. It just takes a little more effort until the hype dies down.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can also advertise in your server's forum, like Frog does for his weekly TF's. I check them once or twice a week, for the two servers that I play on.
Do not be afraid to advertise in the global channels either (Triumph Watch 2.0 and 2.1, if you are on Triumph, and Guardian and Level 50, if you are on Guardian), as people frequently (even now) get their teams filled that way.
Based on the majority of posts in the thread; I think you will have no problem getting together a team that is not all about farming.
Good luck, and have fun!
[ QUOTE ]
It's a little disheartening that with teams, only the team lead really sees the story text. All team members should be able to talk to the contact and at least be able to read the text. (This goes for Task Forces too.)
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a common misconception. Anyone can read the mission briefings and send-off text by clicking the little red starburst that appears in their Nav bar once they're inside the mission. The only thing the team leader gets that the rest of the team never has access to is the return-to-contact text. In the case of task forces, where the final RTC text can be a huge payoff (I'm looking at you, Lady Grey...), that's a fairly big issue, but for the most part, anyone can follow the briefings.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
[ QUOTE ]
MA will kill COX as we knew it if it is allowed to continue without changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
And IMO - thank God for that. I'm sorry (and I've been here since closed beta); but CoH had become the most repetative MMO among MMOs. (And no, I've never farmed and just think farming is a real waste in CoX (and it's something I've never engaged in as it's pointless) since it's also an MMO with no real 'end-game' beyond Ioing out a Level 50.
Yes, all MMOs are glorified 'Whack A Mole" type games, but the content for CoX was ALWAYS extra-repetative; and if anything the MA has solved that because some of the player made Arcs have been very creative and have been a breath of freash air to this game.
What I hink the Devs need to do is DRASTICALLY rerfine the current MA search engine - and BAN from using the MA; those who REPEATEADLY create and re-publish farm missions. If they don't like AE farms they need to ban those who create them from creating them. Of course to be fully effective; this means trial accounts should not be able to create MA missions, period; as this is probably where most MA farm missions come from. But the main problem I have with teh MA search function is that it's not robust enough to allow one to really pair down and find good story focused, non-farm content.
As for teaming? Come on, if ANYONE thinks it's hard to get a Team; then you really need to look at other MMOs and see what being hard to find a team really is; because teaming has never been hard in CoX (and I still see and have answered TF and SF group tells and requests since I14 hit).
I am NOT in the opinion that farming in AE is only temporary and that things will go back to "normal" farming levels later. The facts and the history do not support this.
Firstly, we went from the tolerated farming system where:
1) someone had to have one of a few ideal missions at lvl 50,
2) for each person under level 45 you wanted to power level you have to have someone over level 46 to sidekick them
To the new and improved AE farming system:
1) Anyone level 1 or higher can make or find farming missions
2) You can do a level 54 Rikti farm mission with 8 level 1s on your team
I generally don't care if people farm or not. But, I am casting my ballot here in opposition to it as this has taken the majority of the dwindling available players out of the teaming pool and put a majority of them into the farming pool.
All I am saying is that anyone who says this is only a temporary thing is nuts. Power leveling has historically been worse every time it became easier to do so. If you give players the option of a 2-day lvl 50, most are too tempted not to. And others will just venture into it "just to get themselves through the boring levels".
A witch hunt for players with farming missions is a bad idea. Its not good for business to alienate players who were doing something legal in the game until a new ruling comes along. Afterall, the problem isn't the players who are motivated to get a 50. The problem is the mission creator is flawed and is allowing more people than ever to skip content in favor of quick levels.
So what is the fix? I suggest that the custom content we all are creating should adhere to the same rules as any other missions already in the game.
1) I, as a creator, should decide up front what the level range of the mission is and then the mission creator will only gives my story arc access to the appropriate level enemies/allies based on that range.
2) Custom enemy groups must adhere to certain rules. Like you have to have at least 1 minion, 1 lieutenant and 1 boss for starters.
And after I publish my arc...
3) You have to be in that level range to get that mission.
4) No player is auto boosted to the minimum level of the mission. Find someone to sidekick you or you do not recieve xp. It's completely absurd to have a full team of level 1's and 2's gaining massive xp for fighting a mission full of nothing but level 54 Rikti Communication Officer's.
If all that comes to pass then the players also need...
5) the ability to sort the missions into level ranges
My suggestions don't stop power leveling all it does is return the sanity back to the power leveling and make the mission creator more non-farming friendly. Anyway, this is all just my opinion. Take it for what its worth. :P
You are correct that this has permanently changed the way farming will be done. I never claimed that it wouldn't. What I did say it that the thrill of the architect will die down at some point, which is not the same thing. Let me try and elaborate here, and clear up some misconceptions.
Yes, anyone level 1 can create a farm mission. However, your scenario of 8 level 1s is a bit off base - they would not have the tools necessary to successfully farm a mission. Even though the game will auto-sk them up to the appropriate level, they still do not have the powers needed to do much of anything. Still, you CAN now have one well-built farming toon PLing a group of 7 with little or no problem.
This being what it is, though, I think a lot of people are being given the wrong image of what's going on in the AE building because broadcast is crowded by requests for meow teams. There are a significant number of people using the architect as intended, and as the newness of MA fades, these people will cycle back into the teaming pool. Most of the farming being done is being done by people who were farming anyway...it's just now it's in one convenient building, and it's more "in your face" than it's been in quite some time.
Is this new wave of farming attracting some folks who did not used to farm? Yes, a few more, anyway. There are some people who wanted farming and PLing that didn't know how to find it before, and now are having no problems finding it. Many of those people will get bored and either cycle back into the normal channels, or leave the game altogether.
Of course, fixing a serious exploit of the system would go a long way towards restoring some equilibrium as well. The architect in and of itself is not broken, but some people figured out a way to milk it for all it's worth, and eventually, countermeasures will be put into place to fix the issue. It's already happened a few times this issue - a glaring example was the imp mission I ran into, which spawned a map of level 54 fire imp minions, all of which had 5 hps each, but gave full xp. You'll notice that's no longer possible, and everyone knows the current situation will be resolved, as well. So right now there are many people "getting while the getting's good."
So you are right and wrong. This is not temporary, in that it's changed the manner in which something has been done for quite some time. You are wrong in that things will hit an equilibrium point again, and I'd venture to say sooner rather than later, depending on what the dev team does to address the exploits.
Mender:
My rant wasn't directed at you, it was more the general chorus on the boards I kept reading "don't worry it goes away and things go back to normal" or "you're not looking hard enough for teams".
If anything, I think I agree with most things you stated other than two minor issues.
First, any team of 8 level 1's and 2s can muddle their way thru 2 mobs in a farming mission, even without all the vet temp powers some of us inherit. They will have gained 3-4 levels each. Exit, buy some training-Os, restart and ta-da piece of cake. That was my not-very-likely-but-still-possible scenario. I have personally seen a farm team with no one higher than 20 on the team fighting lvl 54 rikti. My point was that level is not really a factor any more.
The only other point of (minor) disagreement is that sooner or later we will hit an equilibrium point again. The level of farming is not always static. But there is a point that exists where the devs tolerate farming. I agree, sooner or later, the club will come back to hammer out the AE farming issues. All I am saying is I don't mind if people are farming once it goes back to a level prior to i14. I suspect the devs would be happy with that as well.
To me, it is a little bothersome that the devs are publicly pretending its not happening. I certainly hope its a priority to all the devs. Because this game can't afford to drive away players who repeatedly show up to team and can't solo thanks to all the nerfs we've endured over the years and a Create-Your-Own-Farm-Mission creator.
I have to say that after having been on the game for 5 years and doing so many arcs, MA was like a breath of fresh air both in being able to create my own arcs and seeing the creativity in others. Yes, there are farms, but there are sooo many other arcs out there and I will periodically go sample them; primarily those that are not Dev Choice, etc.
To me, the idea that users can create any sort of arc gives the Freedom (pun intended) to create what they like, and conversely, users can select which ones they want to play. My arcs are more story based and as to the earlier comment about getting it played, its a concern of mine as well. However, I have to admit that the ability to create fascinates me and has extended my addiction to CoH for more years.
I found that some of my old friends on Guardian have returned because of MA and now we go and run each others missions, and some of the SGs i'm in are also doing the same; so those may provide avenues to play your arcs as well.
In any event, I for one am ecstatic that MA was added, I am humbled and honored to play with so many creative people its just amazing..yes there is junk out there here and there but just like in any bookstore, you can choose to have discriminating taste and really choose the genre that best fits your gameplay.
Arc: 378122 "Tales of the Terran Space Marines -The Apocalypse Initiative" 5stars!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rgl4...687B0FC89F142C
Arc: 481545 "Twilight of the Gods - The Praetorian conflict"8000+ hits!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxJ6S...848B21E2350DCC
look if a person wants to farm, why not let them? who are they hurting? the object of this game is to have FUN, you should not be able to dictate what i should be doing to have fun and i should not do the same to you
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
Firstly, I love the MA. I'm a writer by trade so being able to make my own arcs is great.
I am as saddened as other posters by the farming spam but more because of the diminishing skill of players than anything. Yesterday I had a WS player ask me where to get Enhancements. He'd obviously been speed-leveled to 50 and then started a WS just to see.
I also think that the Market is going to need help...perhaps in the form of reinstating Common Slavage drops in MA arcs or something. This past weekend the price of several Common Salvage pieces was topping 100k since fewer players are selling it and more want common IOs that won't wear out as they speed up through the levels.
However one of the main attractions for me remains: I get to see ALL the cool maps that I have never seen before or have only seen once! I don't farm TFs and most of my toons have never even done a Posi or Infernal TF. So now I can see some of the really nice unique maps without having to run a TF or truck through a lengthy story arc.
To be honest I've wished for the Devs to use some of these maps more often even before the MA. I mean they spend all that time and energy on a map that a relatively small percentage get to see? Why so? Why not reuse them once in a while?
Well now they can. I'm not sure about the Market woes or what to do about the massive farming but I do know that I love the idea of the MA.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
[ QUOTE ]
To me, it is a little bothersome that the devs are publicly pretending its not happening. I certainly hope its a priority to all the devs. Because this game can't afford to drive away players who repeatedly show up to team and can't solo thanks to all the nerfs we've endured over the years and a Create-Your-Own-Farm-Mission creator.
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT.
This concerns me too. While it is nice that the farmers can all find one another and no longer resort to padding requests, the "I made it to level 40 in 5 hours" and "I made it to 50 in 9" as I heard today on a team makes me cringe. These were their first characters too. They were newbies. This is what they knew of the game.
When I search the MA mission list and over half what I find are obvious farms and over half what is left beyond that looks like it came from a 3rd grader it makes me very, very sad. I wish that players could have seen MA as it was in beta when the only content in it was story-driven arcs and the vast majority had a serious effort of proofreading and testing prior to hitting the publish button. It was a very different MA. Now finding quality content is like searching for a needle in a haystack.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Speaking as someone who frequently leads groups the worst feature is the beauty contest rating system. I don't need an easily manipulated beauty contest. I need to know the challenge level of the custom critters in the missions. If the custom critters are too tough then my PUG will all quit. They won't wait and try a new arc they all quit immediately. Five Stars because the someone had people in their SG pump up the ratings doesn't do me a danged bit of good when the entire NPC has tar pit or holds and the entire group quits . I have stopped leading PUGs for now in the MA because its a waste of time. I spend more time rebuilding teams when I could have been leading radio missions for hours with no one quitting.
I love what I can do with the MA. I think too many people were expecting it to be more like the base editor, but it does what it's supposed to do. Great tool to add, lots of fun!
I think we would benefit from a 'searching for AE missions' check option. We have them for things I never see people using (like looking for patrols or arena).
The AE building in Atlas Park is difficult to work with. It's too easy for people to lvl from 1 to 50 in a few hours and never leave the starting zone. Not to mention the lag and DC's and farming invites. Perhaps adjusting the sk rules on MA mishs? Taking away content from the MA will make it lose value.
The increase in farming is annoying. My Emails have tripled. The broadcast (Freedom server) channel moves so fast in Atlas with lff requests you can't read it.
Teams are now asking for resumes. They need a stone tank or a fire/kin at a certain lvl. Teaming is getting complicated.
The market has gone crazy to me; when a defic weapon was worth 3-4mil and was rare but now can be bought with tickets I can earn in one arc. Same with Pangeon Soil and Sigils etc. You can't even get that with Merits which are harder to get.
I realize these things are worse on my server. I also can ignore all these things and get along with my game, but they do detract from the experience overall. Just add me to the list...
I must say when I first heard of I14, I didn't really expect anything from it. Then when it was released, I spent a week making stories. This is a very good issue.
For those of us that has story telling in mind this is the best thing to happen to COH/COV. And to be able to play new content is also a bonus.
As for the farmers. They'll get bored and actually start playing for the stories or just move on to another game. In the long run they're hurting themselves in not experiencing all the game has to over.
The cool thing about all this is that now there is a choice in whether you want to go through the game in cruise control, experience it as it should be, or do both.
I personally dont see a problem with the system. Some days I do feel that I've done certain missions way too many times: its expected when you have a total of 36 characters. Do I want to see all my characters reach 50. Sure, eventually. Will I farm during those lvls I see no fit in redoing content that bores me, of course. Will I do the story arcs of missions I've never tried with my other characters? Of course.
In the end, its how we play the game. I still love this new issue. My only gripe is that I can only have 3 stories published at a time.
And on that note, I'd like a Vet reward to be able to publish atleast five stories at a time.
Shameless Plug: search for Zojitzu to see my currently published arcs. 
My 50s: Zenshin (stkr), TrueBluePhoenix (dom), Zen'th (blstr), Foul-Play (blstr), Zojitzu (scrpr), ZyoXinZhou (scrpr), Protonic Avenger (def)
Living on Virtue, Vacationing on Justice, Visiting Pinnacle, Getting started on Victory & Infinity
I agree I14 is AWESOME. Everyone has a choice to do whatever you want. Farm,mishes,TFs,storyarcs,sewers,just to name a few lol. Soooo much to do and such little time. :-)
I must agree with you on your observations.
Since my SG friends not usually on in daytime, I must work with PUG.
I have no problem with MA in theory, because I like the new enemies created for us to fight and
the other new content.
But, I have a big problem with the difficulty of the new missions in MA.
It maybe because of the enemies or the lack of a difficulty rating on missions
or the skills of the players in the group but, it is impossible to determine the challange lvl in many cases.
Many PUG players and noobs crank up the difficulty and run into the mission or farm to
find it impossible and they all die. Then the PUG dissolves and its over.
Dying is not really fun and MA has lots of it in my experience.
I would rather run a mission in the city than to run up incredible debt in AE missions.
Another big problem is that the city is abandoned now due to AE farms.
I have no problem with farms until all teaming is gone, and its just a groups of 8
PLing to 50 in atlas park and the rest of us soloing.
This MA is worse than WinterLord for PL excess.
I hope this does not continue, some farming is ok, but it would be better suitted to
lvl 30 or 40+ zones instead of all zones.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
I do not have a problem with people farming.
I have done it before and may do it again.
I am just frustrated with the fact that there is now no one doing other missions.
Farming to me is ok in moderation, but the amount being done now is obscene.
If this the new direction then I must leave the CITY of FARMS.
TOO BORING. I will just PL a couple of alts up and quit.
I hear some other superhero game(s) are coming out,
maybe someone that wants to team.
50's on Freedom--12+ Lone Eagle INV Tanker, Crey Avenger NRG Blaster,
Dnase EMP Defender, Paradox? GRAV KIN Troller,FireFox FIRE Blaster,
Irish Ember FIRE EMP Troller, Marble ST Tanker, Archangel FIRE Kintroller
Farming vaguely annoys me, but I love what MA offers; I will be very unhappy if, motivated to stop farming, MA looses functions or cool elements I enjoy.
Burning out fast on I14. The power leveling teams seem to be the only ones going(even on Virtue).
This just seems like the end of Tabula Rasa when they were giving away the hyper xp tokens in the last week; it was fun for a while, then it just got boring.
Is CoX dying too? It sure feels that way.
Enjoying the Mission Architect more than I thought I would. I've started compiling a list of feature requests, however.
Suggestions and Requests:
<ul type="square"> [*]More publishing slots. Purchasable slots would be fine, be it in-game currency or in the online store. I would happily drop $10 for 5 publishing slots.[*]More maps. Specifically I'd like to see the various Shadow Shard maps made available, even as an unlockable.[*]More objects. I'd like to see Circle of Thorn portals and so forth as objects to guard or destroy. Was surprised they weren't in the list.[*]I'd like the ability to create special 1 on 1 'boss battles' for story reasons, the existing battle setting doesn't allow for this unless you want multiple copies of each boss which looks kind of silly. (For example, I'd like to have a 'stop the battle' mission description and set up a 1 on 1 between an AV and an EB with the EB on the 'Ally' side. Obviously alone, the AV is going to win - creating a nice sense of urgency for the player to find and help the EB.)[*]Single 'patrols'. I'd like to have the AV/EB spawn and roam by himself sometimes just to add a bit of flavor. Right now the closest you can get is an ambush.[*]Old Rikti group. I know this is probably not possible but I'd sure like to have the original Rikti group/costume set to stage missions during the original invasion. [*]'Publish' button should gray out if no slots are available.[*]It's a little disheartening that with teams, only the team lead really sees the story text. All team members should be able to talk to the contact and at least be able to read the text. (This goes for Task Forces too.)[*]I'd like to see more MA power sets such as Rikti rifles and so forth. Stuff that already exists in the game but isn't currently reflected.[*]I'd really like to see Peacebringer/Warshade abilities for custom critters. I know that makes the programmers cry.[/list]
Bugs:
<ul type="square">[*]If an escort is set to Betray, after the betrayal occurs any buff/healing abilities still aid the player (and allies).[*]Sometimes the text editor eats characters, usually when inserting text.[*]The mission objective doesn't appear in the navigation window for team members other than the team leader.[*]Sometimes things/spawns are placed incorrectly. For example, bosses appear in the front even if you specify 'back'. [*]Sometimes updates to the story description are not visible in the MA browser even if you log out and back in.[/list]
@Skolia
So many toons, so little time.
http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/17258