The hall of fame badges have now achieved "Replacement PVP" status.
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It's not just the badge. This is a system that recognizes excellence and flags it for other players but it's designed in a way that facilitates griefing jerks who want to smack the arc back down into obscurity.
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I wholeheartedly agree that the system, as it is, is prone to griefing and thus probably fails to live up to the supposed vision the Devs had for it. I was never really actually all that 'thrilled' with having a player rated system like this in the first place, especially one that involved badges in any way.
It's hard to say if things will get any better with this or if the Devs are going to have to "adjust" things to make the situation less chaotic. But until things improve it's easy enough to just decide we now have a few more badges on our hands that are just as silly and subjectively shortsighted as Bug Hunter is and pretend they don't even exist. I'm not really going to lose sleep over them either way until something fundamentally changes.
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Gotta agree with Lothic, and everyone else: the System is [censored] as it stands. BUT I am pretty sure that if we give it some time, it will blow over and things will stabilize enough to create a 'stable' of HoF arcs for badging.
Looking over the Forums; there is a lot of angst over how farming MA is ruining the game, etc, etc. Oh woe is me; I cannot get a team that isnt farming MA or running MA arcs, or just dont wanna do regular content. Well, we know that's how it's going to be for a while anyway. It always is. Once everyone has their fill of MA, Skywalker can bring balance to the Force, and it'll be all good.
Meh, just my opining. I feel ya, Beef, but I know that a man like you has enough patience for this, and I'm sure we all know that it'll go pretty much like I said. It just sucks right now. And WE WANT IT NOW! Oh, well. I agree.
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I agree.
As Beef said, the Hall of Fame status can sometimes vanish mid-mission.
Once Hall of Fame status has been achieved, the mission should remain a Hall of Fame mission.
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Well, possibly not forever.
At the very least, a mission should remain Hall of Fame until the next server reset to avoid immediate effects of the 1-star brigade.
As well as if people start a HoF mission, then it should count as a tick for the badge regardless of its status once it's finished.
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As well as if people start a HoF mission, then it should count as a tick for the badge regardless of its status once it's finished.
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I'm pretty sure that's the case. Any changes made to a mission that you've already started don't affect the version of mission you're currently undertaking. The other day I started The Footsteps Initiative when it briefly had HoF status, but by the time I was done it had been knocked back down. I got 1/5 progress for the first badge.
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As well as if people start a HoF mission, then it should count as a tick for the badge regardless of its status once it's finished.
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I'm pretty sure that's the case. Any changes made to a mission that you've already started don't affect the version of mission you're currently undertaking. The other day I started The Footsteps Initiative when it briefly had HoF status, but by the time I was done it had been knocked back down. I got 1/5 progress for the first badge.
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Not according to the OP.
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Myself and a few others I know have played a HoF arc, and by the time we finished the arc, it was no longer a HoF and we did not get credit for playing a HoF arc.
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I played the Footsteps Initiative 6 times and am absolutely certain that it was HoF at the beginning and end of each run because I wouldn't have run it the next time if it wasn't. I got credit for 3 runs. Either it isnt tracking correctly or it went off and went back on the HoF list mid run and that caused it to not count 3 times.
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Once Hall of Fame status has been achieved, the mission should remain a Hall of Fame mission.
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At the very least it should "stick" for 1-7 days so that it couldn't immediately be de-HoF'd. Without the immediate gratification of people being able to just make the flag go away, the enthusiasm with which these arcs are griefed might be diminished.
@Mindshadow
I think the requirements should simply change.. Instead of "1000 ratings with an average of 4.5 stars" (or whatever it is), why not just make that line of badges something similar to "at least 1000 5* ratings" Then the value can't really be griefed, and it would keep it's status.
If the community is using votes to voice such opposition to arcs being identified as HOF, maybe the whole concept is too elitist and ratings should just be ratings with no added HOF labeling?
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I think the requirements should simply change.. Instead of "1000 ratings with an average of 4.5 stars" (or whatever it is), why not just make that line of badges something similar to "at least 1000 5* ratings" Then the value can't really be griefed, and it would keep it's status.
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That's an interesting way to define it without accumulating a count of stars.
So the lower ones would be counts of 3+ and counts of 4+? I wouldn't want to get into a situation where I have to write a dumbed down arc to specifically get 3's. Or would it be better just to only count 5's at differing quantities?
(and do we need to split this into 2 threads so we can be clear when we're talking about badges for running hall of fame arcs, vs badges for having written hall of fame arcs?)
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If the community is using votes to voice such opposition to arcs being identified as HOF, maybe the whole concept is too elitist and ratings should just be ratings with no added HOF labeling?
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I'm not averse to the idea of just removing the whole Hall of Fame idea if it's too much of a pain in the backside, but I think the problem is more that the qualifications for HoF are so fragile that a small number of hooligans can have a weight in the determination far out of proportion to their numbers.
@Mindshadow
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I think the requirements should simply change.. Instead of "1000 ratings with an average of 4.5 stars" (or whatever it is), why not just make that line of badges something similar to "at least 1000 5* ratings" Then the value can't really be griefed, and it would keep it's status.
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That's an interesting way to define it without accumulating a count of stars.
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That's a very interesting way to handle it, yeah; my concern though would be someone who wrote up an arc that was very popular, then decided "unsubbing, editing the mish to show Psyche beating up some kids" and basically gut the arc while maintaining the HoF value.
i.e., what they were trying to avoid with DevChoice. =/ Maybe, if something makes HoF status, the same "read only" flag applies?...
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I think the requirements should simply change.. Instead of "1000 ratings with an average of 4.5 stars" (or whatever it is), why not just make that line of badges something similar to "at least 1000 5* ratings" Then the value can't really be griefed, and it would keep it's status.
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That's an interesting way to define it without accumulating a count of stars.
So the lower ones would be counts of 3+ and counts of 4+? I wouldn't want to get into a situation where I have to write a dumbed down arc to specifically get 3's. Or would it be better just to only count 5's at differing quantities?
(and do we need to split this into 2 threads so we can be clear when we're talking about badges for running hall of fame arcs, vs badges for having written hall of fame arcs?)
[/ QUOTE ] No you wouldn't have to dumb down your arcs. A rating of 5 would count towards every badge in the series.
I was thinking it should be more like this (for example):
Builder - Have one of your arcs earn 100 ratings.
Constructor - Have one of your arcs earn 250 ratings of 2-stars or higher.
Engineer - Have one of your arcs earn 500 ratings of 3-stars or higher.
Designer - Have one of your arcs earn 1000 ratings of 4-stars or higher.
Master Builder - Have one of your arcs earn 2000 5-star ratings.
Hall of Famer - Have a story arc reach Hall of Fame status.
Even if your arc was good enough to ONLY get 5 stars.. you'd still progress through that line of badges in order. It would prevent griefing.. and it would also allow the "unworthy arcs" to still possibly earn a couple of them.
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That's a very interesting way to handle it, yeah; my concern though would be someone who wrote up an arc that was very popular, then decided "unsubbing, editing the mish to show Psyche beating up some kids" and basically gut the arc while maintaining the HoF value.
[/ QUOTE ] Anybody who would purposefully destroy a great arc would be really irresponsible.
After 2000 5 star ratings (even if there were 500 1 star ratings as well), it was good enough for 2000 people to think it was really good and it should be HoF. I'd agree with placing an an uneditable status on those arcs at that point.
i do agree that hall of fame arcs are ridiculously hard to get and it doesnt make any bit of sense to me that they can lose the status. once it is hall of fame, anyone could come by and 1 or 0 star it just to kill the hall of fame rating.
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After 2000 5 star ratings (even if there were 500 1 star ratings as well), it was good enough for 2000 people to think it was really good and it should be HoF. I'd agree with placing an an uneditable status on those arcs at that point.
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The fact that you're fine with your arc being uneditable doesn't mean everyone would. Unlike Dev's Choice, where you're notified before it happens and can decline, HoF can - and does - happen whenever the community decides the arc's good enough. Basically, the author doesn't have a choice on whether they want to give up control of their work or not.
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I think if arcs can fall out of Hall of Fame status, then they need to come up with a new name. Seriously, what kind of Hall of Fame kicks people out? One of the ideas behind a Hall of Fame is that people stay in it for perpetuity. Imagine if they told The Rolling Stones, "Hey, we're going to let you into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but you have to keep your record sales up to stay there!"
Hall of 15 Minutes of Fame?
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Hall of 15 Minutes of Fame?
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Why not? The same could apply to the Dev Choice badges, otherwise we'd be looking at potentially hundreds of DC arcs within a year or two. "Retiring" the DC/HoF status to something as easily-searchable but not with the "current" sentiment makes sense IMO.
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Hall of 15 Minutes of Fame?
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Why not? The same could apply to the Dev Choice badges, otherwise we'd be looking at potentially hundreds of DC arcs within a year or two. "Retiring" the DC/HoF status to something as easily-searchable but not with the "current" sentiment makes sense IMO.
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They said in one of the interviews that they were shooting for about 1% Dev's Choice, which superficially sounds like a fairly elite group. However, by that metric, we should be closing in on a *thousand* Dev's Choice *already* (I believe arc IDs are already over 100,000, but it's hard to say what fraction of those are actually valid).
It really seems that the Devs didn't think the scaling through on all this. Some of us have been pointing out for some time (since early Open Beta in my case) that better search tools would be terribly important, that an interface capable of handling over 10^5 arcs would be essential, and that their review system both for the good stuff (Dev's Choice, etc.) and the bad stuff (pulling arcs that violate ToS, etc.) was going to need to be more robust than they seemed to be prepared for.
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They said in one of the interviews that they were shooting for about 1% Dev's Choice, which superficially sounds like a fairly elite group. However, by that metric, we should be closing in on a *thousand* Dev's Choice *already* (I believe arc IDs are already over 100,000, but it's hard to say what fraction of those are actually valid).
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Every so often, someone counts. I think the last time someone counted, the actual number of arcs available was around 20% of the highest ID # used.
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Been on most of the morning and the Hall of Fame arc that shows up periodically has been up all morning. Perhaps they fixed HoF arcs with todays patch, maybe per Beef Cakes suggestion they lock in now? I've run it 11 times today and got credit each time..thought I'd spread the word. Hope it stays for good.
Feel free to leave your input on my Hall Of Fame - Anti-Griefing Suggestion...
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