Critical Critques - Reviewing "Awful Arcs"
By
AwesomusPrime,
Posted on: 2009-04-10 10:59 in Mission Architect
I have to say this is not something that I could see being constructive in any way whatsoever.
If you actually do an arc, then there is a in game feedback system to deal with your thought that goes directly to the author.
I really don't see what constructive purpose coming to the forum and critque griefing them does. I think it may also be against forum rules. Let see what Mod08 thinks.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Please note that while it can be important to learn how to identify bad techniques so that your own arcs get better, that is quite different than openly attacking those who wrote something you dislike.
Good:
I was recently playing a mission and had to deal with a ff/nrg blast character. Wow that was frustrating, I'd hate to see a story full of those.
or
I enjoyed the start of the mission, because I found it humorous to be able to beat up satirical versions of a prolific forum poster. After defeating the 43rd black gargoyle however, it started to get a bit old and the mission had little else to recommend it, it seemed like a one trick pony. I could potentially enjoy the arc, but it would need to work on more than that one level.
Bad:
Arc: XXXXX really sucked. The person who wrote it should be put in the stocks in atlas park.
I hate the stories that Mod08 writes. God he can't ever remember to not include the apostrophe when using "it's" as a possessive. Lets all go 1 star his arc so that he goes and kills himself.
Poster XXXX's global name is @XXXX. Since he posted this offensive thing, lets go nuke his arcs.
ArcID: XXXXX is just terrible. The author can't design costumes at all.
Edit:Not including identifying information is definitely recommended.
The Message Forum Rules and Guidelines definitely apply to this thread and these sorts of discussions.
Thanks,
-Mod8-
If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling
Have a question? Try the PlayNC Knowledge Base
Thanks for the clarification Mod8; that's definitely the intention of this thread. One can be critical without being spiteful or overly berating.
Also:
[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the start of the mission, because I found it humorous to be able to beat up satirical versions of a prolific forum poster. After defeating the 43rd black gargoyle however, it started to get a bit old and the mission had little else to recommend it, it seemed like a one trick pony. I could potentially enjoy the arc, but it would need to work on more than that one level.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see what you did there 
To promptly derail this thread by discussing stupid things I've done in the MA-
If you run Doms/Controllers against blaster-type enemies in the MA, be prepared for a rude surprise. My Earth/Psi Dom nearly got rolled when I held an LT only to be promptly shot in the face despite having fossilize double-stacked on him.
There's no shame in fessing up to stuff you've done yourself in the MA. It's still relevant to the thread IMO 
I never re-published it, but I had an arc on test called "Tale of 100 Synapses"...it involved saving 50 Synapses to help you defeat 50 other Synapses.
After about 30, watching them SS up stairs was just like watching Salmon swim up waterfalls.
[ QUOTE ]
There's no shame in fessing up to stuff you've done yourself in the MA. It's still relevant to the thread IMO
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, under the "Previous Name That Shall Not Be Named," it made more sense than with the "awful arc" title. I haven't published anything yet; not enough experimenting. Strangely obsessive about perfecting my missions first. Therefore, there's no shame at all, and even if there was, I still wouldn't have any.
Though this might bear mentioning: Your in-the-works missions that aren't published are on your computer, NOT your account.
And another piece of advice, culled from a couple of MA missions I've played: Take it easy on the MM-powered characters. Seriously, it's really annoying for slow folks (I'm talking about their connections or PCs, not the folks themselves) to get laggy because you gave your LTs Gang War.
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say this is not something that I could see being constructive in any way whatsoever.
If you actually do an arc, then there is a in game feedback system to deal with your thought that goes directly to the author.
I really don't see what constructive purpose coming to the forum and critque griefing them does. I think it may also be against forum rules. Let see what Mod08 thinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Darth,
I can only speak for myself, but I will be missing most of the online comments because I actively edit my chatbox channels to minimize the tells I get to only certain characters.
So the only places I'll be getting feedback is from my friends or if I see something mentioned on the forums.
I also think that if we make an effort, we can give positive and negative feedback without resorting to being nasty.
I know that sounds funny coming from me. I admit I can be opinionated and I've posted things without thinking how they will sound to other people, but I honestly can't see myself cruelly tearing into someone because I don't like their stories.
I've been running only unrated arcs and hit a lot of reallies?
Awful Green Things:
Same custom costume on Contact, Hero, and Hostage
Description "Arc just for levelling"
"President Obama" as the contact for a mission
Custom character: "Stripper"
Two arcs with Lts using Thugs (outrageously funny vs. plant troller.) I confuse them, they summon their thugs who proceed to beat them to a pulp.
<qr>
I've seen a plethora of arcs already that fall into genre categories that on the whole I think are wastes of time. I'll describe them here without naming names.
1. Badge farms
"Normal" badges can't be farmed in MA missions, but there are badges specifically for doing things in the MA. Unsurprisingly, everyone and their mother has created a mission filled with the kinds of things you have to do to earn those MA-only badges. (I'm halfway tempted to write a short story arc where you go into those missions and LOLPvP badge-hunters straight to the hospital.)
2. Ticket farms
I've actually played a few of these out of curiosity, and other than the fact that there is absolutely no story attached and they generally take place on one of the popular maps, it's unclear to me why they are any better for generating tickets than any story arc with, you know, an actual story. I'm sure Darth will be along to laugh at me and say I'm doing it wrong, but that's his prerogative.
3. AV Gauntlet
This mission is just a string of AV encounters, usually in one of the larger cave complexes. Like farms, there's usually no story here, and the end result is that even AV soloists get bored. I understand the temptation to create the thing everyone will want to be able to brag about beating - but trust me, a serial AV encounter string isn't going to be that. Arcanaville's Scrapper Challenge has no AVs at all, and it's way harder than any of the other Gauntlet arcs I've tried.
While we're on the subject, it's worth noting that Arcanaville put some effort into making the Scrapper Challenge as player-friendly as possible given the extreme challenge involved. The mission has introductory text telling you what's going on, with a dash of humor; the map is pretty small, so you don't have to fight through a bunch of dreck to get to the interesting bits; and the critters are set up to be not just big bags of HP, but challenging combinations of opposing powersets to keep players on their toes. The Scrapper Challenge has a limited audience for sure, but within that niche it's by far the best implementation I've seen of the genre.
If you're going to go for the so-hard-your-children's-children-will-still-be-crying mission, you'd better hold yourself up to some pretty high standards for gameplay novelty.
4. Single-mission tests
I don't quite get why, but a lot of people seem to be publishing single missions out of longer arcs as individual arcs. I know there are sometimes reasons that you have to split up a story because it won't all fit, but this isn't that - this is literally just one mission. The end clue implies that there's another mission afterwards, but there isn't. No pointer to another arc. Nothing.
Is it because they want to generate tickets while they playtest? Is there some confusion on the part of the author on how the system is supposed to work? Maybe they plan to get critiques from SG mates or whatnot on individual missions during the playtesting process?
Whatever it is I find it frustrating, particularly since some of these stories are actually pretty good, and I'd want to play the whole thing if it were available. Authors, please, if you're doing this for whatever reason, I urge you to clearly label these missions.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
[ QUOTE ]
2. Ticket farms
I've actually played a few of these out of curiosity, and other than the fact that there is absolutely no story attached and they generally take place on one of the popular maps, it's unclear to me why they are any better for generating tickets than any story arc with, you know, an actual story. I'm sure Darth will be along to laugh at me and say I'm doing it wrong, but that's his prerogative.
[/ QUOTE ]
I won't say that you are doing it wrong mate. The real farmers know how to do it and thats all that counts. They harbor no ill will towards any non farmers. Anti farmers...well they can suck a rotten egg.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
There's only three things that have annoyed me so far:
1. Turning critters to Extreme for no reason. In most cases this doesn't make them harder, just more obnoxious to defeat. It's great that a crowd of minions can mass hold me and all, but they don't have the collective firepower to really threaten me, and after I break loose they are all dead. That's not fun or challenging, it's just adding 30 seconds onto what should be a routine fight.
2. Lack of variety. I did an arc that was three missions against the Tsoo in a warehouse, then a fourth mission that was Tsoo and some Snakes. Even if the story is interesting, it gets old very fast if it feels like you're just doing the same thing over and over again. Look at what the Citadel TF does, and don't do that.
3. Using /Ninjitsu enemies in a "Defeat All" mission. Seriously, why do you hate humanity?
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
Bad Thing #1: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #2: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #3: Giving Force Field set to an EB who appears in the arc three times!
Seriously, spending the entire fight either in Detention or having Force Bolt spammed at you is just going to lead to your players Rage-quitting and giving you a low rating.
[ QUOTE ]
Bad Thing #1: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #2: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #3: Giving Force Field set to an EB who appears in the arc three times!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. I had to change out FF on an end of arc EB I made because of this -- some players were amused by him detbubbling you and then running Aid Self, but not many else were.
There's just too many sets that come prepackaged with annoying powers. Web Grenades, Smoke Grenades, Carrion Creepers (to an extent), ANYTHING on Extreme. And the Blaster-Defiance means all of MA is really, really nasty on controllery types.
My favorite example, and I say this with love since it's from one of my SG mates, was a Stone Armor / Energy Melee LT. With Buildup. Two of them punched through my scrapper's mezprot and killed me in under three seconds. Yow! Fortunately, knocking them down a level was enough to make them challenging instead of bend-over-and-lube-up.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
[ QUOTE ]
4. Single-mission tests
I don't quite get why, but a lot of people seem to be publishing single missions out of longer arcs as individual arcs. I know there are sometimes reasons that you have to split up a story because it won't all fit, but this isn't that - this is literally just one mission. The end clue implies that there's another mission afterwards, but there isn't. No pointer to another arc. Nothing.
Is it because they want to generate tickets while they playtest? Is there some confusion on the part of the author on how the system is supposed to work? Maybe they plan to get critiques from SG mates or whatnot on individual missions during the playtesting process?
Whatever it is I find it frustrating, particularly since some of these stories are actually pretty good, and I'd want to play the whole thing if it were available. Authors, please, if you're doing this for whatever reason, I urge you to clearly label these missions.
[/ QUOTE ]
Publish one mission of the Arc, get people to run it since it's listed as "short", get the reviews/rates, then add in the later missions by editing.
By doing longer arcs, you have less of a shot of getting casuals to run/rate the thing, since they show up under "long/very long".
I ran into something ugly. I'm not quite sure how to talk about it without identifying information, but the point of the arc was that your old enemies tried to kill you. It had quite the spectacular EB at the end. It was /Devices with... some sort of mental control set, not sure which. At one point I had four named powers on me, plus was standing on caltrops (so Slowed with -Fly.) I think I was Blinded, Immobilized, Confused and Held.
It _looked_ like five named powers on me, because I was in Personal Force Field so I also had Cannot Affect Others (or whatever it's called) showing.
That was... umm, fun. Yeah. We should do it again sometime, but my SG is calling, gotta go.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
Publish one mission of the Arc, get people to run it since it's listed as "short", get the reviews/rates, then add in the later missions by editing.
By doing longer arcs, you have less of a shot of getting casuals to run/rate the thing, since they show up under "long/very long".
[/ QUOTE ]
That's essentially bait-and-switch though. You're not really offering what you claim to be. IMHO, authors who do this without warning deserve to be downrated.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the start of the mission, because I found it humorous to be able to beat up satirical versions of a prolific forum poster. After defeating the 43rd black gargoyle however, it started to get a bit old and the mission had little else to recommend it, it seemed like a one trick pony. I could potentially enjoy the arc, but it would need to work on more than that one level.
[/ QUOTE ]
but some things never get old.
The only 2 things I've really hated so far was:
an EB with regen. My tanker's health and his health didn't drop. I just gave up after a few minutes.
A mission filled with elec blast enemies. Every one of them. My endurance was gone in the second fight and they weren't killing me but I couldn't do anything.
[ QUOTE ]
Bad Thing #1: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #2: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #3: Giving Force Field set to an EB who appears in the arc three times!
Seriously, spending the entire fight either in Detention or having Force Bolt spammed at you is just going to lead to your players Rage-quitting and giving you a low rating.
[/ QUOTE ]
This almost sounds like a canon story-arc redside .
Let's Dance!
I've been running 0 star missions almost exclusively, as there are so many, and there obviously must be more than a few in there that are really good. Here are a few tip-offs to ones that should be skipped:
1. The mission summary is blank or full of mis-spellings
2. The mission summary says just "kill all <blank>" or "farm mission"
3. The mission contact wasn't chosen (just the generic green hologram)
4. The mission summary is all about some popular movie, comic book, or TV characters (Last night, I helped Luke Skywalker fight Darth Vader in one mission.)
5. The mission summary goes into GREAT detail about some kind of fantasy society at war with some other fantasy-type faction. I've found that the more background that needs to be explained BEFORE even starting the mission, the more convoluted the mission becomes. ("Wait, what am I trying to do again? Is that the guy, or is it the other guy who I need to watch out for?")
Please try my arcs:
Arc# 63910 "Why Do Bad Girls Like Bad Boys?" (length=Long, levels 40+)
Arc# 401500 "How to Be a Successful Professional Criminal" (length=Very Long, levels 1-10)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bad Thing #1: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #2: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #3: Giving Force Field set to an EB who appears in the arc three times!
Seriously, spending the entire fight either in Detention or having Force Bolt spammed at you is just going to lead to your players Rage-quitting and giving you a low rating.
[/ QUOTE ]
This almost sounds like a canon story-arc redside .
[/ QUOTE ]
Blue side too.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Publish one mission of the Arc, get people to run it since it's listed as "short", get the reviews/rates, then add in the later missions by editing.
By doing longer arcs, you have less of a shot of getting casuals to run/rate the thing, since they show up under "long/very long".
[/ QUOTE ]
That's essentially bait-and-switch though. You're not really offering what you claim to be. IMHO, authors who do this without warning deserve to be downrated.
[/ QUOTE ]
And how are you going to tell who is doing what? Are you going to keep a personal list of how many missions each arc has so that they can be downgraded when they add more stuff in?
It may also be that they want to get the first part of their arc out the door and get some feedback while they decide which direction to take the next couple of missions. There's really no point in making a 5-mission arc and going through all that work if what you are doing in the first mission is not all that good.
[ QUOTE ]
Bad Thing #1: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #2: Giving Force Field set to an EB.
Bad Thing #3: Giving Force Field set to an EB who appears in the arc three times!
Seriously, spending the entire fight either in Detention or having Force Bolt spammed at you is just going to lead to your players Rage-quitting and giving you a low rating.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you played my mish. I fixed a lot of the bugs. It would seem that at some point between my last test and your run through, all the enemies from one faction save the bosses and EB/AVs were whiped out...
Also now that guy shouldn't have detention until the second to last mission.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Publish one mission of the Arc, get people to run it since it's listed as "short", get the reviews/rates, then add in the later missions by editing.
By doing longer arcs, you have less of a shot of getting casuals to run/rate the thing, since they show up under "long/very long".
[/ QUOTE ]
That's essentially bait-and-switch though. You're not really offering what you claim to be. IMHO, authors who do this without warning deserve to be downrated.
[/ QUOTE ]
And how are you going to tell who is doing what? Are you going to keep a personal list of how many missions each arc has so that they can be downgraded when they add more stuff in?
[/ QUOTE ]
All I'm saying is, if the story's not finished, say so in the mission description, don't sucker me into evaluating a story by making it seem complete when it isn't. Otherwise my play experience is full of nothing but half-finished stuff.
So yeah, if a story's not done yet I'm going to rate it poorly and cause fewer people down the line to give valid feedback on that mission. Do it enough and I might get a bad taste in my mouth regarding that author and avoid their content in the future even if it's now finished.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
Since Mod8 closed the previous thread based upon the title, and seems amicable to opening this subject under a new heading, I've taken the liberty of making a new thread in a more appropriate forum.
If you have critical feedback about a mission arc that should be proverbially taken behind the woodshed and put out of its misery, please feel free to post ere. This is not so much to razz authors, but more importantly, to learn from mistakes in order to build better arcs.
Enjoy!