LOOK A DEAD HORSE!!!!!
Beat It.... Just Beat It...
This has been suggested before and at one time was an active dev project. During COV beta and after it launched as Issue 6 switching sides was actively discussed by the devs as an on going project. During this time several planning details where discussed. With the release of issue 7 the devs took switching sides off of the table. While some people hold that it was due to balance issues between the archetypes the devs themselves indicated it was put on hod for technical reasons.
Looking at the various mechanics and things that the devs have stated since the technical reason for the hold up has to be the patron badge. With Issue 7 the level 41 - 50 COV content was released including the patron badges and the patron powers tied directly to the badges. The mechanics of COX do not allow easy removal of a badge and since patron powers are directly unlocked by having the badge this proved a problem. Positron has indicated that they don't want patron powers hero side so this indicates that until the badge issue was fixed no side switching could be done.
With Issue 13 the badge issue has been resolved, how patron powers are awarded is no longer as directly tied to the patron badge. Also the devs have made noises that could be interpreted as indicating renewed life to this project. They haven't come right out and said so, more that they indicated several old back burnered and shelved projects are being looked at and worked on. Since side switching fits into this category and the badge problem appears to have been resolved speculation is that side switching is one of the projects that have been renewed.
Stated goals for side switching from the deep past when it was discussed.
* It would be a mission/arc that ended with you choosing to save or kill the family of a longbow member. Depending on your actions you would switch sides.
* You couldn't take any influence/infamy with you when you switch.
* If you think you can abuse it they probably have already come up with a way to block it.
* Yes you retain your AT when you switch. ie tankers don't turn into brutes or the like.
* You can switch multiple times.
Logical deductions based on stated goals and dev behavior.
* You will lose all of your enhancements when you switch sides they don't go with you.
* You will be forced into a respecification when you switch sides. This because the devs do not want Patron Powers hero side nor Epic powers villain side. Thus you will respecify your character and have to pick new level 41+ powers.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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* You will be forced into a respecification when you switch sides. This because the devs do not want Patron Powers hero side nor Epic powers villain side. Thus you will respecify your character and have to pick new level 41+ powers.
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This could be a serious issue.
They would have to assign new epics to all of the Villains and Patrons to all of the Heroes. Now they could just apply scrapper/tanker epics ot Brutes, and Blaster/Def to Corrs or something, but I'm not sure how well that would go. It would almost certainly require modification of some powers. The opposite is also true, what Patron Pools do you give hero Archetypes?
Also, what do we do about Epics?
I think Epics should also be allowed to switch sides. Being an Alien or a Soldier in the Arachnos Army doesn't prevent you from having a change of heart.
For Warshades, they are falling back on their old ways.
Peacebringers? Their philosophy has become warped.. the only way for peace on earth is to kill everyone on it. Also, Light is not Good.
For Soldiers and Widows. Arachnos is a cut throat place, and maybe upon realizing how messed up it is, they finally understand why the heroes do what they do. Sometimes, they were simply prisoners who were in the zig and were offered a new life with Arachnos in exchange for their freedom. There are already plenty of Villains gone Good in comic books, so this isn't a serious issue. As for the Uniforms? Let em keep 'em. They've been using that armor or bodysuit for a long time, they're used to it, it helps them in battle. If the player RPs, there's nothing preventing them from taking the Arachnos insignia off of their uniform. In fact, I've seen plenty of heroes running around using the Arachnos symbol on their costumes anyways.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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I'm Sorry, Do You Have Any Way To Back That Up?
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Battlepack, while the amount of flack you've been given is a little overboard, don't be too hasty in disregarding it. Title Casing, which is what you use for titles, has it's place. But when writing regular of sentences in paragraphs, you'll be doing it wrong. No matter how you were taught.
As much as being ridiculed on an internet forum sucks, imagine the suckage of being ridiculed from a potential employer for the way your resume was formatted (assuming you apply for jobs using english). You have my sympathy for the embarrassment, but turn it into a good lesson to be learned.
May your next posting not get so side tracked.
(editted for his own poor formatting)
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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This has been suggested before and at one time was an active dev project. During COV beta and after it launched as Issue 6 switching sides was actively discussed by the devs as an on going project. During this time several planning details where discussed. With the release of issue 7 the devs took switching sides off of the table. While some people hold that it was due to balance issues between the archetypes the devs themselves indicated it was put on hod for technical reasons.
Looking at the various mechanics and things that the devs have stated since the technical reason for the hold up has to be the patron badge. With Issue 7 the level 41 - 50 COV content was released including the patron badges and the patron powers tied directly to the badges. The mechanics of COX do not allow easy removal of a badge and since patron powers are directly unlocked by having the badge this proved a problem. Positron has indicated that they don't want patron powers hero side so this indicates that until the badge issue was fixed no side switching could be done.
With Issue 13 the badge issue has been resolved, how patron powers are awarded is no longer as directly tied to the patron badge. Also the devs have made noises that could be interpreted as indicating renewed life to this project. They haven't come right out and said so, more that they indicated several old back burnered and shelved projects are being looked at and worked on. Since side switching fits into this category and the badge problem appears to have been resolved speculation is that side switching is one of the projects that have been renewed.
Stated goals for side switching from the deep past when it was discussed.
* It would be a mission/arc that ended with you choosing to save or kill the family of a longbow member. Depending on your actions you would switch sides.
* You couldn't take any influence/infamy with you when you switch.
* If you think you can abuse it they probably have already come up with a way to block it.
* Yes you retain your AT when you switch. ie tankers don't turn into brutes or the like.
* You can switch multiple times.
Logical deductions based on stated goals and dev behavior.
* You will lose all of your enhancements when you switch sides they don't go with you.
* You will be forced into a respecification when you switch sides. This because the devs do not want Patron Powers hero side nor Epic powers villain side. Thus you will respecify your character and have to pick new level 41+ powers.
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All that is what makes me hope Side Switching can happen one day. I have several toons that were made to switch to one side or the other.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
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I'm Sorry, Do You Have Any Way To Back That Up?
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Battlepack, while the amount of flack you've been given is a little overboard, don't be too hasty in disregarding it. Title Casing, which is what you use for titles, has it's place. But when writing regular of sentences in paragraphs, you'll be doing it wrong. No matter how you were taught.
As much as being ridiculed on an internet forum sucks, imagine the suckage of being ridiculed from a potential employer for the way your resume was formatted (assuming you apply for jobs using english). You have my sympathy for the embarrassment, but turn it into a good lesson to be learned.
May your next posting not get so side tracked.
(editted for his own poor formatting)
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Again, continously talking about this is just going to spark it up again, so please cease to bring it up.
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This has been suggested before and at one time was an active dev project. During COV beta and after it launched as Issue 6 switching sides was actively discussed by the devs as an on going project. During this time several planning details where discussed. With the release of issue 7 the devs took switching sides off of the table. While some people hold that it was due to balance issues between the archetypes the devs themselves indicated it was put on hod for technical reasons.
Looking at the various mechanics and things that the devs have stated since the technical reason for the hold up has to be the patron badge. With Issue 7 the level 41 - 50 COV content was released including the patron badges and the patron powers tied directly to the badges. The mechanics of COX do not allow easy removal of a badge and since patron powers are directly unlocked by having the badge this proved a problem. Positron has indicated that they don't want patron powers hero side so this indicates that until the badge issue was fixed no side switching could be done.
With Issue 13 the badge issue has been resolved, how patron powers are awarded is no longer as directly tied to the patron badge. Also the devs have made noises that could be interpreted as indicating renewed life to this project. They haven't come right out and said so, more that they indicated several old back burnered and shelved projects are being looked at and worked on. Since side switching fits into this category and the badge problem appears to have been resolved speculation is that side switching is one of the projects that have been renewed.
Stated goals for side switching from the deep past when it was discussed.
* It would be a mission/arc that ended with you choosing to save or kill the family of a longbow member. Depending on your actions you would switch sides.
* You couldn't take any influence/infamy with you when you switch.
* If you think you can abuse it they probably have already come up with a way to block it.
* Yes you retain your AT when you switch. ie tankers don't turn into brutes or the like.
* You can switch multiple times.
Logical deductions based on stated goals and dev behavior.
* You will lose all of your enhancements when you switch sides they don't go with you.
* You will be forced into a respecification when you switch sides. This because the devs do not want Patron Powers hero side nor Epic powers villain side. Thus you will respecify your character and have to pick new level 41+ powers.
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All that is what makes me hope Side Switching can happen one day. I have several toons that were made to switch to one side or the other.
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Same here, I'm an Rper, and it just seems unrealistic that all characters just devote themselves to one or the other and never look back. Also the game would be so much more enjoyable
When City of Villains was released we were told that yes, we would eventually be able to change sides. I made at least one character (villains mostly) based on this assumption. Later on when it was revealed that this would not happen in a timely fashion after all I deleted those characters, but I still remember that the promise was made and not delivered upon. I should have known the worth of a promise made by Jack but back then we didn't know. We just didn't know.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Well does anyone have any ideas as to how we could make this work?
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Well does anyone have any ideas as to how we could make this work?
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Yeah, make all ATs avaialable to both sides when creating your character. Done.
Or......
If you have a lvl 50 villain and a lvl 50 hero, you unlock a new epic AT. Only one per server. You actually can be any AT you want from either side and make this character as you niormally would. The difference is this character would be called a Double Agent and be able to switch sides in CoOp zones.
Well I'm looking for something where you can take a toon of either side and have them switch, but that would also be pretty cool. Makes sense too, but not what most people are looking for
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Yeah, make all ATs avaialable to both sides when creating your character. Done.
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This.
This is all I want, honestly. I think the villain AT's are pretty dang fun to play. Too bad I absolutely detest the villain content.
A lot of players will say that the villain content is the better of the two sides, but it's all a matter of taste. I dislike it and therefore don't want to play it. I want to play Brutes and MM's and Doms, but I just can't stand the content.
I try and play villains from time to time, but after a mission or two I just get burned out and switch to a hero and play for a while.
Giving us the ability to make whatever AT we want on whatever side we want would be such a boon to me. For the people who want to keep things unique to each side, make it so that when you want to create the epics, Khelds would HAVE to start as heroes, SoA's would HAVE to start as villains. Side switching would allow them to eventually get to the other side, but that'd be later in their career.
Will it ever happen? I hope so.
Gimme my SMASH heroside, please. 
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
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Well does anyone have any ideas as to how we could make this work?
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I'm sure the developers have given it much more thought than I have, but let me try to illustrate the scope of the problem as I see it:
1. There is, at present, no tool in the game for removing badges and contacts from a character, once earned. Any system of side-switching is going to have to overcome or work around the hurdle of how certain achievements are labeled. The matter of level-dependent badges would have to be worked out (for instance, if your level 35 Mastermind switches over to Paragon City, should he even be given the level 20 "Defender of Truth" badge that all Heroes get?
2. The current implementation of trading prohibits the exchange between Heroes and Villains of any Influence, Infamy, Enhancements, IOs, Recipes, Inspirations, and everything else. The markets are separate by design. (Whether this is appropriate is not a matter I will debate here.) In order to permit side-switching I would expect one of two things to happen. Either a) the markets are opened up to exchange between both sides and full trading between Heroes and Villains allowed, or b) side-switching would strip the player of any tradable goods and unslot all of his Enhancements currently in place. Without b) then side-switching becomes a de facto trading mechanism: carry as much as you can, hop to the other side, dump it on the market, repeat.
3. The character would have to be booted out of the SG or VG he's presently in, as well as any team he's on, which means he'd have to be kicked out of any associated chat channels.
4. There will almost certainly be a minimum level for side-switching. Logically, if you could swap over from Hero to Villain at level 1, they'd just open up the Archetypes to both sides, right?
5. There will probably be some kind of Task/Strike Force associated with side-switching, which presents a problem all its own. How do you make sure that all the players on that team really want to switch sides? Given that it would probably strip them of all their possessions it would have potential for griefing unless the Task/Strike Force technology is used. (Example: if side-switching were a regular mission, you could try to lure somebody on your team and not tell them that it's the side-switching mission.)
6. Access to doors, trams, ferries, helicopters, Pocket D, bases, and other inter-zone travel would have to be rigorously tested so that you could not (for instance) side-switch and then use the Valkyrie Pack Mission Teleporter to zap your "heroic villain" from Steel Canyon to your mission door in Sharkhead Isle.
7. Buffs and debuffs and mezzes of all kinds would probably be stripped away as you switched sides, particularly Confuse. (Cast Confuse on somebody and get them to switch sides... suddenly your Corruptor is a Hero, but he's Confused, so he can lay waste to newbies in Atlas Park...)
8. Side-switching would almost certainly not take place in any PVP zone. The cooperatives zones, however, seem like good candidates: Midnighter Club, Pocket D, Rikti War Zone.
9. Your first contacts are given to you for free when you begin, but almost every other contact from that point is given by your other contacts. If switching sides means you lose all your old contacts, there must be some way to grant the side-switched character access into this self-perpetuating chain. Content for the side-switched character would have to be created, probably in the form of a "Welcome to Paragon City, you untrustworthy turncoat, here's how you can prove your loyalty to us." This is more difficult than it sounds; in order to dispense a mission to your Paragon City Brute, that contact is going to need to a) be easy to get to, no matter what level you are; b) have missions you can do at a wide range of levels (eg, against Lost/Rikti, Council, or COT), c) give you access to one or more ordinary contacts fairly quickly.
So we begin to see the scope of the problem. A side-switching mission would probably require a minimum level, be Task-Force or Strike-Force based, have some kind of independent confirmation window for every player, and would carefully have to strip away all Hero-Villain identifiers, badges, contacts, missions, rewards, possibly accolades, and buffs/debuffs prior to switching over.
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I'm Sorry, Do You Have Any Way To Back That Up?
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Battlepack, while the amount of flack you've been given is a little overboard, don't be too hasty in disregarding it. Title Casing, which is what you use for titles, has it's place. But when writing regular of sentences in paragraphs, you'll be doing it wrong. No matter how you were taught.
As much as being ridiculed on an internet forum sucks, imagine the suckage of being ridiculed from a potential employer for the way your resume was formatted (assuming you apply for jobs using english). You have my sympathy for the embarrassment, but turn it into a good lesson to be learned.
May your next posting not get so side tracked.
(editted for his own poor formatting)
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Again, continously talking about this is just going to spark it up again, so please cease to bring it up.
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The irony of this post cracks me up.
The OP feels that this topic is a dead horse that needs to be dropped, and yet he wants to keep beating the dead horse topic called side switching.
ROFLOL! 
This one again!! YAY!! I love my idea!~!! Well this one yours but I thought of it too so uh well, calll the Deves and beg them... HEY DEVE!!!! OVER HERE!! ! PLEASE DO IT!!!!
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1. There is, at present, no tool in the game for removing badges and contacts from a character, once earned. Any system of side-switching is going to have to overcome or work around the hurdle of how certain achievements are labeled. The matter of level-dependent badges would have to be worked out (for instance, if your level 35 Mastermind switches over to Paragon City, should he even be given the level 20 "Defender of Truth" badge that all Heroes get?
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Why change them? When you reach 10/20/30/40/50, you earn the level badge for the side you're on at the time. Some switching would have inherent benefits -- heroes can earn the Atlas Medallion accolade at a low level, while the equivalent accolade for villains requires participating in the LRSF, while villains can get the Demonic accolade at a low level but the hero equivalent is... painful... to earn.
There would need to be some mechanism to handle Ancillary/Patron pools; a character that switched sides would be able to continue to select powers from their chosen pool, but if they ever did a respec, they'd have to drop the pool; the devs would have to make Ancillary pools for the villain ATs and Patron pools for the hero ATs; a hero turned villain would still have to do a patron arc to get access to the patron pools. And I expect that it's here that we'd see the maximum amount of screaming, depending on the way that the new pools got created.
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3. The character would have to be booted out of the SG or VG he's presently in, as well as any team he's on, which means he'd have to be kicked out of any associated chat channels.
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See #5 below.
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4. There will almost certainly be a minimum level for side-switching. Logically, if you could swap over from Hero to Villain at level 1, they'd just open up the Archetypes to both sides, right?
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They could very well do both. If the devs implement side-switching, there's no real game-mechanic reason why it would be horribly unbalancing to, say, play a level-3 Brute in Atlas Park.
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5. There will probably be some kind of Task/Strike Force associated with side-switching, which presents a problem all its own. How do you make sure that all the players on that team really want to switch sides? Given that it would probably strip them of all their possessions it would have potential for griefing unless the Task/Strike Force technology is used. (Example: if side-switching were a regular mission, you could try to lure somebody on your team and not tell them that it's the side-switching mission.)
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Now you're inventing a problem that doesn't exist, unless you really believe that when a team finishes a Respec trial all the team members are immediately forced to start a respec. Completing the prerequisite for side-switching earns you a token that you have to go to a specific contact to claim, just as you do for earned respecs. When you claim the side-switch, it could be handled just like a server transfer -- the character is taken out of the side they're on, losing any group membership, and then stuck back in on the other side. Since you would have to be logged out for the process to complete, that would take care of any team membership issues.
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6. Access to doors, trams, ferries, helicopters, Pocket D, bases, and other inter-zone travel would have to be rigorously tested so that you could not (for instance) side-switch and then use the Valkyrie Pack Mission Teleporter to zap your "heroic villain" from Steel Canyon to your mission door in Sharkhead Isle.
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All your missions except for RWZ and Cimerora missions would have to get blown away; you should keep your contacts from the other side, with the devs adding some kind of rejection text for a contact to use if you call them and you're not on the right side to get missions from them, the same way Daedalus and Sister Airlia (sp?) do if you're on the wrong side and try to talk to them.
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7. Buffs and debuffs and mezzes of all kinds would probably be stripped away as you switched sides, particularly Confuse. (Cast Confuse on somebody and get them to switch sides... suddenly your Corruptor is a Hero, but he's Confused, so he can lay waste to newbies in Atlas Park...)
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Making the side-switching work via the code that handles server transfers would address that, since you'd be logged off the character while the transfer occurs, and the transfer generally takes long enough for buffs/mezzes to fade.
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8. Side-switching would almost certainly not take place in any PVP zone. The cooperatives zones, however, seem like good candidates: Midnighter Club, Pocket D, Rikti War Zone.
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See #5 above; having to go to a particular contact in order to get transferred from one side to the other would let the devs control where it happens. A contact in the Agincourt Longbow base in Nerva would be the obvious place to put the villain-to-hero transfer contact; given that there's a redside mission that sends you to a Boomtown in reconstruction, putting the hero-to-villain contact in Boomtown would be a decent choice.
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9. Your first contacts are given to you for free when you begin, but almost every other contact from that point is given by your other contacts. If switching sides means you lose all your old contacts, there must be some way to grant the side-switched character access into this self-perpetuating chain. Content for the side-switched character would have to be created, probably in the form of a "Welcome to Paragon City, you untrustworthy turncoat, here's how you can prove your loyalty to us." This is more difficult than it sounds; in order to dispense a mission to your Paragon City Brute, that contact is going to need to a) be easy to get to, no matter what level you are; b) have missions you can do at a wide range of levels (eg, against Lost/Rikti, Council, or COT), c) give you access to one or more ordinary contacts fairly quickly.
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When you transfer, you keep all your old contacts, but they stop talking to you (see #6 above). The game mechanics would automatically give you a detective or broker contact when you entered a zone, so you'd be able to do radio/paper missions to start setting up your contact list. If that means you're pretty limited for a while, that's what you get for changing sides; it takes a while for people to trust you. If you switch sides before level 5 or 6, you'd automatically get the first-tier contact that any starting character gets.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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This one again!! YAY!! I love my idea!~!! Well this one yours but I thought of it too so uh well, calll the Deves and beg them... HEY DEVE!!!! OVER HERE!! ! PLEASE DO IT!!!!
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... 
Oh, wait... /power
Virtue - @Kabuto & @Kabutops
Main heroes:
Dark/Psy/Psy Defender
Grav/Storm/Power Controller
Ice/Storm/Ice Controller
Plant/Rad/Psi Controller
Earth/Rad/Earth Controller
Main Villains:
Ice/Cold/Sharks Corruptor
Elec/Shield Brute
Fortunata/Soul Widow
I vote no. Again. And again and again and again. If you want a villain, make a villain. If you want a hero, make a hero. RP it however you want.
I still like the idea of switching sides, it'd make for a great story oppurtunity,add some fun diversity on both sides, and seems to be very doable.
I have been wanting this for a long time
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I vote no. Again. And again and again and again. If you want a villain, make a villain. If you want a hero, make a hero. RP it however you want.
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O_o
Umm...
What if you want a Stalker but don't want to be a villian?
What if you want a Tanker but don't want to be a hero?
That's kind of the issue. No ammount of rp is going to change the fact that heroic Stalker you have is automaticly a villian and you won't be able to hang out with your friends on hero side, join their supergroup, etc, etc...
When someone says just get a scrapper and give them stealth/invisibilty. You don't have a stalker, you have a scrapper with stealth/invisibility.
You feel like having a piece of chicken for lunch. Why would you pick up that bit of ground beef shaped like a piece of chicken instead? Because you can season it like you would piece of chicken?
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I vote no. Again. And again and again and again. If you want a villain, make a villain. If you want a hero, make a hero. RP it however you want.
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Because nobody ever switches sides in the comic books, right? O.o
Seriously, the Heel Face Revolving Door is a pretty essential part of the comic book genre, and the fact that it's not yet implemented in the game is disappointing.
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For Warshades, they are falling back on their old ways.
Peacebringers? Their philosophy has become warped.. the only way for peace on earth is to kill everyone on it. Also, Light is not Good.
For Soldiers and Widows. Arachnos is a cut throat place, and maybe upon realizing how messed up it is, they finally understand why the heroes do what they do. Sometimes, they were simply prisoners who were in the zig and were offered a new life with Arachnos in exchange for their freedom. There are already plenty of Villains gone Good in comic books, so this isn't a serious issue. As for the Uniforms? Let em keep 'em. They've been using that armor or bodysuit for a long time, they're used to it, it helps them in battle. If the player RPs, there's nothing preventing them from taking the Arachnos insignia off of their uniform. In fact, I've seen plenty of heroes running around using the Arachnos symbol on their costumes anyways.
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While I would love to be able to switch sides any number of my toons, this sort of stuff can be described in your character biography. Get the mindset and story written. Play it however you choose.
It's what we're stuck with until the Devs do otherwise.
Another Villain trying to jump to City of Heroes because they feel cheated out of content?
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Fretting Over Its Possible Demise Once CO Gets Here, And Really, CoX Needs A BIG Change If Its Going To Survive. Therefore I Think It Would Be Insanely Cool If Cox Had The Ability To Switch Your Character From Good To Evil,(Hero To Villain).
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The opposite of this.
and on a side note
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While I understand that the way I type could be confusing, and I'm sorry if it is
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I dont suppose youve ever met brewha?
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.