Switching Sides

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Speaking of searching and repeat posts, my current favorite take on any kind of side-switching is the related amoral AT idea as suggested by Kerinna here.

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Also! Kerrina is now Rachelthulu >.> For those who were unaware, before. =-3

-Rachel-

I really, really, really hope side-switching is NOT put in the game. The balance issues would be catastrophic, and certain AT's would be ignored, especially dominators. Everyone would bring their fire/kin red-side and dominators would be completely irrelevant.

Actually... Read my suggestion (linked in Signature) and see how you like it. I think it's fairly balanced?

-Rachel-

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Well does anyone have any ideas as to how we could make this work?

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Yeah, make all ATs avaialable to both sides when creating your character. Done.

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This.

But existing character side-switching is coming I think. I think the devs are breaking down many of the barriers between the game. Hopefully, it won't be just side switching, but full on Open World. Go where you want, make what you want.

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I really, really, really hope side-switching is NOT put in the game. The balance issues would be catastrophic, and certain AT's would be ignored, especially dominators. Everyone would bring their fire/kin red-side and dominators would be completely irrelevant.

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I'm waiting for side switching to come to the game just so I can play Doms again.

I dislike the villain content, but really like the AT's. If I could have a Dom heroside, I'd have no problem making a few and having fun doing it.

Probably just me though.

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I dislike the villain content, but really like the AT's. If I could have a Dom heroside, I'd have no problem making a few and having fun doing it.

Probably just me though.

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You don't like villain content, but villain content is the same as hero content. 95% of the bad guys you fight are the same NPC's you fight in Paragon City. You're just playing a hero for Recluse using different AT's.

Yeah, it's just you.

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You don't like villain content, but villain content is the same as hero content. 95% of the bad guys you fight are the same NPC's you fight in Paragon City. You're just playing a hero for Recluse using different AT's.

Yeah, it's just you.

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Villains don't have access to hero missions, TF's or zones. So ummm, just how is villain content the "same" as hero content?

Granted, mechanically it is. Defeat foes, collect XP, level up and get new powers/slots. Rinse and repeat until you hit level 50.

I played a villain to 50 (a Dom) and I just can't bring myself to go through the villain content again, it just wasn't fun. I can't say I'm a role player, but I do read the mission info and use it to get prepared for the mission. The villain stuff just doesn't "work" for me.

On the flip side, I've leveled 11 heroes to 50 in the last 4 plus years, and I still enjoy heroside content. For me, the aesthetics are more to my liking heroside. It's a personal choice.

One last thing. I'm of the opinion that having more options is a good thing. With some upcoming MMO's giving some probably serious competition to this game, opening up the 10 basic AT's to be playable on whatever side the player chooses seems like a good idea.

I do think that the Arachnos and Kheldian AT's should be locked to their respective sides at the beginning. Though if the option ever comes up to allow current characters the ability to switch over, they'd have to be allowed to switch then.

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Well does anyone have any ideas as to how we could make this work?

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Yeah, make all ATs avaialable to both sides when creating your character. Done.

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This.

But existing character side-switching is coming I think. I think the devs are breaking down many of the barriers between the game. Hopefully, it won't be just side switching, but full on Open World. Go where you want, make what you want.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm in support of this idea.

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Hopefully, it won't be just side switching, but full on Open World. Go where you want, make what you want.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm in support of this idea.

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I'm not, because it'd either mean massive immersion breaking or all-world PVP, and I'm very much in favor of neither.

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Hopefully, it won't be just side switching, but full on Open World. Go where you want, make what you want.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm in support of this idea.

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I'm not, because it'd either mean massive immersion breaking or all-world PVP, and I'm very much in favor of neither.

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Immersion is a meaningless word people in MMOs bring up when they don't like an idea but don't have an argument. Immersion would prohibit dozens of things in the game. But most pointedly, it is not immersive that heroes can't go to the Rogue Isles and villains can't go to Paragon. The only thing stopping us is the game mechanics. But it doesn't make any sense.

This very patently dishonest argument that Open World must equal open PvP is trotted out by people who for reasons their own want to keep the sides separate. But like many other systems that people swore would "break immersion" like crafting, loot, etc. two weeks after they added this no one would be talking about it anymore.

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You don't like villain content, but villain content is the same as hero content. 95% of the bad guys you fight are the same NPC's you fight in Paragon City. You're just playing a hero for Recluse using different AT's.

Yeah, it's just you.

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Villains don't have access to hero missions, TF's or zones. So ummm, just how is villain content the "same" as hero content?

Granted, mechanically it is. Defeat foes, collect XP, level up and get new powers/slots. Rinse and repeat until you hit level 50.

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(Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with prefering one side over the other.)

I'm not just talking about the mechanics, It's the same darn NPC's. Sure the missions have different names and contacts, and they forced all the opponents into half the zones but,

Villains and Heros both fight:

Hellions
Clockwork
Skulls
Family
Council
Tsoo
Trolls
Banished Pantheon
Circle of Thorns
Devouring Earth
The Lost
Vahzilok
Carnies
Crey
Warriors
Malta
Sky Raiders
Rikti
Arachnos
Outcasts
Nemesis
Rularuu
Freakshow
Cimerer-whatevers
Red Caps
Shivans
Ghosts
Witches
Fir Bolg
Snow Beasts
Longbow
Vindicators
Nictus/Void Hunters



Do you see a pattern here? The Rogue Islands have the same dang criminals to contend with that Paragon City does. Claiming that the red faction are villains is semantics.

What do villains have that's original?

Snakes
Consortium Guards
Goldbricks
Luddites
Slag Golems
Corolax
Dockworkers
Wailers
Wyvern
Arachnoids
Legacy of the Chain
Cap Gremlins
Knives of Artemis

Sorry, but it has always seemed to me that the devs took the easy way out when making CoV. Whay create something new when they can cut and paste stuff from CoH.

Actually, Forbin... I think it was less a copy-paste job and more a matter of verisimilitude and continuing storylines and interactions...

Though in some cases it makes -0- sense.

Trolls in the Isles is fine. They come from someone taking too much of a certain drug.

Council makes sense: A European Organization attempting world conquest.

Tsoo are fine: Thieves, Pimps, Murderers, and Slavers going to a lawless area to do what they do best.

Circle of Thorns are fighting against their ancient foes, the Mu. Who are apparently indigenous to the Isles?

But the Hellions and Skulls? Vahzilok?Warriors and Outcasts? Those are Streetgangs and a Mad Scientist's experiments. They shouldn't be a global phenomenon in their straight form. You don't have American street gangs in Europe, for example. So why would Skulls and Hellions be in the Etoille?

And the Heroes and Villains both -now- fight almost everything identically. Putting the Longbow and Vindicators on that list was a bit of a stretch, really... Especially since you didn't put Corallax on it (which are in the Hollows)

But yes. I'll once again suggest that if there is a 'Vigilante' designation or side-switching designation: Use the one I worked on.

If it's just opening all classes to all sides I'm fine with that, too. *shrugs* Though I know some people are vehemently against both.

-Rachel-

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Actually, Forbin... I think it was less a copy-paste job and more a matter of verisimilitude and continuing storylines and interactions...

Though in some cases it makes -0- sense.

Trolls in the Isles is fine. They come from someone taking too much of a certain drug.

Council makes sense: A European Organization attempting world conquest.

Tsoo are fine: Thieves, Pimps, Murderers, and Slavers going to a lawless area to do what they do best.

Circle of Thorns are fighting against their ancient foes, the Mu. Who are apparently indigenous to the Isles?

But the Hellions and Skulls? Vahzilok?Warriors and Outcasts? Those are Streetgangs and a Mad Scientist's experiments. They shouldn't be a global phenomenon in their straight form. You don't have American street gangs in Europe, for example. So why would Skulls and Hellions be in the Etoille?

And the Heroes and Villains both -now- fight almost everything identically. Putting the Longbow and Vindicators on that list was a bit of a stretch, really... Especially since you didn't put Corallax on it (which are in the Hollows)

But yes. I'll once again suggest that if there is a 'Vigilante' designation or side-switching designation: Use the one I worked on.

If it's just opening all classes to all sides I'm fine with that, too. *shrugs* Though I know some people are vehemently against both.

-Rachel-

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There are Corolax in the Hollows? Thanks for the info. I haven't been in there in years.

Anyway my point is that villains should be fighting good guys not doing the heroes jobs for them. Most of the villain content is spent being a cop. We should be using those npc's as allies, and getting unique evil mission arcs from them.

Oh as to the gangs, sadly in RL there is international precedent for gangs to be where they are. The Central American gang Mara Salvatrucha 13, or MS-13 is just one example, other examples are our own 1 percenter motorcycle gangs with chapters around the world.

Well, it's happening, City of Heroes Rogue is coming soon. I can't wait. And they called me crazy for being a horse beater

You are crazy for beating a dead horse, and deluded if you think your post had anything to do with the creation of CoH Going Rogue.

Just the little information they've released is a clear indication they have been working on it for over a year if not longer. If it has anything concerning power customization like some people are speculating, then they've been working on this for 5 years. Positron told us during the Anniversary event that the devs are already working on Issue 18. They won't release that until sometime in 2010.

CoH Going Rogue probably became a feasible project back when NCSoft got control of the game from Cryptic.

Alright. I'm impressed. In that short amount of time, you went from:

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(By The Way There's Nothing Wrong With The Way I Write,I Was Raised Writing Like This, And Myself And Views Should Not Be Discriminated Against Because Of It)

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to:

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Well, it's happening, City of Heroes Rogue is coming soon. I can't wait. And they called me crazy for being a horse beater

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Your mother would be proud.

*Giggle*

I really do like the idea of switching... However I hope that it is not just allowing us to rogue island... I rather just be allowed to switch in the alternate zone... If that is not the case then 2 thumbs down for me cause I have already did all hero content most of villians contect... so here I can do it again with just switch my heroes and villians around.. sorry not exciting.... we really need some change up on content...

From the information released about CoH Going Rogue.

City of Heroes Going Rogue officially opens the "mirror universe" of Praetoria and an all-new alignment system that explores the shades of gray that lie between Heroes and Villains. For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, Enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles and Villains to experience Paragon City.


There will be a completely new universe that both heroes and villains can explore and in the process may find themselves switching over. Good becoming evil and evil becoming good.