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CP and group energy flight really give me the impression the devs were like "huh, let's just throw this crap in there because we don't know what else to fill the powerset with."
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That's how I've always viewed the design of Peacebringers.
Warshades at least feel unique among the archetypes. PBs feel slapped together with no real effort at all.
[/ QUOTE ]Is there a single PB power that isn't a very close clone of another powerset's power? I'm trying to think of one. I mean, Solar Flare isn't quite the same as Foot Stomp, because it has a higher magnitude.
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lol.. Dwarf and Nova..
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Copied and tweaked versions of WS dwarf and nova. 
Be well, people of CoH.
WOW!
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Pulsar isn't even in the same class as Flash. I would say the powers in anemic. No, the power is anemic. Warshade's Gravitic Emanation is better by light years.
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Pulsar isn't even in the same class as Flash. I would say the powers in anemic. No, the power is anemic. Warshade's Gravitic Emanation is better by light years.
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Indeed.
Yeah, the only PB power I can think of that was mostly unique when the set came out is Photon Seekers.
WS would be Stygian Circle, Gravitic Emanation, Unchain Essence and Dark Extraction. Eclipse is really Energy Absorption w/ res instead of defense.
-- War
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Blocking us from a power like air superiority is not forgivable.
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This still is an issue I see...been away from the game for a few months so back in catching up on what is going on.
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Issue 13 had an effect not expected at all, the enforcement to take at least the dwarf form, if not all forms.
From Castle :
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Human form has such strong flexibility, control, heal and protective benefits with mez protection that giving up those benefits for the minute bonus to mez resist and/resistance that Dwarf form provided under these circumstances simply was not worth the power, slot and animation time costs. Why would you give up a better attack chain, access to Stamina, Hasten, Tough and Weave for a small benefit? Almost no one would.
In order to maintain Dwarf Form as a viable option I pretty much have to disallow self status protection in human form.
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Anybody else have a gag reflex in response to this quote.
The complaint about lack of Human form mez protection is because being forced to rely on Dwarf for mez protection means giving up the "strong flexibility, control, heal and protective benefits" of human form. You can't use them when mezzed, or in Dwarf.
And this part "Why would you give up a better attack chain, access to Stamina, Hasten, Tough and Weave for a small benefit?" 
. The reason I took Haste is because I spend so much time in Dwarf. The power effect carries over to Dwarf, and the effect is necessary in order to have an attack chain. Without it, it's "Attack, attack, wait, wait." Using Dwarf as a form of Mez Protection almost makes Haste a mandatory power pick. I didn't know making Power Pool choices nearly mandatory was seen as viable game design.
One of the major problems when it comes to Dwarf form as mez protection is that it's not like the one power that other AT's (Tanks, Scrappers etc.) need to take for Mez Protection, it's more like 5. That's because not only do you need to slot White Dwarf/Black Dwarf, you also need to slot the powers you get when you take the Dwarf form. The end result needing to slot these powers and the lack of flexability that occurs when you shift to Dwarf is that many players don't see taking Dwarf From as a viable power choice now. They'd rather load up on Break Frees.
If giving mez protection to Human form makes Dwarf so redundant, maybe it's time to look at Dwarf form.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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One of the major problems when it comes to Dwarf form as mez protection is that it's not like the one power that other AT's (Tanks, Scrappers etc.) need to take for Mez Protection, it's more like 5. That's because not only do you need to slot White Dwarf/Black Dwarf, you also need to slot the powers you get when you take the Dwarf form. The end result needing to slot these powers and the lack of flexability that occurs when you shift to Dwarf is that many players don't see taking Dwarf From as a viable power choice now. They'd rather load up on Break Frees.
If giving mez protection to Human form makes Dwarf so redundant, maybe it's time to look at Dwarf form.
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Very well said. This is one of the most convincing and sensible arguments I've seen for human mez protection. Castle, are you reading this? 
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
At the time I pointed out that the supposedly-intended original benefit and use of dwarf form - tanking - is not diminished by the human form having mez protection. The dwarf form would still be a far superior meat-shield to the human form due to its bonus hitpoints, higher base resists, and aggro control abilities.
If dwarf form's attractiveness really is that diminished by it that dwarf form needs the additional 'incentive' of mez mitigation as a reason to even take, then I'd say the problem lies with tanking as role/concept, not with the dwarf form power vs the human form ones.
TL;DR version - if human mez protection really makes dwarf redundant, it only does so to the extent that tanking in general is redundant in the game.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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TL;DR version - if human mez protection really makes dwarf redundant, it only does so to the extent that tanking in general is redundant in the game.
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Another good reason, I think. It's one of the reasons I've never been able to really stick with a Tanker - I just don't feel important on a team. 
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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If Peacebringers want to teleport, they can take Dwarf. If Warshades want to fly, they can take Nova.
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And what if on my Tri-Form PB I want to take a useful power like recall friend that I would actually use.
Rather than some stupid shield or human form attack that I don't have enough slots to make useful.
Bottom Line for me: PEacebringers and Warshades need a standard Mag 2 Mez protection added to their Teir 1 Secondary POWer, the Auto-Resistance, just like the SoA's have in their Tier 1 secondary powers. Granted, the SoA's get an upgrade....but then thats what the Dwarf form would be in place of. For Solobility...mag 2 stands against pretty much anything that isn't stacked. No knockback Protection though, make that be the one hole. I'll compromise since we do get Karma, steadfast and Zephyr (Acro for the cheap fix).
In teams, MAg 2 will still be obsolete since more mobs = more mez in most enemy groups (CoT, Tsoo, Carnies etc), so lets not pretend a MAg two protection is seriously overpowered. Want more protection than that? Go to Dwarf.
Nova will still outdamage Human form by far, and Dwarf will still be more tankish by far, human will be balanced in between.
Its that or bring back the Items of POwer and Cathedral of Pain TF, let us get the MEz protection IoP. Face it Devs, the people want what they want.
Hits the play button on previously recorded volumes on the subject of self stats protection.
Wanting and neededing are two completely different things and Khelds don't need self status protection per the devs and other making the journey 1-50 without it. It would be nice to have but not needed.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Aside from the necro quote pull up of Castle's "Partial" reasoning I had no real issue with some of the stuff you said from your prospective.
On the otherhand things like you need to slot dwarf, you have to have hasten etc... Those things are choices not mandatory and Khelds are all about choices and sacrifices.
An example is I have tri-forms, but the Dwarfs are not slotted other than the original slot. I spend the majority of time in human and nova forms, but will pop to dwarf on occassion. When I do, I still kill stuff just at a slower rate if I choose to stay in dwarf the entire fight(VERY super rare) and this is all solo with no boost from enhancements or the inherent.
If this is going to regress back into the Castle made a mistake Khelds NEED self status protection, ok I'll see you later cause that deadhorse has been beaten into an unrecognizable blob.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Hi WhiteHotFlash.
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If Peacebringers want to teleport, they can take Dwarf. If Warshades want to fly, they can take Nova.
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PB's don't want teleport for teleport, they want it for tp friend.
Now.... why is it that a warshade can go into the Stealth pool when they already can get....... From Umbral Aura:
Shadow Cloak and Nebulous Form
Interesting.... no?
I sure would love to get hover for my shade. (and AS)
BC 
On the issue of Status Protection post-Issue 13, I would say the only change necessary would be change the inherent bonus from 1 mag to 2 mag per controller/dom player. Do not give 2 mag inherent into the secondary tier 1 power, however do add some Mez Resistance (duration reduction) to the toggle shields so that the more you have one the less effective the mez is.
I think what annoys me is the basic idea of Dwarf Form as mez protection.
To put things in perspective: Start with the Stone Armor Powerset, remove Rooted so Granite is the only mez protection available. Then lower the base Resistance from 50% to 37.5% and remove the Defense portion of the power. At the same time, have Granite deactivate Health, Stamina, Mud Pots, and some of the Tank's attack powers. (And for White Dwarf, have it deactive any +Acc +Damage powers.)
This is what Castle is trying to tell us is a viable form of Mez Protection. If that were true, there wouldn't be complaints about the lack of mez protection in Human form.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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add some Mez Resistance (duration reduction) to the toggle shields so that the more you have one the less effective the mez is.
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I really like this idea Turbo.
Champion.
Freedom.
We just coded it on a simple X-currentDate formula, so it nerfs itself automatically. -Babs on Accuracy Nerfs
Over 3 years, 1 - 50, whole lotta alt's, still having fun.
Mate, I cannot stress this enough that is "your interpretation" of what Castle said in a post explaining, "one" or a "partial" reason for his decision.
But hey, if repeating the same stuff said in that thread is what you want to do be my guest. Expecting a change based on those previously failed arguements is a bit much though, IMHO.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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PB's don't want teleport for teleport, they want it for tp friend.
I sure would love to get hover for my shade.
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i second that on both accounts. i want hover on my shade just for the massive KB problems ive been having lately. i enjoy the hell outta my shade but almost complete lack of KB protection has brought me to the point im contemplating deleting the character or at least shelving him untill something can be done.
yeah i know there are IO's i can get and i could take 3 powers from jump pool to help this but honestly jump pool isnt in character concept and id rather pick two powers i want instead of wasting two picks. the IO's are just expensive due to cost of living and i think farming is boring.
my 50 is a hovering blaster and KB hasnt ever been a problem. its just a simple solution to let at least hover be avalible. we wont get into the fact that TP is sorta clunky...
heh yeah PBs get hover and i have one of those as well, but the differences between the two make my human only shade tons more fun. not sayin i am uninterested in my dual form PB but come on, you played both they are different beasts.
@LKN-351
Pinnacle
If anything, given the PvP travel suppression changes, giving Warshades access to at least some of the flight pool is a very good idea. Dwarf relies on teleport for its mobility - PvP suppression negates that. Human form relies on teleport as well, same story there. In short, if you want to PvP on a Warshade (as lol as it may be), you either need to dip into the speed or leaping pools, or rely on Nova.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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changing human melee attacks from knockback to knockdown : Nothing new here, as it's something that tanker and scrapper asked for themselves, a lot. Knockback is not welcomed among any melee AT. Especially when it comes from aoe/pbaoe attacks. Peacebringer human form melee attack are on heavy knockback, they should be changed to knockdown/knockup only.
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would so love this change for Solar Flare, hardly a problem w/ Radiant Strike and Gleaming Blast imo.
PB's being exempt from Teleport and WS being exempt from Flight always seemed rather...dumb, given that we can't use those pool powers in our other forms...
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On the issue of Status Protection post-Issue 13, I would say the only change necessary would be change the inherent bonus from 1 mag to 2 mag per controller/dom player. Do not give 2 mag inherent into the secondary tier 1 power, however do add some Mez Resistance (duration reduction) to the toggle shields so that the more you have one the less effective the mez is.
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I can get behind this at least. The Controller/Domination boost to the khelds inherant should already have been done. That makes sense. Now I would still say mez resistance is unecessary, but if a compromise had to be done then this is the way to go.
With all the tools these Khelds give me, adding a 2 mez protection in an Inherant would offer protection from at least one mezzer. Ok folks are right that is miniscule on a team. But Solo? I rarely worry about Mezzers now, Tri-Form or Human but give me that and Solo gaming because entirely too easy, added with Dwarf it's just a cake run. So the argument here is on teams then, but if your on a team for the most part your team should support you so Mezz shouldn't be that big an issue. Add an increase from Trollers/Doms and it becomes just right, but have your own 2 mezz protection, on top of what a team can usually provide in straight protection or mitigation and it does become too much, especially if you factor the dwarf-breakfree. Even taking thAt away ( something I think is a bad idea since dwarf-breakfree works with AT theme) where would the drawback to human be since they have mitigation tools like Essence Boost, Inky Aspect, Restore Essence, Gravity Well, Pulsar etc. Blasters have defiance, sure, which give me an attack or two while being mezzed but they are still squishy. Defenders may have some some mezz protection, but for the most part they are mitigation against mezz. So on and so forth for other AT's.
No, the solution Turbo came to is the best I heard for those who want a little more. Yet straight out protection just isn't a good idea IMO.
Now, as for the Power Pools, I still think that's justified, especially in light of someone bribing up PvP. WS really suffer in this regard, and both AT suffer when in their meatiest form do to suppression. Opening up the Power Pools might not help, but it can salve some of it.
Ok, that's my cheap pity shot into trying to open up the travel pools, heh heh, but I still maintain the position that for concept/creativity reasons that should be the case.
I wasn't around these last days, but some people were busy it seems
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Is there a single PB power that isn't a very close clone of another powerset's power? I'm trying to think of one. I mean, Solar Flare isn't quite the same as Foot Stomp, because it has a higher magnitude.
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Iirc, Foot Stomp used to have the same mag as Solar Flare.
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From Turbo_Ski :
On the issue of Status Protection post-Issue 13, I would say the only change necessary would be change the inherent bonus from 1 mag to 2 mag per controller/dom player. Do not give 2 mag inherent into the secondary tier 1 power, however do add some Mez Resistance (duration reduction) to the toggle shields so that the more you have one the less effective the mez is.
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If it has to be changed, I'm much inclined toward having the inherent redesigned to a more reliable solution : half bonus versus the team size, other half versus the team rooster. Of course with a slight increase to the mag bonus.
And also having it calculating bonuses toward the current group only when a people leave/enter/join the zone/group, instead of who's nearby each second.
It would allow to remove the range limit without overloading the servers, as Castle reported in beta when the range was increased.
Yeah, but any changes like this will be years down the road when they datamine why PBs still have problems. Then they'll *finally* implement it or something that does a very similar 'fix'.
Still here, even after all this time!
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CP and group energy flight really give me the impression the devs were like "huh, let's just throw this crap in there because we don't know what else to fill the powerset with."
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That's how I've always viewed the design of Peacebringers.
Warshades at least feel unique among the archetypes. PBs feel slapped together with no real effort at all.
[/ QUOTE ]Is there a single PB power that isn't a very close clone of another powerset's power? I'm trying to think of one. I mean, Solar Flare isn't quite the same as Foot Stomp, because it has a higher magnitude.
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lol.. Dwarf and Nova..