visual issue, for PBs when eyes glow it looks like their cheeks are glowing seems a bit off balanced
~Amidst the blue skies, a link from past to future. The sheltering wings of the protector~
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Hi WhiteHotFlash.
[ QUOTE ]
If Peacebringers want to teleport, they can take Dwarf. If Warshades want to fly, they can take Nova.
[/ QUOTE ]
PB's don't want teleport for teleport, they want it for tp friend.
Now.... why is it that a warshade can go into the Stealth pool when they already can get....... From Umbral Aura:
Shadow Cloak and Nebulous Form
Interesting.... no?
I sure would love to get hover for my shade. (and AS) 
BC 
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen.
Air superiority for both
Hover for shades to complement TP
Recall Friend for PB
IMHO they should create 2 new power pools, one for WS and one for PB containing the useful "minor" PP powers that we are currently block from to keep PBs from getting TP and WS from getting fly.
I know many others may not care, but I would really like access to a Group Teleport for Warshades. I don't need access to the teleport power pool, I just want another power selection at the same time Group Flight opens up for Peacebringers.
I wouldn't complain if Warshades got the equivalent of the old Fold Space power (a "recall team" power that was in Gravity Control way back when).
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I know many others may not care, but I would really like access to a Group Teleport for Warshades. I don't need access to the teleport power pool, I just want another power selection at the same time Group Flight opens up for Peacebringers.
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Warshades get the same number of powers as Peacebringers. And I think Shadow Cloak is intended to be the equivalent power to Group Energy Flight. (It comes a slot earlier, but that just means Warshades get their final sheild a slot later) And I definately think Warshades get the better end of that deal.
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changing human melee attacks from knockback to knockdown : Nothing new here, as it's something that tanker and scrapper asked for themselves, a lot. Knockback is not welcomed among any melee AT. Especially when it comes from aoe/pbaoe attacks. Peacebringer human form melee attack are on heavy knockback, they should be changed to knockdown/knockup only.
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This needs to be addressed ASAP. In my opinion, this is the most important problem with the PB (one of the only problems left with the PB, but its huge). Solar flare and radiant strike are basically worthless in teams because of the huge knockback. The tank finally gathers everything up, you run up to AoE with solar flare and BAM, everything goes flying, and people get mad (you can't blame them, it even makes me mad).
I love scrapping in my PB human form, but the knockback just kills the fun. Please devs, get this fixed.
QR
I think Kheldians are much better post I13, but I still think they lag far behind the Soldiers of Arachnos. Even the Bane, the weakest of the bunch is better than most Kheldian builds until well into the high levels (when Warshades get much better). My suggestions would be:
1) Human Form (both PB and WS) should have 1.0 melee/ranged damage modifiers;
2) Starting Passive (both) has 4 MAG protection to hold, sleep, disorient only;
3) PBs get Air Superiority and their KBs changed to KD.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
QR
I think Kheldians are much better post I13, but I still think they lag far behind the Soldiers of Arachnos. Even the Bane, the weakest of the bunch is better than most Kheldian builds until well into the high levels (when Warshades get much better). My suggestions would be:
1) Human Form (both PB and WS) should have 1.0 melee/ranged damage modifiers;
2) Starting Passive (both) has 4 MAG protection to hold, sleep, disorient only;
3) PBs get Air Superiority and their KBs changed to KD.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would get me to un-shelve my PB.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
[ QUOTE ]
1) Human Form (both PB and WS) should have 1.0 melee/ranged damage modifiers;
2) Starting Passive (both) has 4 MAG protection to hold, sleep, disorient only;
3) PBs get Air Superiority and their KBs changed to KD.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Agreed, but then I'm not so good on balance issues
2) Disagree. I still believe it messes with the flavor of the ATs in my opinion
3) Partially agree. Only Solar Flare should be hanged to KD as the others just lend themselves to much to thrusting away in a KB fashion. And Khelds to get Air Superiority only if WS get it opened too as well as the Pool, or gain access to Team Teleport.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Human Form (both PB and WS) should have 1.0 melee/ranged damage modifiers;
2) Starting Passive (both) has 4 MAG protection to hold, sleep, disorient only;
3) PBs get Air Superiority and their KBs changed to KD.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Agreed, but then I'm not so good on balance issues
2) Disagree. I still believe it messes with the flavor of the ATs in my opinion
3) Partially agree. Only Solar Flare should be hanged to KD as the others just lend themselves to much to thrusting away in a KB fashion. And Khelds to get Air Superiority only if WS get it opened too as well as the Pool, or gain access to Team Teleport.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have a problem at all with WSs getting a version of team teleport. Only reason I didn't mention it was I couldn't remember which power in the teleport pool they DIDN'T get and was too lazy to look it up.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
2) Starting Passive (both) has 4 MAG protection to hold, sleep, disorient only;
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Agreed, agreed some more, and agreed 40 million times over. /signed, /QFT, and whatever else I can say to completely agree with this.
My fav toons to play on are my Khelds, but I am consistently pissed off that just because I decide to make a human-only form (my fav way to play them), I have to deal with being mezzed at least 50% of the time I'm playing against mezzers, teamed or not. The only thing I can hope for is an empath to be invited to the team who consistently shells out clear mind, but that's a 1 in 25,000 chance right there. (or at least feels like it)
In my opinion, choosing what build you want your Khelds, whether it be human only, a dual build, or a tri-form, is part of the flavor of being a Kheld. So, choosing to be a human-only build should not be penalized mezz-wise "because you didn't pick dwarf form." What if my playstyle is not the same as yours? I think all forms should have at least more mezz protection--maybe not as much as dwarf form, but at least SOME mezz protection. Sure, getting hit by a quantum should be an auto stun, I could see that no problem. But, every mezzer in the game being pretty much an auto hit? C'mon... That's bull.
Sorry, I just hate being mezzed for half the fight while the rest of the team does all the work. I prefer to participate in the "activities." 
"The One"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
I personally think the quantums are just stupid. Why should two archtypes get enemies that deal special damage to them and completely wreck them? It's an inborn disadvantage.
Well, they changed the Quantums and Voids over a year ago so that they no longer deal special damage to Kheldians, so apparently the Devs agreed that the disadvantage was too great. Q/Vs now deal negative energy damage, which Kheldians get two powers to resist (four powers if you count Dwarf form and Light Form/Eclipse, with the bonuses from the inherent on top of that).
Even before the nerf to Quantums and Voids, they never 'completely wrecked' a competently played Kheld. Now Q/Vs are so trivial that they're almost a joke. Hardly a serious disadvantage.
You may want to update yourself on the current state of things.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
QR
Saw in the OP that Restore Essence can't be slotted with End Mod sets or enhancements.
However, I didnt see this anywhere in the noisy thread:
PBs self rez Restore Essence can be slotted with Heal enhancements and Heal IO sets but the Heal portion of the power has been marked Ignores buffs and enhancements.
This seems like an obvious bug, no?
Also, bugs regarding Lightform:
If you are in Lightform when you exit an AE mission you will no longer be in the form, but the power will have been used, in this way one avoids the crash, but also may lose a portion of the powers duration.
In Lightform all attacks and your ally heal do not root you as normal.
When exiting a mission in Lightform often one will lose the 'little ball of light' appearance, and instead be 'humanoid model of light' for a little while.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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I have to disagree with this, I teamed with a stone tank once who didn't take rooted and he kept getting knocked back, his style of play meant he didnt want to go as slow as rooted makes him, but he still had the option of getting that additional protection and I thought he was a fool for not, he just laughed it off and fair play to him.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
So, choosing to be a human-only build should not be penalized mezz-wise "because you didn't pick dwarf form." What if my playstyle is not the same as yours?"
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Just because your style of play means you don't want to take advantage of a power doesn't mean you should be rewarded for it. Fair play to you for wanting to play in human form but no matter which way you cut it the mez protection is there for you to take and the devs should encourage us to use all the tools at our disposal.
What if I didn't want to take any attacks? Could I reasonably ask for a 100dps damage aura?
All this is aside from the fact that Khelds would be verging on overpowered if they had mez protection.
Edit: Don't get me wrong I would love to have mz protection and it would make things so much easier, but I would also love rocket launchers on my squids shoulders and don't think the devs should actually give me them.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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But I love my invulnerability tanks costume. Why should I have to have it obscured by all them ugly auras? I shouldnt be penalized for my play style. :P
Same darn thing. Exactly.
The tanker forums would beat me down with torches and pitchforks for even saying this because they would concider this beyond stupid. Why is this even an arguable point in this section of the forums?
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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Not the same thing at all. Perhaps if using your Inv shields caused all but 2 or 3 attack powers to not work, then yes it would be the same. Frankly, the only way I'd make a tri-form is if the human-form ranged attacks worked in Nova and the melee attacks worked in Dwarf. It's a poorly thought out idea, but it highlights my beef with Kheldians.
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Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
But I love my invulnerability tanks costume. Why should I have to have it obscured by all them ugly auras? I shouldnt be penalized for my play style. :P
Same darn thing. Exactly. The tanker forums would beat me down with torches and pitchforks for even saying this because they would concider this beyond stupid. Why is this even an arguable point in this section of the forums? |
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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The whole point of the AT is that you get different powers in each form, not liking that idea just means you don't like the AT, not that the AT should change to accomodate you.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Not the same thing at all. Perhaps if using your Inv shields caused all but 2 or 3 attack powers to not work, then yes it would be the same. Frankly, the only way I'd make a tri-form is if the human-form ranged attacks worked in Nova and the melee attacks worked in Dwarf. It's a poorly thought out idea, but it highlights my beef with Kheldians.
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So coming from that viewpoint (Which is the correct one) there really isn't any reason to complain about not having certain things like mez protection. The function is there it is just a personal issue that you don't like it. So the analogy with invincibility is perfectly acceptable, the reason for disliking it may seem to be more trivial but it isn't.
(Note: When I say 'you' it refers to everyone rather than an individual)
No other AT looks at its powers like we do, people seem to see part of the AT they like and claim "I really like Khelds!" but then complain about the rest of the AT, which means that they don't actually like Khelds, they just like a few powers.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Quote:
You're coming a long way after the battle already finished times ago.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
So coming from that viewpoint (Which is the correct one) there really isn't any reason to complain about not having certain things like mez protection. The function is there it is just a personal issue that you don't like it. So the analogy with invincibility is perfectly acceptable, the reason for disliking it may seem to be more trivial but it isn't.
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Using the kheldians term is doubtful at best. Peacebringers have needs warshades don't, and vice versa.
Peacebringer in human form are melee centered, where the lack of any mez protection is the reason this issue is raised everytime it can be
Warshade in human form aren't melee centered, thus not really needing it. While it would be nice, it is also accepted not having it is fine as long as the AT, especially Eclipse, isn't getting any nerf.
Note the terms human forms are used, nova shouldn't have mez protection, dwarf don't need it (even more as they have higher mez protection values). While some things should work on every forms, not everything must do the same.
I'm sorry to dissagree (wait, no. I'm really not.).
Your Human form Peacer "NEEDS" mezz protection in human form the same as my defender who took flurry and likes to melee or my blapper who decided to not take any ranged attacks. Your choice to play a certain way (IMHO against the grain of the design intent of Kheldians) and ignore key powers for concept purposes is not in any way a design flaw in the AT. You have mez protection (higher than most AT's) the fact you refuse to take it because it is included in a package deal that is limiting as well as (to some) ugly in no way means you do not have access to mez protection.
I want Granite Armor and Rooted, without the hinderances and with an order of french fries and a coke.
What? I'm crazy for asking you say? Yes, yes I am..
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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I have to completely disagree with this, and add that it's very bad analogy. We ARE taking damage powers in human form, and we ARE taking SHIELDS in human form, and thus are actually trying to protect ourselves while preferring not to go through a shape-change shift every 5 seconds. Completely different.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I have to disagree with this, I teamed with a stone tank once who didn't take rooted and he kept getting knocked back, his style of play meant he didnt want to go as slow as rooted makes him, but he still had the option of getting that additional protection and I thought he was a fool for not, he just laughed it off and fair play to him.
Just because your style of play means you don't want to take advantage of a power doesn't mean you should be rewarded for it. Fair play to you for wanting to play in human form but no matter which way you cut it the mez protection is there for you to take and the devs should encourage us to use all the tools at our disposal. What if I didn't want to take any attacks? Could I reasonably ask for a 100dps damage aura? All this is aside from the fact that Khelds would be verging on overpowered if they had mez protection. Edit: Don't get me wrong I would love to have mz protection and it would make things so much easier, but I would also love rocket launchers on my squids shoulders and don't think the devs should actually give me them. |
I don't hear anyone complaining about the mag 4 KB protection from certain enhancements.... In fact, I'd say it's one of the more popular enhancements to get in the game... Why? Because there are toons out there who don't like the idea of being "required" to *waste* 2 power choices on having to get Acrobatics on EVERY. SINGLE. TOON. they make. So, why not have some toons with Acrobatics, some toons (like scrappers and tanks and yes, dwarf form) that have "natural" protection, and some toons who prefer to buy the enhancement protection? That's the way the Devs set it up, and that's the way I think it should be done. More choices/ways to do things can only improve and expand the capabilities of the game.
I'd go for that... If you don't opt for dwarf form (and you shouldn't HAVE to), then invest the money/merits in getting an enhancement that has, say, 4 mag protection against stuns.... Completely legitimate request. That way, if you don't want mez protection in human form because you're a "purist" or whatever, that's cool. But, if I want it, and want to "waste* the enhancement slot (in your opinion) by slotting a mez protection enhancement, then that's MY choice. We all play the game differently, and shouldn't be penalized for that. I believe the Devs would agree.
"The One"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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My analogy was fine because just like you if I didnt take the attacks and demanded something to replace them I would be wrong - you spotted that correctly, but failed to see how similar it is somehow.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I have to completely disagree with this, and add that it's very bad analogy. We ARE taking damage powers in human form, and we ARE taking SHIELDS in human form, and thus are actually trying to protect ourselves while preferring not to go through a shape-change shift every 5 seconds. Completely different.
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In my example I refused to take the attacks, in yours you refuse to take the mez protection. That is exactly the same principle.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
I don't hear anyone complaining about the mag 4 KB protection from certain enhancements.... In fact, I'd say it's one of the more popular enhancements to get in the game... Why? Because there are toons out there who don't like the idea of being "required" to *waste* 2 power choices on having to get Acrobatics on EVERY. SINGLE. TOON. they make. So, why not have some toons with Acrobatics, some toons (like scrappers and tanks and yes, dwarf form) that have "natural" protection, and some toons who prefer to buy the enhancement protection? That's the way the Devs set it up, and that's the way I think it should be done. More choices/ways to do things can only improve and expand the capabilities of the game.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
I'd go for that... If you don't opt for dwarf form (and you shouldn't HAVE to), then invest the money/merits in getting an enhancement that has, say, 4 mag protection against stuns.... Completely legitimate request. That way, if you don't want mez protection in human form because you're a "purist" or whatever, that's cool. But, if I want it, and want to "waste* the enhancement slot (in your opinion) by slotting a mez protection enhancement, then that's MY choice. We all play the game differently, and shouldn't be penalized for that. I believe the Devs would agree.
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I am not a 'purist', but you HAVE mez protection and trying to suggest you need more is just wrong.
Also there are actually mez resistance IO's out there.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Thats because I was EU side unfortunetly, but I assume if the battle finished my side won? Right always wins.|
Originally Posted by Sadyre_NA
You're coming a long way after the battle already finished times ago.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sadyre_NA
Using the kheldians term is doubtful at best. Peacebringers have needs warshades don't, and vice versa.
Peacebringer in human form are melee centered, where the lack of any mez protection is the reason this issue is raised everytime it can be Warshade in human form aren't melee centered, thus not really needing it. While it would be nice, it is also accepted not having it is fine as long as the AT, especially Eclipse, isn't getting any nerf. |
Also the Warshades hardest hitter is a melee attack.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Quote:
Not that I am a ********, even if it sounds like, but it's tiring seeing the same arguments coming and coming because people didn't check before what the state is, don't bother reading the op, and don't have a complete sight of powers relations between them.|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
I'm sorry to dissagree (wait, no. I'm really not.).
Your Human form Peacer "NEEDS" mezz protection in human form the same as my defender who took flurry and likes to melee or my blapper who decided to not take any ranged attacks. Your choice to play a certain way (IMHO against the grain of the design intent of Kheldians) and ignore key powers for concept purposes is not in any way a design flaw in the AT. You have mez protection (higher than most AT's) the fact you refuse to take it because it is included in a package deal that is limiting as well as (to some) ugly in no way means you do not have access to mez protection. I want Granite Armor and Rooted, without the hinderances and with an order of french fries and a coke. What? I'm crazy for asking you say? Yes, yes I am.. |
First and foremost, everytimes is forgotten the fact kheldian human forms are designed to have mez protection, from the i-link inherent power. Allowing to sustain the 3 shields both AT have in their secondaries. The main failure of this design roots in both the fact kheldians were designed to be team oriented AT with a very particular team composition in mind. And the lack of foresight in mez amount in higher levels.
This last point who was decisionnal in a drastic blaster mechanic change, allowing them to still attack while mezzed.
Second is the fact both kheldians have 3 self shields toggles in their secondaries, but the non working mez protection design prevent kheldians from using them correctly. No other AT have those options in their secondary and not able to sustain them.
Third is the relation between forms and human form powers. And that a question Castle still hasn't answered yet, and certainly doesn't want to : enforcing the use of dwarf form as the main mez protection source. Thus completly negating both primaries and secondaries, as forms completly disable all other powers.
Not even speaking about the fact the dwarf form activation is interruptable by mezz. If you're unlucky, you can have to wait for more than 5 seconds before being able to switch to dwarf form.
Fourth, mostly for peacebringer, is the fact their emblematic and highest damage/utility human attack powers are of melee type or very close range, and need them to stay in this state.
It's the case PB differs from shade, as they can play the hit and run with they utility powers, or have the tool to bring the target to them. PB don't have this luxury, and not even able to have access to some as both fly and teleport pools are locked out for kheldians.
Fifth, remember each time arguments are about primaries and secondaries powers. The core powers defining both AT. Not just an idea tossed around using power pools, or comparing a granite tank/brute who's not locked of [b]all[/b) his other power when using granite, and still getting the drawbacks.
Sixth, before I forgot about it again, it's not a complete mez protection we're talking about. It's a mild sleep/hold/stun enough to sustain the shield and keep moving. -5 mez prot should be enough as is to overcome 2 mez of the same type. If more is needed, then the situation is different and the role tank should be assumed through the dwarf form.
In the end, yeah, it's really much more complicated than what it's looks like at fist glance. To a point even the devs, while they tried honorably, don't want to push farther in opening the pandora box. Because they would have to spend so much time on a AT that have near 0 priority given his history, it would be insane.
[ QUOTE ]
Well after finally getting to make a VEAT, I would add Mez protection to the list. After all, there is nothing special (i.e. changing forms) a VEAT has to do. They get mez protection. Switching to Dwarf is cool, but I have a human only PB. Nope... After seeing my Spider in action, I will have to say mez protection is a must to balance the AT with it's villain counterpart...
Cheers...
[/ QUOTE ]I point to my suggestion, up-thread, about how to balance Kheldian Mez Protection in human-form with the need to "provide a reason for Dwarf Form" as had been stated by Castle in the thread about the major Kheld changes.