Live Feedback: Issue 13 : Story Arcs & Missions
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2008-12-03 17:18 in Developers' Corner
I just wanted to comment on the new hero side storyarcs. I'll comment on villain side once I run them, but I thought I'd comment on what I've seen:
Daedalus
Honestly I was REALLY disappointed here. The quality of missions in the game has improved every issue by leaps and bounds, but these arcs felt like a return to the dull "go here, kill that" kind of missions that plague CoH story arcs. There's even a really long and dull kill all at the end of the second one that I thought we were past.
More troublesome, I don't really get WHAT's happening here. Why is Arachnos in Cimerora? Why would they go to that specific time period? Cimerora makes sense if you're there on behalf of the Midnight Club, but is Arachnos suddenly a part of the club? The Malta arc runs into similar problems; I just didn't get why this group would care about a small slice of European history. It just feels inconsistent and generic and a significant step back compared to recent story arcs.
Midnight Club Arcs
So, my little rant above? None of that applies here. All three of these arcs are pretty fun and have some great moments:
-Evil Music arc:
I want to point out something special that happened during this arc. During one mission you go to try and capture the villain, only to find they've already left. After discovering this you need to find clues where to go next. I LOVE this. For the first time I feel like I'm really driving the story; taking the initiative and finding out what to do next without relying on the contact.
So here's what happened. I ran this mission, got the clues, figured out where they were pointing and rushed to Talos to apprehend the villain. Only when I got to Talos did I remember how the game works and noticed "Return to Contact" in my mission list. I really really hope more storyarcs can be this self driven in the future. Absolutely loved this.
-Magic Man arc
So this arc is fun simply because you get attached to the villain and he's quite memorable. The last fight is fantastic and put a huge grin on my face. One thing I'd like to point out about it that makes it special as far as I'm concerned is that you don't beat the villain on pure brute force. Technically, you do, but if you're paying attention to why you finally stop him, its more like a good Batman story, where an apparently unstoppable foe is foiled through a flaw in their plan. Bravo. This one went straight into my favorites list.
-Warrior Crown arc
Yeah! Warriors! Nice to see these guys finally get an arc where they're not cannon fodder. Ok, so the Atta map is more tedious than ever and really drags the pace of this arc down. I was really down on this arc, but the last mission is a lot of fun. The story isn't quite as interesting as I'd hoped, with no real significant twist, but the last battle is extremely fun and really pushes you. My least favorite of the 3, but still a memorable arc.
So... yeah. Daedalus is definitely a disappointment for me, but the Midnight Club arcs are a total success. I do get the feeling that the Villain side story for Cimerora might be better, but I'll save the feedback there for when I get a chance to run those arcs.
Midnight Squad Story Arc: Excellent! Most I've enjoyed a new story arc in awhile. I hope to see MANY more like this in the near future. I know Story Arc material is very time consuming, but if you want to increase the life span of this game more if this is how you do it.
Cimerora Story Arc: Haven't gotten around to doing it yet, been to busy playing my new shield scrapper. Hope it's as good as the Midnight Squad Arc.
Objective:
Why are these arcs made mandatory for all characters? (The Arc starts whether you speak to the contact or not). It is really annoying haveing to repeat these over and over just to clear the flag off each alt.
205723: A Different DESTINY
When Soldiers of Arachnos got their names added to the Destiny List, Longbow managed to get a copy of the list and began rounding villains up. But one name on the list shocked them...
Subjective: Cimerora
I don't get it. It doesn't feel like I'm being a superhero at all. Why are these here? I know the story, but it's just not the experience I'm looking for when I load up City of Heroes.
The only new arcs I have run are the new Midnighters arcs on the hero side, I really enjoyed them. I liked all the ambushes fighting the bosses and some of the clever twists on the boss fights.
I cant remember what the name of the woman was in the first arc but I was really disappointed that on the mission where you are supposed to stop her you didnt get to fight her, rather then take her out as a hostage.
Also, while I did enjoy the arcs a lot I felt that many of the bosses should have been elevated up to EB status and possibly AV if you had a big enough team for them, especially people the Magic Man.
If there are more arcs along these style in the works im all for it, or if old run down arcs are going to be redone that would be sweet too.
I did both sets of contacts in Cimerora, having done the Sister Airlia arc first, the Daedalus arc made sense to me.
LunarKnight said: [ QUOTE ]
More troublesome, I don't really get WHAT's happening here. Why is Arachnos in Cimerora?
[/ QUOTE ]
I did enjoy both sets of arcs, but the villain arcs I found to be more enjoyable. I think that the reason that I felt more involved with the villain arcs was because I was actively seeking new goals whereas in the hero arcs I'm reacting to someone elses plots and machinations.
Only other comment I have on the Cimerora missions, Daedalus is unnecessary as a pet in the one mission. I would recommend removing him from that mission. (Mission is "Restore the Tabula Scutum")
"I used to make diddly squat, but I've been with the company for 16 years and have had plenty of great raises. Now I just make squat" -- Me
Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.
Daedalus - agreed, I do not see the point in this, there must be some other information that I'm missing.
-Evil Music arc: this might have been fun, but, I did this solo with my lowbie spines scrapper, 21 at start, if for some reason my accuracy had not been capped at less that %25, and, there was a minimum of %90. The last mission was the worst, in a running fight with the ambushes, was chased all the to the mission door, then had to go back finish last Spectral demon, then fight my way to the exit again.
Magic Man arc: still have the last mission to do, but, this one has been fun.
Warrior Crown arc: have not done this yet. Looking forward to it, nice to see the Warriors getting some love.
Why would an AV be in St Martial, running her own errands and end up a captive of a mere group of LBs?
And she conned yellow in that mish while the flunky in the next part of the story conned orange.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Subjective: The "rescue Ghost Widow" mission of the Sister Airlia story arc seems very easy to fail.
I was playing through with my 38 dominator. I got to the third floor, rescued her, and then was killed by the purple boss that spawned behind me. So I went to the hospital, flew back, and while I was on the second floor trying to get back to her, the mission failed.
Is this normal behaviour? I thought that NPC interactions stopped while you weren't within a certain distance of them, but I wasn't even on the same floor. And if this was meant to happen, that makes this mission basically an auto-fail if you have to go to the hospital after rescuing Ghost Widow.
On a positive note, Sister Airlia's resulting comments about the mission failure were funny and perfectly appropriate for my poor dom! 
[ QUOTE ]
Subjective: The "rescue Ghost Widow" mission of the Sister Airlia story arc seems very easy to fail.
I was playing through with my 38 dominator. I got to the third floor, rescued her, and then was killed by the purple boss that spawned behind me. So I went to the hospital, flew back, and while I was on the second floor trying to get back to her, the mission failed.
Is this normal behaviour? I thought that NPC interactions stopped while you weren't within a certain distance of them, but I wasn't even on the same floor. And if this was meant to happen, that makes this mission basically an auto-fail if you have to go to the hospital after rescuing Ghost Widow.
On a positive note, Sister Airlia's resulting comments about the mission failure were funny and perfectly appropriate for my poor dom!
[/ QUOTE ]
Just to note, I have bugged this in-game, as the Elite Boss, Lt. Alston (Longbow Ballista), spawns as a level 40 minimum (even though the duo we played was a level 35 and level 37 on heroic).
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"Chew Electric Death, Snarling Cur!"
Finally finished the Midnight Club Arc.
Magic Man was a lot fun.
The Warrior Crown arc last mission, spawned 4 bosses simultaneously after defeating Hector, glad I was solo. The Atta map is to large, or, they could move the mission objectives closer to the entrance, and, you could do as much as you want for the extra xp. Fun arc though.
Ex:
No offense, but why does it seem that in issue 12 and now this issue, heroes have access to these new missions at earlier levels than their villain counterparts? Actually, it does not seem -- it actually IS.
May i remind you of the maxim 'Perception Is Reality" ?
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I just wanted to comment on the new hero side storyarcs. I'll comment on villain side once I run them, but I thought I'd comment on what I've seen:
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<snip>
I'd just like to say I agree with most of what LunarKnight says. I ran Daedalus's arcs with my peacebringer, Mercedes Sheldon's hero arcs with one of my tankers, and her villain arc and Sister Airlia's first arc with a stalker.
I generally find Cimerora uninteresting, and Daedalus and Sister Airlia have done nothing to change my opinion. I like seeing Arachnos more on heroside, and it's nice to fight one of Recluse's inner circle at 40 (instead of having to wait for 45+). The castle-full-of-Malta mission looks like it might be a lot of fun with a team, but I was doing it solo, so it was painfully slow. And I'm still annoyed that my stalker was barely able to tickle the Longbow Ballista in Sister Airlia's arc, although that's not the writer's fault.
On the other hand, I greatly enjoyed Mercedes Sheldon on both sides, and I wish she had more for villains to do. I also wonder why she's 20-25 on hero side -- that's a range where heroes already have plenty to choose from (other story arcs, Striga, Faultline).
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
Mr. Harlick:
Please review the way ambushes happen in missions. They do not suddenly spawn around the PC, but rather start at a distance and move to the PC. Further, they come in waves rather than all at once.
Second, review the ratios between bosses, lieutenants, and minions in spawns and the spacing between spawns. In several missions, there are too many bosses and lts., and the spawns are remarkably close together.
Pulling and Stealthing are valid and commonly used tactics. Do NOT deliberately make these tactics difficult or impossible to do.
Finally, remember you're telling a story, not setting out to frustrate the players. City of Heroes has a very cooperative relationship between the developers and the player base. The antagonistic style of several of these missions is out of place in the game.
Starcloud, I've played through these new arcs just yesterday and I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about here:
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, remember you're telling a story, not setting out to frustrate the players. City of Heroes has a very cooperative relationship between the developers and the player base. The antagonistic style of several of these missions is out of place in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the arcs, some spawns were top heavy and close, but more a challenge than a disaster.
Also:
[ QUOTE ]
Please review the way ambushes happen in missions. They do not suddenly spawn around the PC, but rather start at a distance and move to the PC. Further, they come in waves rather than all at once.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't see this happen when I ran, your experience may have been a bug.
"I used to make diddly squat, but I've been with the company for 16 years and have had plenty of great raises. Now I just make squat" -- Me
Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.
I think the new story arcs should have been written for the 45+ heroes and had more villains' stories. There are plenty of story arcs at lvl 20 to 25 on the hero side and not enough for those us 45+ heroes or villains in general.
My two cents.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the new story arcs should have been written for the 45+ heroes and had more villains' stories. There are plenty of story arcs at lvl 20 to 25 on the hero side and not enough for those us 45+ heroes or villains in general.
My two cents.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm reasonably certain the arcs are in the range they are in so that they can use the Warriors. I'm pretty sure they don't spawn much higher than 25.
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[ QUOTE ]
I think the new story arcs should have been written for the 45+ heroes and had more villains' stories. There are plenty of story arcs at lvl 20 to 25 on the hero side and not enough for those us 45+ heroes or villains in general.
My two cents.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm reasonably certain the arcs are in the range they are in so that they can use the Warriors. I'm pretty sure they don't spawn much higher than 25.
[/ QUOTE ]
They could have up the damage or change the mobs. The point is that there is not enough story arcs or content for those us with 45+ heroes.
These were very poor as they used the same tile sets we have to see over and over. Pointless to add these. Why not just run through the missions that already look like this? It's the same thing.
Having contacts based on existing characters and making ancient versions of them is also very lame. Make something new. It's not tough.
Overall, these are very weak adds to the game and another reason I will quickly stop playing again. I13 didn't add much as far as play is concerned.
I really don't get CoX and their ad. efforts etc. They missed getting the MAC version out for Christmas and they also added a very lame issue when they really need to step it up for the upcoming competition.
What the hell are the writers doing with all their time? The other devs had the time to basically build 14 all new ATs (while they were trashing PvP), and the writers only got a few, short story arcs out? Story arcs with no new tilesets or anything? No new game systems? and they aren't even INTERESTING? WTF? There's not even a human element to them, they are just flat and bland. They are just THERE. There is nothing even remotely exiting or interesting about them, I don't feel involved, I don't FEEL anything. I may as well just go over to Valerius and run his random missions, cause they're actually more interesting.
I know this is harsh, but I say this under the distinct impression that you can DO BETTER. I have a genuine faith that you are better writers than this, but I am incredibly disappointed in exactly how mediocre the writing has been since I11 went live. No, not just disappointed, CONFUSED.
I create a longer Oblivion mod with custom meshes, textures, and voice acting in less time. I wrote 250+ pages in my novel during October. You've been working on I13 for like, what, 6+ months? All you have to do is WRITE, you don't even have to make anything new or special in terms of gameplay mechanics or new tilesets, all you have to do is WRITE and get the player engaged. You're failing. I urge you to re-examine your efforts for I14, to rethink what you're doing. You need a human element, a personal element, not just "Hi, I'm awesome, go here, do this, come back". It's lacking, and it's killing your story arcs.
Us players are not stupid, and neither are you. After 6 or more months working on the story arcs for this issue, I expected a lot better.
What I'm further perplexed by is the lack of open writing positions at NC NorCal. Writing is integral to a game, it's the glue that holds all the glitz and explosions and XP together for many people. It doesn't seem like you have enough of them. I suggest hiring more. I'd work for you, I'd gladly deal with all the orders and the pouring of whipped cream and beer on my head for the chance to help, but the chances of you guys wanting me around is .. well, that feels like a joke.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
The new missions were the result of a new dev being trained on the system, which is why the things are simple, in other zones, and very much stuff we've seen before. It's nothing to throw a fit over.
Overall I thought the missions were quite good for a first try, and out of the Cimeora and Midnighter hero side arcs that I played, I rather like the Magic Man arc for its unique ending.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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Learning a new system doesn't make your writing automatically lose a level. I know this from experience. If anything, it should make a writer better. Writers are artists. Highly creative people with deep thought and feeling, generally. Introducing them to new situations should challenge them on a critical level, and allow them to learn and grow as artists. Maybe they were just playing it safe. In that case, please stop guys. Write from your heart, not from your brains, we'll all be happier.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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Subjective: The "rescue Ghost Widow" mission of the Sister Airlia story arc seems very easy to fail.
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Agreed.
After defeating the Warden the ambush was on my lvl 38 MM before I'd even finished reading Ghost Widow's dialogue, so that's three purple Longbow bosses in a row, with no break between them. They also made extremely short work of GW after I went down - I popped a wakie, tried to heal her, got flattened again, and saw her defeated seconds later.
Yes I was playing on Relentless, but nothing in the contact's dialogue implied that I'd need a team - which, since I solo a lot, is usually when I consider dropping the difficulty a level or two - especially if it's a failable mission.
I've found that there are a few badges that many people have missed over time, so when running through them as my villain, i go to the other zones, and offer them up so that people can obtain the badges again, without having to jet through ourborus.
However, as mission leader, I'm finding that the missions are 'grayed out' and unable to be selected if i invite someone who is 6+ levels above me. I just can't select the mission. I can select the bank missions without issue, but i can't select my own mission or enter my own mission while they're in.
I checked over the patch updates and couldn't find anything relating to this...so I'm curious, is it new and not mentioned somwhere?
@Darktweets
Use the following topic to discuss Issue 13's Story Arcs and Missions.
<ul type="square">[*]Midnight Squad Story Arcs (for Level 20-25 Heroes, Level 30-35 Villains)
The Midnight Squad has need of its members in recovering some stolen artifacts. Heroes and Villains should speak to Mercedes Sheldon who can be found inside the Midnighter Club in the side wing that leads to the Hero Zone Steel Canyon. [*]Cimerora Story Arcs (for Level 40-50 Heroes and Level 35-50 Villains)
Players can journey through time back to the ancient land of the Roman Cimeroran peninsula where they can talk to Daedalus (for Heroes) or Sister Airlia (for Villains) to encounter new challenges. [/list]For additional insight to the creation of our missions check out this Developer Diary by Senior Game Designer Bruce Harlick
Issue 13: Designing the New Missions.
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Feedback is important to our development process, there are two types of feedback and both are helpful although some give us more insight and are more easily adapted into game changes.
Objective Feedback: Objective feedback is based upon what you as a user see or experience that other users may also see and experience. This feedback usually can be replicated easily as it involves facts and unbiased opinions. Example: When using the base editor items are sometimes getting caught in columns or pillars.
Subjective Feedback: Subjective feedback is based upon how you feel or experience the game as yourself. This experience may not necessarily be replicated because it is based on feeling and emotion. Subjective feedback is important to us but it is usually helpful if more information is present to describe what and why you feel the way you do. Example: I like the way the graphics look on my shield animation it gives me the feeling of being truly super-powered.
Are you reporting a bug from Issue 13? Please use this thread to report bugs, there is a format in the OP that you can follow to help you in your reporting. Issue 13: BUGS