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Again, would you like to support your stance or continue this offtopic banter? Either way, I got the time.
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Ok, I'll sum up. You said that you'd spend merits to make things to sell for influence.
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I said I would use merits to get IOs for my Alts and *might* use them to acquire expensive IOs and sell for profit for inf. That inf would be used for a variety of things, including Costume Contests for our SG events.
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I said that was inefficient. This is based on the fact that merits are a second form of currency, and one which is inflation independent since what you buy with them has a fixed price unlike items in the market. As such, merits are a lot more valuable to store rather than to convert into a currency which will be subject to inflation.
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Fortunately for me, I don't play this game like RL. I login to play a hero or villain. I don't market pvp other then sell what I don't need and buy what I want.
That's the difference. You want the most from the least amount. I just want to blast [censored].
I foresee myself saying "Hmmm, I need 200 merits for that IO or 20 million inf." Then I'll decided which is easier for me to obtain.
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As supplies of class C drop recipes dry up in the market merits will become more valuable, and influence less so. In fact if anything merits are likely to be a deflationary currency given the likelihood of the devs adjusting merit rewards downward with the coming speed farming of TFs that now have good rewards.
It should be evident that conversion of a deflationary currency into an inflationary one is rather sub-optimal.
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We have different view points (obviously). Inflation/Deflation in this game doesn't scare or even worry me. I don't take it that seriously.
Again, if I have 300 merits on my level 50 Tank and he doesn't need any IOs but my level 43 Blaster sure could use a Posi Blast. I'm going to spend those merits and give that IO to the blaster. It has nothing to do with Inflation and Deflation to me. It has everything to do with using the system to my advantage and supplement my playstyle.
That was the point of my original post which has been lost in our earlier bickering.
Rather little point to the disagreement after all really.
You aren't anal about being optimal. I'm closer to that point. No big deal.
Though I will say one minor clarification. Using merits on one alt to equip another isn't a bad idea or sub optimal. It's cashing merits into recipes and then selling the recipe that is. I fully expect to use a variety of alts to collect merits for purchasing toys for whatever character I decide needs to be all spiffied up.
Most likely my crab will gather merits to help deck out my other villains. He's almost fully decked out already, so any merits he gathers will be for others.
Too many alts to list.
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I'd like to reiterate the fact that we have no intention of carelessly "nerfing" or "buffing" merit rewards. Making any changes to the number of merits a task gives out will be done with very careful consideration, ample data and after exhausting our other options.
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No offense Synapse, but for THIS game, the Nerfs come out a LOT quicker and a LOT more often than buffs.
I predict that the first Live Merit Reward nerf will happen within the first month (maybe two if they get too involved with the MA). Meanwhile, the first (if ever) Merit Reward buff will happen in a minimum of six months. Most likely in 10-12.
As for the "careful consideration" statement...well...one needs to only look at the original iteration of Stealth Suppression for Glowies nerf and the infamous BS/Regen-handily-defeating-+8s to see that the nerfs are not all that "carefully considered".
Where is that list of "nerfs" vs "buffs" that shows there has been a *lot* more buffing over the past few issues?
I know someone made one somewhere...but I can't remember for the life of me where it is. And searching for nerf will likely result in a few thousand DOOOOOM posts.
Anyone else remember this post and where it actually is?
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Where is that list of "nerfs" vs "buffs" that shows there has been a *lot* more buffing over the past few issues?
I know someone made one somewhere...but I can't remember for the life of me where it is. And searching for nerf will likely result in a few thousand DOOOOOM posts.
Anyone else remember this post and where it actually is?
[/ QUOTE ]
Some of those buffs where two years after the fact when they got over nerfed years ago
Then again you have to been around for those days to know that
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I just love when people assume that forum reg dates are the same as when someone started the game...
That aside, you're still wrong. Stalkers, for example were never nerfed "way back when". But they were buffed...and rather well, at that.
[ QUOTE ]
I just love when people assume that forum reg dates are the same as when someone started the game...
That aside, you're still wrong. Stalkers, for example were never nerfed "way back when". But they were buffed...and rather well, at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC they came in underpowered.
If you want a recent example of the bias PGT villainside.
Not only was it a rapid and major nerf, there was no thought to the need to either rebalance the set or allow people to respec.( Most would probably want to respec out of traps and would probably just delete the chars in disgust, but the principle is the same)
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I just love when people assume that forum reg dates are the same as when someone started the game...
That aside, you're still wrong. Stalkers, for example were never nerfed "way back when". But they were buffed...and rather well, at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC they came in underpowered.
If you want a recent example of the bias PGT villainside.
Not only was it a rapid and major nerf, there was no thought to the need to either rebalance the set or allow people to respec.( Most would probably want to respec out of traps and would probably just delete the chars in disgust, but the principle is the same)
[/ QUOTE ]First things first you are right about how they were underpowered in pve. All the villains ATs came out pre-nerfed when compared to the hero counterparts. Masterminds were the only exception because there were no hero AT equal to them. Aside from stalkers stacking stealth there just really wasnt a single thing that villains did that heroes couldnt do better out of the box. The villain inherrents were tacked on to not make the pre-nerf look so bad. Heroes were all fine without their inherrents villains should have been that way too. If I had done villains I would have made corrupters have way better debuffs than defenders but much weaker buffs and heals. Doms would have had way better control than controllers without domination. Brutes would be alot more tankerish than they are, stalkers would be what they are now and masterminds would have had their epics taliored to fit the their pets. They all would have had a way to combine their pets like voltron or the constructicons.
Now about the PGT, seriously people need to chill with this. That proc thing on PGT was horribly broken and folks need to admit this. I hardly ever talk about saying something needs to be nerfed. I am in fact very anti-nerf, but the PGT thing was insane. Traps is fine after this. The range thing on the trip mines was a bug and is fixed now no one needs to be [censored] about traps.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Now about the PGT, seriously people need to chill with this. That proc thing on PGT was horribly broken and folks need to admit this. I hardly ever talk about saying something needs to be nerfed. I am in fact very anti-nerf, but the PGT thing was insane. Traps is fine after this. The range thing on the trip mines was a bug and is fixed now no one needs to be [censored] about traps.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be content with Poison Trap working how it did at the end of i8. But it was nerfed last issue, too. I don't care about the procs if it actually, I dunno, holds things. I wanted to make things puke, instead I'm the one feeling sick to my stomach as the whole spawn just ignores the green cloud and runs right past it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I just love when people assume that forum reg dates are the same as when someone started the game...
That aside, you're still wrong. Stalkers, for example were never nerfed "way back when". But they were buffed...and rather well, at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC they came in underpowered.
If you want a recent example of the bias PGT villainside.
Not only was it a rapid and major nerf, there was no thought to the need to either rebalance the set or allow people to respec.( Most would probably want to respec out of traps and would probably just delete the chars in disgust, but the principle is the same)
[/ QUOTE ]First things first you are right about how they were underpowered in pve. All the villains ATs came out pre-nerfed when compared to the hero counterparts. Masterminds were the only exception because there were no hero AT equal to them. Aside from stalkers stacking stealth there just really wasnt a single thing that villains did that heroes couldnt do better out of the box. The villain inherrents were tacked on to not make the pre-nerf look so bad. Heroes were all fine without their inherrents villains should have been that way too. If I had done villains I would have made corrupters have way better debuffs than defenders but much weaker buffs and heals. Doms would have had way better control than controllers without domination. Brutes would be alot more tankerish than they are, stalkers would be what they are now and masterminds would have had their epics taliored to fit the their pets. They all would have had a way to combine their pets like voltron or the constructicons.
Now about the PGT, seriously people need to chill with this. That proc thing on PGT was horribly broken and folks need to admit this. I hardly ever talk about saying something needs to be nerfed. I am in fact very anti-nerf, but the PGT thing was insane. Traps is fine after this. The range thing on the trip mines was a bug and is fixed now no one needs to be [censored] about traps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Proc Shmock, The nerf hurts trappers with SO's which the game is supposed to be balanced around.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
[ QUOTE ]
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I just love when people assume that forum reg dates are the same as when someone started the game...
That aside, you're still wrong. Stalkers, for example were never nerfed "way back when". But they were buffed...and rather well, at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC they came in underpowered.
If you want a recent example of the bias PGT villainside.
Not only was it a rapid and major nerf, there was no thought to the need to either rebalance the set or allow people to respec.( Most would probably want to respec out of traps and would probably just delete the chars in disgust, but the principle is the same)
[/ QUOTE ]First things first you are right about how they were underpowered in pve. All the villains ATs came out pre-nerfed when compared to the hero counterparts. Masterminds were the only exception because there were no hero AT equal to them. Aside from stalkers stacking stealth there just really wasnt a single thing that villains did that heroes couldnt do better out of the box. The villain inherrents were tacked on to not make the pre-nerf look so bad. Heroes were all fine without their inherrents villains should have been that way too. If I had done villains I would have made corrupters have way better debuffs than defenders but much weaker buffs and heals. Doms would have had way better control than controllers without domination. Brutes would be alot more tankerish than they are, stalkers would be what they are now and masterminds would have had their epics taliored to fit the their pets. They all would have had a way to combine their pets like voltron or the constructicons.
Now about the PGT, seriously people need to chill with this. That proc thing on PGT was horribly broken and folks need to admit this. I hardly ever talk about saying something needs to be nerfed. I am in fact very anti-nerf, but the PGT thing was insane. Traps is fine after this. The range thing on the trip mines was a bug and is fixed now no one needs to be [censored] about traps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Must be so easy to see things clearly from up on that high horse - eh Ryu.
Here's the thing - most of us who play and love traps *have* been saying that the way it reacted to damage procs was at best a cheap gimick and that yes - it needed to go and needed to go quickly. In the process though they've created a power that provides 1/8th the mitigation of Freezing Rain. All without any comment.
All most of us have been saying is that we'd like to have back some of the mitigation potential that was lost when they tried (and failed) to fix the proc issue in I12 (that was when the tick rate went from 4 per second to 1 per second). Even at that rate the new PGT offers just less than 1/2 the mitigation of FR - but that would at least be a start.
But no - it's much more fun to focus on the one or 2 posters who are whining about their exploit being gone - thanks for playing into their hands. As an example of overraction and tinkering to no real effect I think PGT does kind of stand out (not just in this issue, but going back to I12).
If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
Those people likely aren't getting anything out of the system as it stands. They likely don't care much, either. Casual players aren't lusting after set builds.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
But now they'll have some leverage. Under the current system you could theoretically run TFs until the servers shut down and never get the C drop you wanted. Under the new system, you can set a goal, schedule your TFs and then that goal has a due date. If someone wants to sell you the drop you're working towards you can say "I don't need this. I'll get it in (e.g.) three weeks if I just keep doing what I'm doing." That's exactly where you want to be at the start of negotiations, and that's why our would-be Trumps are so eagerly pushing the FUD.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
If the new design philosophy is that you have to run TF's in order to get even the moderate level of rewards that I do today - then I'm going to be on the outside looking in.
Run flashbacks. The payouts aren't as good as TFs in terms of merit/unit time, but they don't suffer from diminishing returns either.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Seriously You think 120 million inf is absurd compared to running 5 positrons ?
Yes. Easily. Positron is not hard with the right group construction (i.e., small).
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously You think 120 million inf is absurd compared to running 5 positrons ?
Yes. Easily. Positron is not hard with the right group construction (i.e., small).
[/ QUOTE ]
I run TF's rarely I am not a casual but I am not a power gamer either I kind of fall in between in the middle of those.
The reason i run few TF's comes down to time and when I play mainly off hours I rarely stay logged on for more than 2 hours sometimes I log in for 15 minutes yep a door mission and log type stuff all I have.
So with the current changes I should never team again with my lvl 50 unless I do a tf. Because it is a better return for me to run one or 2 orbous over and over again because I can get there times dowm to 3-10 minutes ranges and just power cycle through them every time I log on. Just take the same toon and grind it out over and over if I team it slows me down.
I run with a lot of pugs as it is how does this help the game. I think the system discourage teaming and will cause issues
That is my humble opinion on where this will be going.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
[ QUOTE ]
If the new design philosophy is that you have to run TF's in order to get even the moderate level of rewards that I do today - then I'm going to be on the outside looking in.
Run flashbacks. The payouts aren't as good as TFs in terms of merit/unit time, but they don't suffer from diminishing returns either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be fine with that - so long as I am still able to team to do this. I am a bit concerned that the fact that only the arc holder gets the reward will make it harder to construct teams for this kind of play. I do not play this game to solo, so if that's what I have to do to support my IO habbit, then I'll probably be unhappy.
Look, I get it, you HATE the market. It's not like I'm its biggest fan, but here's the thing - if you have some patience it can be a way to convert INF (something I can get) into Recipes (some of which I never get). I'm a casual player in terms of playtime. I play at most 8 hours per week (and usually a lot less). I play in sessions that average an hour in length (typically in lieu of some TV after the kids are put to bed). My richest toon is a lvl 50 villain who has about 40Mil on him.
Yet... I still am able to make use of set IOs and have a lot of fun with them. I go after the low to mid cost items (I cringe if I have to pay more than 2mil for something) and am somewhat creative with them. It is one of the few remaining reasons that I play the game (going on 4 years now and I've pretty much worn the non-TF content to death). Although it is far from perfect, the current system is working for me and I'd prefer if they didn't mess it up. If merits turn out to be purely additive, then great. If not, I hope they do something to adjust things.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the new design philosophy is that you have to run TF's in order to get even the moderate level of rewards that I do today - then I'm going to be on the outside looking in.
Run flashbacks. The payouts aren't as good as TFs in terms of merit/unit time, but they don't suffer from diminishing returns either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be fine with that - so long as I am still able to team to do this. I am a bit concerned that the fact that only the arc holder gets the reward will make it harder to construct teams for this kind of play. I do not play this game to solo, so if that's what I have to do to support my IO habbit, then I'll probably be unhappy.
Look, I get it, you HATE the market. It's not like I'm its biggest fan, but here's the thing - if you have some patience it can be a way to convert INF (something I can get) into Recipes (some of which I never get). I'm a casual player in terms of playtime. I play at most 8 hours per week (and usually a lot less). I play in sessions that average an hour in length (typically in lieu of some TV after the kids are put to bed). My richest toon is a lvl 50 villain who has about 40Mil on him.
Yet... I still am able to make use of set IOs and have a lot of fun with them. I go after the low to mid cost items (I cringe if I have to pay more than 2mil for something) and am somewhat creative with them. It is one of the few remaining reasons that I play the game (going on 4 years now and I've pretty much worn the non-TF content to death). Although it is far from perfect, the current system is working for me and I'd prefer if they didn't mess it up. If merits turn out to be purely additive, then great. If not, I hope they do something to adjust things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Flashbacks are treated like Task/Strike Forces - everyone gets the reward.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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[ QUOTE ]
Flashbacks are treated like Task/Strike Forces - everyone gets the reward.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the info - never did any on test so I wasn't sure. This then might be a good source for me. I saw at least one suggestion for opening up the FB system earlier, which might be nice as well.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flashbacks are treated like Task/Strike Forces - everyone gets the reward.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the info - never did any on test so I wasn't sure. This then might be a good source for me. I saw at least one suggestion for opening up the FB system earlier, which might be nice as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Let me put it this way. I'm 99% sure it works this way, because everyone on team who did "Trading Places" got the enhancement at the end.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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(more of a Quick reply than reply to Poster)
If everyone gets the reward on Flashback, why cant that be changed for story arcs as well?
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the new design philosophy is that you have to run TF's in order to get even the moderate level of rewards that I do today - then I'm going to be on the outside looking in.
Run flashbacks. The payouts aren't as good as TFs in terms of merit/unit time, but they don't suffer from diminishing returns either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be fine with that - so long as I am still able to team to do this. I am a bit concerned that the fact that only the arc holder gets the reward will make it harder to construct teams for this kind of play. I do not play this game to solo, so if that's what I have to do to support my IO habbit, then I'll probably be unhappy.
Look, I get it, you HATE the market. It's not like I'm its biggest fan, but here's the thing - if you have some patience it can be a way to convert INF (something I can get) into Recipes (some of which I never get). I'm a casual player in terms of playtime. I play at most 8 hours per week (and usually a lot less). I play in sessions that average an hour in length (typically in lieu of some TV after the kids are put to bed). My richest toon is a lvl 50 villain who has about 40Mil on him.
Yet... I still am able to make use of set IOs and have a lot of fun with them. I go after the low to mid cost items (I cringe if I have to pay more than 2mil for something) and am somewhat creative with them. It is one of the few remaining reasons that I play the game (going on 4 years now and I've pretty much worn the non-TF content to death). Although it is far from perfect, the current system is working for me and I'd prefer if they didn't mess it up. If merits turn out to be purely additive, then great. If not, I hope they do something to adjust things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Flashbacks are treated like Task/Strike Forces - everyone gets the reward.
[/ QUOTE ]
You realize that a few Arcs can get you merits within the same 1 merit to 5 minutes return in the Arcs I completed one on test in 4 minutes and some give 5 merits and can be done in 25 minutes or less time frame all solo. Grouping will slow you return rate down so I think you will see a lot of solo Orbous runs for Merits to maximize there return
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
[ QUOTE ]
(more of a Quick reply than reply to Poster)
If everyone gets the reward on Flashback, why cant that be changed for story arcs as well?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing because they were able to easily bundle it in with
the handicap/badge award system flashbacks and TFs contain,
that don't come along with running story arcs normally. That's
what I would've done.
Regular story arcs are completely seperated missions, that
just happen to have an end point. People can join for the
last mission, and be there at the end of the arc, rather than
participating in all the missions the merit reward is supposably
accounting for. Since it doesn't force other players to run the
entire arc start to finish, and can just show up for the last
mission, it'd be hard to award merits without adding some kind
of bookkeeping for how much of what arc people have run as
well.
Unless someone else did all the work for them, the arc
holder is the only one guaranteed to have participated from
start to finish.
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously You think 120 million inf is absurd compared to running 5 positrons ?
Yes. Easily. Positron is not hard with the right group construction (i.e., small).
[/ QUOTE ]
5 Positrons for me = 10 hours
120 million ~ 50-60 hours
No contest
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously You think 120 million inf is absurd compared to running 5 positrons ?
Yes. Easily. Positron is not hard with the right group construction (i.e., small).
[/ QUOTE ]
5 Positrons for me = 10 hours
120 million ~ 50-60 hours
No contest
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds about the same for me, too. Seriously, a 3-man Positron is a cakewalk - and takes little time at all to complete.
@Shenalia
Triumph: Ion Force (SG)
Victory: Evil Triumphs (VG)
Proud member of the Triumphant Defenders Coalition.
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The most I've ever had at one time is 15 million and that is only because I managed to luck out and get a knockback protection IO.
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That's amazing to me. I have never had a character that failed to have at least about 20-30 million on hand by the time they reach 50. Usually they hit 10-30 million range by their late 30s early 40s
None of that is from marketing. Except from selling items acquired through killing things.