[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And people who aren't willing to pay above the arbitragers's price floor? They'll have to get it from merits, or else won't get their shinies until they change their mind.
Right, people will, when faced with absurd prices, tell the flippers to go do something biologically impossible and get what they want from merits.
I'm sure our cafeteria capitalists won't mind a little competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is, doing it with merits will take alot longer for most people than I think a lot of pro-merits posters really realize.
At 1 merit per minute - five times the devs' intended rate - it's over 3 hours of TF time to get a shiny. At the intended rate, it's about 16 hours of TF time. If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]I think you are over stating how long its going to take. Most recipe sets will have only 2 pool c rares and possible 1 pool d rare. You just use merits on the pool c's if they are too high on the market. Since almost all of pool d's good but 2 recipes it wont be so bad to take random roll for that. So you are looking at most 500 merits per power that is using a set IO. Alot of powers will not use sets at all, some will use HOs for better slotting. Everything else you just use the market for. The thing is they wont dare raise the prices on non-purples because we have an alternative now. So basically if people want to be able to sell at all they will have to keep stuff reasonable. It wont work like this initially but after the first month or so and everyone has found out about merits things will drastically change.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about getting one pool C by deterministic choice. Not a full build. Not even a full power's worth of inventions. Just one pool C recipe choice.
200 merits. At 1 minute per merit that's 200 minutes (3 hours, 20 minutes). At 5 minutes per merit, that's 1,000 minutes or 16 hours, 40 minutes.
Assuming you do the intended 5 minutes per merit rate, at 3 hours of taskforce time per week it's going to take you 6 weeks (you'll have a few merits left over). To get one 200-merit recipe.
Edit - at your 500 merits per power, EvilRyu, that's 41 hours, 40 minutes of taskforce time per power at 5 minutes to the merit. In a build where you're slotting say 12 powers with inventions at 500 merits per power, it's going to take 500 hours.
At 3 hours of taskforce time per week, it'll take you 166 weeks and 5 days to get your build. That's 3 years, 2 and a half months.
Now tell me again how this is good for the casual player? Storyarc merits? Heck they could give so many merits from storyarcs as to knock a full two years off the time to completion and the casual player would still be boned here.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And people who aren't willing to pay above the arbitragers's price floor? They'll have to get it from merits, or else won't get their shinies until they change their mind.
Right, people will, when faced with absurd prices, tell the flippers to go do something biologically impossible and get what they want from merits.
I'm sure our cafeteria capitalists won't mind a little competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is, doing it with merits will take alot longer for most people than I think a lot of pro-merits posters really realize.
At 1 merit per minute - five times the devs' intended rate - it's over 3 hours of TF time to get a shiny. At the intended rate, it's about 16 hours of TF time. If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]I think you are over stating how long its going to take. Most recipe sets will have only 2 pool c rares and possible 1 pool d rare. You just use merits on the pool c's if they are too high on the market. Since almost all of pool d's good but 2 recipes it wont be so bad to take random roll for that. So you are looking at most 500 merits per power that is using a set IO. Alot of powers will not use sets at all, some will use HOs for better slotting. Everything else you just use the market for. The thing is they wont dare raise the prices on non-purples because we have an alternative now. So basically if people want to be able to sell at all they will have to keep stuff reasonable. It wont work like this initially but after the first month or so and everyone has found out about merits things will drastically change.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about getting one pool C by deterministic choice. Not a full build. Not even a full power's worth of inventions. Just one pool C recipe choice.
200 merits. At 1 minute per merit that's 200 minutes (3 hours, 20 minutes). At 5 minutes per merit, that's 1,000 minutes or 16 hours, 40 minutes.
Assuming you do the intended 5 minutes per merit rate, at 3 hours of taskforce time per week it's going to take you 6 weeks (you'll have a few merits left over). To get one 200-merit recipe.
Edit - at your 500 merits per power, EvilRyu, that's 41 hours, 40 minutes of taskforce time per power at 5 minutes to the merit. In a build where you're slotting say 12 powers with inventions at 500 merits per power, it's going to take 500 hours.
At 3 hours of taskforce time per week, it'll take you 166 weeks and 5 days to get your build. That's 3 years, 2 and a half months.
Now tell me again how this is good for the casual player? Storyarc merits? Heck they could give so many merits from storyarcs as to knock a full two years off the time to completion and the casual player would still be boned here.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me at least I don't think it is that bad - but it's still potentially bad. I posted a pretty typical build for me which cost me easily less than 15M to construct. That build uses just south of 1600 merits of Pool C IO's (nothing more fancy than the Scirrocos Tripple) at lvl 37. If I were to have to purchase those IOs using merits only then it would take me 44 weeks of TF time using the metrics above. The 3 hours of TF time per week is pretty accurate for me, I just don't use quite as many IOs as you are suggesting (but more than Ryu seems to assume).
So that's just under a year of play time to build that toon via direct merit purchase. Clearly that's not going to happen. What's less clear is whether doing it that way will be necessary. For this system to mesh well with my personal playstyle the market for those mid-level Pool C's needs to continue to exist in roughly its current form (I could stand a little inflation, but if a Scirroco's tripple starts cost 20M+ then I'm not getting one).
This is why I don't get the folks who are gleefully rubbing their hands and saying "goodie - death to the market". If the market dies, then so does my ability to create the builds that I do today. People picking up their marbles (merits) and bypassing the market to get exactly what they want is the one thing I'm terrified of. Because if that happens it is going to take me 44 weeks to build my very modest character - how is that good for me?
Actually TheWeaver, it gets worse.
Players who don't need anything for the moment - like, I have 4 characters with fully loaded builds who will never need another IO unless the game changes and I need/want to respec them - can just sit on their merits and not produce anything for the market.
In fact, it's smarter for me to hoard merits than it is to exchange merits for things to sell on the market. The 5-10 TFs I normally run per week are going create merits that will stay in my pocket after I13, instead of 5-10 random recipes that I post for sale because I don't need them.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
[ QUOTE ]
Actually TheWeaver, it gets worse.
Players who don't need anything for the moment - like, I have 4 characters with fully loaded builds who will never need another IO unless the game changes and I need/want to respec them - can just sit on their merits and not produce anything for the market.
In fact, it's smarter for me to hoard merits than it is to exchange merits for things to sell on the market. The 5-10 TFs I normally run per week are going create merits that will stay in my pocket after I13, instead of 5-10 random recipes that I post for sale because I don't need them.
[/ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
If Flux's choice is reflective of what happens in the game at large - then yes, I think I'm screwed. At least until the devs re-adjust things to account for this behavior. From everything I've heard from the devs they seem to believe that hoarding won't be the norm - not that I necessarily agree with them. I just hope they are right (or have a plan for what to do when they are wrong).
Otherwise I will be effectively shut out from a part of the game that I personally enjoy - the building of non-cookie cutter toons via modest usage of set IOs. Currently the market is a means to that end and I don't see merits as a replacement means.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And people who aren't willing to pay above the arbitragers's price floor? They'll have to get it from merits, or else won't get their shinies until they change their mind.
Right, people will, when faced with absurd prices, tell the flippers to go do something biologically impossible and get what they want from merits.
I'm sure our cafeteria capitalists won't mind a little competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is, doing it with merits will take alot longer for most people than I think a lot of pro-merits posters really realize.
At 1 merit per minute - five times the devs' intended rate - it's over 3 hours of TF time to get a shiny. At the intended rate, it's about 16 hours of TF time. If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]I think you are over stating how long its going to take. Most recipe sets will have only 2 pool c rares and possible 1 pool d rare. You just use merits on the pool c's if they are too high on the market. Since almost all of pool d's good but 2 recipes it wont be so bad to take random roll for that. So you are looking at most 500 merits per power that is using a set IO. Alot of powers will not use sets at all, some will use HOs for better slotting. Everything else you just use the market for. The thing is they wont dare raise the prices on non-purples because we have an alternative now. So basically if people want to be able to sell at all they will have to keep stuff reasonable. It wont work like this initially but after the first month or so and everyone has found out about merits things will drastically change.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about getting one pool C by deterministic choice. Not a full build. Not even a full power's worth of inventions. Just one pool C recipe choice.
200 merits. At 1 minute per merit that's 200 minutes (3 hours, 20 minutes). At 5 minutes per merit, that's 1,000 minutes or 16 hours, 40 minutes.
Assuming you do the intended 5 minutes per merit rate, at 3 hours of taskforce time per week it's going to take you 6 weeks (you'll have a few merits left over). To get one 200-merit recipe.
Edit - at your 500 merits per power, EvilRyu, that's 41 hours, 40 minutes of taskforce time per power at 5 minutes to the merit. In a build where you're slotting say 12 powers with inventions at 500 merits per power, it's going to take 500 hours.
At 3 hours of taskforce time per week, it'll take you 166 weeks and 5 days to get your build. That's 3 years, 2 and a half months.
Now tell me again how this is good for the casual player? Storyarc merits? Heck they could give so many merits from storyarcs as to knock a full two years off the time to completion and the casual player would still be boned here.
[/ QUOTE ]Seriously I dont think its going to be 1 merit for 5 minutes. If it is taking that long on alot of those task then you are just doing it wrong. I am looking at doing 90 minute ITFs. Thats about 10 to get what you want, which would be closer to 15 hours of game time per IO. It cant be any worse than it is now. Seriously dude I started a toon a few months back and did all the heroside tfs except the shard tfs and didnt get [censored] that was useable for that character. It was either snipes, confuses, and other various trash drops. Many of those TFs I ran multiple times. Given the total time I put into it I would say its way more 16 hours per recipe. I think the problem you are seeing is that folks wont put much time into the tfs. I think people will be more willing to put time into tfs after the changes. So that 3 hour per week could end up being 10 to 15 hours per week
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually TheWeaver, it gets worse.
Players who don't need anything for the moment - like, I have 4 characters with fully loaded builds who will never need another IO unless the game changes and I need/want to respec them - can just sit on their merits and not produce anything for the market.
In fact, it's smarter for me to hoard merits than it is to exchange merits for things to sell on the market. The 5-10 TFs I normally run per week are going create merits that will stay in my pocket after I13, instead of 5-10 random recipes that I post for sale because I don't need them.
[/ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sitting on them is smarter because the devs have announced that they intend to 'adjust' merit rewards in the future based on new datamining of average TF times. In short, nerf TF rewards in the future.
My future characters, if I make more characters that I want to heavily IO out, will thus want those merits from now later 
Merits don't go stale, or take up auction slots or need to be risked in SG storage bins (I'm not in a personal SG), unlike recipes and enhancers, their buying power is stable and they can be redeemed for more than one useful shiny. So they're a much, much better value-storage medium than anything currently available - recipes, enhancers, or influence.
I don't think most people, however powergamery, are going to fully tweak and perfectly IO out every character. I think my having 4 is a lot; additional characters I'm making and playing now are more for-fun, not to min/max. Most people I know don't try for more than one or two fully min/max'd characters.
Influence, meanwhile, is very easily farmed. Why exchange merits for influence when if influence is what I want, I can make more of it faster another way? Furthermore, I can use that large amount of influence I can create, to engage in arbitrage, which will be easier, not harder, since market supply is going to go down as 1 TF run no longer will equal one recipe. I wouldn't need to produce recipes to supply the market to profit off the market - you'd supply the market and I'd profit off you.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And people who aren't willing to pay above the arbitragers's price floor? They'll have to get it from merits, or else won't get their shinies until they change their mind.
Right, people will, when faced with absurd prices, tell the flippers to go do something biologically impossible and get what they want from merits.
I'm sure our cafeteria capitalists won't mind a little competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is, doing it with merits will take alot longer for most people than I think a lot of pro-merits posters really realize.
At 1 merit per minute - five times the devs' intended rate - it's over 3 hours of TF time to get a shiny. At the intended rate, it's about 16 hours of TF time. If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]I think you are over stating how long its going to take. Most recipe sets will have only 2 pool c rares and possible 1 pool d rare. You just use merits on the pool c's if they are too high on the market. Since almost all of pool d's good but 2 recipes it wont be so bad to take random roll for that. So you are looking at most 500 merits per power that is using a set IO. Alot of powers will not use sets at all, some will use HOs for better slotting. Everything else you just use the market for. The thing is they wont dare raise the prices on non-purples because we have an alternative now. So basically if people want to be able to sell at all they will have to keep stuff reasonable. It wont work like this initially but after the first month or so and everyone has found out about merits things will drastically change.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about getting one pool C by deterministic choice. Not a full build. Not even a full power's worth of inventions. Just one pool C recipe choice.
200 merits. At 1 minute per merit that's 200 minutes (3 hours, 20 minutes). At 5 minutes per merit, that's 1,000 minutes or 16 hours, 40 minutes.
Assuming you do the intended 5 minutes per merit rate, at 3 hours of taskforce time per week it's going to take you 6 weeks (you'll have a few merits left over). To get one 200-merit recipe.
Edit - at your 500 merits per power, EvilRyu, that's 41 hours, 40 minutes of taskforce time per power at 5 minutes to the merit. In a build where you're slotting say 12 powers with inventions at 500 merits per power, it's going to take 500 hours.
At 3 hours of taskforce time per week, it'll take you 166 weeks and 5 days to get your build. That's 3 years, 2 and a half months.
Now tell me again how this is good for the casual player? Storyarc merits? Heck they could give so many merits from storyarcs as to knock a full two years off the time to completion and the casual player would still be boned here.
[/ QUOTE ]Seriously I dont think its going to be 1 merit for 5 minutes. If it is taking that long on alot of those task then you are just doing it wrong. I am looking at doing 90 minute ITFs. Thats about 10 to get what you want, which would be closer to 15 hours of game time per IO. It cant be any worse than it is now. Seriously dude I started a toon a few months back and did all the heroside tfs except the shard tfs and didnt get [censored] that was useable for that character. It was either snipes, confuses, and other various trash drops. Many of those TFs I ran multiple times. Given the total time I put into it I would say its way more 16 hours per recipe. I think the problem you are seeing is that folks wont put much time into the tfs. I think people will be more willing to put time into tfs after the changes. So that 3 hour per week could end up being 10 to 15 hours per week
[/ QUOTE ]
It would be interesting (for me at least) to understand if the devs are also aiming for this result. Are they hoping to get folks to run more TF's and thus balancing around that result?
Again, I really hope not. The fact that I can only spend on average 3 hours per week on TF's (actually my average is a lot lower than that) has nothing to do with desire. It has to do with playtime. I simply don't get 3 hour blocks of time to do TFs in and while it is possible to split a TF over multiple runs - it is often hard to find folks willing to do that (except for the insanely long ones).
So I'd love to run more TF's and I'd love to run some of the longer ones (I've never done an LGTF for instance, though I'd love to) - I just simply don't have the time. One of the things that I've always loved about COH is that other than not getting to see the TF content, I'm not really penalized for this playstyle. If the new design philosophy is that you have to run TF's in order to get even the moderate level of rewards that I do today - then I'm going to be on the outside looking in.
I hope that's not what the devs are going for here, but if it is, I'd like to know now so I can adjust accordingly.
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously I dont think its going to be 1 merit for 5 minutes. If it is taking that long on alot of those task then you are just doing it wrong. I am looking at doing 90 minute ITFs. Thats about 10 to get what you want, which would be closer to 15 hours of game time per IO. It cant be any worse than it is now. Seriously dude I started a toon a few months back and did all the heroside tfs except the shard tfs and didnt get [censored] that was useable for that character. It was either snipes, confuses, and other various trash drops. Many of those TFs I ran multiple times. Given the total time I put into it I would say its way more 16 hours per recipe. I think the problem you are seeing is that folks wont put much time into the tfs. I think people will be more willing to put time into tfs after the changes. So that 3 hour per week could end up being 10 to 15 hours per week
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately the devs have stated their intention to nerf rewards if the playerbase at large beats the 1 merit per 5 minutes metric by enough. So if you do better, they'll try to stop you.
Expect it in I14. I do, and I'll be behaving accordingly during I13.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And people who aren't willing to pay above the arbitragers's price floor? They'll have to get it from merits, or else won't get their shinies until they change their mind.
Right, people will, when faced with absurd prices, tell the flippers to go do something biologically impossible and get what they want from merits.
I'm sure our cafeteria capitalists won't mind a little competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is, doing it with merits will take alot longer for most people than I think a lot of pro-merits posters really realize.
At 1 merit per minute - five times the devs' intended rate - it's over 3 hours of TF time to get a shiny. At the intended rate, it's about 16 hours of TF time. If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]I think you are over stating how long its going to take. Most recipe sets will have only 2 pool c rares and possible 1 pool d rare. You just use merits on the pool c's if they are too high on the market. Since almost all of pool d's good but 2 recipes it wont be so bad to take random roll for that. So you are looking at most 500 merits per power that is using a set IO. Alot of powers will not use sets at all, some will use HOs for better slotting. Everything else you just use the market for. The thing is they wont dare raise the prices on non-purples because we have an alternative now. So basically if people want to be able to sell at all they will have to keep stuff reasonable. It wont work like this initially but after the first month or so and everyone has found out about merits things will drastically change.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about getting one pool C by deterministic choice. Not a full build. Not even a full power's worth of inventions. Just one pool C recipe choice.
200 merits. At 1 minute per merit that's 200 minutes (3 hours, 20 minutes). At 5 minutes per merit, that's 1,000 minutes or 16 hours, 40 minutes.
Assuming you do the intended 5 minutes per merit rate, at 3 hours of taskforce time per week it's going to take you 6 weeks (you'll have a few merits left over). To get one 200-merit recipe.
Edit - at your 500 merits per power, EvilRyu, that's 41 hours, 40 minutes of taskforce time per power at 5 minutes to the merit. In a build where you're slotting say 12 powers with inventions at 500 merits per power, it's going to take 500 hours.
At 3 hours of taskforce time per week, it'll take you 166 weeks and 5 days to get your build. That's 3 years, 2 and a half months.
Now tell me again how this is good for the casual player? Storyarc merits? Heck they could give so many merits from storyarcs as to knock a full two years off the time to completion and the casual player would still be boned here.
[/ QUOTE ]Seriously I dont think its going to be 1 merit for 5 minutes. If it is taking that long on alot of those task then you are just doing it wrong. I am looking at doing 90 minute ITFs. Thats about 10 to get what you want, which would be closer to 15 hours of game time per IO. It cant be any worse than it is now. Seriously dude I started a toon a few months back and did all the heroside tfs except the shard tfs and didnt get [censored] that was useable for that character. It was either snipes, confuses, and other various trash drops. Many of those TFs I ran multiple times. Given the total time I put into it I would say its way more 16 hours per recipe. I think the problem you are seeing is that folks wont put much time into the tfs. I think people will be more willing to put time into tfs after the changes. So that 3 hour per week could end up being 10 to 15 hours per week
[/ QUOTE ]
It would be interesting (for me at least) to understand if the devs are also aiming for this result. Are they hoping to get folks to run more TF's and thus balancing around that result?
Again, I really hope not. The fact that I can only spend on average 3 hours per week on TF's (actually my average is a lot lower than that) has nothing to do with desire. It has to do with playtime. I simply don't get 3 hour blocks of time to do TFs in and while it is possible to split a TF over multiple runs - it is often hard to find folks willing to do that (except for the insanely long ones).
So I'd love to run more TF's and I'd love to run some of the longer ones (I've never done an LGTF for instance, though I'd love to) - I just simply don't have the time. One of the things that I've always loved about COH is that other than not getting to see the TF content, I'm not really penalized for this playstyle. If the new design philosophy is that you have to run TF's in order to get even the moderate level of rewards that I do today - then I'm going to be on the outside looking in.
I hope that's not what the devs are going for here, but if it is, I'd like to know now so I can adjust accordingly.
[/ QUOTE ]I hate to say it but your just going to have to juggle something around to get more play time if your truely want the rewards, other wise just take the random roll. The thing is you cant lower the merit cost too much or give way too many merits per task otherwise you would just end up making them free because we would have way too many of the items out there. I think what they have now is about where things need to be. The only thing we need is HOs and purples and the system will be perfect for the most part.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting on them is smarter because the devs have announced that they intend to 'adjust' merit rewards in the future based on new datamining of average TF times. In short, nerf TF rewards in the future.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really care what adjustments they make to the Merits. I plan to play the same as always. I'm not here to nickle and dime the market/merits for the easiest reward for the least amount of work.
I play for the fun of being a super villain or super hero. Somewhere, somehow...this simple principle has become skewed or even forgotten in this quest for the uber IOs.
[ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing new in seeing that people don't know how to manage resources to their own advantage.
Too many alts to list.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing new in seeing that people don't know how to manage resources to their own advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you speaking to me?
Synapse,
Here is my question (with some brief setup):
I never do Story Arcs these days, since I've done most of them, and often I don't like them anyway. I never do task forces. I almost EXCLUSIVELY do newspaper and radio missions, including lots of newspaper and radio door missions with my level 50 characters.
I'm accustomed to being able to buy whatever I want off the market, over time, without currently doing anything that earns me merits. None of the content I enjoy currently will generate merits for me.
Will I still be able to buy all the recipes I am accustomed to buying easily? By this, I mean I hope to still buy everything I need that isnt purple and that isnt Numina/Miracle recovery uniques.
I'm concerned that since I do NOTHING that generates merits, and that since the market is changing, I wont be able to frankenslot my characters. Or will all this vanish for me?
Thanks,
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing new in seeing that people don't know how to manage resources to their own advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you speaking to me?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, of course not. I just used the quote feature on a lark.
Too many alts to list.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting on them is smarter because the devs have announced that they intend to 'adjust' merit rewards in the future based on new datamining of average TF times. In short, nerf TF rewards in the future.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really care what adjustments they make to the Merits. I plan to play the same as always. I'm not here to nickle and dime the market/merits for the easiest reward for the least amount of work.
I play for the fun of being a super villain or super hero. Somewhere, somehow...this simple principle has become skewed or even forgotten in this quest for the uber IOs.
[/ QUOTE ]
My playstyle won't change either. Well, I might do even more TFs, so that I don't feel like I missed the gravy train before it left the station when they nerf the rewards.
What I do with what comes out of my playstyle is what will change, because I won't want to use the game's newest most-valuable resource - ie merits - to do something (make influence) that I'd do better in other ways. So instead of posting the results of my TF play to the market, it'll sit in my pocket until I need it for another character.
Edit - basically, I'd replace much of the inventions buying power I currently hold in influence, with buying power held in merits instead. I don't spend all my influence as soon as I make it either... all that'll be changing, to me, is what currency I'm keeping my wealth in - merits currency, instead of influence.
Like buying euros or even gold because you're worried about the value of the dollar.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously I dont think its going to be 1 merit for 5 minutes. If it is taking that long on alot of those task then you are just doing it wrong. I am looking at doing 90 minute ITFs. Thats about 10 to get what you want, which would be closer to 15 hours of game time per IO. It cant be any worse than it is now. Seriously dude I started a toon a few months back and did all the heroside tfs except the shard tfs and didnt get [censored] that was useable for that character. It was either snipes, confuses, and other various trash drops. Many of those TFs I ran multiple times. Given the total time I put into it I would say its way more 16 hours per recipe. I think the problem you are seeing is that folks wont put much time into the tfs. I think people will be more willing to put time into tfs after the changes. So that 3 hour per week could end up being 10 to 15 hours per week
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately the devs have stated their intention to nerf rewards if the playerbase at large beats the 1 merit per 5 minutes metric by enough. So if you do better, they'll try to stop you.
Expect it in I14. I do, and I'll be behaving accordingly during I13.
[/ QUOTE ]
I bet the devs will be changing that metric on how they award merits soon after issue 13. The reason I say that is because merits over time just will not work well in this game and be fair to everyone. In the case of the Eden trial i still dont see how anyone manages to do it in 10 minutes. Hell It takes me 15 minutes to navigate to the first wall because of all the freaking holes keep looping you back to the begining. I see them changing it to a checkpoint system where if certain task get met they will award merits accordingly, time will only factor in the undesirable tfs like Posi and Dr. Q, because they will have to make those worth the time.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
QR (I'z hates the pyramids)
I hate to say it but your just going to have to juggle something around to get more play time if your truely want the rewards, other wise just take the random roll. The thing is you cant lower the merit cost too much or give way too many merits per task otherwise you would just end up making them free because we would have way too many of the items out there. I think what they have now is about where things need to be. The only thing we need is HOs and purples and the system will be perfect for the most part.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the way Synapse has been framing it. The merit system is supposed to be *additive* for a player like me. A way to get the occasional high level IO that I just can't today. That's what he keeps saying in pretty much every response.
That can only be true if the market for mid-level Pool C recipes remains pretty much just as it is now or if some other, non merit based method of obtaining them is added. Otherwise as you state I'm not going to be able to obtain even the modest level of reward that I do today.
I know that lots of people hate the markets and want nothing to do with them. I'm just trying to point out that there is a segment of the player base that relies on them - not as a means for evil flipping or being a billionaire - but just to add some flavor to my toons. I'd hate to see that destroyed in this process.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to remind players that only a handful of tasks in the game had their rewards reduced, however the majority of tasks in the game have had their rewards significantly increased and that now story arcs give players a chance at earning rewards that might otherwise be unattainable.
[/ QUOTE ]
While this is true, it may discourage teaming for most arcs. Many players will want to solo their arcs to get merits.
For some arcs (those in Faultline and Croatoa) players on a team can all start working with a contact at the same time and get the same missions in the same sequence. This is good for teaming and getting merits.
For the majority of arcs, however, the missions are doled out in random order. The contacts also seem to include non-arc missions depending on your level. This makes it effectively impossible to run the arc simultaneously for multiple players on the team.
It would therefore be very nice if there were some mechanism for characters to get the missions in the same order to allow synchronized completion.
Ouroboros does provide a mechanism to do this, but is has problems: You have to be level 25 to get there, and one of the characters has to be above the level range and will not get any experience for the missions.
There are probably a lot of solutions to this, but here's a possibility that could fit into the existing system fairly well.
If you're the team leader and you haven't done any of the missions for a contact yet, there'll be another option with the contact that starts the arc as a TF (essentially be the same as running the mission out of Ouroboros, but without any flashback).
It would follow all the same rules as running any Ouroboros arc, except that if you're at the max level or lower you'd get experience just as you would for any TF you do when you're in the level range.
You get merits for running it this way because the team is dedicated to the task like any TF. Once the team leader completes the arc this way they're done with the contact, as normal. If you abandon the arc you'd be set back to the beginning -- it wouldn't remember which missions you did in the arc. You could then either restart the arc as a TF, or as a normal set of missions.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR (I'z hates the pyramids)
I hate to say it but your just going to have to juggle something around to get more play time if your truely want the rewards, other wise just take the random roll. The thing is you cant lower the merit cost too much or give way too many merits per task otherwise you would just end up making them free because we would have way too many of the items out there. I think what they have now is about where things need to be. The only thing we need is HOs and purples and the system will be perfect for the most part.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the way Synapse has been framing it. The merit system is supposed to be *additive* for a player like me. A way to get the occasional high level IO that I just can't today. That's what he keeps saying in pretty much every response.
That can only be true if the market for mid-level Pool C recipes remains pretty much just as it is now or if some other, non merit based method of obtaining them is added. Otherwise as you state I'm not going to be able to obtain even the modest level of reward that I do today.
I know that lots of people hate the markets and want nothing to do with them. I'm just trying to point out that there is a segment of the player base that relies on them - not as a means for evil flipping or being a billionaire - but just to add some flavor to my toons. I'd hate to see that destroyed in this process.
[/ QUOTE ]For people who can not play as much this system really doesnt help much or hurt you much either way. The thing is you will eventually get something were as before you had a snowballs chance in hell at a good drop. Its all going to be about a playstyle change. I know for me I will be doing tfs and such for the first 2 to 3 months with my 50s getting builds ready for the lowbies to respec into. In the time I am not playing the lowbies they will be getting the badges for day jobs so basically its full of win for me either way. I plan on having every proc or special IO for each toon at the earlies possible level so they can slot it and it work for them all the way to lvl 50. It will take some time, but when I can set it up I can use the lowbies on the TFs as they level. I dont intend to do story arcs at all on my support toons. They will be TF only. I just think you need to plan a system out where you get max merits over time using multiple characters.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing new in seeing that people don't know how to manage resources to their own advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you speaking to me?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, of course not. I just used the quote feature on a lark.
[/ QUOTE ]
Care to elaborate your position or you here mainly to troll and look like an [censored]?
For all the people who have claimed to be "Good at math" or similar, and have stated that Pool C is "full of garbage":
I counted!
I don't know if the new IO's keep the roughly 1:2 good:bad ratio.
But 12 rolls looks better to me, assuming the market doesn't dry up and blow away, than one LOTG.
And speed-TF'ers are going to do that math. Or one of them is going to do the math and the knowledge will spread.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For my characters that are completed IOed, they will use their merits to obtain IOs for my other heroes/villains. Or they will use their merits to obtain IOs and then place them on the market for profit or to obtain something else entirely.
They won't be sitting on them...how silly. You are a doomsayer, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing new in seeing that people don't know how to manage resources to their own advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you speaking to me?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, of course not. I just used the quote feature on a lark.
[/ QUOTE ]
Care to elaborate your position or you here mainly to troll and look like an [censored]?
[/ QUOTE ]
If my initial comment wasn't clear enough, I probably can't help you.
Too many alts to list.
[ QUOTE ]
For all the people who have claimed to be "Good at math" or similar, and have stated that Pool C is "full of garbage":
I counted!
I don't know if the new IO's keep the roughly 1:2 good:bad ratio.
But 12 rolls looks better to me, assuming the market doesn't dry up and blow away, than one LOTG.
And speed-TF'ers are going to do that math. Or one of them is going to do the math and the knowledge will spread.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looking at your list, I can trim off eight that I personally never use and wouldn't particularly want. So now you're down to 11 of 52, which means that 78.8% of pool C is crap - as opposed to the 80% claim that people made up off the top of their head.
It also gets worse as you lower the level of the roll and add in more "who the heck wants this?" recipes.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And people who aren't willing to pay above the arbitragers's price floor? They'll have to get it from merits, or else won't get their shinies until they change their mind.
Right, people will, when faced with absurd prices, tell the flippers to go do something biologically impossible and get what they want from merits.
I'm sure our cafeteria capitalists won't mind a little competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is, doing it with merits will take alot longer for most people than I think a lot of pro-merits posters really realize.
At 1 merit per minute - five times the devs' intended rate - it's over 3 hours of TF time to get a shiny. At the intended rate, it's about 16 hours of TF time. If you do one to two TFs a week like a lot of casual players do (if that... many I know do maybe 2 TFs a month), at the intended rate you're going to take 4 to 6 weeks to save enough merits for that shiny... unless you actually want to have fun on your TFs and focus on the newer ones (ITF, LGTF, etc) or are a villain, in which cases it will take 8 to 10 weeks.
So I think a lot of people will either end up paying whatever the market wants since it's easier for the casual player to get influence than it is for them to get merits, or they won't get their shinies for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]I think you are over stating how long its going to take. Most recipe sets will have only 2 pool c rares and possible 1 pool d rare. You just use merits on the pool c's if they are too high on the market. Since almost all of pool d's good but 2 recipes it wont be so bad to take random roll for that. So you are looking at most 500 merits per power that is using a set IO. Alot of powers will not use sets at all, some will use HOs for better slotting. Everything else you just use the market for. The thing is they wont dare raise the prices on non-purples because we have an alternative now. So basically if people want to be able to sell at all they will have to keep stuff reasonable. It wont work like this initially but after the first month or so and everyone has found out about merits things will drastically change.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!