Issue 13 Open Beta

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I’d like to take this time to go into more on the designs for some of the new stuff in Issue 13.

Bases:
We’ve made some changes to the way players deal with bases. Overall things got a lot less expensive, Prestige-wise, in bases.

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Prestige maybe, the OTHER costs went through the roof.

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This means that smaller SGs should be able to accomplish more with their bases now.

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This is simply untrue. Smaller SGs will be forced to used the Market System (something you promised in Issue 9 that people would not be forced to use) to even craft a tier 1 item like a telepad, because you have chosen to include rare salvage. To make matters worse, you've made Invention Salvage needed for dual builds, empowerment stations, as well as using the salvage required for the "power 10" IOs.

All this amounts to an overall increase in prices. Prices that I must add will be borne mainly by Group Leaders and Base Architects. This is ESPECIALLY true in SGs that are fewer than 6 people.

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If your SG wants to take advantage of the new, lower, prices, you’re going to have to do a little work in selling the older items, and buying the new, lower priced items. It’s an unfortunate artifact of the way the base system was designed that we can’t just refund your SG the difference straight away.

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Which shows that this change should have been held back until such a fix could have been implemented. Instead, in your rush to push through a poorly thought out change, you are off loading the conversion to players. Now you will have to maintain two sets of base items until such time that you can get around to automating the switchover.

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We’ve also eliminated the need for Base Salvage. Now everything in bases can be built with Invention Salvage.

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Thus you've went beyond ignoring the players concerns (which have been brought up repeatedly in the base section for the last month) to fix a non-existent problem of people "not understanding the difference between base and invention salvage". A problem, I might add, that could have been fixed with a simple text change to "Base Salvage Found".

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You will even be able to convert all that extra Base Salvage into Invention Salvage to help get rid of the extraneous items your SG has probably accumulated.

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Those "extraneous items" are BACK UPS in case someone accidentally deletes a base item...

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This change will help smaller SGs build cooler stuff faster, as well as give large SGs a benefit for all their hard work so far.

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We've already shown that you've completely missed that mark. It will still take small SGs a long time to get up and running, and now one person will be getting shafted because the recipes REQUIRE invention salvage.

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Don’t worry, the storage containers in bases will now be able to hold a small amount of Invention Salvage as well now.

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You raised the base salvage from 999 to 2,500 because it was shown that the original base salvage racks stored LESS than a player could hold on a single character. Now you are telling us that we can only store 30 items in the rack? I know characters with more Halloween salvage on them than that.

To sum up the base changes in PVP terms:
EPIC PHAIL!

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Agreed, the new base system as well as the PvP system are totally borked! I am assuming they go hand and hand because of the Base raiding they have planned down the road. But the salvage bins now only holding 30 items as opposed to 999-2500 like they do on live make no sense. Needing Hami Goo to make telepads and other rare salvage to base build is also alarming.


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What? Hamidon Goo to build a friggin Telepad? Are they nuts? Do you realize what a Hamidon Goo can cost?

Oh yeah, it's going to cost less Prestige, but we're going to get you on that Influence/Infamy.

I'm glad I used up all my Base Salvage crafting all of my important items beforehand. This system sounds like I'd be ruined otherwise.

Say it ain't so, Posi?!

Edit: Please remember that not all of us are farmers with 200 billion Inf banked up.

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Say it ain't so, Posi?!

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It ain't so. Read the rest of the thread.

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Because if this stuff is now no longer tied to random drops, what is the market for?

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Getting the salvage. This may play havoc with the market, but as a player I love it. The number of merits it'll cost me to get the IOs I want will, in most cases, be cheaper than buying them with inf on the market currently. As a player, I couldn't care less if the market for Pool C and D IOs collapses and falls into the ocean - I have access to a much more reliable method of getting them now. I'll probably still use the market for salvage and for Pool A and B IOs (so as not to waste merits on things more easily available), but as a buyer not a seller - this looks like a good change for me.

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*howls in frustration*

ARGH! I HAVE LESS TIME THAN I THOUGHT!!!

*dashes out to start frantic work on the Issue 13 trailer*

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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I love your Videos.... I can't wait to see my Dom in it. Go Michelle GO

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Go, Michelle, go!!

I love your videos, and I'm sure this one will be awesome just like your others.

Fro~

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Hey, them's that want to help, look for @Samuraiko on the Test server - I tend to hang out in the Beta Testers channel, and barring me running specific missions to try and film them (or get dialogue), I'm always up for assistance. Especially when I have to film in the PvP zones.

REAL filming starts most likely this Saturday, and I live in AZ (which doesn't do the whole DST thing btw), so if you catch me on, great.

If I need help, I will probably shout it out in the Beta Testers channel, so please don't hit me with 800 /tells of "hey need hlp filmin?" coz that gets REALLY distracting.

And oh, yeah... devs... um... you're also welcome to give me a yell while I'm filming, especially if you want to make sure you appear in the video.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I never posted on the forums so forgive me for my lack of knowledge. Although I'm very pleased with the new patron and epic power pools, finally some balance. On the hand as far as the merit system goes this is a joke. On an overall basis the heros get a substantial amount of merits compare 2 the villians, so where is the balance in that. I guess the point was to make the villians happy in 1 aspect but to favor the heros in the merits since now there is a balance in patron and epics. Although this game was mostly design for heros to be victorious in which they always will be, but I feel if ur going to balance off 1 aspect of the game and hinder another then what do you accomplish in that. I apoligize if I sound rude, my intentions are just pointing out some facts.

I dont see any new Base items ?

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The telepad recipes are as follows:

Clockwork Winder, Temporal Sands, Simple Chemical, Psionic Manifestation

OR

Alchemical Silver, Symbol, Inert Gas, Black Blood of the Earth

OR

Ruby, Destiny, Silver, Hamidon Goo

There are three ways to build one. You only need Hamidon Goo if you're going for the third recipe.

Now, why on earth anyone would ever WANT to do that, I don't know, but there it is.

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Oh that's an easy one - if I'm out casually playing my 50 at their true level and I don't want to have a damn thing to do with Wentworths, Hamidon Goo drops for me from time to time, and none of the salvage for the first two recipes will.

Its obviously not the most cost effective method, but some people don't bring all their hopes and desires to the market .

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I never posted on the forums so forgive me for my lack of knowledge. Although I'm very pleased with the new patron and epic power pools, finally some balance. On the hand as far as the merit system goes this is a joke. On an overall basis the heros get a substantial amount of merits compare 2 the villians, so where is the balance in that. I guess the point was to make the villians happy in 1 aspect but to favor the heros in the merits since now there is a balance in patron and epics. Although this game was mostly design for heros to be victorious in which they always will be, but I feel if ur going to balance off 1 aspect of the game and hinder another then what do you accomplish in that. I apoligize if I sound rude, my intentions are just pointing out some facts.

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Villans have shorter faster arcs, but more of them.

Merits rewards are based on datamined completion times (1 merit = 5 mins)

Ergo villans have smaller but quicker to pick up rewards, but more of them.

It should be even on a time spent basis.

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The telepad recipes are as follows:

Clockwork Winder, Temporal Sands, Simple Chemical, Psionic Manifestation

OR

Alchemical Silver, Symbol, Inert Gas, Black Blood of the Earth

OR

Ruby, Destiny, Silver, Hamidon Goo

There are three ways to build one. You only need Hamidon Goo if you're going for the third recipe.

Now, why on earth anyone would ever WANT to do that, I don't know, but there it is.

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Oh that's an easy one - if I'm out casually playing my 50 at their true level and I don't want to have a damn thing to do with Wentworths, Hamidon Goo drops for me from time to time, and none of the salvage for the first two recipes will.

Its obviously not the most cost effective method, but some people don't bring all their hopes and desires to the market .

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Notice how all of those recipes require a piece of Rare salvage. I can see the market prices going up on all of those, including Hamidon Goo, as opposed to something that before you never had to buy anything for because there was more than just three recipes to build the necessary materials, none of which required anything Rare.

Edit: This still makes the market and the invention system much less optional than it was supposed to be.

first of all I clearly said as far as the new epic power pools i was pleased with that, so no need 2 comment on that issue. I totally disagree with you on the merits. The heros first of all have more TF's as oppose to villians and i'm sure the vet's can do the TF's in a shorter time span and the villians have long SF's. In any case the more the merry which equals more merits regardless of [u]DATATIME[u] . I'm well aware that the hero's have long TF's but either way if a hero tm does a tf in 1hr and a villian does sf in 1 hr the merits are not awarded the same.

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I never posted on the forums so forgive me for my lack of knowledge. Although I'm very pleased with the new patron and epic power pools, finally some balance. On the hand as far as the merit system goes this is a joke. On an overall basis the heros get a substantial amount of merits compare 2 the villians, so where is the balance in that. I guess the point was to make the villians happy in 1 aspect but to favor the heros in the merits since now there is a balance in patron and epics. Although this game was mostly design for heros to be victorious in which they always will be, but I feel if ur going to balance off 1 aspect of the game and hinder another then what do you accomplish in that. I apoligize if I sound rude, my intentions are just pointing out some facts.

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Villans have shorter faster arcs, but more of them.

Merits rewards are based on datamined completion times (1 merit = 5 mins)

Ergo villans have smaller but quicker to pick up rewards, but more of them.

It should be even on a time spent basis.

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I'm sorry, I don't understand this.

Villains do not have more Strike forces than Heroes do. We have less, even including Ouroburos and the Co-Ops.

I don't believe the Merit System has been FULLY explained. If I were to do the Sharkhead SF, would I get the 25 Merits? Regardless of the time I did it in? Or would I have to do it in.... carry the three, sqaure the 4..... 2 hours? To get the 25 merits? If I did it in 1 hour, do I only get 14 Merits?

And villains still do not have more Strike forces than Heroes. I don't understand why you said that. Heroes have twice as much as villains.

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I don't believe the Merit System has been FULLY explained. If I were to do the Sharkhead SF, would I get the 25 Merits? Regardless of the time I did it in? Or would I have to do it in.... carry the three, sqaure the 4..... 2 hours? To get the 25 merits? If I did it in 1 hour, do I only get 14 Merits?

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No, you get 25. It's a mis-read that several people have made. The number of merits are STATIC. How the devs decided how much each SF/arc is worth is based off the average completion time. That's where the time comes in. You get the same number of merits if you complete it in an hour, in two hours, in ten hours or in ten minutes. The whole x minutes = y merits thing only matters to people who like knowing the mechanics behind the scenes (and even then it's pretty vague).

*puts on SG Leader Hat*


What Snow_Globe said

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I never posted on the forums so forgive me for my lack of knowledge. Although I'm very pleased with the new patron and epic power pools, finally some balance. On the hand as far as the merit system goes this is a joke. On an overall basis the heros get a substantial amount of merits compare 2 the villians, so where is the balance in that. I guess the point was to make the villians happy in 1 aspect but to favor the heros in the merits since now there is a balance in patron and epics. Although this game was mostly design for heros to be victorious in which they always will be, but I feel if ur going to balance off 1 aspect of the game and hinder another then what do you accomplish in that. I apoligize if I sound rude, my intentions are just pointing out some facts.

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Villans have shorter faster arcs, but more of them.

Merits rewards are based on datamined completion times (1 merit = 5 mins)

Ergo villans have smaller but quicker to pick up rewards, but more of them.

It should be even on a time spent basis.

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I'm sorry, I don't understand this.

Villains do not have more Strike forces than Heroes do. We have less, even including Ouroburos and the Co-Ops.

I don't believe the Merit System has been FULLY explained. If I were to do the Sharkhead SF, would I get the 25 Merits? Regardless of the time I did it in? Or would I have to do it in.... carry the three, sqaure the 4..... 2 hours? To get the 25 merits? If I did it in 1 hour, do I only get 14 Merits?

And villains still do not have more Strike forces than Heroes. I don't understand why you said that. Heroes have twice as much as villains.

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I said ARCS and I mean ARCS.

as off I12
Blueside has 63 arcs and 17 badge missions (oroborous count from the Wiki INCLUDES Khedlian only arcs)
Redside has 106 arcs and 16 badges (EXCLUDING the VEAT arcs which Im not sure of their status)

Arcs give merits.

I13 is giving me the ability to get a Numina's for my main, the ability to save costumes for rerolls which I adore to the depths of my black obsessive-compulsive heart, QoL changes for Mastermind equipping and rested XP.

Everything else is just gravy. I'm looking forward to the release.

Patron and Epic Power Pools:
I'm very disapointed with the Electric Mastery change. Conserve power is hardly necessary at that level and does not fill any holes for blasters. Just because people aren't bright enough to realize how useful a ranged hold is for a blaster doesn't justify removal of a very useful tool.

I like the energy protection that the shield gives, but I can't think of a more useless power than conserve energy. What next FFS? Gonna give us all ET too? if I wanted Energy Manipulation, I'd have damn well chosen it. My BLASTER with no holds in her primary likes having a hold in a EPP that thematically jives with her powersets and concept.

Seriously, at what point do you start looking at why someone would choose an immob over a hold in a pool that protects against the most overused damage type, Energy.. Well golly gee, wonder of wonders, PvP. I'll betcha if you made holds as useful as an immob in PvP, the hold would be taken more often.. Thanks for removing the filler for a PvE hole for a PvP one. GG

I'm utterly utterly weary of PvP skewed datamining screwing with powers and powersets I like. I bought this game when it was released because it did not have PvP. It was a major selling point for me. This is just another reason for me to keep hating PvP due to its affecting every aspect of the game (not for the better) and making it less enjoyable in doing so.

Development via popularity contest is like a rudderless sailboat... Taken whichever way the wind blows.

Bases:
Was this another result of popularity polls? How on earth is this better for small SGs when rare invention salvage is needed for vital base services and storage for that salvage is at a premium?

If you want to revamp base construction, get rid of Prestige altogether and use Inf instead. Allow an SG to bank Inf and only allow it to be used for base construction. (Do not allow it to be withdrawn once it's in the SG's coffers, except to pay for base upgrades and rent.) Get rid of the need to craft items, instead unlock them via SG badges and simply allow them to be purchased. This would make it easier for small and beginning SG's to get a base up and running as Inf could be directly 'donated' to purchase needed or wanted base items.

Add SG badges (and unlock resulting base items) for completing things like story arcs, TF/SFs and defeating a number of mobs of each enemy group, as well as for gaining PvE and PvP personal badges like a Wentworth's 'market-watch' kiosk/Black Market 'hot-line' or vault reserve access. Y'know, goals that might just encourage group play within an SG.

Nothing proves the 'cobbled together' argument for PvP and bases than the use of a second 'currency' for base construction and completely ignoring the rest of the game.


As to the other features of this issue, I'd have rathered you had spent time on developing a mail system to send alts inf, recipes, salvage and enhancers. The game is no longer lootless, not having such a system was fine when it was lootless, now it's necessary to be on par with other loot games out there. Of the people I've had try the game, none of them stopped playing because PvP was imbalanced. All of them mentioned how lame (in various ways) it was that they couldn't easily send alts useful items.

I'm not terribly excited about the issue, and disappointed in many ways. At least it'll be easier for me to get the dayjobs completed.

[Edit: Having read that EPP's will instead have an added power choice and none removed is much more palatable and a better descision. However, my reasoning behind my complaint remains intact. To me, it feels that we're slowly being pidgeonholed into either farming or PvP as the be-all and end-all for endgame CoX.]

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I never posted on the forums so forgive me for my lack of knowledge. Although I'm very pleased with the new patron and epic power pools, finally some balance. On the hand as far as the merit system goes this is a joke. On an overall basis the heros get a substantial amount of merits compare 2 the villians, so where is the balance in that. I guess the point was to make the villians happy in 1 aspect but to favor the heros in the merits since now there is a balance in patron and epics. Although this game was mostly design for heros to be victorious in which they always will be, but I feel if ur going to balance off 1 aspect of the game and hinder another then what do you accomplish in that. I apoligize if I sound rude, my intentions are just pointing out some facts.

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Villans have shorter faster arcs, but more of them.

Merits rewards are based on datamined completion times (1 merit = 5 mins)

Ergo villans have smaller but quicker to pick up rewards, but more of them.

It should be even on a time spent basis.

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I'm sorry, I don't understand this.

Villains do not have more Strike forces than Heroes do. We have less, even including Ouroburos and the Co-Ops.

I don't believe the Merit System has been FULLY explained. If I were to do the Sharkhead SF, would I get the 25 Merits? Regardless of the time I did it in? Or would I have to do it in.... carry the three, sqaure the 4..... 2 hours? To get the 25 merits? If I did it in 1 hour, do I only get 14 Merits?

And villains still do not have more Strike forces than Heroes. I don't understand why you said that. Heroes have twice as much as villains.

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I said ARCS and I mean ARCS.

as off I12
Blueside has 63 arcs and 17 badge missions (oroborous count from the Wiki INCLUDES Khedlian only arcs)
Redside has 106 arcs and 16 badges (EXCLUDING the VEAT arcs which Im not sure of their status)

Arcs give merits.

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As per the current patch notes:
Flashback


Flashback story arcs will now correctly grant their end story arc rewards once every 30 minutes.

Ok,Cat..... throw that villians have MORE right out the door because even though villians may have MORE story archs many of them can be completed in much less than 30 minutes for 1(ONE) merit. Big deal. This basically means a redside player can complete an arch in 10 mins and get ONE merit then have to wait for the 30 minute timer to wear off before getting another reward.

In addition the sf and trial rewards are laughable compared to heroside. I said this all in beta and you stuck straight with your " story archs balance the 2 sides". I call cowmalarkey. Sorry. 464 merits for all hero sf's compared to 162 for all villian tf's is a load of crap.

With all of the changes in this issue I seriously dont understand why they just dont do away with redside alltogether. Do away with cross faction pvp altogether. Hell? Just get rid of pvp in the game alltogether too. Make it City of Hero's again, pretend there never was a game called Citty of Villian's and call it all good.

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In addition the sf and trial rewards are laughable compared to heroside. I said this all in beta and you stuck straight with your " story archs balance the 2 sides". I call cowmalarkey. Sorry. 464 merits for all hero sf's compared to 142 for all villian tf's is a load of crap.

With all of the changes in this issue I seriously dont understand why they just dont do away with redside alltogether. Do away with cross faction pvp altogether. Hell? Just get rid of pvp in the game alltogether too. Make it City of Hero's again, pretend there never was a game called Citty of Villian's and call it all good.

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This is the best idea, I've seen since the light bulb. Seriously, The could just make the Rouge Isles a place for the anti-hero. Then I'll never have to wait for villian content, since its never gonna show up anyway.

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Ok,Cat..... throw that villians have MORE right out the door because even though villians may have MORE story archs many of them can be completed in much less than 30 minutes for 1(ONE) merit. Big deal. This basically means a redside player can complete an arch in 10 mins and get ONE merit then have to wait for the 30 minute timer to wear off before getting another reward.


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Most badge missions offer 1 merit. The arcs offer more.

And the 30 min timer doesn't (or didn't it may have changed) apply to running an different arc.

Run a 15-20 min arc for 3 merits, then another 15-20 min for 3 merits

Or Blueside run a 30-35 min arc for 6 merits.



The redside doom on this is seriously misplaced, sorry. My Brute and Dom are loving the arc drops on test.

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Ok,Cat..... throw that villians have MORE right out the door because even though villians may have MORE story archs many of them can be completed in much less than 30 minutes for 1(ONE) merit. Big deal. This basically means a redside player can complete an arch in 10 mins and get ONE merit then have to wait for the 30 minute timer to wear off before getting another reward.


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Most badge missions offer 1 merit. The arcs offer more.

And the 30 min timer doesn't (or didn't it may have changed) apply to running an different arc.

Run a 15-20 min arc for 3 merits, then another 15-20 min for 3 merits

Or Blueside run a 30-35 min arc for 6 merits.



The redside doom on this is seriously misplaced, sorry. My Brute and Dom are loving the arc drops on test.

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No Sir//Madame. Go run through "Alone in the Darque" or "Vindication". Both lvl46-50 archs. See what you get and time vs. reward. When you finish come on back here and I'll throw a few more at you to test out time vs. reward. I already DID those and many more. I know exactly what results you will be forced to post. Ill say it again just so people see basic sf//tf disparity 464 merits vs. 162 merits villianside. Story archs in no way, shape or form balance merit earning "opportunities" between the factions.

If you have the data why not post it ? I won't doubt you.

Whats the TIME to run every hero TF to the Villan SFs?

There are more hero players , more hero pugs, more hero sf's and trials vs the villianside. The result is more datamining on the activities of much more diverse teams blueside and much more concise teams redside. It does not take a mathematician to see the disparity. The result is what we are now faced with. They need to do as I suggessted above and just get rid of COV or lower the cost of a random roll redside.At least until they are at a point in which they can provide more villian merit opportunity content.

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If you have the data why not post it ?

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Still waiting...

Until you give hard data on arc times and rewards there is nothing more to be said. If you have it post it, if you dont have it then run the arcs and build the data.

Thats exactly what Im doing right now (just finished Carpe Diem, a 3 mission arc which gives 1 merit. Dont have an exact time as I wasn't in flashback, and anyway I logged for the night last nigth part way through.
Im bugging that as an underawarding arc.


If you wont shrae the data, did you at least use /bug to provide feedback ?

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In addition the sf and trial rewards are laughable compared to heroside. I said this all in beta and you stuck straight with your " story archs balance the 2 sides". I call cowmalarkey. Sorry. 464 merits for all hero sf's compared to 142 for all villian tf's is a load of crap.

With all of the changes in this issue I seriously dont understand why they just dont do away with redside alltogether. Do away with cross faction pvp altogether. Hell? Just get rid of pvp in the game alltogether too. Make it City of Hero's again, pretend there never was a game called Citty of Villian's and call it all good.

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This is the best idea, I've seen since the light bulb. Seriously, The could just make the Rouge Isles a place for the anti-hero. Then I'll never have to wait for villian content, since its never gonna show up anyway.

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Drama.
I like my Villains. I'd rather play them over Heroes almost any day. That idea stinks under my nose and I would never support it. So !

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This is the best idea, I've seen since the light bulb. Seriously, The could just make the Rouge Isles a place for the anti-hero. Then I'll never have to wait for villian content, since its never gonna show up anyway.

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Drama.
I like my Villains. I'd rather play them over Heroes almost any day. That idea stinks under my nose and I would never support it. So !

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That comment was tongue in cheek. Villains need more content, and since they aren't getting it. The only way to get what you crave is to join them. But yeah, I'd rather be a villain as well.