Should art presented here be critiqued?
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2008-07-24 24:38 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
Well... i dont think critiques are so great (unless they ask for it).
You have to remember that a lot of people are very new to drawing (me!) ... they know they arent very good... they know what looks strange and what they need to get better at...
Encouragement does a lot to keep a person drawing and trying to get better!
Mew
If the artist is posting something, especially if its "I'm trying to learn how to do this better" then I'd say critiques are encouraged.
If it's a commissioned piece, not so much. The person making the commission may have asked for certain things that you would prefer to see done differently, OR the artwork would be posted by the client, not the artist. In either case, a critique would not be apropos.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
Whoa, I didn't mean to open a can of worms... my general opinion is, that I cannot stop the viewer from commenting how they feel... even if I wanted to, so it's not up to me to ask or not ask. I look at the unwanted responses as a measure of how I handle myself, and I look at the wanted responses, especially and preferably the client's as pretty much the only thing I am shooting for... if there is a parade of ooh and ahhs, who am I to say no to them? But in equal measure, what exactly does the negative viewer want me to do at the finished stage? Fix it? Do it again, draw it all over because they are so conveniently observant? My answer to that is, if the client is happy I'm happy, and while I'd love to fix all my mistakes, all I can really do with a queue over my head is take note of it, and move on to the next one...
There is no forum consensus, no rule saying you cannot comment how you wish. My comment in the other thread and on my latest DA piece was meant out of politeness and nothing more... as I would hope I am given the same courtesy.
In the past I have found it very annoying to be critiqued by the non-artistic, or the less than artistic, but as an SG mate has pointed out to me, those are all learning experiences for the artist. So now when it does happen, I try to keep my head, and find something polite to say.
In the end I can only speak for myself, and I am a compliment [censored]... in fact it's almost a sure fire way of getting free art from me, that is unless you hate my stuff, then well don't go out of your way. 
LJ
My rule is that if you want to praise me, do so. If you're going to complain you can [censored] off or pay me to listen.
That's how I roll, playa.
Well I did a google search on How to Critque Art, and it occurs to me, that an artist can spend several days working on a piece, and what there work is summed up to is a 3 or 4 line paragraph, sometimes favorable, sometimes not. Is that fair? Probably not, is it fair to ask people to comment in length, or not to comment, probably not...
I don't agree with your statement that art posted requires a response, it would be nice to get one definitely, and perhaps even negative ones with good intention have merit... but I think most artists will continue to work regardless. Like I said earliar, the client's response is the most important to me... everything else is gravy and or coleslaw which I don't care for...
Edit: what Foo said! lololol you kill me man...
Frankly I find SlickRiptide's posts in the art forum either offensive or an utter bore to read. I tend to just naturally skip over them like how I didn't really even read his opening post here.
I don't think art should be critiqued unless the artist asks for it. I particularly find it distasteful when someone becomes overly critical over something a collector/artist might be showing off.
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Art is, IMO, created to be critiqued...
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I disagree with your assertion that art is created to be critiqued. Otherwise, without critique, there would be no purpose to art?
I create art to give form to the images I see in my head. I see worlds and characters in a ghostly, dreamy way, and I have the ability to give those characters form. That's all. If people choose to enjoy or not enjoy my work, that's up to them.
If someone chooses to critique my work, that's there perogative. And it's mine to choose to take the critique into advisement or not. Some critiques I'll listen to and consider, while others I ignore completely.
One rules stands true; I won't change a piece once I consider it done, and once a customer has signed off on it. Once it's done, critiques are mostly meaningless unless the 'lesson learned' can be applied to the next piece. Other than that, they're just academic.
Well actually the offending, (while unintentional) response came from Lousey Day over a wip that Gil Bates had posted, I'm sure just to update his site's progress. I don't think he was looking for 11th hour critiques, even if Lousey's was helpful or interesting, which I thought it was... but at the same time could have been taken in the wrong way, or been slight off putting... this is all speculation, or gut reactions, much like my comment after Sayterra's where what set me off, was not even the topic, but that I recieved a comment from someone else, who hadn't said anything about my work in 5 months (okay I was off for 2 and a half of those months), but it's kind of perplexing. One second you think you know someone, and the next, the only thing they have to say is, well I noticed...
It's all subjective, perhaps if we were both having better days, nothing would have been said on either side.
EDIT: Dark Jedi/Doug Shuler can't critique me any time, and I would listen out of my deep respect and admiration for his insight, well meaning and skill as an artist. In other words, I wouldn't tell Da Vinci to piss off...
Foo made me LOL also, so take that as you will. *heh*
My main concern in starting this thread is preventing some sort of "chilling effect" on the community. If there's a general feeling that's what's happening, then I can live with keeping my opinions to myself. 
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I don't agree with your statement that art posted requires a response
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I didn't mean it quite like that - more that art has a tendency to evoke a response and that a strong response calls for some consideration of WHY it's a strong response.
It's primarily a question of venue, I think. Do people think of this as the "living room" venue where they show off their art to their friends and expect an appropriate response or do they think of it more as a "gallery" where a more critical response is to be expected, regardless of whether it's desired?
Both, personally I would like nice comments from my friends, respectful comments from strangers, fawning comments from anyone under 14, and insightful criticism from fellow artists who's own work I deem to be without flaw (you know who you are)... and of course, the client is to a tolerant degree open to comment as they feel, and I try to accommodate them. You definitely do not want a client that can't make up their mind except to say, they know what they want, and your work is not it...
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One rules stands true; I won't change a piece once I consider it done, and once a customer has signed off on it. Once it's done, critiques are mostly meaningless unless the 'lesson learned' can be applied to the next piece. Other than that, they're just academic.
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Hmmm... That's an interesting response. I'd see critique of any sort from "That's nice" to "The usage of color in this fashion made me think of thus and such" to be about exploring the experience of the art, not of controlling the artist.
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Frankly I find SlickRiptide's posts in the art forum either offensive or an utter bore to read. I tend to just naturally skip over them like how I didn't really even read his opening post here.
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Which is why they invented the phrase "Your mileage may vary". Also the ignore button. Feel free to use it. I won't mind.
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I don't think art should be critiqued unless the artist asks for it. I particularly find it distasteful when someone becomes overly critical over something a collector/artist might be showing off.
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Is detailed positive feedback better or worse than "Nice job!"?
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Personally, as someone with no capacity to create art (and thus am left with mostly critique when surfing through this particular board. HAHAhaaa. Surfboard), I try to gauge things specifically on whether or not the artist is even asking for critique.
If they're not specifically asking what I see wrong with a piece (in one way or another), I don't really see where I have any right or obligation to tell them where they go wrong. I'm a hypercritical perfectionist; If asked to point out each and every flaw I see in a piece, I could likely come off as a complete and utter jerk. Provided I could even figure out how to word things to relate, in specific, what exactly is 'off'.
However, just because I notice these things, doesn't mean I should necessarily state it. I limit myself to the stuff I notice in the first 30 seconds of review of a piece (or more, depending on size and composition), because frankly that's the kind of thing that the average person is going to notice. I'm not average in my attention to detail, and I'm aware of it (I spend so long fussing over details I'm not even going to pretend I'm normal).
That said, because I focus so much on the details of this, that, or the other thing, I can usually find something redeeming in just about every work done by the majority of the average member of the art community as a whole, even if I don't like their style or that piece in particular. And if I see something that particularly stands out on a finished piece, or a WIP that someone's showing off (or asking for help on their stuff), I'll point it out. Mostly, because I feel positive reinforcement helps just as much as negative reinforcement does insofar as artistic growth, and not every critique needs to be scathing, wordy, and/or an in-depth analysis. >.>
...But I'm going way off on a tangent and just rambling now so I'm going back to my basket to chill out and munch Fritos. :3
Personally I favour critiques, especially well structured ones. Depending on the situation, I may make adjustments to that piece or I may not. Usually I think of critiques as 'advice or thoughts for the future.' (Remember that critiques can point out the positive and negative, as well as offer a different view point.)
Because while hearing only the positives, the one-liners, the good-job's is quite wonderful, it can get boring. And doesn't help the progression of the artist.
That said, I would respect the wish of any who posted 'no critique's please.'
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I wouldn't critique something that someone had commissioned and is considered 'done'. Because it's generally not the artist posting it, and the commissioner has signed off on it already so there won't be any changes done anyway and if you critique it it makes you sound like a starstarstarstar.
However if someone posts a WIP maybe they are looking for some critiques... so then i guess it's okay to post a critique. I dunno. Yes I agree there is a lot of 'omg that's awesome' even when it might not be. But follow your mother's advice if you don't have something nice to say say nothing at all
But. yeah. it's touchy issue for sure!
Yeah see Liz is waaay too level headed to be an artist... my exact theory on this matter is that she was abducted by aliens, taught to draw on their level, and she is just passing her time away waiting for the mothership to return while she redeems us all with her personage! Look into the light Liz! Look into the light...
I'm a big fan of "private critiques, public adulation", myself...
of course, when I post works of my own on DA, I welcome critiques, even the snarky ones. Anything to add to my skillset... even if it's ignoring snarky critiques!
Now, when it comes to works-in-progress or even completed "I was trying for X here" type stuff... I'll let the artist know if they accomplished what they wanted. if proportions/perspective are off, or if figures look unnaturally bent... yes, I'll speak up. If the artist has said "no critiques desired" then if I find something REALLY broken about the piece, I'll point it out privately.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
I find the undercurrent of "critique is about changing the piece and it ain't going to be changed" rather interesting. Not at all what I expected.
On a side note, in the interest of "fair's fair", I've altered my .sig to point to a few fan fics I've posted in the Roleplaying section. If I've criticised your work or your commission and it affected you negatively, then I offer you the opportunity to return the favor. If you feel so inclined, I only request that your criticisms be honest ones.
I think a good rule of thumb is how it tends to work at DA.... if it says "Comments AND critiques welcome..." in the description, of course give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. There are a couple people I watch at DA who always encourage critiquing and I put effort into give meaningful praise and critique.
I agree that its a little weird critiquing commissions because the artist is out to please the commissioner, not everyone else. But I think that no matter what is posted, thoughtful praise is always better than a quick "Nice job!" (satisfying as that may be). I try to say specific things about pieces that I like when I'm moved to comment on them.
As far as who it comes from, even non-artistic people know what they like and don't like. If I want some critiquing, I would in no way shun it from someone who doesn't know thing 1 about art. Almost anyone can point out glaring flaws in perspective or something, or just know when something is off. I don't know EVERYTHING about every style of art or piece ever created, but I don't think that makes my opinions completely invalid if given in a thoughtful manner.
I would just stick with not critiquing unless asked. No harm, no foul that way ^.^
if you're going to critique, always say "Nice (excellent, Good, Etc.) piece. I'd work on." in front of it
they may know you're lying, but it'll make you seem less of a jerk
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Frankly I find SlickRiptide's posts in the art forum either offensive or an utter bore to read. I tend to just naturally skip over them like how I didn't really even read his opening post here.
I don't think art should be critiqued unless the artist asks for it. I particularly find it distasteful when someone becomes overly critical over something a collector/artist might be showing off.
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I feel much the same way .
If I want critiques I ask for them or i'll go to <gasp> a set of forums designed specificly to get feedback from other artists .
This is mostly a place for folks to show off things weather they drew it or comissioned someone else to draw it .
I have posted things specificly to give folks a chance at playing at critiqueing and found it did help shape the piece nicely but the majority of the time im just doing my own thing and really don't care if this or that don't meet others exacting standards .
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Art is, IMO, created to be critiqued.
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I have to disagree with this. Art is created first, and foremost, to be enjoyed and admired by the viewer. If you don't like the piece then move on. Critiques are usually volunteered by people that has less understanding that the artists and, more often than not, a chip on their shoulder just waiting to lash out at something. And to top if off, most end up not even being useful.
I think the main purpose of this forum is not to search out critiques, or to search out pieces to critique, but rather a place to come and share your talents with others. And then offer a critique only if, and ONLY IF, the person posting has asked for one.
If you want to critique pieces then there are lots of other sites that cater to just this mindset, but I don't think that this is the place for it unless specifically asked for. And so on that note, if you really need to offer a critique and the artist has not asked for it, then do it in a Private Message.
Anyway, just my two cents worth.
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Great thread. I'm on my way out to dinner. I'll have to respond in detail when I get back. For now, I would say the Prof is on the right track. If someone is asking fine. If someone is posting their commission they are happy with. Why be a ******? If you have a burning issue with something, a gentile critique would probably be okay but I see no reason delve into serious critquing when no one is asking you.
I'm no artist, so I would not presume to offer any in-depth critique of anyone's art anywhere. I'm simply not qualified to give that. I *do* always at least try to offer some small observation when I comment and praise pieces here and at DA. If I am moved to comment, something has prompted me to do so, so it would be lax of me not to mention it. Nothing insightful, just whatever I feel, like "I love the sense of movement" or "What great expression!" Whatever it is that pushed me to start typing in the first place. Not sharing that thought would make me feel I'm not being respectful to the art, the artist, and/or the commissioner.
I have posted a couple of bits or writing, and even some drawings, at DA. In that sort of forum I would expect critiques. Here I'm not so sure. It's a different sort of feel, a community of enthusiasts and appreciators as well as creators. So I just don't know. I do know I will try to be more thoughtful about the issue.
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I wanted to address something that LadyJudgement said over in the MMO Art thread, so I've started a new thread here in order to avoid a threadjack over there. This should in no way be construed as an attack on LadyJudgement.
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Evidently everything is open to critique, not only works in progress, but works that are finished. There's a tendency for the artist to get defensive with their vision, OR to thank the third party for their observation and move on to the next one...
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I'm feeling an implication here of a feeling that critique is a bad or harmful thing unless it's done in the context of someone asking for help with a work in progress.
Is that the general feeling of the forum regulars? When someone posts the art they've created or commissioned, do most such people expect or desire to receive a chorus of "Nice!", "Good job!", "Smexy!" or "Congrats!" and nothing more?
I'm not passing judgement (not intentionally). I'm looking to understand the impression I get from LadyJudgement that s/he feels the forum is, ah, "less neighborly" nowadays and whether that feeling is a widespread one amongst the regular readers here.
I'm one of those that falls into the category of "likely to critique a finished piece". Critiquing a WIP is mostly a pointless exercise for me; it'd be like posting a destination sales tax routine here and asking whether I ought to use XML or a plain-text scanner to process the data. Most of you wouldn't know or care about the difference or about the project. When it was done, though, you'd probably have an opinion about how much tax you were being charged. *heh*
Anyway, I personally feel like I should usually say something useful about the piece. Even if I loved it, it helps the artist if she knows what it was that I loved. If I disliked something, then it may or may not profit her to understand that feeling, but at least I'm not dismissing it as unworthy of any kind of intelligent consideration.
Art is, IMO, created to be critiqued. The moreso if it evokes a reaction from the viewer; I'd imagine that the worst scenario for an artist is that you create art and nobody cares.
The flip side, of course, especially with commissioned art, is "this art is for fun, it's not meant to be taken seriously". There's some truth in that view, from the point of view of the commissioner. From the artist's point of view, I'd imagine that even the fluffiest piece of art still involves a certain amount of pride of craftsmanship as well as some small artistic vision. Given that, it seems to me that qualifies it for some kind of examination of WHY it evokes a response if it does, in fact, evoke one.
A negative response is still a response.
In any case, I'm willing to live by the "house rules" and just say nothing at all, if everyone agress that the "house rules" are "either give positive feedback or don't give any feedback" or "don't critique commissioned art that the poster is showing off". I'd just like to know if there's some agreement on what the "house rules" are.