City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Should art presented here be critiqued?

Bill Z Bubba

By Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2008-07-24 24:38 in Multi-Media Fan Creations

 

Posted

I don't see them rushing to your defense either , sport .

 

Posted

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Art is, IMO, created to be critiqued.

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I have to disagree with this. Art is created first, and foremost, to be enjoyed and admired by the viewer. If you don't like the piece then move on. Critiques are usually volunteered by people that has less understanding that the artists and, more often than not, a chip on their shoulder just waiting to lash out at something. And to top if off, most end up not even being useful.

I think the main purpose of this forum is not to search out critiques, or to search out pieces to critique, but rather a place to come and share your talents with others. And then offer a critique only if, and ONLY IF, the person posting has asked for one.

If you want to critique pieces then there are lots of other sites that cater to just this mindset, but I don't think that this is the place for it unless specifically asked for. And so on that note, if you really need to offer a critique and the artist has not asked for it, then do it in a Private Message.

Anyway, just my two cents worth.

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nicely worded would subscribe to your newsletter

 

Posted

I suppose your right , but <glares back at thread > grrr grrr

Still it seems rather a simple thing to ask someone before vomiting fourth with your expert oponion .

ah well , wandering off now does mean i'll have something amusing to read in the morning

 

Posted

QR

I don't think any offense at all was meant by Slick when he offered his critique. I also do not believe he meant to do any sort of trolling. As he said I see this as merely opening the lines of communication so there is a place where we can all understand what is expected, or not, from these forums. I would also like to point out that since the means of communication here is strictly by the written word, vocal infliction can often be misconstrued.

I've been on these forums a while and have never read anything about critiques being encouraged or not. This may have occurred before my time. You cannot completely blame Slick for not seeing that. It is correct that this is a forum for an MMO, and the title is Screenshots and Fan Art. As such it probably is true that, as it is not an "artists" forum (and to this I would beg to differ as we do have many very good artists on here) but merely a sub-forum for an MMO, that critiques are a discouraged thing, yet I have seem them in the past. Jumping on someone relatively new to the area is merely a means to run them off and to discourage others who might consider posting some of their work.

Basically the long and short of it appears to be that some people appreciate and encourage critiques, others want nothing to do with them, and a few who are reading this but not responding could not care less either way. That's fine. There should be no need for name calling in the process of this discussion.

With that said, for those who do wish to have their work critiqued, deviantART's submissions allow you to choose what kind of comments you wish to encourage. Just select the proper checkbox. Also, as has been mentioned, you can PM the artist in question just to be on the safe side. I've done this in the past.

I mean no offense by this post at all; I'm just commenting on my own observations. For me this thread has been most helpful as now I know what I can expect from this forum without walking on eggshells.

"If I fail, they write me off as another statistic. If I succeed, they pay me a million bucks to fly out to Hollywood and fart." --- George A. Romero
"If I had any dignity, that would have been humiliating" --- Adam Savage
Virtue Server: Kheprera, Malefic Elf, Lady Omen, Night Rune, La Muerte Roja, Scarab Lafayette, Serena Ravensong, Kyrse, and Arachnavoodoo among others.

 

Posted

There are no lines of communication here , it is unlikely the forum will acheive harmony and zen and everyone will choose one way or another .

lets give an example without pointing a finger at anyone

This is what im seeing

I see someone visiting the forums and doling out unsolicted advice and suggestions without even bothering to ask people if they want it .

Talking about the community and wanting to see it flourish but not bothering to take the 30 seconds to send a pm or even just ask in a thread if someone wants a critique or advice before disgorging one fourth like a plauge of frogs upon the egyptians .

that is the imaginary sceneario im seeing in my mind

the sceneario id like to see would be one were someone would ask before im forced to listen to their windbaggery as honestly id be more inclined to listen to the oponions of people who actually draw as oppossed to joe forumite that belives because he has a epic mount in WoW I should heed his oponions on how elves should look .


TL DR verion

If a poster can't be bothered to even engage in that least bit of effort that asking would require then they really shouldn't be surprised when folks get annoyed .

 

Posted

*shrug*

I think you're reading too much into it and expecting too much from people on an internet forum.

"If I fail, they write me off as another statistic. If I succeed, they pay me a million bucks to fly out to Hollywood and fart." --- George A. Romero
"If I had any dignity, that would have been humiliating" --- Adam Savage
Virtue Server: Kheprera, Malefic Elf, Lady Omen, Night Rune, La Muerte Roja, Scarab Lafayette, Serena Ravensong, Kyrse, and Arachnavoodoo among others.

 

Posted

*Shrugs*

I think your making excuses for someone else whoms unsolicted critiques often border on trolling

 

Posted

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My rule is that if you want to praise me, do so. If you're going to complain you can [censored] off or pay me to listen.

That's how I roll, playa.

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You owe me a coffee, several paper towels and a couple toots of windex.
Plus the 50 dollah labor charge to clean off my monitor.

Pure.
Lulz.

As for the subject: I this is really the perfect place to be asking a question like this.

I have a lotta different feelings about this issue.
I guess it really all boils down to the spirit of the critique.
For instance, I got recently critiqued here on my latest work.
The spirit of it ( at least to me) was someone trying to be helpful and sharing thier (obviously abundant) knowledge of schooled art technique; which is something I know little about since im not formally trained and got kicked out of high-school.
While I didnt share his views the spirit is what mattered.

I personally welcome critiques; its the only way your going to get better.
But critiques; like art - are of varying quality and tone.

Take anatomy for example.
There isnt one human body that is like another one.
Some people have distributions of weight in certain areas and bone structures that vary wildly from what would be considered a baseline. Theres a big difference between fudging anatomy and exaggerating it. So when someone says "That guys forearm is too big" and the guy isnt even human and has another forearm that matches it - you might want to question the quality of such a criticism.

Some people criticize out of jealousy or conversely out of cruelty when they are of obviously higher skill level and feel like hurting someone.
Ive seen and been the target of both, and it really feels rotten.
You learn to tell the difference after a while.
Ive found that if you are gracious and thank each and every one in all circumstances you learn something everytime.
You really cant lose if you kill em with kindness.

The jealous and malicious people dont get satisfaction, the kind and helpful people get to feel like theyre good intentions were received.

What can be frustrating is when someone has good intentions and you simply dont agree with them, for valid reasons; and they think you cant take criticism..THAT is frustrating.

I welcome it.
There was a time when I thought I welcomed it, but really couldnt take the criticisms. I was used to being surrounded by friends who pretty much loved everything I did.
Around this time I submitted my pencil stuff to RPG companies in the 90's and I got my buns handed to me, and it hurt my pride really bad. When I got over it and reflected on what they said and the spirit of how they were saying it, it ended up being a massive turning point and critical juncture in my growth.

Ill shut up now but basically: Dont react to the critique but think about it and honestly ask yourself if they are right - then thank em and move on.

It works for me and after all its a free country, people have died for us to have the priviledge of speaking freely - even if the speaker sucks.

 

Posted

Actually the forums are not a free country and we can't really say anything we want or post anything we want and the rules on the forum are not nesacarrily the rules for our country of origin , other then that nice post

 

Posted

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Actually the forums are not a free country and we can't really say anything we want or post anything we want and the rules on the forum are not nesacarrily the rules for our country of origin , other then that nice post

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Thanks for your critique, it was very helpful.

 

Posted

more a statement really but I can see how your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe might confuse you

:P

 

Posted

and your art is posted where ?

 

Posted

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more a statement really but I can see how your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe might confuse you

:P

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If you say so.

Of course appreciating and being thankful for my rights as an american citizen automatically translate into blind patriotism and global narccicism.

Good point.

 

Posted

Generally they do if you end your post with "It works for me and after all its a free country, people have died for us to have the priviledge of speaking freely - even if the speaker sucks. "

and it was just a shot in the dark , honestly you could have been from sweden .

But saying its a free country on a forum populated by people from any number of coutries is a bit goofy and as pointed out wrong .

 

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I think we should all just have some left over cake and ice cream, and move along...

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I still think this...

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I vote for cake and ice cream too.

Or even ice cream cake if that's available.

 

Posted

Remind me never to get on Scarf's bad side...

 

Posted

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Generally they do if you end your post with "It works for me and after all its a free country, people have died for us to have the priviledge of speaking freely - even if the speaker sucks. "

and it was just a shot in the dark , honestly you could have been from sweden .

But saying its a free country on a forum populated by people from any number of coutries is a bit goofy and as pointed out wrong .

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Oops!
I didnt realize you were the arbiter of the internet.

Help me out here.
Its goofy to be thankful of my rights as an american citizen on the internet while being in america, but not goofy to tell people what is or isnt acceptable on the internet depending on thier country of origin?

Youll be alright, one day.

Heres a suggestion - you might want to quit while your ahead because if *I* can own you with your own logic then the other people around here - who are 100X's smarter than me - are going to eat you alive.

 

Posted

oh gees, Scarf! Put the gun down... step away from the ammo case...

 

Posted

riiight , nice try .

I guess you are likely trying too hard now and it looks like since you are lashing out i've hit home .

I guess your not as good as taking criticism as you posted you where which can only lead me to belive the rest of your post is likely fabrications .

good point

ps

you really used own in that manner , very nice .

 

Posted

well i had something constructive to say but at this point i think it'd be fairly useless soooooo.....i'm just gonna say that like it or not we're all part of the community lets all try to get along and here's hoping this thread gets locekd before it gets any worse

 

Posted

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riiight , nice try .

I guess you are likely trying too hard now and it looks like since you are lashing out i've hit home .

I guess your not as good as taking criticism as you posted you where which can only lead me to belive the rest of your post is likely fabrications .

good point

ps

you really used own in that manner , very nice .

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Actually the forums are not a free country and we can't really say anything we want or post anything we want and the rules on the forum are not nesacarrily the rules for our country of origin , other then that nice post

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Thanks for your critique, it was very helpful.


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more a statement really but I can see how your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe might confuse you

:P

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Wait, your critiquing me now?
Oooohh I get it - losing the arguement so change the arguement.
I didnt realize I was lashing out, I thought I was sitting here on my dinner break eating some pizza.
Sooo...whats next?
Im a racist..mentally unstable?

This is fun, by all means...continue.

 

Posted

Well it STARTED civil enough.... *shrugs*


"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."