Discussion: 51 Month and 54 Month Veteran Rewards
By
7thCynic,
Posted on: 2008-07-08 17:54 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im sorry to say this but I would rather not get another power that misses 75% of the time 
just give me better accuracy on the ones I already have. I love the powers but the miss so bloody often you cant rely on them.
[/ QUOTE ]
They only miss 25% of the time against even-cons, and, as covered earlier in this thread, there are various ways to boost the accuracy of Vet attacks. And in the levels where Vet attacks are most useful, the i12 "Beginner's Luck" accuracy boost makes them quite accurate for a good while.
[/ QUOTE ]
Normally I am not a naysayer but where as I truly love the temp powers I must have some really awful luck because the last couple weeks I have been paying closer attention to some of my powers and the temp powers hit 1 out of every 5 attacks. Thats just an average mind. On my main who is fully outfitted with bonus sets that is not 25%. I am in no way saying you are wrong but this is what I have come up with over the last few weeks. I totally agree with the fact that they are a life saver in the beginning levels though. I cant imagine starting a new character without them now.
[/ QUOTE ]
So this is after running Herostats (or manually logging every hit roll from your combat tab)? Or is this just a "feeling?" Running Herostats during even a single long play session (which isn't a very big sample size, but should be sufficient) should get you enough data to prove or disprove your "feeling." I guarantee you if you do that, the number will be much closer to 75% than it is to 25% (and that's assuming you don't have any tohit buffs going on helping the Vet attacks, in which case the number would be higher).
[/ QUOTE ]
The numbers I came up with were my own so I took your advice and tried hero stats I ran all day with my WS who is 37 and not decked out like my main. I was on heroic solo and teamed and the numbers are Nem staff 45.80. For what ever reason Sands didn't register so I have no idea what they were. This was about a 8 hour session and yes I know I need a life 
Anyway there it is. I never realize hero stats did that I never paid it much attention cept for badges so thanks
@Sorak
[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, really not liking the 54 month vet rewards. Expecially since we cannot re pick a power we picked earlier. So, basicly the 54 month reward is the power we didnt want at 12 months or 33 months....
[/ QUOTE ]
That's as Concise way of putting it as I've seen. 
[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, really not liking the 54 month vet rewards. Expecially since we cannot re pick a power we picked earlier. So, basicly the 54 month reward is the power we didnt want at 12 months or 33 months....
[/ QUOTE ]
Well gee since you put it that way... Oh wait there is no real other way to look at it :P
I got my 51 month Vet Reward today (no clue why it moved up 15 days, but it did). I can personally confirm that you also get a free costume token with it.
Also, the reward is slightly bugged. Unlike other Vet Reward costume pieces, these do not unlock at character creation.
Edit: And there are actually 5 helms, not 4: Wolf Spider, Wolf Spider Red, Mystic Helm, Crab Spider, and Fortunata (which only females can wear).
Got a question bout the Axe though...since it works against undead does that mean it works against the ghost of scrapyard? It should since he is a ghost.
[ QUOTE ]
I got my 51 month Vet Reward today (no clue why it moved up 15 days, but it did). I can personally confirm that you also get a free costume token with it.
Also, the reward is slightly bugged. Unlike other Vet Reward costume pieces, these do not unlock at character creation.
Edit: And there are actually 5 helms, not 4: Wolf Spider, Wolf Spider Red, Mystic Helm, Crab Spider, and Fortunata (which only females can wear).
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for that, that answers one of my questions 
CoH:
PSI-on: DM/PB Defender (Triumph)
Disco Lord: MA/SR Scrapper (Triumph)
CoV:
Spec-tor: MC/PA Dominator (Triumph)
The Regional Manager: Merc/FF MM (Triumph)
[ QUOTE ]
Got a question bout the Axe though...since it works against undead does that mean it works against the ghost of scrapyard? It should since he is a ghost.
[/ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard, he is considered True Undead.
CoH:
PSI-on: DM/PB Defender (Triumph)
Disco Lord: MA/SR Scrapper (Triumph)
CoV:
Spec-tor: MC/PA Dominator (Triumph)
The Regional Manager: Merc/FF MM (Triumph)
[ QUOTE ]
I suggested long ago a plan that had near universal player approval (just try and do that!) wherein you can choose which of the Vet Reward costume pieces to unlock for your character each time you had a costume reward. This way, if you're here only a year and want to make a boxer, then you chose the boxer reward at three months instead of wings. None of this waiting three years or more for the costume piece you want. Long time vets get more costumes, so, they have their prestigious honor while newer players don't have to wait five years for a particular costume piece.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never liked the way the Veteran's Reward System was handled, so I'll continue to push for Zombie Man's suggestion (and Arcanville's too). The longer the system goes on, the harder it is to balance the need for new, cool toys with the fact that those toys won't be readily available to everyone. Why not solve that problem once and for all before someone gets hurt?
At any rate, I'm giving the 51 and 54 month rewards a thumbs down. Getting the CoV pre-order helmets is great, but why on earth are they given out over three years after that CoH pre-orders? That seems very arbitrary, especially with the new VEATs. Arachnos ATs might be expected to use those helmets in their 'civilian' garbs, yet it is very possible to earn access to a VEAT in well under 51 months time.
As for the 54 month power, it seems to get the worst of two different worlds. On the one hand, I don't like giving even more temp powers to such long time vets: the difference between a starting up a true newbie character and a veteran's alt just got even bigger. I'm not a big fan of that. Yet on the other hand, these new temp powers are about as boring as you can get: we already chose not to get them once, after all. With a completely new set of powers to choose from, there's at least a chance of finding something that might help a character concept, provide an interesting bit of synergy, or even just look really cool. So from my view, this seems like we get some of the downsides of new powers without most of the upsides. Not a lot to get excited about here, I'm afraid.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
tl;dr but 2 things:
(1) Yay for vet rewards done in advance rather than as an afterthought. You love us, you really really love us.
(2) The screenshot for the blackwand is wrong. The new one is considerably cooler looking.
Nice to see you got yours 15 days early. Mine is currently 4 days LATE?
Not that I am in a hurry for the helmets but the badge is the prize. Even checked account information and funny it jumps from 48 to 54? 51 month is MISSING.
Try out these AE arcs: 58376, 121698 & 143827
Badges? Did someone say badges? Sign me up!
The funny thing that people forget is, when did you have to pay for an expansion on this game and no I don't mean your monthly fees, I mean having to buy another game? Heroes and Villains were standalone. WOW can't say that.
That's what I thought.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whta I've suggested in the past is that the devs make a "veteran melee power pool" and a "veteran ranged power pool" and add powers to each as necessary. Make the veteran rewards grant one choice from the appropriate pool. So if they decide to add some new snazzy veteran attack, newer players will still have a shot at them before they grow old and die. The advantage older players will have is that they will have more *selections* but not necessarily a better set of selections which means there is less of a problem adding overly interesting veteran attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
/signed
Defintely a better system than we have now IMO
[/ QUOTE ]
As has been posted in rebuttal many, many times, such a "pick your vet reward from a pool" system is not a good idea. Just to recap a few objections:
1) This front-loads the best vet rewards, making the rest of the rewards less anticipated over time, effectively providing a declining incentive to stick around.
2) Balance concerns: Should everyone get the nemesis staff at only three months? There's probably a solid game balance reason behind why some vet rewards take a long time to get.
3) Vet rewards are a visual indicator of vet status. Boxing costume? That player must have been around at least 39 months. A self-buff pet? They've been around at least 48 months. A pick-your-own system removes all status from the visual cue, since any reward can be picked up as early as 3 months.
4) Newer vet rewards would be decreased in effectiveness, not made better, under such a system, since the devs would not want really good vet rewards flooding the game environment as early as 3 months after the new really good vet power is introduced.
Let's pretend as an example that the devs might decide to give out a jetpack "temp" power at 57 months, and aren't worried that it will affect the game too much since few would have it.
But under a "pick your own" system the devs would just give out some junk power like a snowball instead, and a jetpack power would NEVER be added as a vet reward because then everyone would have the option of skipping travel powers entirely after playing the game for only 3 months.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whta I've suggested in the past is that the devs make a "veteran melee power pool" and a "veteran ranged power pool" and add powers to each as necessary. Make the veteran rewards grant one choice from the appropriate pool. So if they decide to add some new snazzy veteran attack, newer players will still have a shot at them before they grow old and die. The advantage older players will have is that they will have more *selections* but not necessarily a better set of selections which means there is less of a problem adding overly interesting veteran attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
/signed
Defintely a better system than we have now IMO
[/ QUOTE ]
As has been posted in rebuttal many, many times, such a "pick your vet reward from a pool" system is not a good idea. Just to recap a few objections:
1) This front-loads the best vet rewards, making the rest of the rewards less anticipated over time, effectively providing a declining incentive to stick around.
2) Balance concerns: Should everyone get the nemesis staff at only three months? There's probably a solid game balance reason behind why some vet rewards take a long time to get.
3) Vet rewards are a visual indicator of vet status. Boxing costume? That player must have been around at least 39 months. A self-buff pet? They've been around at least 48 months. A pick-your-own system removes all status from the visual cue, since any reward can be picked up as early as 3 months.
4) Newer vet rewards would be decreased in effectiveness, not made better, under such a system, since the devs would not want really good vet rewards flooding the game environment as early as 3 months after the new really good vet power is introduced.
Let's pretend as an example that the devs might decide to give out a jetpack "temp" power at 57 months, and aren't worried that it will affect the game too much since few would have it.
But under a "pick your own" system the devs would just give out some junk power like a snowball instead, and a jetpack power would NEVER be added as a vet reward because then everyone would have the option of skipping travel powers entirely after playing the game for only 3 months.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I understand the logic and sentiment behind your arguement, not all of it really works in practice. The main request that I've seen is for a "melee pool" and a "ranged pool".
The first opportunity to pick from the melee choices wouldn't occur until 12 months, thus preserving a sense of something for which to strive. Nobody would be grabbing an extra atack at only the 3 month mark.
In a similar fashion, the first choice of ranged items would not happen until 33 months.
Costume parts and a hypothetical jetpack are neither melee or ranged attacks. They ought to remain on the existing schedule (along with TP powers and all the other neat stuff), which would keep the sense of status you mentioned intact.
New reward powers don't necessarily have to be "really good", they just have to be "equally good" to what has already been provided. In fact, I'd pick stuff that might be "less good" than what I have already, as long as the power fit the concept of my character.
I'm actually less impressed by the fact that my forthcoming option will be to select something that I already chose to ignore. I don't have that sense of "hey cool, i can't wait to earn that!" (and my personal wish is that they'd give me a holy shotgun instead ). If they did choose to provide a "really good" item, then I wouldn't mind if it had a crazy long recharge to keep it from being abused. Maybe the nictus or nullifier guns would be fun to have.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
GC
MA Arc: School Spirit #89349
Original member of the Dream Team Aeon, Virtue division
"A base here or there is a small price to pay for good mad science."--Arbiter Daos
Just wondering if anyone else has had a problem with not yet receiving their 51 month vet reward? According to my NCSOFT account, I should have gotten it around the 2nd of August. Is this a bug issue?
[ QUOTE ]
Whta I've suggested in the past is that the devs make a "veteran melee power pool" and a "veteran ranged power pool" and add powers to each as necessary. Make the veteran rewards grant one choice from the appropriate pool. So if they decide to add some new snazzy veteran attack, newer players will still have a shot at them before they grow old and die. The advantage older players will have is that they will have more *selections* but not necessarily a better set of selections which means there is less of a problem adding overly interesting veteran attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
I'sd like to take a step back here and address my main concern when creating a character. CONCEPT. This Veteran pool of powers should be an assortment of powers a Veteran can use to polish their character's concept. Does he have a Ray Gun? a Scabard for his sword, a Bow and arrows, a Sword?
It would be terrific if we were worried a little more about Concept and not so much about Min-Maxing.
[ QUOTE ]
I'sd like to take a step back here and address my main concern when creating a character. CONCEPT. This Veteran pool of powers should be an assortment of powers a Veteran can use to polish their character's concept. Does he have a Ray Gun? a Scabard for his sword, a Bow and arrows, a Sword?
It would be terrific if we were worried a little more about Concept and not so much about Min-Maxing.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree! I mentioned the same thing just last page. Previous post
I try to pick the rewards that further my character's theme, and I hope we continue to get more variety in our choices, not repeats of items that didn't fit my concept the first time around.
MA Arc: School Spirit #89349
Original member of the Dream Team Aeon, Virtue division
"A base here or there is a small price to pay for good mad science."--Arbiter Daos
[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering if anyone else has had a problem with not yet receiving their 51 month vet reward? According to my NCSOFT account, I should have gotten it around the 2nd of August. Is this a bug issue?
[/ QUOTE ]
I saw this and realized the same...am 20 days late on my 51....anyone else? do I need to petition?
oh.. I know.. the next Vet reward should be a gaint easy button right.. click it and boom.. ALL your characters are automatically level 50 with full IO sets in all powers and every badge right?
Get over yourselves.. they don't have to give us anything.. they're PERKS.. not privliages..
Weak!!
anyone not at 51 months yet is content with the un-imaginative Vet rewards becuase its not something within their reach in a reasonable amount of time.. For some of us who have been around that long we deserve alot better then a rehash of the same gift that was already offered to us. it has nothing to do with wether its useful or not its the lack of thought put into it. it would be like if every year for your birthday i offered you a hat or a scarf, even if the hat will look great with the scarf, its the same things you offered me last year. and this crap about they dont have to give you anything??? its a priveledge not a right?? we have been loyal CoH/CoV subscribers for over 4 years.. and dont tell me the free issue updates to the game cover that, becuase it doesnt. we all pay something like $120 a year for our subscription and generally PC games go for about $40 brand new thats = to 4 new games a year... wich is on par with the 4 issues a year they have been producing so the 2 cancel each other out. so now you need to come up with a system to keep players from canceling and picking up a new game. In comes Vet Rewards!
In short Vet Rewards as a whole is a great idea and most of them are very well thought out, but dont think for a second that the Real Veterans of the "City of" Universe are gonna be content with Hats and Scarves again this year... its a bit insulting.
Also reading through the same comments over and over again just comming out of someone elses mouth is a big waist of time and pages.. can we just come up with a FOR or AGAINST voting system and maybe a comments box for each rather then wading through all the greenhorns who wont even be getting the 51 month badge anytimes soon, becuase realy their opinions are arbitrary (sp) and pointless.
Uncommon: lvl 100!! fire/stone tank Champion
"GO..HUNT....KILL MITOS!!"
I haven't been around for awhile, probably six mionths or so, but it is nice to see that nothing has changed on the forums, just a bunch of whiners drowning out the occasional good idea.
Bless you all, for not changing
[ QUOTE ]
Also reading through the same comments over and over again just comming out of someone elses mouth is a big waist of time and pages.. can we just come up with a FOR or AGAINST voting system and maybe a comments box for each rather then wading through all the greenhorns who wont even be getting the 51 month badge anytimes soon, becuase realy their opinions are arbitrary (sp) and pointless.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL I don't know whether to say ...."well then take your ball and go home, junior!"
or
finally someone has explained to me that I am not worthy of sitting at the adult table, 
and maybe its ME thats not worthy of playing CoX.
Really these kind of rants are laughable.
[ QUOTE ]
...
In short Vet Rewards as a whole is a great idea and most of them are very well thought out, but dont think for a second that the Real Veterans of the "City of" Universe...
[/ QUOTE ]
"Real Veterans"? Hehe. Thanks, I needed a laugh today.
Vet Rewards are a way to say "Thank you for sticking around. Here's a little something extra for you."
Some seem to be getting this confused with the systems meant to keep players from canceling, like the new content they keep generating. Y'know, those Issues we don't pay extra for, or the minipacks of whatnot that we do, or the services like buyable respecs. The stuff that wasn't here at Day 1.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
[ QUOTE ]
Always looking for trouble. ;]
[/ QUOTE ]
hey whats up ACE!! you know me always stirring the pot lol
i could care less about these people and their need to rant.. bunch of Rosie O'donells and their need to blog lmao..
i think i was just venting after reading 25 pages of the same 2 posts over and over ie.
"they dont have to give us anything"
"i always wanted the other 3 helmets"
apparently when something is a gift it doesnt need to have any thought behind nor be an original idea.. just be happy you got anything? reminds me of the stories our parents would tell us about having to share a coat with their brother in the winter, or recieving a block of wood with wheels drawn on the side and told it was a race car for x-mas.. just be happy you got anything.. i didnt realize so many of these people grew up in the depression?
i feel like Oliver Twist... "AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO WANTS MORE POURAGE?"
about 90% of you are all sheep blogging about how content you are and excited about the most mundane announcement.
so be content with your 1 bowl of pourage... devs i will be having the lobster today.
Uncommon: lvl 100!! fire/stone tank Champion
"GO..HUNT....KILL MITOS!!"
51 - Don't care about ugly helmets.
54 - Agreed, new power for 54 month please.
Also kind of sad in a way that a lot of my new alts will be natural origin now unless I have a really strong concept for them otherwise. Would rather they fix that. I kind of liked origin being more a flavor choice excepting the rare trick arrow character who doesn't otherwise have fire/energy powers. That double bonus damage is going to be too tempting on many...
Nice that they are back to announcing them in advance at least though, maybe it isn't too late to make a change...