Impressive. Strike does double damage of Claws Scrapper's Strike and Spin 50% more. Very nice guide.
Wow, looking good. A decent PvE stalker at last.
Nice Guide(s) Gameboy, mucho appreciated! 
Lunge isn't a level 2 power anymore it seems. I got slash at level 2.
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Lunge isn't a level 2 power anymore it seems. I got slash at level 2.
[/ QUOTE ]
Gah, you're right. Castle switched those two a while ago, because he wanted to switch the animations. So he switched the WHOLE POWER.
I hadn't updated my guide. Good catch, thanks.
Also, the Endurance costs of the toggles has gone up from 0.05 to 0.10. You may wish to slot one EndRedux to cut down the End cost of all those toggles.
I've updated the guide for both of these points.
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Lunge isn't a level 2 power anymore it seems. I got slash at level 2.
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You got Strike at 2. Lunge is at 12 with Spin.
BTW I got a pretty good attack chain with Follow Up, Strike and Lunge as well as a ranged one with Poison Dart and Dart Burst. So I disagree a bit on Dark Burst's rating, worth 3.5 stars to me at least.
Found some more typos, fixed 'em.
I should probably bump the rating of Dart Burst, I just didn't like jumping out of melee range to aim. On large teams that got a few people wacked good as a large spawn all took aim at them. Still I think you're right, the basic rating should be higher.
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The Blood Widow is an excellent melee combat archetype. Blood Widows can solo well and are even better on teams. Their damage output is very strong and they have good defenses.
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I laughed when I saw that, because I read another thread earlier today that said BW damage is weak and their defense poor. (I think it was the "can VEAT solo?" thread)
anyway, I have no personal opinion, my widow is lvl2 until tonight.
I'll be using this info in this guide to make my levelling decisions, thanks for posting.
From what I've seen, Dart Burst actually quite nice on larger teams, especially for an opening. Pretty standard cone with a surprisingly fast activation time (faster than shooting a single dart, which strikes me as odd).
I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to work Stamina into my character, myself; for some reason, once I started using IW, my end just started bottoming out. I think I'll just be relying on temp travel powers until level 28 or so, which isn't so bad.
Yeah Blood Widows are not Claws/Regen Scrappers but they sure don't suck. I'd say they're roughly even solo with my DB/WP scrapper.
Widows seem to have a bit more offense than DB, the accuracy and to-hit bonuses are huge. I was switching back and forth between test and live at one point just to compare Widows with DB. I think folks who think widows are under powered are remembering their level 50 toon, not a toon in its teens.
RttC definitely beats Widows defensively however.
On teams, once you get a couple of toggles on everyone, SoA are pretty close to being over-powered. Four SoA are all you need, running a couple of toggles each. Even just two SoA is nice.
Small error: you've listed both TT: Assault and TT: Maneuvers to be taken at level 18.
Yup, yet another typo. Thanks!
The ACC thing could also do with the beginners luck on test, but not on live. I'd suggest ignoring acc when comparing.
I like the guide, but 2 attacks for 12 levels of play seems a tad harsh. I see why you did it, but it must be really hard to avoid another attack in that time.
+Edit+
Oops, missed follow up.
And no stamina needed?
Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)
I can attest from LOTS of VEAT testing (made the closed beta yay!) that Widows just plain rock IMHO. However, I wish to make a few comments:
I tried to get a 'pure melee' build to work well without Stamina and had trouble making it work to my satisfaction. The recharges and End costs on many of the attacks above Swipe are a tad high to go all-melee for me.
All that being said I DID get a mixed-range Widow to work without Stamina well into the 20s (I got to 28 IIRC). The play style was not the ferret on crack speed that so many prefer but I could solo with it on Viscious Diff with little trouble. Teamed would have been even better.
I do not understand the problem so many have with taking even one ranged attack in their melee-centric builds. Even the Blood Widows we fight in the game have Dart for heaven's sake. The recharge is good, the damage good, the End cost light, it has the full 80' range and it does Toxic damage. I use it in melee all the time, I simply discount the fact that it's a ranged attack and trigger it along with the rest. However when that one wounded runner takes off I'm usually damn glad I have it (I hate runners...).
Spin from Hide is wonderful! If you intend to play as more of a Stalker then take BU instead of Follow Up (they're mutually exclusive now) and the two tear spawns up.
If you like to play FAST this is the AT for you IMHO. I've played Stalkers, Scrappers and Buzzsaw Brutes and nothing feels as fast as my Widow past lvl 27 (lvl 30 SOs and IOs make an otherwise good set really sing!). Even before that if you're willing to take the faster early Powers (like Dart) and you're not ashamed to have the Thrown Knife and even Brawl on the attack chain you'll never be bored after about lvl 8 or so.
I also go with the Temp Travel Powers early on (I have a large SG with teleporters and I take Swift even if I'm not getting Stamina). One of the joys of this set is the way the Devs laid out the order the Powers come up. You get attacks early on but if you like fighting defensive you CAN take CT: Defense right away. The early attacks are single-target but the AoEs open up fairly early compared to some if you team a lot or if you adjust the Diff for the odd setting for bigger spawns. Unlike some Powersets on some ATs where you often feel like you HAVE to take a certain Power or go to the Pool Powers VEATs give you LOTS of options.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
Nice info but it is important to remember that most people with a 50 villain probably have been around long enough to have Veteran powers. These are free do a LOT of damage and are hugely useful in 1-20 game especially if you have + ToHit/Acc powers.
They do cause redraws however so you have to learn to use your 2 Vet powers together then your AT attacks together. Vet powers do a lot of damage (more than most any AT power prior to 20) and the wand/staff has a fair range for pulling.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
In your build you said
EndRedux does not work the way most other enhancements work, so I've changed my recommendations here. Slotting a 30% EndRedux enhancement does not give a 30% reduction is endurance cost. It's more like 23%. And more EndRedux enhancements will give even less benefit. (EndRedux has a sliding scale that reduces it more than just standard Enhancement Diversification caps. I'll talk about this later.)
I didnt see any talk about it so would you pls tell me what you ment of mabe a lonk of where you did?
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study Hard. Be evil.
The widow is a nice, fast and fun-to-play AT. I love it. The early game is VERY nice (between the +TH buff for n00bs under 20 and the +ACC auto, you'll rarely miss).
Later, the melee attacks become ridiculously-priced endurance wise - mainly because if you are used to claws and their cheap endurance attacks, you'll not find the same here.
Slash is a great attack, but costs over 14 endurance! Yikes! Is it as cool as Knockout Blow or Energy Transfer? NO WAY, but it is your BEST single-target attack; from hide, it's like a gimped stalker.
So in the early levels (pre-Masked Presence or hide) the build feels like a blaster. Or Blapper, to be precise. Except without the HP, but with mez protection and a little defense.
Then, in the late 20's / early 30's you can decide to become stalker-esque. A slowed down version of a blapper, waiting for Hide or Placate... still, playing in this style makes me think "This is what stalkers should have been like"
...well, before they got even MORE buffs...
Widows can be challenging, if you push it; but if you are a more timid player, they will be loads of fun!
Currently at level 40 on my Widow, I'd like to know what the options are for Patrons.
-r0y
"Look how many pages of crap are in this thread already!" -r0y to all threads on these forums.
Same as Brutes.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Blood Widow, Blood Roses
4
4
3
4
). If you have any veteran reward powers, by all means add those to your attack chain also. Sands of Mu is an excellent filler for new Widows.
4
3
2
3
4
5
4
4
TT: Assault doesn't really take anything, so it's good to have a couple of attack powers around to put slots into.
3
3
4
5
Blood roses
Blood roses
Back on the street now
-- Tori Amos
The Blood Widow is an excellent melee combat archetype. Blood Widows can solo well and are even better on teams. Their damage output is very strong and they have good defenses. Various boost powers from both their secondary and primary raise their damage even more. Their Combat Training gives both them and their teammates a benefit.
So why build a pure melee Blood Widow? Well foregoing ranged attacks is a little controversial. The lower level ranged attacks are unique, and give the class it's signature ranged-plus-melee primary. However, the melee attacks are hard hitting, and a Blood Widow has more melee defense than ranged. Staying in close combat is therefore a benefit, and as long as your foes are close, why not use the fast activating melee attacks?
This is a guide for builds from levels 1 through 23. At level 24, you will respec. You can of course rebuild your character exactly the same way, but many players will choose to add abilities from their new primary and secondary. Therefore, you should consult a guide for either the Night Widow or the Fortunata for your post-level 24 build.
* Level 1 : Swipe
(Take at level 1)
Average Damage @ 50: 57.83 (44.49 lethal, 3x 4.45 toxic over 2.1s)
Recharge Time: 4.00 s
Endurance Cost: 3.21
Activation Time: 0.67 s
Debuff: -20% to run, fly and jump speed, jump height and Recharge for 4 seconds
Hide/Placate: +29.66 lethal
Overall Score:
Slotting : Three slot for damage ASAP
Swipe is a hard hitting attack. It has a longer recharge time and endurance cost than I would prefer, but its damage makes it a good investment for both damage-per-second (DPS) and damage-per-endurance (DPE). Three slot for damage first to gain the most advantage for DPS and DPE. Then consider adding one EndRedux and one Recharge enhancement.
Level 1: Poison Dart
Average Damage @ 50: 72.29
Recharge Time: 4.00 s
Endurance Cost: 5.20
Activation Time: 1.50 s
Accuracy: 1.05
Damage detail: 55.61 lethal, 3x 5.56 toxic over 2.1s
Debuff: -25% regeneration for 15s
Overall Score:
Slotting : I skipped this power, but I'd three slot for damage ASAP
Poison Dart is a bit higher damage than Swipe 13.0 vs 10.4 at level 1 but also has a longer activation time. Since I'm going for as many attacks as I can cram into an attack chain after Follow Up, I went with Swipe instead. Still Poison Dart is nothing to sneeze at and would make an excellent first power. It's a ranged attack so it's also convenient to pull with if you need that. I do think that getting into a ranged battle as a Widow is a poorer proposition than sticking to melee.
* Level 1: Combat Training: Defense
(Take at level 1)
Defense: +7.5% melee defense
Resistance: 0.4% Resistance to all (except Psi and Toxic) for each 1% of health below 75%
Overall Score:
Slotting : Leave as one slotted for lower levels.
Combat Training: Defense gives you +7.5% melee defense and sliding resists. This is where the disparity for defense for a Blood Widow comes from. Well, CT: Defense is required since it's your level one secondary, so we're going to make good use of it by sticking to melee combat as much as possible. The sliding resists are 0.4 percent of resistance to all for each percent health below 75 percent. So if you are at 50% health, your resists are (75 50) x 0.4 = 10% across the board. That helps make up for the Widow's relatively low hit points. Since Foresight gives exactly the same sliding resists, your resistances will double at level 20 if you take Foresight (which I recommend you do).
* Level 2 : Strike
(Take at level 2)
Average Damage @ 50: 111.66 (2x 48.05 lethal over .6s, 4x 3.89 toxic over 3.1s)
Recharge Time: 8.00 s
Endurance Cost: 4.49
Activation Time: 1.67 s
Debuff: -20% to run, fly and jump speed, jump height and Recharge for 6 seconds
Hide/Placate: 64.06 lethal
Overall Score:
Slotting : 5 or 6 slot asap. Three damage first, then EndRedux and Recharge.
Strike is a big heavy hitting power that's truly awesome at low levels and beyond. Its only real problem is its long recharge, which is a bit of a pain. You'll need to fill in your attack chain with Brawl and Throwing Knife at low levels (by low levels, I mean up to level 12
Those four powers Swipe, Strike, Brawl and Throwing Knife are your attack chain below level 8, so try to like them. At some point, many of you will get bored at such a short attack chain and want to take Poison Dart. Well, I don't blame you, but try to hold out, because help is on the way, because Follow Up is available at level 8.
* Level 2 : Combat Training: Offense
(Take at level 4.)
Accuracy: +10% to self
Debuff Resistance: 33% resistance to Accuracy Debuffs
Overall Score:
Slotting: Only one for now. Slot for Accuracy. You may have to add one slot here depending if you feel at level 7 you have nothing better to slot.
CT: Offense is a big part of what makes this build work. It adds 10% accuracy to all attacks. That's like having your attacks slotted for accuracy right away at level four. Since you don't need to slot for Accuracy (as much) you can forgo Accuracy enhancements and slot for damage to improve your DPS and DPE. Since the bonus to CT:O is large, it will be worth slotting in the future. And the best part: it's a passive power. No endurance cost!
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers
Endurance: 0.10 per second
Defense: +5 Defense to all in an 80 ft. radius.
Overall Score:
Slotting: I skipped this power until level 18. One slot for EndRedux, then add Defense slots slowly as you have extra slots.
This is a fantastic power that costs far far less to run than the Leadership pool version. Why did I skip it? As I explain in my Good Fortunata, Bad Fortunata guide, Widows need offense at first to be effective. Once you get all or most of your offensive powers, then start adding in Defense. If you don't, you'll level like a Issue 1 Invulnerable Super Strength Tanker... who's been slept. Ie., all defense, no offense. Trust me, I tried it and it didn't work. Go for offense, you have just enough defense in this build to let you kill stuff. That way was far more fun for me.
* Level 6 : Combat Jumping
(Take at level 6)
Jumping: 200% on Jump height
Defense: +2.50% to all Defense
Endurance: 0.06 endurance per second
Jump Speed: +10% to jump speed
Protection @ level 50: 10.38 Immobilize Protection
Overall Score:
Slotting : Only one. Slot for whatever I slotted one defense.
A good utility power, immobilize protection, opens the way for travel powers later and adds a bit of defense, which stacks with other Widow defense. Nice!
This is a part of the build that you may want to modify however. Many folks like to use the temporary travel powers and focus on other powers. Since all Soldiers of Arachnos are experienced players who have a level 50 villain, most of you will modify this guide to suit your own playstyle. If you are going to skip your travel powers, you can also delay Combat Jumping. Take Poison Dart or Combat Training: Maneuvers in its place.
Level 6: Dart Burst
Average Damage @ 50: 60.6 Cone, 50 ft x 30 degree arc
Recharge Time: 8.00 s
Endurance Cost: 8.53
Activation Time: 2.00 s
Accuracy: 1.05
Damage: 3x 14.18 lethal over 0.8s, 6x 80% of 6.12 toxic over 5s
Debuff: -25% regeneration on target for 15 seconds
Overall Score:
Slotting : I didn't take it but probably 3 Damage like everything else, then add one EndRedux.
Dart Burst gives you an AoE attack at level 6. Unfortunately, the damage is not that high, and to aim the cone effectively you have to jump out of melee. This usually results in you taking a big Ranged attack from all enemies, which the Widow's defense is ill-suited for. I prefer to stay in melee range and use my better melee defense. That and the lack luster damage meant I skipped this power.
* Level 8 : Follow Up
(Take at level 8)
Average Damage @ 50: 50.72
Recharge Time: 12.00 s
Endurance Cost: 10.19
Activation Time: 0.67 s
To Hit: +10% to To-Hit on self
Damage Buff: +30% to Damage on self
Placate/Hide: +33.81 lethal
Overall Score:
Slotting : Only three slots for now. One To-Hit, one Accuracy, one Recharge.
Follow Up gives very modest damage, and has a long recharge. What it does do is give you is +10% To-Hit and +33% Damage for 20 seconds. That's enough for your entire attack chain, and Swipe twice. Nice! Put this power in tray slot number 1, lead off every attack chain with it, you won't regret it.
Between Follow Up and Combat Training: Offense I can nearly cap my To-Hit at 93%. This is so sweet. Widows are arguably a bit weaker than a Dual Blade/Will Power Scrapper, until you figure in these To-Hit bonuses and Accuracy bonuses. My DB/WP Scrapper burns a lot of Endurance at level 16 on misses. Widows don't.
You gave him your blood
And your warm little diamond
He likes killing you after you're dead
-- Tori Amos
The build so far: At level 10, you should have:
Level 1 : Swipe (DDD), Combat Training: Defense (d)
Level 2 : Strike (DDDE)
Level 4 : CT: Offense (AA)
Level 6 : Combat Jumping (d)
Level 8 : Follow Up (RRH)
Level 10: Indomitable Will (E)
On these mini builds, I put the Enhancements in parenthesis: (D) Damage, (E) EndRedux, (d) Defense, (H) To-Hit, (R) Recharge.
* Level 10: Indomitable Will
(Take at level 10)
Endurance: 0.21 endurance per second
Protection @ level 50: 10.38 Stun, Sleep, Hold, Confuse, Terrorize, and Immobilize. 10 protection to Knockup, Knockback and Repel at all levels, I think.
Defense: +10% to Psionic
Overall Score:
Slotting: Only one for now. Slot EndRedux immediately. Consider one more EndRedux when you have extra slots.
Indomitable Will, don't leave home without it. I love this power.
EndRedux does not work the way most other enhancements work, so I've changed my recommendations here. Slotting a 30% EndRedux enhancement does not give a 30% reduction is endurance cost. It's more like 23%. And more EndRedux enhancements will give even less benefit. (EndRedux has a sliding scale that reduces it more than just standard Enhancement Diversification caps. I'll talk about this later.)
* Level 12: Lunge
(Take at level 12)
Average Damage @ 50: 123.68
Recharge Time: 12.00 s
Endurance Cost: 9.49
Activation Time: 0.83 s
Damage detail: 101.43 lethal + 4x 5.56 toxic over 3.1 seconds
Debuff: -30% to run, fly and jump speed, jump height and Recharge for 8 seconds
Placate/Hide: +67.62 lethal
Overall Score:
Slotting: Three slot for Damage, then one EndRedux and one Recharge.
I recommend Lunge over Spin at level 12. (Yes, it appears this is not a bug. Widows get two primary power slot choices at 12.) Lunge does more damage and has a shorter activation time, so it's better suited to being boosted by Follow Up. However, if you are teamed a lot, then Spin does impressive damage to a relatively large number of enemies. I'd consider taking Spin instead of Lunge if I was in a large VG with lots of active members to team with.
Level 12: Spin
(Take at level 16)
Average Damage @ 50: 95.68, 8 ft. radius PBAoE
Recharge Time: 14.00 s
Endurance Cost: 16.85
Activation Time: 2.50 s
Damage detail: 73.44 lethal, 4x 5.6 toxic over 3.1s
Debuff: -20% to run, fly and jump speed, jump height and Recharge for 6 seconds
Hide/Placate: 50% chance of +48.96 lethal
Overall Score:
Slotting : Three slot for Damage when you take it. Slot for EndRedux and Recharge when you can.
Spin is a nice opener after a Follow Up or Build Up on large spawns. I haven't tried it while hidden yet, I'm sure it's very impressive. I took this at level 16, before TT: Assault, so I would have something to slot during my build.
* Level 14: Super Jump
(Take at level 14)
Endurance Cost: 0.45 endurance / s
Jump: +3800% Jump height and +340% to Jump Speed
I've put this travel power here at 14 because it's what you should do. If you want to use temp travel powers and take Spin or Maneuvers here, by all means go ahead.
For those of you playing along at home, the build at this point should look something like this:
Level 1 : Swipe (DDD), Combat Training: Defense (d)
Level 2 : Strike (DDDE)
Level 4 : CT: Offense (AA)
Level 6 : Combat Jumping (d)
Level 8 : Follow Up (ARHRR)
Level 10: Indomitable Will (E)
Level 12: Lunge (DDDER)
Level 14: Super Jump (J)
Level 16: Spin (D)
* Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault
(Take at level 18)
Endurance Cost: 0.10 endurance / s
Protection: +5 to Placate and Taunt protection
Damage Buff: +15% to all damage, 80 ft. PBAoE
Overall Score:
Slotting : One slot for EndRedux. It would take anything else, and doesn't need more than one.
Yes, it's Assault, from the Leadership pool. Except it costs almost nothing to run. Don't slot this for EndRedux, it doesn't need it. Actually don't slot this at all, it doesn't take anything useful. The +15% to Damage is worth it however, even solo, and darned impressive on teams.
* Level 18: Take Tactical Training: Manuevers
Slotting : One Defense enhancement, add up to three total as you have extra slots.
It's finally time to take this power. (See level 4 for its description.) Mostly because we have everything else we need. One slot it for Defense, then add up to three slots total as you have extra slots.
Level 18: Confront
Activation: 1.67
Recharge: 3.00s
lvl:18
Target Debuff: Mag 4 taunt for 26.25s.
Overall Score:
Slotting : One Taunt Duration if you take it.
For a Blood Widow, I don't think this power is needed. You have enough damage to atract attention when you want. And Blood Widow defense aren't quite up to the point where you should be Confronting enemies. At higher levels, this may change and you may actually wish to try tanking Elite Bosses and even AVs/Heroes. For now though stick with more mundane things, like damage output.
* Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership
(Take at level 20)
Endurance Cost: 0.10 endurance / s
To-Hit Buff: +10% To-Hit, 80 ft. PBAoE
Perception: +70 feet to Perception radius
Protection: +5 to Confuse and Terrorize protection
Status Resistance: +60% to Confuse and Terrorize resistance
Perception Resistance: +50% to Perception resistance
Overall Score:
Slotting : Slot one EndRedux, add up to three To-Hit total when you have slots.
Yes, more To-Hit buffing. Are we over 100% To-Hit? I think we are. Slot this for To-Hit buffs, don't bother with EndRedux, it's only 0.05 end / s.
* Level 22: Foresight
(Take at level 22)
Defense: +7.5% Defense to Melee, Ranged and AoE on self
Resistance: +20% Psionic Resistance on self
Resistance: Sliding resists, +0.4% resistance to all (except Psi and Toxic) for each 1% HP less than 75%
Status Resistance: +25% resistance to Stun, Sleep, Immobilize, Hold, Terrorize and Confuse on self.
Debuff Resistance: +17.30% Defense Debuff resistance.
Overall Score:
Slotting : Three slot for defense ASAP. I'm not sure slotting for resistance is worth it however.
Did I miss anything from that list above? Don't miss taking this power. It's crucial to all Widow builds. The combination of Defense, Psi resistance, Status Resists, sliding resistance buff and defense debuff resistance make this power a must. And it's a passive.
Here's the final build at level 23:
Level 1 : Swipe (DDDE), Combat Training: Defense (d)
Level 2 : Strike (DDDERE)
Level 4 : CT: Offense (A)
Level 6 : Combat Jumping (d)
Level 8 : Follow Up (RRHAR)
Level 10: Indomitable Will (E)
Level 12: Lunge (DDDER)
Level 14: Super Jump (J)
Level 16: Spin (DDDER)
Level 18: TT: Assault ( E )
Level 20: TT: Leadership (E)
Level 22: Foresight (ddd)
Next up: Night Widow or Fortunata too gosh danged many powers to choose.
The belle of new orleans tried to show me
Once how to tango
Wrapped around your feet
Wrapped around like good little roses
-- Tori Amos