"Justice League of America" piece finally complete
By
Ballista,
Posted on: 2008-03-10 21:42 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
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Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.
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Slacker.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.
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So, if I have this correct, you could, for example, have a 3d with Tanks or Ms. Frost's face done up, then it would be somewhat less labor intensive to do a second piece with a different costume, background, etc.? And so, while the initial cost might be higher, follow-up work might be less expensive? For example?
Not that I'm implying anything here, just ruminating. 
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Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.
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So, if I have this correct, you could, for example, have a 3d with Tanks or Ms. Frost's face done up, then it would be somewhat less labor intensive to do a second piece with a different costume, background, etc.? And so, while the initial cost might be higher, follow-up work might be less expensive? For example?
Not that I'm implying anything here, just ruminating.
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Well... kinda.
Usually, the largest effort in a piece is setting up the entire environment, background, lighting, and the time it takes to render that piece. If I added a second character, I don't automatically double the cost because my computer is still only rendering a single piece of art... so the time isn't doubled.
But you're essentially correct; now that I have a 3D model of Ms. Frost done, that effort is pretty much removed from any future pieces. That assumes she stays in the same costume. However, the base cost/effort of setting up a new scene and the time it takes to render is still there.
Hypothetically, of course. 
Very very well done....but..
No Flash? You have The Black Vulcan, but not The Flash? =[
Damn great job! Better than the comics. I like Benes but I don't think WW and BC are going to attack with their behinds.
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Very very well done....but..
No Flash? You have The Black Vulcan, but not The Flash? =[
[/ QUOTE ]That's the JLA's current line up.
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Very very well done....but..
No Flash? You have The Black Vulcan, but not The Flash? =[
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DJ did the current JLA roster. That's why also J'onn isn't in there either.
Edit: and speaking of the Flash, Foo rushed in a reply faster than I could. lol
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Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.
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So, if I have this correct, you could, for example, have a 3d with Tanks or Ms. Frost's face done up, then it would be somewhat less labor intensive to do a second piece with a different costume, background, etc.? And so, while the initial cost might be higher, follow-up work might be less expensive? For example?
Not that I'm implying anything here, just ruminating.
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Well... kinda.
Usually, the largest effort in a piece is setting up the entire environment, background, lighting, and the time it takes to render that piece. If I added a second character, I don't automatically double the cost because my computer is still only rendering a single piece of art... so the time isn't doubled.
But you're essentially correct; now that I have a 3D model of Ms. Frost done, that effort is pretty much removed from any future pieces. That assumes she stays in the same costume. However, the base cost/effort of setting up a new scene and the time it takes to render is still there.
Hypothetically, of course.
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I've long thought that if one could get enough of the base elements together, it would be a much more efficient process to create a comic with a 3D program over drawing it. Of course, the more issues you do the more efficient it becomes, since you'll build up a library along the way, effectively amortizing the investment of up-front design time.
The only problem is that currently programs like Poser aren't as good at rendering images and scenes as traditional art, at least to my mind. I think it's safe to say that you are among the top artists working with Poser, certainly of the ones I've seen (and I spend a lot of time paging through DA and CG Channel and suchlike), but even your 3D stuff pales by comparison to your traditional work.
The tech hasn't caught up to your skill, yet. Programs like Maya create better-looking finished results, but my nodding familiarity with them indicates that creating things like this scene you've just done is still far more difficult and requires a lot more rendering time.
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I like that look. The only thing that seems "off" is Canary's hair. But it could just be me. But anyways, WOW!
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Very very well done....but..
No Flash? You have The Black Vulcan, but not The Flash? =[
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You mean Black Lightning?
As mentioned above, it's the current roster. I did that purposefully, because I hope to send this piece to DC (along with several others in the works), and I want to demonstrate knowledge of their current universe.
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I've long thought that if one could get enough of the base elements together, it would be a much more efficient process to create a comic with a 3D program over drawing it...
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BINGO!
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The only problem is that currently programs like Poser aren't as good at rendering images and scenes as traditional art, at least to my mind...
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Believe me, you're not the only one that feels that way. My own brother wants me to go back to traditional methods... but I prefer to push the envelope. I learn something with every 3D piece, and it's exciting for me to get results I didn't have to meticulously plan out and hand-draw.
But as you said, digital art isn't quite mature enough. I want to be the pioneer that makes it happen.
Here's the problem; if I were to try to enter the comics world, I'd probably succeed. I'd probably do pretty well at is... but I'd be one of a hundred-thousand others that can all do just as well. Some even better. But with digital, I'm trying to accomplish things no one else has succeeded at yet. The few forrays into digital comics have all pretty much failed, so if I can make it work, I'll have something unique. Something special. Something different.
Besides, if we can have cartoons AND live-action versions of Batman (for example), why can't we have traditional AND digital versions in print? I think they can co-exist. One does not need to replace the other.
So I push forward.
It's a worthy cause, especially for someone who has tackled and succeeded well enough in the traditional theater... good luck DJ! And don't forget to share the artses... 
We likes to look.
LJ
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to repainting hair (Wonder Woman)
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I think your repainted hair looks much better than the rendered one on BC. The hair models from Poser are ok, but generally when the artist paints it, the result is more realistic.
All in all a very nice job with the render. Did you make the cowl for Batman yourself or did you find it somewhere?
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Very very well done....but..
No Flash? You have The Black Vulcan, but not The Flash? =[
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DJ did the current JLA roster. That's why also J'onn isn't in there either.
Edit: and speaking of the Flash, Foo rushed in a reply faster than I could. lol
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I'm wicked fast, especially with commissions: order some art from me now!! 
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I've long thought that if one could get enough of the base elements together, it would be a much more efficient process to create a comic with a 3D program over drawing it...
[/ QUOTE ]
BINGO!
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The only problem is that currently programs like Poser aren't as good at rendering images and scenes as traditional art, at least to my mind...
[/ QUOTE ]
Believe me, you're not the only one that feels that way. My own brother wants me to go back to traditional methods... but I prefer to push the envelope. I learn something with every 3D piece, and it's exciting for me to get results I didn't have to meticulously plan out and hand-draw.
But as you said, digital art isn't quite mature enough. I want to be the pioneer that makes it happen.
Here's the problem; if I were to try to enter the comics world, I'd probably succeed. I'd probably do pretty well at is... but I'd be one of a hundred-thousand others that can all do just as well. Some even better. But with digital, I'm trying to accomplish things no one else has succeeded at yet. The few forrays into digital comics have all pretty much failed, so if I can make it work, I'll have something unique. Something special. Something different.
Besides, if we can have cartoons AND live-action versions of Batman (for example), why can't we have traditional AND digital versions in print? I think they can co-exist. One does not need to replace the other.
So I push forward.
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That's a cool picture and a worthy goal.
If I may offer one suggestion for your image... have you tried an image where all the heroes are looking directly at the camera/viewer? I think the image might have more impact if the heroes aren't looking at my gut. It might be more of an update of the JL covers done by Kevin Maguire.
Once you get the heroes' looks down, will you do other poses and group shots to show them off?
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... have you tried an image where all the heroes are looking directly at the camera/viewer?...
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This idea has been brought up several times, and possibly should have been implemented. But now that I've published the piece to several websites, I doubt I'll change it. That is, unless DC calls me, at which point I'll make ANY change they desire =)
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...Once you get the heroes' looks down, will you do other poses and group shots to show them off?...
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I'm already making several action shots. I want to get more motion into the pieces, plus adding emotion to their faces. Poser is SO bad at expressions that I'm taking more time than usual to get it right.
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plus adding emotion to their faces. Poser is SO bad at expressions that I'm taking more time than usual to get it right.
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Oh cool, that's one thing that was bugging me, a few of them didn't look right regarding their facial expressions. Vixen and Superman and Red Arrow stand out in that regard a bit, thought it was just me.
MA Arcs - #67636, #92202
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Slag Heap: Why you hurt Guardian!? Guardian no hurt you!
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plus adding emotion to their faces. Poser is SO bad at expressions that I'm taking more time than usual to get it right.
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Oh cool, that's one thing that was bugging me, a few of them didn't look right regarding their facial expressions. Vixen and Superman and Red Arrow stand out in that regard a bit, thought it was just me.
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Naw, that shot was meant to be 'posed'. Future ones will be more active.
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I'm already making several action shots. I want to get more motion into the pieces, plus adding emotion to their faces. Poser is SO bad at expressions that I'm taking more time than usual to get it right.
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JoelGecko's got some really good facial poses available over at DAZ's website. They're more than just the regular set of symmetrical facial expressions that most people seem to make. You might want to check them out if you haven't seen them yet. Here's a link. The 3rd Generation set might be particularly useful.
I hope this helps. Keep up the excellent work!
Wow, that's really incredible. I've seen a lot of Poser art over the years, but I've never seen anyone pull off anything that cool with the program before.
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[ QUOTE ]
Regarding postwork in general - The purpose behind modelling the characters as accurately as possible in 3D is specifically to avoid excessive postwork such as repainting faces. If I were assigned to create a full comic, there is absolutely no way I could do an entire issue (let alone a mini-series) where I needed to repaint every face on every panel from scratch. Thus, I'm leaning towards the comptuer-generated faces and trying to perfect those likenesses.
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Given that you are trying to get away from post work and rely more on pure 3d, now's a great time to drop Poser like a bad habit. In my opinion, you're a skilled and talented artist who's invested in a workflow based on a crappy tool. Poser makes sense if you're using it as a point of departure for substantial post work. For an extended project where it will be used panel after panel, page after page for an entire book I have a hard time believing that post will be enough to compensate for the overall quality level.
This image, after lots of post, still has the hallmarks of Poser: bland lighting and rendering, a generic stock feeling to the characters, poor plastic-looking materials, etc. Batman's cape looks like it was a ball of hot plastic that melted over him. I'm not saying this is bad work;this is great work for someone using Poser. If you took a crayon and painted the Sistine chapel with it, I'd feel the same way. "That's awesome, I just wish you hadn't done it in crayon."
Some people have described digital art as being too immature to handle this sort of project. I'm not sure what art they're looking at. There are artists doing digital sculpture with ZBrush and Mudbox that is both quickly produced and insanely detailed.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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There are artists doing digital sculpture with ZBrush and Mudbox that is both quickly produced and insanely detailed.
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Links please!!!
For Zbrush:
www.pixologic.com Check out the gallery.
www.zbrushcentral.com
User forum, lots of great work. Also tutorial links where you can see modeling sessions.
For Mudbox:
www.mudbox3d.com
Check out the gallery, there are Hulk and a Gambit images in there.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
Wow some of those are insane. I can imagine someday video games looking like that.
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my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
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JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA - in Poser 3D stuff
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i still BTW think this is a FANTASTIC piece of art
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