Discussion: City of Heroes' Future is Groovy
By
Alannon,
Posted on: 2008-02-15 18:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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just so we know who we are dealing with, are you counting last year's releases as failures? given that they were hugely popular with the community and rolled out without major bugs, due to the closed beta testing, im just seeing what your definition of failures is, and wether there really is any rational space to debate the point in.
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Alright, but remember, you asked for it....
Issue-9 ....had very limited actual Beta Involvement across the player base and even less actual testing on drop rates or any way to verify them(Pool-C's being the hardest to verify). Issue-11 was a cluster-bomb of channel-drama that saw the release of several bugged and untested IO sets since there was no direct market access to them--especially Pool-C's ...these 2 issues of oversight conspired together to make TFs/SF's the targets of "pool-C farmers" which just saw a huge stealth Nerf [u]despite the Devs' own promises that none of the existing content would be made more difficult to compensate for the implementation of I.O's.[u]
The entire issue could have been fixed issues ago by focusing feedback and testing on TF rewards for casual players so that everyone was getting rewards at a rate that satisfied demand and discouraged farming. ...when that failed to happen, Farming took over and solved the problem it's own way. Meanwhile the devs HAD the resources(All of Us!) to fix the CAUSE of the problem instead of just treating an ugly symptom of it. Instead what we got now is some very un-informed corporate doublespeak labeling RMT'ers as the scapegoats and a solution that will only further reward the farmers they claim they're trying to stifle.
When I say 4 years of failure, this is exactly what I mean... Simple feedback and pro-active effort on the part of the Guys at the top of the design decisions easily fixing the problems early on, but instead what we get are Half-Truths and stealth-nerfs designed to bypass the players entirely. ...followed by bad explanations and excuses later on. It's tiring. I understand it's how American business sometimes works, but I don't want to feel like the mid-level Devs I WANT to support so much, have to work in Dilbert's Office for a buncha "pointy-haired Bosses".
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what he said.
i hate you.
i agree with you all too damn often.
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just so we know who we are dealing with, are you counting last year's releases as failures? given that they were hugely popular with the community and rolled out without major bugs, due to the closed beta testing, im just seeing what your definition of failures is, and wether there really is any rational space to debate the point in.
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Alright, but remember, you asked for it....
Issue-9 ....had very limited actual Beta Involvement across the player base and even less actual testing on drop rates or any way to verify them(Pool-C's being the hardest to verify). Issue-11 was a cluster-bomb of channel-drama that saw the release of several bugged and untested IO sets since there was no direct market access to them--especially Pool-C's ...these 2 issues of oversight conspired together to make TFs/SF's the targets of "pool-C farmers" which just saw a huge stealth Nerf [u]despite the Devs' own promises that none of the existing content would be made more difficult to compensate for the implementation of I.O's.[u]
The entire issue could have been fixed issues ago by focusing feedback and testing on TF rewards for casual players so that everyone was getting rewards at a rate that satisfied demand and discouraged farming. ...when that failed to happen, Farming took over and solved the problem it's own way. Meanwhile the devs HAD the resources(All of Us!) to fix the CAUSE of the problem instead of just treating an ugly symptom of it. Instead what we got now is some very un-informed corporate doublespeak labeling RMT'ers as the scapegoats and a solution that will only further reward the farmers they claim they're trying to stifle.
When I say 4 years of failure, this is exactly what I mean... Simple feedback and pro-active effort on the part of the Guys at the top of the design decisions easily fixing the problems early on, but instead what we get are Half-Truths and stealth-nerfs designed to bypass player Scrutiny entirely. ...followed by bad explanations and excuses later on. It's tiring. I understand it's how American business sometimes works, but I don't want to feel like the mid-level Devs I WANT to support so much, have to work in Dilbert's Office for a buncha "pointy-haired Bosses".
[/ QUOTE ]ah so its basicly an extension of the tf [censored] fest, sorry not buying that. Find me a real failure that wasnt the fault of the community not giving enough valid feedback. some feedback from the commuity is good, but lets remember that during the issue 11 beta, the community itsself was chastened by the devs for having a "too high noise to information ratio" you severly overestimate how much valuable information has really come from the community. there are times we caught real problems, like the giant monster change a few issues ago, but in EVERY issue a minor issue has caused a major outpouring of hate from some segment of the population, its it a valid concern or is it a fit of pique related to a small but vocal group that wasnt done milking a specific exploit?
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just so we know who we are dealing with, are you counting last year's releases as failures? given that they were hugely popular with the community and rolled out without major bugs, due to the closed beta testing, im just seeing what your definition of failures is, and wether there really is any rational space to debate the point in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Alright, but remember, you asked for it....
Issue-9 ....had very limited actual Beta Involvement across the player base and even less actual testing on drop rates or any way to verify them(Pool-C's being the hardest to verify). Issue-11 was a cluster-bomb of channel-drama that saw the release of several bugged and untested IO sets since there was no direct market access to them--especially Pool-C's ...these 2 issues of oversight conspired together to make TFs/SF's the targets of "pool-C farmers" which just saw a huge stealth Nerf [u]despite the Devs' own promises that none of the existing content would be made more difficult to compensate for the implementation of I.O's.[u]
The entire issue could have been fixed issues ago by focusing feedback and testing on TF rewards for casual players so that everyone was getting rewards at a rate that satisfied demand and discouraged farming. ...when that failed to happen, Farming took over and solved the problem it's own way. Meanwhile the devs HAD the resources(All of Us!) to fix the CAUSE of the problem instead of just treating an ugly symptom of it. Instead what we got now is some very un-informed corporate doublespeak labeling RMT'ers as the scapegoats and a solution that will only further reward the farmers they claim they're trying to stifle.
When I say 4 years of failure, this is exactly what I mean... Simple feedback and pro-active effort on the part of the Guys at the top of the design decisions easily fixing the problems early on, but instead what we get are Half-Truths and stealth-nerfs designed to bypass the players entirely. ...followed by bad explanations and excuses later on. It's tiring. I understand it's how American business sometimes works, but I don't want to feel like the mid-level Devs I WANT to support so much, have to work in Dilbert's Office for a buncha "pointy-haired Bosses".
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what he said.
i hate you.
i agree with you all too damn often.
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Me too. I'm going to hold _Ilr_ up to _Ilr_'s standards for the devs 
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just so we know who we are dealing with, are you counting last year's releases as failures? given that they were hugely popular with the community and rolled out without major bugs, due to the closed beta testing, im just seeing what your definition of failures is, and wether there really is any rational space to debate the point in.
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Alright, but remember, you asked for it....
Issue-9 ....had very limited actual Beta Involvement across the player base and even less actual testing on drop rates or any way to verify them(Pool-C's being the hardest to verify).
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Sounds like a "I wasn't invited into the I9 Beta, so it obviously sucked" whine.
Because your claim doesn't match the facts.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
The future of City of Heroes is full of joy and wonder and joy and stars and joy.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
I have been playing since day one; April 28, 2004, to be exact. I never knew back then that the game would progress to what it is today, and I am very happy...and keep gettting amazed and surprized. Am I thrilled with everything that has been added? No, not everything, but 90% of the time I am. (The Greek chest details, for one. I don't PvP eiither.) My point is, there is something for everyone. I happen to like the announcements from the devs with little 'hints of things to come'. Only time tell if they do what they hint at. So far, so good AFAIAC. I am here to have fun. (I tried WoW for about a month and that was just not for me.) When the Devs present 'extra' packs for $9.99 I buy them if I like them. Everyone has different expectations/wants for this game. Some will be happy, some will be dissapoined, others even angry. I read these forums all the time and even try to help . I pay my $14.99+ per month (for more than one account) like everyone else. My point of all this is, if this game ever stops being fun, I will stop playing. I won't get angry, name-call, or flame anyone. I look forward to seeing what's around the bend in game content.When it becomes a dead end I will cease to fork over my money. We have come a long way from the 'gingerbread man' death pose, the cows that would 'moo' when shot, and Perez street-sweeping was the place to be. I might not love every aspect of this game, but the enjoyment I have had and the wonderful friends I have made can't be measured in dollars. I'd LOVE to see the level raised from 50 to 60. I'd LOVE to see new zones and mission maps. I'd LOVE to see new power sets. Perhaps those will come to pass....I, for one will stick around and see if they do. In the mean time, I intend to play and have fun with good friends.
�Many things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done.�
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Sounds like a "I wasn't invited into the I9 Beta, so it obviously sucked" whine.
Because your claim doesn't match the facts.
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I don't know about him but I was in Issue 9 Beta, and everything he said matches my memories to a 'T'.
I'm Peregrine Falcon, and I approve this message:
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Issue-9 ....had very limited actual Beta Involvement across the player base and even less actual testing on drop rates or any way to verify them(Pool-C's being the hardest to verify). Issue-11 was a cluster-bomb of channel-drama that saw the release of several bugged and untested IO sets since there was no direct market access to them--especially Pool-C's ...these 2 issues of oversight conspired together to make TFs/SF's the targets of "pool-C farmers" which just saw a huge stealth Nerf despite the Devs' own promises that none of the existing content would be made more difficult to compensate for the implementation of I.O's.
The entire issue could have been fixed issues ago by focusing feedback and testing on TF rewards for casual players so that everyone was getting rewards at a rate that satisfied demand and discouraged farming. ...when that failed to happen, Farming took over and solved the problem it's own way. Meanwhile the devs HAD the resources(All of Us!) to fix the CAUSE of the problem instead of just treating an ugly symptom of it. Instead what we got now is some very un-informed corporate doublespeak labeling RMT'ers as the scapegoats and a solution that will only further reward the farmers they claim they're trying to stifle.
When I say 4 years of failure, this is exactly what I mean... Simple feedback and pro-active effort on the part of the Guys at the top of the design decisions easily fixing the problems early on, but instead what we get are Half-Truths and stealth-nerfs designed to bypass player Scrutiny entirely. ...followed by bad explanations and excuses later on. It's tiring. I understand it's how American business sometimes works, but I don't want to feel like the mid-level Devs I WANT to support so much, have to work in Dilbert's Office for a buncha "pointy-haired Bosses".
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However, our highest priority is to ensure that the quality of all new content being brought to the game meets and exceeds your expectations.
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If I knew I was going to be addressing forum readers, I don't think I would make that one of my priorities. If Issue 12 introduced level 60 PvP raid content on the moon soloable by villains with epic archetypes that unlocked customizable power effects while dropping respecifications inventions that allowed you to change your power sets while simultaneously reversed the nipple nerf, forum readers would wonder why there was no big red ball in the first mission, why the evil moon aliens have cooler assault rifles than the players, and why there's no body scaler that allows you to select the number of nipples your body has, all while PLing themselves to 60 and running all the content in one weekend, and then wondering what's holding up Issue 13.
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This post made me giggle incessant;y, the phenomenon most commonly referred to as 'lawling'.
<QR>
Alright all you naysayers, let me translate the corporate jingoism for you:
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We're going to make major changes and issue at least two for-pay expansions over the next 18 months. Some of you will hate this, some of you will love this, and most of you will say, "Meh, whatevah!" and continue playing this great game which we love the profit from and you seem to love playing!
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That clear it up for ya'll? 
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AE Story Arc #536752: Torn Asunder
An army from far, far away has been driven from their homeland and landed on Earth. They desperately need a new home and they're liking the look of ours.
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Does that mean that all the xxx bugs will be fixed !
This game does NOT need a level cap increase !
PLEASE LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS !
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yay new content but groovy?
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i12 = more flashback content to the 1970's? I want some Superfly pimp costume options!
My Guide to the Hero-side Venomous badge
(622 Badges on my badge-guy)
number of lvl 50's: 24
number in the 40's: 3
[u]Galleryview[u]
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yay new content but groovy?
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Must mean some disco tilesets for bases? I guess this 'new level' means having to pay ten bucks for little patches with a few costume pieces and a couple of emotes. Are we going to start being charged for loading zones too? 'Mission finished and want to leave the map? That'll be ten bucks!' 'New bug fixes are ready. That'll be ten bucks for the patch!'
You know, it's funny.
The goal for press releases like this (at least with exposure to management that I have worked with in present and past companies) is generally intended to reassure or placate (no relation to Stalkers) a group of people growing nervous or uncertain about an unresolved issue or situation.
I'm curious what the motivation or stimulus was for this press release. With the Marvel Online MMO being outright canceled by Microsoft, I would think that, if anything, NCSoft would be feeling more secure in their niche in the online MMO industry.
What's ironic is that my personal experience with these kinds of "theres nothing to see here" "everything is great" "we are actively leveraging our diverse cross-platform talent to synergize across organizational boundries to drive value-added solutions for our customer" type statements only serve to make people a little more suspicious. Working level folks see corporate verbiage in notes like this and wonder what's behind the careful and content-poor reassurances they are getting.
Maybe I'm just jaded from my corporate experiences, but this note essentially says:
"Thanks for playing, we are REALLY working to improve the game. Trust us. It's going to be great."
A note a bit more forthright and with less corporate lingo might have generated more of the effect they were looking for. As it is, I'm on the fence and doing my best Mr. Spock eyebrow lift looking toward the future of CoH. Less because of statements like this and more because of what the developers and the men and women toiling behind the scenes of CoH have been able to pull off so far. I am cautiously optemistic.
Of course, that's just me. Perhaps I'm too much of an old stogy to see how Groovy this is 
Wow...
I wake up an see this lovely announcement & thread. LH I know you guys are very busy and no where near lazy folks lol, nor do I think you are incompetent at all. It's just that lately, much of the negativity directed at you guys is quite justified unfortunately (sad to see really 
). I used to be a involved in QA (Quality Assurance in case you didn't know what that was LH ) and the bottom line of that job is that "the proof of the pudding is NOT in its looks, but in it's taste"...
This last week and how you guys have dealt with it makes it seem like you aren't even making pudding, let alone if its good or not. Let me ask you a question I KNOW you will not answer. Based on your announcement, do YOU think that this last week has been a fine example of embracing what you said in your announcement, or in fact the complete opposite?
If you honest at all, you will KNOW that it was just the opposite. As time goes on in this game, you guys get more experienced and smarter which is great, but remember this LH, we also are getting more experienced & smarter as well. If something looks cool, we will say so with joy in our hearts, but if it is not, we will also absolutely say so. In fact I would bet some of our players who have played since forever might be even better game developers than some of you guys even...
So while its great that you guys have such high hopes for the future of the game (as do we), just know that we ARE watching you all closely and WILL call a spade a spade. If it is [censored], we will say so, and IF the above announcement is a valid one (we WILL be able to tell if it is not ya know LH) you will honor it...
Otherwise your player base (who ARE smart and experienced in the game) will react accordantly, and seeing as you guys just had a major business split with Cryptic, you don't need to be dropping the ball as like you did majorly this week cause your business can only take so many before it folds. Make this a learning experience Dev's and be better for it...
Otherwise despite what you "say" (and not proven this week with such a sweeping change) the future will not be bright, and you will only have yourselves to blame. So see those QFT's above? Let's avoid those shall we and not invite them as you guys have done recently. CoH is a great game, and like some other games (like SWG), it is not the players that can kill a game, it's the Dev's who think they know better than the player base who pays there salaries...
Think on that the next time you make a announcement and some call it a "fluff piece" so to speak. It may not be without merit sadly ...
T - CoH is a cool game; lets hope it stays that way and don't go the SWG route...
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does that mean you're gonna listen to the vocal minority of the player base and revert the TF changes?
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fix't, not everyone thinks this a bad thing. Alot of folks actually run TFs for the (lolz) content and not just to farm drops. Except for the greatly reduced ability to solo Positron (a TF which is overly harsh given what it pits you against and at the 10-15 level range) this is a good thing as it prevents TF sploiting.
ZOMG I can't run 7 Cap/Manti/whatever TFs at once, O noes.
I sincerely doubt that this was "working as intended." YOu can still run light, just not as light.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
This announcement reeks of "Tout va bien, madame la marquise"
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yay new content but groovy?
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i12 = more flashback content to the 1970's? I want some Superfly pimp costume options!
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i want a p1mp cane power set.
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You know, it's funny.
The goal for press releases like this (at least with exposure to management that I have worked with in present and past companies) is generally intended to reassure or placate (no relation to Stalkers) a group of people growing nervous or uncertain about an unresolved issue or situation.
I'm curious what the motivation or stimulus was for this press release.
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I think the motivation for the release was that interview with Geoff Heath they linked to. Because he said:
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We have some major plans for City of Heroes for the future, he said. Again, for this year were going to be doing regular updates, but theres a lot of exciting stuff going on around City of Heroes, not for this year in terms of new releases, but certainly in the next couple of years.
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I can see the CoX Exec Producer wanting to explain a bit about what that quote was addressing.
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does that mean you're gonna listen to the vocal minority of the player base and revert the TF changes?
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fix't, not everyone thinks this a bad thing. Alot of folks actually run TFs for the (lolz) content and not just to farm drops. Except for the greatly reduced ability to solo Positron (a TF which is overly harsh given what it pits you against and at the 10-15 level range) this is a good thing as it prevents TF sploiting.
ZOMG I can't run 7 Cap/Manti/whatever TFs at once, O noes.
I sincerely doubt that this was "working as intended." YOu can still run light, just not as light.
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I approve this message. How typical for the SF/TF [censored] to come in here. But since it has there is no need to revert those SF/TF changes just the need to reduce the starting number on several of them.
I am looking forward to the new content they have planned I may not like all of it but I'm sure others will.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.
I would like to see some of the following in city of heroes future
1. Shield Melee/defense for scrappers and tanks
2. Psychic blast/Psychic masters set for blasters.
3. Electric melee/def for tanks and scraps
4. Dual wield for blasters and defenders
5. New epic classes for heroes and villains.
6. A total rework of the regen defense set for scrappers IE. Make it so its on par with invuln and willpower, right now its sucks.
Thats some of the things I want to see and the jet pack costume piece.
I hope that this re-investment does take things to the next lvl. I for one don't expect to see the behind the sceens stuff, but would love to see some of this re-investment in advertising on major net works instead of just the invite a friend to join or come back. I will admit that with the server upgrades I noticed smoother play but to see my home server locked out durring 2xp wekend was hard to deal with. I for one would like to know why I think it was i7 or i8 we saw constuction going on at the warwalls on CoH and some around the arena on PO but still no word as to why. And now with the demise of Marvel Universe Online will CoX be working on intergrating into multi platforms i.e. x-box, play station to expand on the super hero MMO and bring in what could be a larger market for the franchise? Just my thoughts is all.
mmm... how to say something without committing to anything. Damn that's some good politician-speak!
I was worried there judging by the title I was thinking OMG They're going DISCO and retro 70's on us! 
Sweet merciful heaven... FIX THE BASES!!! Jeez-louise!
Make the rez circles accept attachable items again.
Make the SG-Logo-Display items accept *all* the logos.
Let us place the computer terminals and other goodies that are in the missions and/or the tech/science stores.
Give us pool tables, dart boards, pinball machines, and the jukebox like the Cryptic Lounge in Faultline has.
Give us the toolboxes and ammo boxes like we see in our salvage bins.
Pleeease!!
First off i say they need to fix allt he little bugs that have been poping up since the recent issues. like say super group colors messing with costumes when u change costumes while in super group mode. (this one is much older) but the walls and ceilings need to be reinforced or something to keep mobs from getting stuck in them (i wouldnt say thats too important but). next is mission objectives like glowies and people to kidnap/rescue being glitching to behind a walls when the maps are generated. Theres a few other things but i can't quite remember them atm.
On another note the COOL stuff id like to see would be definatly the shield power sets, id like to see a set of powers dedicated to teleporting attacks (like a semi-ranged attack u teleport right next to a foe delivering a quick suprise attack that could disorient, stun or knockback them from the shock) porbably an epic type class. more varied dances, MORE hair styles for guys the female characters have ALOT more hairstyles and many cool ones that would look good on males too, also some curley hairstyles for females would be good. a mastermind pool that summons like dragons or some mythical beasts would rock! customizing certain pet apperances like the robots. some shorts for males (like the long samurai styled shorts females have), a way to unlock hero/villain faction styled outfits! OH some sleeveless styled tops like the tsoo baggy tops or the wyvern chest parts. some more helmets would be cool too we havent gotten any new full helmet in a good long while and we still only have the one soft round half helmet (or atleast some more intricate patterns for that one helmet) ok thats all i can think to beg for atm lol
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just so we know who we are dealing with, are you counting last year's releases as failures? given that they were hugely popular with the community and rolled out without major bugs, due to the closed beta testing, im just seeing what your definition of failures is, and wether there really is any rational space to debate the point in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Alright, but remember, you asked for it....
Issue-9 ....had very limited actual Beta Involvement across the player base and even less actual testing on drop rates or any way to verify them(Pool-C's being the hardest to verify). Issue-11 was a cluster-bomb of channel-drama that saw the release of several bugged and untested IO sets since there was no direct market access to them--especially Pool-C's ...these 2 issues of oversight conspired together to make TFs/SF's the targets of "pool-C farmers" which just saw a huge stealth Nerf [u]despite the Devs' own promises that none of the existing content would be made more difficult to compensate for the implementation of I.O's.[u]
The entire issue could have been fixed issues ago by focusing feedback and testing on TF rewards for casual players so that everyone was getting rewards at a rate that satisfied demand and discouraged farming. ...when that failed to happen, Farming took over and solved the problem it's own way. Meanwhile the devs HAD the resources(All of Us!) to fix the CAUSE of the problem instead of just treating an ugly symptom of it. Instead what we got now is some very un-informed corporate doublespeak labeling RMT'ers as the scapegoats and a solution that will only further reward the farmers they claim they're trying to stifle.
When I say 4 years of failure, this is exactly what I mean... Simple feedback and pro-active effort on the part of the Guys at the top of the design decisions easily fixing the problems early on, but instead what we get are Half-Truths and stealth-nerfs designed to bypass player Scrutiny entirely. ...followed by bad explanations and excuses later on. It's tiring. I understand it's how American business sometimes works, but I don't want to feel like the mid-level Devs I WANT to support so much, have to work in Dilbert's Office for a buncha "pointy-haired Bosses".