Community Notification Discussion!
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2007-10-05 16:59 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
i think they gave ample explanation (and it is consistent with what I've seen at other sites)
bottom line is that they gave us an opportunity to act with maturity and social responsibility by allowing us to communicate without heavy handed modding but when we proved that we couldn't handle that opportunity... they had no choice but to change their approach... especially after, not one, but two public appeals/warnings for the community to 'try again' so as to prevent what everyone is complaining about now...
I fail to see the contradiction, I do see the applicable evolution
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
...and I have 7 kids, (from 10mos old to 13yrs old); it would be sooo easy just to run around and yell NO! at all of them... but they wouldn't learn anything without giving a reason behind the no.
I do give them a no (and a pass, if the action isn't out of bounds)... and I give them explanation on why not... so when they get out of line again, I can ask them if they know what they did wrong (which the older ones usually do) and when they get punished they know exactly why and for the most part... can accept that punishment
Only my younger ones lack the discipline needed to realize and accept their punishment and respond to such with whining in attempte to weasel out of that punishment.
Once it has been established that your child knows why they are being told no... it can be acceptable to reinforce it just by saying no... providing that at some point, you remind them again as to why
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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i hope people don't respond to their children the same way they respond (as addressesd) to threads and would consider it as 'constructive'.
The '/no without explanation/constructive dialogue' (with the supposition of being constructive) does not hold up in child or criminal psychology... it doesn't even hold up in animal training or the tech behind subliminal affirmation programming
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Now.. there is one thing different here. We're not dealing with children. We're dealing with grown adults.. unless of course your saying the people on the boards need to be treated like children.
While I am in the telling my kids "No" clause.. this usually comes after already having explained the "reasoning" as to why at least once and going "What did I say already?" followed by them asking again and me going "Didn't I just tell you no?" followed by a pouting face and me going "do you really think that will make me change my mind?" Sadly.. this happens alot with threads.
"hey how about this"
"No, don't like it"
"Well why not?"
"(person lists reasons why)"
"Well... your mean and my idea is perfect and you don't kno what your talking about!"
flame wars begin...
The problems aren't with "Yes" and "no" and "constuctive vs nonconstuctive" ... as I actually think far more "flames" develop in "constructive" conversations and in constuctive posts than from a simple "no". I think the real problem stems people taking things far too personally and resorting to childishness over other people disagreeing with them.
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Now.. there is one thing different here. We're not dealing with children. We're dealing with grown adults.. unless of course your saying the people on the boards need to be treated like children.
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Eh, not always. I know of some parents who let their children play, as young as 5 or 6 but those kidlets don't post. At least, not often or on purpose. 
There's also a few posters I know of who are 12 to 13. I believe we have folks on this forum ranging from 12 to 70-something. One course of action probably would not cover all possible scenarios. But, catering to the demographic most likely to misunderstand the guidelines by giving examples is likely the most efficient manner of getting the message to as many people as possible.
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Well, let me put it this way:
If PWNZ goes away, every poster will probably go on a rampage with the express purpose of getting themselves banned. Read: not pleasant for the mods.
I doubt the forum will be going away.
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In the real world thats akin to blackmail
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Well, let me put it this way:
If PWNZ goes away, every poster will probably go on a rampage with the express purpose of getting themselves banned. Read: not pleasant for the mods.
I doubt the forum will be going away.
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In the real world thats akin to blackmail
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I wasn't making a threat or something, that's just what would naturally happen.
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Well, let me put it this way:
If PWNZ goes away, every poster will probably go on a rampage with the express purpose of getting themselves banned. Read: not pleasant for the mods.
I doubt the forum will be going away.
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In the real world thats akin to blackmail
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Well, one thing I can agree with Cat about is that PWNZ is pointless and stupid...
I really wish it'd get moved from the PvP section and put into the for fun section and renamed "4Chan Wannabe [censored]'s" area...95% of the people posting there don't even PvP and people seem to associate it with PvPers...
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Well, let me put it this way:
If PWNZ goes away, every poster will probably go on a rampage with the express purpose of getting themselves banned. Read: not pleasant for the mods.
I doubt the forum will be going away.
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In the real world thats akin to blackmail
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I wasn't making a threat or something, that's just what would naturally happen.
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It'll be unpleasant for the mods for about a day. Then it'll be more peaceful and pleasant than it's been in a long time. Since about the time that horrible idea of a forum came into being.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Post deleted by Ex Libris
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Really what she's asking IMHO isn't stifling or draconian. It's asking for posters to be constructive in the forums used to gather bug reports, suggestions, feedback, etc. Even criticism can be constructive, so long as it's not flamey.
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'No' and '/unsigned' are every bit as constructive and useful as 'yes' and '/signed'. Yet one can lead to banning, and the other seemingly does not.
Something is very wrong here.
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Ya think?
There are now 4 sections where users can completely circumvent the rules:
i)PWNZ, a section created entirely to flaunt and circumvent the rules. Hey, I love that as a pvper I'm above the law on thee forums! But what if you aren't? Why aren't you allowed the break the rules?
ii)Forum Games. Again, a litany of fluff posts with very little content meant to pad post counts. All in good fun, no harm done but not really necessary. 
iii)The server forums: How many threads turn into +1, lol, qft, ec etc etc with very little content.
iv)Now a general swath through the forums where one cannot disagree but they can instead agree in curt terms.
I sincerly miss the days of Lighthouse's shining entrance into the forums where threads were locked, posts were edited and so on for content.
I had my first post Modded after close to three years of posting here recently. Not a happy occasion, but something I accept because I care about the rules.
Let's make sure those rules apply to everyone.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Really what she's asking IMHO isn't stifling or draconian. It's asking for posters to be constructive in the forums used to gather bug reports, suggestions, feedback, etc. Even criticism can be constructive, so long as it's not flamey.
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'No' and '/unsigned' are every bit as constructive and useful as 'yes' and '/signed'. Yet one can lead to banning, and the other seemingly does not.
Something is very wrong here.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure one-word replies either way are what's being targeted here. It's just that the "no's" are getting more attention because of JRanger's trolling.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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I sincerly miss the days of Lighthouse's shining entrance into the forums where threads were locked, posts were edited and so on for content.
I had my first post Modded after close to three years of posting here recently. Not a happy occasion, but something I accept because I care about the rules.
Let's make sure those rules apply to everyone.
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I agree completely.
Hopefully that was long enough.
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I had my first post Modded after close to three years of posting here recently. Not a happy occasion, but something I accept because I care about the rules.
Let's make sure those rules apply to everyone.
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Indeed. Rules are important. The problem is that up until now I think we have a record where the idea of impartial enforcement has fallen very short.
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[censored] you [censored].
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Hey, Grinnz ... you're not helping yourself, with this stuff.
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[censored] you [censored].
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Hey, Grinnz ... you're not helping yourself, with this stuff.
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I don't need to. If I get banned from the forums because of people who can't take a joke, I'll be banned from the forums where people who can't take a joke are. Oh well.
*shrug* Your funeral.
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Yet if you're not breaking the rules, you've got nothing to worry about
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Yeah, tell that to jranger who didn't break any rules.
These new "/jranger is bannable" rules were invented to give them a reason to have him banned.
Search his posts. He doesn't insult, he doesn't flame he simply replies "no" to a lot of bad ideas. There was NOTHING in the rules stateing he couldn't do that.
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No, he replied "no" to ALL the ideas. I don't see how anyone can argue that he was being anything but a troll.
Seriously, when did half of this forum have lobotomies?
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Since when replying No to something meant anything else than disgreeing with the OP? What is wrong with that? And what is wrong with disagreeing with EVERY darn suggestions that were posted? I see no problem with that. He posted his own disagreement and never were any of you disallowed to simply overlook his reply and move along. How could he harm anyone?
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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Oh come on. At least toss a
"because I said so" in there.
When my daughter does this she gets:
No
why not?
Because I'm cooking dinner. You can see that.
but I want one! *now whining*
I might have given you one after dinner but you just lost that as well. Any other questions?
...no...
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Fine then. There you go. From now on all my negative replies on the forum will only be "No because i said so". It's longer to type than just no but its still acceptable.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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Oh come on. At least toss a
"because I said so" in there.
When my daughter does this she gets:
No
why not?
Because I'm cooking dinner. You can see that.
but I want one! *now whining*
I might have given you one after dinner but you just lost that as well. Any other questions?
...no...
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Fine then. There you go. From now on all my negative replies on the forum will only be "No because i said so". It's longer to type than just no but its still acceptable.
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I'm the mommy, that's why.
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Yet if you're not breaking the rules, you've got nothing to worry about
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Yeah, tell that to jranger who didn't break any rules.
These new "/jranger is bannable" rules were invented to give them a reason to have him banned.
Search his posts. He doesn't insult, he doesn't flame he simply replies "no" to a lot of bad ideas. There was NOTHING in the rules stateing he couldn't do that.
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No, he replied "no" to ALL the ideas. I don't see how anyone can argue that he was being anything but a troll.
Seriously, when did half of this forum have lobotomies?
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Since when replying No to something meant anything else than disgreeing with the OP? What is wrong with that? And what is wrong with disagreeing with EVERY darn suggestions that were posted? I see no problem with that. He posted his own disagreement and never were any of you disallowed to simply overlook his reply and move along. How could he harm anyone?
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What's wrong with it is he was very OBVIOUSLY doing it to troll. And I don't believe for one second that you don't know that yourself. JRanger was a troll. Period. He did it because it annoyed people, and if you followed his post history, there is absolutely NO way you can deny that. He got off on the attention he got from it, and it finally came back to bite him in the butt. He's not a martyr or a victim. He was a useless nuisance.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Yet if you're not breaking the rules, you've got nothing to worry about
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Yeah, tell that to jranger who didn't break any rules.
These new "/jranger is bannable" rules were invented to give them a reason to have him banned.
Search his posts. He doesn't insult, he doesn't flame he simply replies "no" to a lot of bad ideas. There was NOTHING in the rules stateing he couldn't do that.
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No, he replied "no" to ALL the ideas. I don't see how anyone can argue that he was being anything but a troll.
Seriously, when did half of this forum have lobotomies?
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Since when replying No to something meant anything else than disgreeing with the OP? What is wrong with that? And what is wrong with disagreeing with EVERY darn suggestions that were posted? I see no problem with that. He posted his own disagreement and never were any of you disallowed to simply overlook his reply and move along. How could he harm anyone?
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What's wrong with it is he was very OBVIOUSLY doing it to troll. And I don't believe for one second that you don't know that yourself. JRanger was a troll. Period. He did it because it annoyed people, and if you followed his post history, there is absolutely NO way you can deny that. He got off on the attention he got from it, and it finally came back to bite him in the butt. He's not a martyr or a victim. He was a useless nuisance.
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Sorry you saw his posts that way. In my opinion, which is just as valid as yours, he was not doing it to troll.
This isn't a matter of opinion. It's fact. And he made no effort to hide it. If you honestly can't see that, it's pretty sad.
Edit: I mean, for frack's sake, at the end, his avatar was a little cartoon character with the word "NO!" clearly mocking his infamy...
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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This isn't a matter of opinion. It's fact. And he made no effort to hide it. If you honestly can't see that, it's pretty sad.
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Please, prove to me that he was trolling in every thread he replied to with "no". That's the only way I will be convinced it's a matter of fact.
The fact that he replied to every single gorram suggestion with "no" and did his best to be the first reply in there is proof in itself. He got more persistent at it the more people bugged him about it. How can you possibly believe that was anything BUT an active effort to get a rise out of people?
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Oh come on. At least toss a
"because I said so" in there.
When my daughter does this she gets:
No
why not?
Because I'm cooking dinner. You can see that.
but I want one! *now whining*
I might have given you one after dinner but you just lost that as well. Any other questions?
...no...
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see for some odd reason my daughter hasn't gotten to that "Why not" phase yet. it's
"No"
*collapse into a heap of over dramatic tears" BUT I WANT ONE!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
She skips the whole asking why step and goes right to meltdown. Ah gotta love 4yr olds...
@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
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[color=red]Official Beer Wench of PWNZ[/color] Arc 452196 When Madness Reigns over Reason. Play it and PM me your constructive criticism on what I can tweak before Oct 20th. <3 U all