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In fact, several of us have predicted that if someone was going to dedicate themselves to getting the badge with aid other during play, that they would finally get it sometime around 2040. This upsets those classes without heals. On the flip side those with healing powers that are doing it "by the intent" would get the badge sometime between 2-5 years/365 days a year/around 4+ hours/day.
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I fogot the ONE very, very big difference between myself and those more favorable of a change;
I dont think that NON-HEALERS SHOULD be able to get the epic heal badge via "normal" game play! Not even extraordinary play! <---- Example
Well, maybe by 2040! You stated in your first post that the badge could be obtained by "HEALERS" in 2-5 years, 365, 4 hours a day? WOW there is QUITE a difference between 2 and 5 years wouldnt you say? The math would suggest if the worse case is two years at the marks you state then 5 years would be, oh I dunno, maybe "normal" game play? Maybe? For an Epic? And something Posi stated before as you said? Sounds JUST RIGHT to me! Maybe its because some people have non-likely characters that they "WANT" to get these badges on and are just mad that they simply wont?
My badger will NEVER have the epic heal badges or epic held badges? Why? Because he is a BRUTE! Thats why. And why is that not acceptable to people? You want them on a character that isnt a healer for instance? Well, farm it I guess or stick withit till 2040. Im suppose to support lowering an epic badge so some tank can get the epic heal badge? Um, no.
Five years..... If THAT is the standard and you think thats what Posi stated at one time? Well then YAY! 5 years it is. Sounds about right for an EPIC badge to me! And whats wrong with that?
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Someone posted a very detailed analysis of this once, laying out all assumptions and explaining their calculations. They estimated that a dedicated empathy defender could earn Empath in as little as TWENTY-FIVE YEARS.
Unless I see some details and explanation, I regard the quoted time of 2-5 years as a load of bull.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I dont think that NON-HEALERS SHOULD be able to get the epic heal badge via "normal" game play! Not even extraordinary play! <---- Example
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Then where is my epic 100,000,000,000 damage dealt badge? The one that favors blasters over healers? 
The healing badges in general were a bad idea. Anyone can get mezzed or payback debt or acquire influence or sidekick someone or take damage as a part of nornmal game play. Every. Single. Character. But for the healing badges, you must have one power out of a very specific and limited group. And those characters who are not defenders or controllers must take Aid Other, which is a very very poor substitute for the AoE no-limit healing spam that defenders and trollers get.
In fact, the vast difference between the potential healing power of Radiant Aura vs. Aid Other (both fully slotted) makes the difference between defender and blaster damage pale into insignificance. Even seen a healer in a Hami Raid?
And in any event... not even HEALERS will ever be able to get the epic healing badge through normal game play.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
The problem is that level of heals are next to impossible to achieve even in a 4 hour day. Those numbers would require you to heal 550,000 hitpoints a day each day for 5 years. The numbers used in the calculations were extremely ideal.
This is extremely unlikely. I will love the city vault showing up so people can find out how much the average healer heals for. On my best day I think my level 50 empath healed for about 90,000 hitpoints. At that rate I will have to wait at least 25 years, if not longer.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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In fact, several of us have predicted that if someone was going to dedicate themselves to getting the badge with aid other during play, that they would finally get it sometime around 2040. This upsets those classes without heals. On the flip side those with healing powers that are doing it "by the intent" would get the badge sometime between 2-5 years/365 days a year/around 4+ hours/day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I fogot the ONE very, very big difference between myself and those more favorable of a change;
I dont think that NON-HEALERS SHOULD be able to get the epic heal badge via "normal" game play! Not even extraordinary play! <---- Example
Well, maybe by 2040! You stated in your first post that the badge could be obtained by "HEALERS" in 2-5 years, 365, 4 hours a day? WOW there is QUITE a difference between 2 and 5 years wouldnt you say? The math would suggest if the worse case is two years at the marks you state then 5 years would be, oh I dunno, maybe "normal" game play? Maybe? For an Epic? And something Posi stated before as you said? Sounds JUST RIGHT to me! Maybe its because some people have non-likely characters that they "WANT" to get these badges on and are just mad that they simply wont?
My badger will NEVER have the epic heal badges or epic held badges? Why? Because he is a BRUTE! Thats why. And why is that not acceptable to people? You want them on a character that isnt a healer for instance? Well, farm it I guess or stick withit till 2040. Im suppose to support lowering an epic badge so some tank can get the epic heal badge? Um, no.
Five years..... If THAT is the standard and you think thats what Posi stated at one time? Well then YAY! 5 years it is. Sounds about right for an EPIC badge to me! And whats wrong with that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Someone posted a very detailed analysis of this once, laying out all assumptions and explaining their calculations. They estimated that a dedicated empathy defender could earn Empath in as little as TWENTY-FIVE YEARS.
Unless I see some details and explanation, I regard the quoted time of 2-5 years as a load of bull.
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I assume (not knowing the argument used for the numbers, but just guessing) that the 2-5 years at 4 hours a day is if the healing is FARMED for four hours a day. Which is to say, set up so each heal gives as much credit as it possibly can, hits a large number of targets, and hit often. The 25 year one, however, sounds more reasonable for an average team situation, where you'd only heal a few times during a mission (healing as needed), and each heal only counts for whatever damage has been taken.
If someone were TRYING to get this badge, the answer would probably fall somewhere inbetween the two. However, it can be said for certain that no one will ever possibly accidentally get this badge. It NEEDS to be worked towards.
Personally, I don't think much will get done by arguing whether or not the badges are working as the devs intended. Lots of things that were working as intended have been changed since, because they were found to be unfair or unfun. Working as intended doesn't mean that it's RIGHT. Are the badges fun? Are the badges worth the effort? Would changing the badges make more people happy than it makes unhappy? Would changing the badges make the badges themselves better? THESE are the most important questions, IMO.
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I assume (not knowing the argument used for the numbers, but just guessing) that the 2-5 years at 4 hours a day is if the healing is FARMED for four hours a day. Which is to say, set up so each heal gives as much credit as it possibly can, hits a large number of targets, and hit often.
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Those were the exact conditions of the numbers chosen. Same with Aid Other for the 27 years. I would guess that the true numbers are five times the amount, if not 6-7.
Edit:
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THESE are the most important questions, IMO.
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Are the badges fun?
No. I don't think anyone considers them fun, well except some to make fun of other people.
Are the badges worth the effort?
No. I think this is near universal.
Would changing the badges make more people happy than it makes unhappy?
Yes, from all the forum posts and flamewars, more people would be happy than the unhappy ones.
Would changing the badges make the badges themselves better?
From a personal standpoint, yes. A lot of people share this opinion, but some do not.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Empath.
Heal for 100,000 points per day, 365 days per year non-stop...and after 27+ years, you'll be awarded the Empath badge.
I highly doubt that Empath could be earned in two to five years.
I think I said that very recently.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I dont think that NON-HEALERS SHOULD be able to get the epic heal badge via "normal" game play! Not even extraordinary play! <---- Example
[/ QUOTE ]
Then where is my epic 100,000,000,000 damage dealt badge? The one that favors blasters over healers?
The healing badges in general were a bad idea. Anyone can get mezzed or payback debt or acquire influence or sidekick someone or take damage as a part of nornmal game play. Every. Single. Character. But for the healing badges, you must have one power out of a very specific and limited group. And those characters who are not defenders or controllers must take Aid Other, which is a very very poor substitute for the AoE no-limit healing spam that defenders and trollers get.
In fact, the vast difference between the potential healing power of Radiant Aura vs. Aid Other (both fully slotted) makes the difference between defender and blaster damage pale into insignificance. Even seen a healer in a Hami Raid?
And in any event... not even HEALERS will ever be able to get the epic healing badge through normal game play.
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I did say they should "ADD" badges.... Just sayin'
And I am working off the information in the OP... sorry if thats incorrect. Not MY info.
QR
Serious reply (I'm looking at you Snow Globe). I think they should just retire the epic badges. If you have one, you have it, if you don't you never will.
To be honest, reading this forum makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. Badges are just a graphic, a title and making a number counter go up by one. We need to get you folks focused on something else.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I did say they should "ADD" badges.... Just sayin'
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which would leave Empath still unobtainable.
Say you order steak. The waiter brings you salad, it's good, but you are looking forward to your steak. Next, you get soup, also good, but the steak will be better. Now he brings you fries. You ask what happened to your steak, he says he added more food. You ask again, he adds an order of onion rings. and then yet another appetizer, and another after that. "ADD" as many as you want, doesn't change that fact that you're waiting on Empath.
<QR>
Just curious. I see the empath badge to be the most used example.... Because its the most extreme example i would bet. I mean, what better way to support a general point. And, allow me to clarify; I dont, wont and never will even attempt to work for the empath badge. Nope. So I shouldnt comment on THAT specific badge set. I apologize for even allowing myself into that discussion.
I will, instead stick to what I am going to eventually get.... Everything BUT empath and the held badges. Aside from those two I see NO ISSUE with the levels to which these badges are set. Not that I see issues with the healing or held sets but simply that I have thought little of them at all.
I am hoping to eventually earn the influence/infamy and damage badge set and do not see these as set to levels that would constitue "broken". I would suspect that the damage will take far longer then the infamy set but I am not going to say that is bad at all.
My opinion is that the EPIC badges "should" represent an extreme commitment to achive. 4-5 years. Thats my opinion. And so far as I can tell all the badge sets I have and will work towards should fit into that time frame according to MY play schedule or predicted play schedule. IF I dont get one or the other its because Spore finally came out and I am making a race of super spit balls.
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I did say they should "ADD" badges.... Just sayin'
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which would leave Empath still unobtainable.
Say you order steak. The waiter brings you salad, it's good, but you are looking forward to your steak. Next, you get soup, also good, but the steak will be better. Now he brings you fries. You ask what happened to your steak, he says he added more food. You ask again, he adds an order of onion rings. and then yet another appetizer, and another after that. "ADD" as many as you want, doesn't change that fact that you're waiting on Empath.
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You may be waiting on the steak and the really fat guys with high metabolisms may actually sit through all of the fixins before hand and eventually eat that steak while YOU get to enjoy those same fixins and be happy with that as you walk home steakless but without the added cholesterol. People should learn to enjoy what they DO eat rather then have eyes too big for their stomach while those fat guys should not be punished because some thin guy cant clean his plates to get to the next one....
Did I say I hate anaologies?
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But, thats why I hate anaolgies.
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With all due respect, if you have a problem with that analogy, feel free to refute its logic or reasons. If you find yourself in a discussion and unable to say what is wrong with your opponent's arguements other than "you hate it",, perhaps it is time to reexamine one's conviction? I mean, after all, thats what being open minded is about right?
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Its just a matter of perspective and, in THIS situation, at least the side I agree with is being supported and validated by the Devs, <ahem> the peoples whos opinion actually matters for all intents and purposes.
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Actually changing badge requirements has been validated by the devs, see : Reformed, Zoo Keeper.
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
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Actually changing badge requirements has been validated by the devs, see : Reformed, Zoo Keeper.
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See also: Illusionist, Isolator, several explore badge markers, Slayer, Silver Bullet, the Fusion Generator group badge, Disruptor, Reinforcement, Pirate, Forward Observer, Toothbreaker, Cap Buster.
There are probably others I've missed, but I assume the point is made. Not all of these were made easier, some requirements were increased.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, reading this forum makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. Badges are just a graphic, a title and making a number counter go up by one. We need to get you folks focused on something else.
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Some people enjoy getting badges. Why would you want to take that away from people?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Interesting discussion so far, and I'd like to add in my 2 cents worth based on the play of my dedicated badger, a 50 Peacebringer.
Mez: easily afk-farmable, but really impossible to attain during the course of normal play, even for a highly mezzable human/nova build PB. If the devs really don't want players afk-farming, the 4th, 5th, and 6th badges should probably be dropped somewhat. That said, it's not a huge deal for this category to remain as-is.
Debt: Perfectly positioned, IMO. If anything, the 5th and 6th could possibly even have the requirements tweaked slightly to the higher side.
Mentoring: Again, perfectly positioned badges. Like the debt badges the 5th and 6th could possibly be tweaked to the upside.
Healing: This one's challenging, because depending on your build the first 3-4 will be either easily attainable, or extremely difficult after the first. In my case (remember, 50 PB, I only have a single target heal) it took me a long time to even get the first badge, and I'm only about halfway to the second. Of course, dedicated empaths, kins, darks, etc. can get the first 3-4 without breaking a sweat. Given this dichotomy, I'd probably suggest keeping the first 3 as-is, and reducing substantially the 4th, 5th and 6th. This one, I acknowledge, will be the hardest for the players and devs to reach any consensus on. Nigh impossible even.
Damage: Requirement are just plain too high. Full stop. This epic badge set needs a serious requirement reduction for the last three.
Influence/ Infamy: The 5th and 6th badges are just way to high. Only now is my badger approaching the 4th badge. Mind you, she played most of the last couple years in SG mode seriously hindering badge progress here. I'd either like to see prestige earnings count towards this badge, or have the 5th and 6th ones reduced substantially.
That's my feedback based on significant badging (543 badges, and counting) on a character I play extremely often for close to three years now.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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You may be waiting on the steak and the really fat guys with high metabolisms may actually sit through all of the fixins before hand and eventually eat that steak while YOU get to enjoy those same fixins and be happy with that as you walk home steakless but without the added cholesterol. People should learn to enjoy what they DO eat rather then have eyes too big for their stomach while those fat guys should not be punished because some thin guy cant clean his plates to get to the next one....
Did I say I hate anaologies?
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You're expanding the analogy without actually listening to what it's saying.
Rationalize all you want how some people might not, or should not have Empath. That doesn't change the fact that people are here complaining that they *can't* have Empath.
And your suggestion is... what? Give them something else. How does offering any other badge change that fact that people are here complaining about Empath?
You're not suggesting a solution by adding more badges, you're ... OH! Look! Shiney things....
<QR>
I'd also like to add, I don't like the idea of adding dedicated badges for other abilities, such as snipe, etc.
Every character has the ability to heal by using the Healing pool powers. However, unless the devs created, for example, a Sniper power pool, a sniper epic badge should NOT be created.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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To be honest, reading this forum makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. Badges are just a graphic, a title and making a number counter go up by one. We need to get you folks focused on something else.
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Phat Loot in this game is just a bunch of ones and zeros, maybe you should follow your own advice first?
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
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To be honest, reading this forum makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. Badges are just a graphic, a title and making a number counter go up by one. We need to get you folks focused on something else.
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Some people enjoy getting badges. Why would you want to take that away from people?
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I laughed at the original quote. How you can compare a video game hobby, to an addiction such as meth or smoking? That is beyond my comprehension.
Life gives you lemons, bro.
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To be honest, reading this forum makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. Badges are just a graphic, a title and making a number counter go up by one. We need to get you folks focused on something else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some people enjoy getting badges. Why would you want to take that away from people?
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I wouldn't. I didn't say, "Get rid of badges". I said get rid of the epic badges. Seriously, the level of obsession about these things that are supposed to be obtainable only infrequently is scary. Think about it. If you guys enjoyed the epic badges, then what's the point of this topic?
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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To be honest, reading this forum makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. Badges are just a graphic, a title and making a number counter go up by one. We need to get you folks focused on something else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some people enjoy getting badges. Why would you want to take that away from people?
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I laughed at the original quote. [u]How you can compare a video game hobby, to an addiction such as meth or smoking?[u] That is beyond my comprehension.
Life gives you lemons, bro.
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I didn't. Please read more carefully. I said it makes me believe the people who talk about video game addiction. YOU mentioned chemical dependency. And you can be addicted to many things that are not chemical based. There ARE gambling addicts for example.
Now, back to the point, I think the epic badges were a bad idea in the first place. I don't think developers should even encourage people into even semi-destructive behavior. And while the whole game is a time-waster, it's important to keep some perspective.
How much time are you willing to devote to getting this bit of graphic that will someday be erased when the servers are shut-down for good?
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You may be waiting on the steak and the really fat guys with high metabolisms may actually sit through all of the fixins before hand and eventually eat that steak while YOU get to enjoy those same fixins and be happy with that as you walk home steakless but without the added cholesterol. People should learn to enjoy what they DO eat rather then have eyes too big for their stomach while those fat guys should not be punished because some thin guy cant clean his plates to get to the next one....
Did I say I hate anaologies?
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You're expanding the analogy without actually listening to what it's saying.
Rationalize all you want how some people might not, or should not have Empath. That doesn't change the fact that people are here complaining that they *can't* have Empath.
And your suggestion is... what? Give them something else. How does offering any other badge change that fact that people are here complaining about Empath?
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Im stating..... That people CANT and should not always expect to have everything they want. Read the meaning of my post also. Again, I cant speak for empath but thats not the sole focus of this thread is it? And WHY on earth can we not have badges that only some very dedicated (obsessed maybe) people will get. Ahem, EPIC. Seriously, your guilty of the same you accuse me of. YES adding badges can and should absolutely give people asking for something, well something and thats better then nothing. So.... SOME people wont get some of these Epic badges!!! OMG Holy Cow say it isnt so!!! And people (not you mad, well not that I have read anyway) call me selfish because I want them to leave the badges alone? Wow.
Again, empath, no comment. I cant comment on that. The rest..... FINE BY ME. And why not? *IF* they are obtainable via normal but long term (5 year or so) play OR HEAVY shorter term play. Well, that to me is Epic and acceptable. Add in badges, YES to give people who maybe wont get the top teirs something to shoot for. Want the Leader badge but dont want to do what it takes to get it... WHos problem is that?
Empath = I cant comment because I am not working towards that and I havent done the math.
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You're not suggesting a solution by adding more badges, you're ... OH! Look! Shiney things....
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No.... Im actually NOT offering a solution at all. Im happy with how they are set now so why would I be in need of offering a solution to something that I dont feel is broke? Again, your not getting the intent of my analogy either. And yeah, I still hate them.
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Im stating..... That people CANT and should not always expect to have everything they want.
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You're saying the Devs bothered to code this Empath badge into the game so that we could... what? Look at it on a badge list instead of getting it?
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One of the interviews that CIT did with Positron and CuppaJo around the beginning of Issue 5 had Positron saying that he expected Empath only to be earned after 5 years (which after some math, and Enhancement Diversification fails to be possible).
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In fact, several of us have predicted that if someone was going to dedicate themselves to getting the badge with aid other during play, that they would finally get it sometime around 2040. This upsets those classes without heals. On the flip side those with healing powers that are doing it "by the intent" would get the badge sometime between 2-5 years/365 days a year/around 4+ hours/day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I fogot the ONE very, very big difference between myself and those more favorable of a change;
I dont think that NON-HEALERS SHOULD be able to get the epic heal badge via "normal" game play! Not even extraordinary play! <---- Example
Well, maybe by 2040! You stated in your first post that the badge could be obtained by "HEALERS" in 2-5 years, 365, 4 hours a day? WOW there is QUITE a difference between 2 and 5 years wouldnt you say? The math would suggest if the worse case is two years at the marks you state then 5 years would be, oh I dunno, maybe "normal" game play? Maybe? For an Epic? And something Posi stated before as you said? Sounds JUST RIGHT to me! Maybe its because some people have non-likely characters that they "WANT" to get these badges on and are just mad that they simply wont?
My badger will NEVER have the epic heal badges or epic held badges? Why? Because he is a BRUTE! Thats why. And why is that not acceptable to people? You want them on a character that isnt a healer for instance? Well, farm it I guess or stick withit till 2040. Im suppose to support lowering an epic badge so some tank can get the epic heal badge? Um, no.
Five years..... If THAT is the standard and you think thats what Posi stated at one time? Well then YAY! 5 years it is. Sounds about right for an EPIC badge to me! And whats wrong with that?