Just 1 more reason not to take Phase Shift!
By
Amarsir,
Posted on: 2007-05-02 22:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Modified Accuracy Set Bonuses -- They now modify the Accuracy of all of a players powers, instead of modifying the players base To Hit value.
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Hmm, that doesn't sound like a nerf, that sounds a lot more like DOING WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO DO.
"accuracy" bonus should affect "accuracy" not anything else, sorry.
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Sorry, but turning a tohit buff, regardless of what it's called, into an accuracy buff is a nerf, plain and simple. There are many places in the game where tohit buffs are referred to as accuracy buffs. This is no way changes what they truly are and how they work. And if they were actually supposed to be accuracy buffs, not tohit buffs, why were the values of the tohit buffs cut in half while on test? I guess that wasn't a nerf either, huh?
Tohit buff = useful. Accuracy buffs = useless. Turning a power from useful to useless is a nerf, no matter how you decide to word it.
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Tanks and Scrappers can get Focused Accuracy at level 41, Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors can get Tactics if they can squeeze it into their builds, and the rest get NOTHING.
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Anyone can pick up tactics, 3 slotted with to-hit buffs, it does help pretty much any AT, though certainly defenders get the biggest buff for it.
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Yes, any AT can take tactics, but the values are so small for anyone but Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors, that even 3 slotted the buff is negligible, and not worth the underpowered prerequisite (either Maneuvers or Assault), heavy end cost, and slots.
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I guess Scirocco "evolved" as well.
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As somebody else already said, it is probably a bug, since it doesnt happen consitently. /bug is your friend.
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Perhaps, I guess only time will tell. But don't be surprised if it's not.
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Illusion has Specral Terror, one of the best AoE controls in the game. it can fear a boss, allowing you to apply that hold as you please.
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I agree, ST is a great power. But it doesn't establish containment, is immovable (and can no longer be TPd since that nerf), and won't stop them from attacking if attacked first. And unlike dark fears, there is no inherent tohit debuff either. Works well on a large team with aggro control, but is not much more than a quick breather on a small team or solo.
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it also has decieve, which does not do direct damage, but it certainly does damage.
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For which you get little to no XP for, and also won't establish containment. Is it effective, of course. Does it make up for a lack of a reliable AOE containment power and nerfed PA? Nope.
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If that were the case it should have been noted in the Known Issues section. Yes yes, I know, they're only human, blah blah blah, notes get missed, blah blah blah, the janitor accidentally threw out the latest additions, blah blah blah, someones dog ate the new list, blah blah blah...
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Nothing I say here is going to change your mind, since you seem to think that it is impossible for a human to make a mistake.
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I dunno about you, but if part of my job was to ensure that patch notes and known issue lists were kept accurate and up to date, and I used the "I'm only human" excuse every time some very important item was "accidentally" left out, I would have been fired long ago. The "human" excuse is just old and tired at this point.
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I guess Scirocco "evolved" as well.
Like I said, open the door for one foe to hit that which is labeled "indestructible", then it's only a matter of time before it trickles down to every common boss.
The truly sad part is this really nerfs the hell outta the Illusion set. With no AOE immobilize or sleep they are incapable of reliably establishing containment, and have only *2*, yes TWO, attack powers in the whole set that do damage. With no reliable AOE control abilities (save the "10 seconds every 3 minutes" AOE hold), PA is your only means of protecting yourself from aggro. And hell, you can't even have them out all the time, and the damage they do is minimal as most of it heals back.
This pretty much makes Illusion a complete waste of a team spot on the STF, and any future endeavors where foes have "evolved" to be able to hit that which is "indestructible". And probably the saddest part of all is that while these upgraded foes can attack and destroy them, no one on the team, including their creator, can buff or heal them.
Wow... simply WOW...
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Wow... simply WOW... Is right. Are you serious about that BS?
Illusion is widely recognized as the strongest controller primary against hard targets, because of its emphasis on distraction instead of hard mezzes. A complete waste of a slot on a STF? The best possible team for the STF is 8 Ill/Rads. Stop treating an obvious bug that only occurred once like the end of the world. (Assuming of course, Scirocco actually did that damage. PA does, and always did, take falling damage. I'm assuming that you didn't go up to the flight cap and drop them, right?)
As for Hami, what exactly can any other controller do to him and his Mitos that Ill/* can't? Well? If anything, Ill/* still has an advantage because it has more pets to act as a distraction than any other controller.
You know, I have to laugh at this (and the rest) of your posts. _If_ the devs did invent an intelligent and challenging enemy that didn't "cheat" or present a challenge by having powers and abilities that far exceeded what a PC could do then people, perhaps you and perhaps not, would be posting very similar complaints.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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For which you get little to no XP for, and also won't establish containment. Is it effective, of course. Does it make up for a lack of a reliable AOE containment power and nerfed PA? Nope.
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Predictable, I knew you'd pull that card. Check this out.
If you don't want to read the entire guide (which is an excellent read for anyone with either a mind or illusion controller) I'll give you the important parts
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Under normal circumstances, everybody who damages a mob "takes" a share of that mob's experience yeild (X), proportional to the damage they do (D). That means if you and an unteamed stranger each do half the damage to a mob, and it's defeated, you each get half the experience value. Earned experience (Xp) is equal to the mobs's experience value times the fraction of damage you do to it.
Xp = DX
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HOW EXPERIENCE OVER TIME WORKS GENERALLY
Where:
F = ("Fight") time each spawn takes to fully defeat
S = ("Search") time it takes after each fight to find the next fight
T = ("Time") fight plus search time = F+S
Experience per time (Xppt) is equal to experience value of the spawn (X) dividied by total time (T). Total time is a function of how long it normally takes to defeat a spawn (F) plus time between fights (S):
Xppt = X/T = X/(F+S)
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basic stuff, now lets throw confuse into the equation
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HOW CONFUSION EXPERIENCE WORKS
Where:
Cmd = fraction of spawn's damage done by confused mobs (where 1=100%) = 1-D
The experience value of mobs damaged by other confused mobs (Cx) is equal to the mob's base experience value times the fraction of the mob's damage once you EXCLUDE three quarters of the damage confused mobs did (Cmd) from the mob's base damage.
Cx = DX / (D + (Cmd/4)) = 4DX / (3D + 1)
HOW CONFUSION FIGHT DURATION WORKS
Fight durations depend directly on how much damage has to be dealt to finish the enemy. When they've been damaged by other, confused mobs, the amount of time fights last (Cf) is the normal fight time (F) times the fraction of the damage you yourself have to do (D).
Cf = time a spawn takes to defeat, if it's been damaged by confused mobs = FD.
***Note: F here is the duration of a NORMAL fight, that is, without confusion in play.
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Time it takes after each fight to find the next fight is equal to three times the fraction of the spawn's damage done by you, times the time each spawn takes to fully defeat (normally).
If you start the next fight faster than that, your XPS is better with confuse than without. If you find them slower, experience over time gets worse.
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now the important part
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In my experience, groups with any real interest in decent XP over time will EASILY be doing better than the S=3DF rule above. If the group can't manage S=3DF on the average, it's probably because they're doing something IN PREFERENCE to decent XP/time.
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I took out a lot of stuff there, I suggest you check it out to see the math and everything else.
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As for the to-hit buff being not worth it on anything but controllers/defenders/corruptors
look at the numbers
base numbers at lvl 50
blaster, tanker, scrapper, brute, stalker 7%
khledians 9%
controllers, corruptors 10%
defender 12.5%
Dominators, masterminds 7.5%
not a huge spread there. yeah, 5% can make a difference, but its hardly neglegible.
Also, almost every blaster gets Aim, if you have devices secondary, you also get Targetting drone, 2 more self tohit buffs
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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Well, since you put it that way, we really are being victimized. Why bother leveling up your toon, testing multiple builds, gathering HOs and now IOs, spend weeks or months leveling a character from 1 to 50 and learning everything there is to know about your powers, how they work, which combos works best, etc. etc. etc., only to find it's all USELESS when fighting the new big bad end game boss.
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Name me a single MMO game where an end/raid boss on the scale of Hamidon (and by scale I mean requires a large mass of players) does not overwhelm the defenses of any single character.
The devs wanted Hamidon to be something that required something other than "stack all the bubbles and fortitudes available and go to down". Is this the only way they could have done it? No. But given what they've decided Hamidon itself should be - a large, unmoving foe, this is one of the most time-effective means they could use.
Hamidon in any form similar to what he is now would be completely trivialized by a zone full of players who's powers actually worked on him.
Here's a revalation for you: if the armored ATs could use thier defenses to stand up to Hamidon the way you seem to want them to, in order to be as challenging as he is to them right now, assuming the same basic behavior, he would have to be able to absolutely annhiliate any non-armored (or equivalent) AT, as he would have to do between 4x and 10x his current damage. That sounds grand, doesn't it?
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And hell, I've been on enough teams to know that even with full resistances and defense current toons can very easily be overwhelmed by their enemies, simply by taking more damage than they can mitigate.
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You've been on teams of 50 people? Neat!
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I just keep thinking back thru 30 some odd years of comic book stories when heroes were gathered in teamups to defeat a dire enemy.
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This is not a comic book. I am really done with people going here. This is a game inspired by comic themes. Comic books are stories the flow of which, every concept and event in, serve the storytelling aims of the author. Books need no balance. The most indestructable character in the universe can be threatened by the loss of loved ones, or by plots that super strength cannot defeat. These things cannot be reliably represented in the modern MMO. CoH is a D20-style combat simulation that looks like comics. It cannot be true to fiction because there is no author. We are the characters, and we have to be limited in the scope of the game's context.
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It's simply ridiculous that with such a rich history of large scale battles in comic book lore the devs chose to throw it all out the window and just make this creature -- a human infused with dark magiks -- into a virtually indestructible, unstoppable, laws-of-physics, time, and space-breaking omnipotent god.
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Because that never happens in the comics.
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EVERYTHING has a weakness. Galactus has a weakness. The Oans have a weakness. Doomsday has a weakness. Hami has none.
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Nice selective memory, since I actually enumerated Hamidon's weaknesses earlier.
Did I mention that the new Hamidon is actually easier to kill in tems of damage dealt? Imagine that. He's harder because he's actually more dangerous than before. And the battles with him are short and frentic instead of long and tedious like they were in I8 and before.
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There is no real challenge here.
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That always happens when you run away and cry that it's too hard.
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And the only strategy involves figuring out how many of each AT you need, what powers they must have
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Wait, you mean like the rest of the bloody game?
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After that, it's pretty much the same as every other foe in CoX -- kill anything that moves as quickly as possible.
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Oh, you do mean that! So... do you not actually like the rest of the game?
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After all the kinks of the "strategy" are worked out, doing Hami will simply be by rote, just as it always has before.
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And someone claimed this would not be so.... where?
The difference is that it's a much, much more active "rote". It requires everyone present to move in tandem, not just put someone on follow and click their best ranged power. It can't fail because someone pulls a giant monster onto people tediously casting holds on Hamidon, or because they lag. The whole thing is much more active, and is clearly going to be much less boring than before, because the combat phases are much shorter. Hell, even planning to get out of dodge when new blooms appear is more interesting.
You refuse to see that the encounter has actually been improved, even if one agrees it has bogus mechanics of threat. That hasn't changed. But victory comes through active participation of a smaller core of people (and there was always a smaller core of people at pre-I9 raids who were actually paying attention) acting in brief, coordinated bursts. For the people who are there to actually participate and pay attention, it's a lot more enjoyable. For the people who were bored and afk, they can either step up or go run the STF. You see, the real beauty of it is that they now have that choice.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Ok, I'll try it. I'll solo an entire mission just by confusing my foes. We'll see how quickly and how much XP I get. Moron.
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As for the to-hit buff being not worth it on anything but controllers/defenders/corruptors
look at the numbers
base numbers at lvl 50
blaster, tanker, scrapper, brute, stalker 7%
khledians 9%
controllers, corruptors 10%
defender 12.5%
Dominators, masterminds 7.5%
not a huge spread there. yeah, 5% can make a difference, but its hardly neglegible.
Also, almost every blaster gets Aim, if you have devices secondary, you also get Targetting drone, 2 more self tohit buffs
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Anything less than 15% of a tohit buff is by and large meaningless. Only Corruptors, Defenders, and Controllers can get to that level or higher.
Since you're so fond of math, why don't you sit down and figure out exactly what a 7% tohit buff buys you versus what a 7% accuracy buff buys you. In either case, squat.
And yeah, that 10 second Aim is gonna get you really far. "ok, hold on everyone, let me wait for Aim to recharge before we fight those CoT." <10 seconds pass> "sorry guys, I gotta wait for aim to recharge again..."
Oh yes, and you're right Targeting Drone is a fairly decent tohit buff. If you're a */devices blaster. What about the other 20+ combinations of blasters, what do they get. Oh, um, NOTHING.
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Well, since you put it that way, we really are being victimized. Why bother leveling up your toon, testing multiple builds, gathering HOs and now IOs, spend weeks or months leveling a character from 1 to 50 and learning everything there is to know about your powers, how they work, which combos works best, etc. etc. etc., only to find it's all USELESS when fighting the new big bad end game boss.
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Name me a single MMO game where an end/raid boss on the scale of Hamidon (and by scale I mean requires a large mass of players) does not overwhelm the defenses of any single character.
The devs wanted Hamidon to be something that required something other than "stack all the bubbles and fortitudes available and go to down". Is this the only way they could have done it? No. But given what they've decided Hamidon itself should be - a large, unmoving foe, this is one of the most time-effective means they could use.
Hamidon in any form similar to what he is now would be completely trivialized by a zone full of players who's powers actually worked on him.
Here's a revalation for you: if the armored ATs could use thier defenses to stand up to Hamidon the way you seem to want them to, in order to be as challenging as he is to them right now, assuming the same basic behavior, he would have to be able to absolutely annhiliate any non-armored (or equivalent) AT, as he would have to do between 4x and 10x his current damage. That sounds grand, doesn't it?
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And hell, I've been on enough teams to know that even with full resistances and defense current toons can very easily be overwhelmed by their enemies, simply by taking more damage than they can mitigate.
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You've been on teams of 50 people? Neat!
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I just keep thinking back thru 30 some odd years of comic book stories when heroes were gathered in teamups to defeat a dire enemy.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is not a comic book. I am really done with people going here. This is a game inspired by comic themes. Comic books are stories the flow of which, every concept and event in, serve the storytelling aims of the author. Books need no balance. The most indestructable character in the universe can be threatened by the loss of loved ones, or by plots that super strength cannot defeat. These things cannot be reliably represented in the modern MMO. CoH is a D20-style combat simulation that looks like comics. It cannot be true to fiction because there is no author. We are the characters, and we have to be limited in the scope of the game's context.
[ QUOTE ]
It's simply ridiculous that with such a rich history of large scale battles in comic book lore the devs chose to throw it all out the window and just make this creature -- a human infused with dark magiks -- into a virtually indestructible, unstoppable, laws-of-physics, time, and space-breaking omnipotent god.
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Because that never happens in the comics.
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EVERYTHING has a weakness. Galactus has a weakness. The Oans have a weakness. Doomsday has a weakness. Hami has none.
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Nice selective memory, since I actually enumerated Hamidon's weaknesses earlier.
Did I mention that the new Hamidon is actually easier to kill in tems of damage dealt? Imagine that. He's harder because he's actually more dangerous than before. And the battles with him are short and frentic instead of long and tedious like they were in I8 and before.
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There is no real challenge here.
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That always happens when you run away and cry that it's too hard.
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And the only strategy involves figuring out how many of each AT you need, what powers they must have
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Wait, you mean like the rest of the bloody game?
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After that, it's pretty much the same as every other foe in CoX -- kill anything that moves as quickly as possible.
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Oh, you do mean that! So... do you not actually like the rest of the game?
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After all the kinks of the "strategy" are worked out, doing Hami will simply be by rote, just as it always has before.
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And someone claimed this would not be so.... where?
The difference is that it's a much, much more active "rote". It requires everyone present to move in tandem, not just put someone on follow and click their best ranged power. It can't fail because someone pulls a giant monster onto people tediously casting holds on Hamidon, or because they lag. The whole thing is much more active, and is clearly going to be much less boring than before, because the combat phases are much shorter. Hell, even planning to get out of dodge when new blooms appear is more interesting.
You refuse to see that the encounter has actually been improved, even if one agrees it has bogus mechanics of threat. That hasn't changed. But victory comes through active participation of a smaller core of people (and there was always a smaller core of people at pre-I9 raids who were actually paying attention) acting in brief, coordinated bursts. For the people who are there to actually participate and pay attention, it's a lot more enjoyable. For the people who were bored and afk, they can either step up or go run the STF. You see, the real beauty of it is that they now have that choice.
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I'm soooo [censored] tired of arguing with you people. Ok fine. You're all 100% right. The new Hami encounter is the best thing since sliced bread.
All the nerfs that have come and will come are not really nerfs, they're just "evolutions".
The game is better now than it's every been. Really.
Are you all happy now? I guess I'm the deranged one that actually expects a Super Hero RPG to play like, I dunno, Super Heroes. Obvioulsy, I'm mistaken. It's a game loosely based on super heroes, formulated on a D327094370 system of illogical and nonsensical rules where anything and everything can happen at anytime just cause. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
Have fun playing your super-duper fun game. And oh yea, you're always right, and I'm always wrong.
La
Dee
Daa
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::hissing voice over::
"We have broken him my lord!!!!"
::Mr. Burns voice over::
"Excellent. Release the hounds for the last remaining few."
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Ok, I'll try it. I'll solo an entire mission just by confusing my foes. We'll see how quickly and how much XP I get. Moron.
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Resorting to insults will get you nowhere. Decieve can, and usually does, result in a net gain in your XP over time.
7% accuracy, or to-hit for that matter, can make a difference, when fighting things that are at least +3, those 2 SOs bringing your accuracy to 150%? make it 157%, you'll hit more.
Against things +2 or lower, any buff to your accuracy beyond that 2 SO mark or to your to-hit won't matter much, unless you've got something hitting you with to-hit debuffs, or accuracy debuffs.
Mind you, this does not hold true in PvP, but since 80% of the game is PvE, and PvP will never be balanced, I'm not too worried about it.
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Oh yes, and you're right Targeting Drone is a fairly decent tohit buff. If you're a */devices blaster. What about the other 20+ combinations of blasters, what do they get. Oh, um, NOTHING.
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You are right, there are 28 combinations of blasters that do not get targetting drones.
but look at it the other way, 20% of the combinations DO get targetting drone. I'll take it you're a "glass is half empty" kind of person.
Aim may be up for 10 seconds, however, with 3 recharge SOs its got a 46.2 second recharge, meaning its up almost 25% of the time without outside boosts. add in hasten, Accellerate Metabolism, Speed Boost, Adrenaline Boost, or any other power that increases your recharge rate, and that number will be even better.
with a 46 second recharge, Aim will be up every other fight, if your team is moving slower than optimal, it could be up every fight. Remember, thats without outside boosts.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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And I wonder, with the 2 months that I9 sat on test, at no point did anyone realize that EoEs were granting full protection? Not once? Even when the raids were being monitored by in-game devs did they not notice? Sorry, but it smells a lot like Christmas all over again.
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Just making sure we're on the same page here. We had discovered this with the first public raid tests heroside in the i9 private testing and this information was reiterated several times on the forums, and in threads developers also posted in. AFAIK only people who neither frequented the forums or never tried EoE in a Hamidon raid, that also conveniently missed any number of opportunties to ask what an EoE inspiration does, could have possibly not known about EoE granting 100% resistance to all special damage dealt by Hamidon. You don't even get entries in your damage log because zero damage is done hehe. 
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Bypassing everyone's resistances and defenses is nothing more than a cheap trick -- not completely unexpected as the devs have been relying on cheap tricks since I2 and the creation of the post level 40 game.
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Let me see if I get this straight, because occasionally I get confused. You believe this, and you *also* believe this:
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Actually I was much more concerned with them changing set tohit buffs to accuracy buffs, essentially making those buffs useless.
All the +accuracy in the world isn't gonna help you against foes with defense and/or tohit debuffs. This was the sole opportunity for toons without access to a persistent tohit buff to actually be able to reasonably fight these foes. Tanks and Scrappers can get Focused Accuracy at level 41, Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors can get Tactics if they can squeeze it into their builds, and the rest get NOTHING.
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... at the same time? How do they fit in the same head?
Tohit buffs are, in essence, a cheap trick to bypass defenses. There are lots of mechanically complex reasons for desiring the *existence* of a cheap trick to bypass defense, which I've written more words on than you've written actual words (and I'm not talking about here, specifically, either). But seriously, separate from the blatant contradiction, its worth noting that this is one in a long list of examples of people's perceptions having exactly no correlation to reality whatsoever. For example:
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Anything less than 15% of a tohit buff is by and large meaningless. Only Corruptors, Defenders, and Controllers can get to that level or higher.
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Sure, if you are one of those people that have the basic opinion that there is hitting all the time, and everything else, then you might think this. However, its worth noting that the current version of the invention system allows for much higher tohit buffs than that, and combined with just plain old tactics anyone could still get about as much tohit buffs as an SR scrapper has defenses, which is ridiculous.
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And if they were actually supposed to be accuracy buffs, not tohit buffs, why were the values of the tohit buffs cut in half while on test?
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Ooh, ooh, me, me!
They were originally tohit buffs because it wasn't thought that there was a way to make them accuracy buffs. They wanted to give players a way to hit more often and that was the only way to do it at the time. However, the side effect of allowing players to hit more often in this case was that they would hit defensive sets way, way, way too often.
When it became clear just how much tohit buffs there were, and how they could be stacked, in sample calculations (like, say, [u]mine[u]) they decided to knock them down so that they wouldn't hit defensive sets as hard.
The problem was that there really isn't a value for tohit buffs that is strong enough under all conditions in PvE, without being disasterous for defense sets in PvP. There is no sweet spot, but that doesn't stop the devs from trying to find one anyway. But they *knew* there was a problem, they just were not sure how to address it. They definitely wanted increased accuracy in PvE, but didn't want to further unbalance PvP. That just wasn't possible, because there isn't a Player Accuracy attribute to modify: the notion of a "player accuracy buff" doesn't exist in the current game.
The realization was, though, that while there is no way to buff a player's accuracy, there *was* a way to buff all the accuracy attributes of every single power possessed by a player. *That* revelation allowed the devs to implement the +Acc in the invention system as originally desired: something that was a nice boost in PvE, without being a problem in PvP.
The change is happening now, after go-live, because they didn't want this particular patch, which has a whole lot of powers changes, to hold up the I9 release.
They are +accuracy because they were always intended to be +accuracy. They were only +tohit because they thought they had no choice. In fact, its actually a valid point of debate to ask whether *any* "persistent" tohit buffs were actually meant to be tohit buffs when cast in this light. "Focused Accuracy" is not called "Focused ToHit:" it claims to boost accuracy, when it actually boosts player base tohit. Tactics is also specifically said to buff ally Accuracy. Something worth thinking about.
Oh, and:
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Tohit buff = useful. Accuracy buffs = useless.
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Deslot all your accuracy and come back and say this again.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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<QR>
::hissing voice over::
"We have broken him my lord!!!!"
::Mr. Burns voice over::
"Excellent. Release the hounds for the last remaining few."
[/ QUOTE ]
Please... hardly. I just won't get into a pissing match with someone who obviously cannot debate the points at hand and must resort to twisting my words around and saying stupid things like "well yeah, it's a Super Hero RPG but that doesn't mean it has to be actually like Super Heroes, now does it?"
Sorry, when the discussion gets to that point it's obvious it has degenerated to 5th grade debate team status, and I just won't go there.
So yes, y'all have fun with your lovely new Hami, and your lovely new STF, and you're wonderfully useless IOs and their equally useless set bonuses for which the first round of nerfs is already sitting on the test server.
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Ok, I'll try it. I'll solo an entire mission just by confusing my foes. We'll see how quickly and how much XP I get. Moron.
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Resorting to insults will get you nowhere. Decieve can, and usually does, result in a net gain in your XP over time.
7% accuracy, or to-hit for that matter, can make a difference, when fighting things that are at least +3, those 2 SOs bringing your accuracy to 150%? make it 157%, you'll hit more.
Against things +2 or lower, any buff to your accuracy beyond that 2 SO mark or to your to-hit won't matter much, unless you've got something hitting you with to-hit debuffs, or accuracy debuffs.
Mind you, this does not hold true in PvP, but since 80% of the game is PvE, and PvP will never be balanced, I'm not too worried about it.
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Oh yes, and you're right Targeting Drone is a fairly decent tohit buff. If you're a */devices blaster. What about the other 20+ combinations of blasters, what do they get. Oh, um, NOTHING.
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You are right, there are 28 combinations of blasters that do not get targetting drones.
but look at it the other way, 20% of the combinations DO get targetting drone. I'll take it you're a "glass is half empty" kind of person.
Aim may be up for 10 seconds, however, with 3 recharge SOs its got a 46.2 second recharge, meaning its up almost 25% of the time without outside boosts. add in hasten, Accellerate Metabolism, Speed Boost, Adrenaline Boost, or any other power that increases your recharge rate, and that number will be even better.
with a 46 second recharge, Aim will be up every other fight, if your team is moving slower than optimal, it could be up every fight. Remember, thats without outside boosts.
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Yes, and I'm done arguing with you. I've said all I wanted to say an I'm not going to get into a pissing match.
You're 100% right about everything, and I'm 100% wrong (especially when you twist my words around).
And even tho your you're 100% right about everything, you obviously have no clue how to calculate accuracy and tohit buffs, but you're always right anyway. And if you see 20% as your glass being half-full, then your math is a lot worse than I first expected. But again, since you're always right 20% MUST equal half-full.
And sure, why not, every time I play my blaster I'll just drag along a rad, kin, and empath so that I can have Aim up "almost every battle". Yes, I certainly see how that is a legitimate alternative to a persistent, always on tohit buff. What the hell was I thinking to question your omnipotence?
Wait, I got it! I'll just get an illusion troller instead of all that and just sit back and let them deceive the entire map. Then I don't have to even worry about being able to hit things! Yes yes, that's exactly what I'll do. Problem solved!
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Hamidon and the mitos do damage through Phase Shift to prevent Phantom Army and Phase Shift type powers becoming "required" for a raid.
[/ QUOTE ]But just Hamidon & Mitos, right?
Can you explain this? Did Hami sneak up behind us while we were fighting Scirocco?
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Had I not seen the picture, I wouldn't have understood. That's weird and probably a bug. However, I have noticed that even when I dismiss my pets who have attacked something the chat bar will register than the mob they were fighting killed them. Likewise, Gangwar sometimes registers that a mob has killed them when their timer runs out.
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Yes, and I'm done arguing with you. I've said all I wanted to say an I'm not going to get into a pissing match.
You're 100% right about everything, and I'm 100% wrong (especially when you twist my words around).
And even tho your you're 100% right about everything, you obviously have no clue how to calculate accuracy and tohit buffs, but you're always right anyway. And if you see 20% as your glass being half-full, then your math is a lot worse than I first expected. But again, since you're always right 20% MUST equal half-full.
And sure, why not, every time I play my blaster I'll just drag along a rad, kin, and empath so that I can have Aim up "almost every battle". Yes, I certainly see how that is a legitimate alternative to a persistent, always on tohit buff. What the hell was I thinking to question your omnipotence?
Wait, I got it! I'll just get an illusion troller instead of all that and just sit back and let them deceive the entire map. Then I don't have to even worry about being able to hit things! Yes yes, that's exactly what I'll do. Problem solved!
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Second time I've said it today...
I love irony.
I have explaied to you that Aim will be up either every fight or every other fight by yourself, simply by adding 2 slots. You twisted it saying that an outside buff is necessary to get these results
a full 1/5 of the blaster secondaries have access to targetting drone your "20+ combinations" is twisting math. percentages and fractions mean more than hard numbers, allow me to demonstrate using a statistic.
In 2006, a study showed that there were 744,000 homeless people in the US. Wow, that number is huge, right? Yep, thats a lot of people, but the population of the US is about 302 million people, meaning that our "homeless epidemic" is a whopping .0025 percent of the population.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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Bypassing everyone's resistances and defenses is nothing more than a cheap trick -- not completely unexpected as the devs have been relying on cheap tricks since I2 and the creation of the post level 40 game.
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Let me see if I get this straight, because occasionally I get confused. You believe this, and you *also* believe this:
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Actually I was much more concerned with them changing set tohit buffs to accuracy buffs, essentially making those buffs useless.
All the +accuracy in the world isn't gonna help you against foes with defense and/or tohit debuffs. This was the sole opportunity for toons without access to a persistent tohit buff to actually be able to reasonably fight these foes. Tanks and Scrappers can get Focused Accuracy at level 41, Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors can get Tactics if they can squeeze it into their builds, and the rest get NOTHING.
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... at the same time? How do they fit in the same head?
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Cheap Trick: when my dark/dark brute or inv/ss tank has to fight CoT and get multiple stacked tohit debuffs that completely floors their accuracy, making them unable to hit anything save 5%.
Counter Cheap Trick: some kind of tohit buff that allows me to bypass said Cheap Trick, and I dunno, actually be able to HIT my foes?
Cheap Trick: battling a room full of Sky Raiders with 3 or more force field generators, making them untouchable.
Counter Cheap Trick: having a tohit buff that will actually allow me to hit the things I'm fighting.
Cause I know I don't need to tell you that adding accuracy once your base chance to hit is floored does virtually nothing. The only thing to counter massive "cheap trick" defense buffs and debuffs are via tohit buffs.
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Tohit buffs are, in essence, a cheap trick to bypass defenses.
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Defenses that are nothing but a cheap trick to make some foes "harder" without actually making them harder.
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Anything less than 15% of a tohit buff is by and large meaningless. Only Corruptors, Defenders, and Controllers can get to that level or higher.
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Sure, if you are one of those people that have the basic opinion that there is hitting all the time, and everything else, then you might think this. However, its worth noting that the current version of the invention system allows for much higher tohit buffs than that, and combined with just plain old tactics anyone could still get about as much tohit buffs as an SR scrapper has defenses, which is ridiculous.
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Ridiculous if you're an SR scrapper that PvPs. Not so ridiculous when you're fighting CoT and have 3 or more applications of Chill of the Night on you. I don't expect to hit everything all the time, but I really, really have a problem with being able to hit nothing all the time.
So if the devs reduce all the foe tohit debuffs and defense buffs (everyone who enjoys fighting large spawns of Rikti drones without a tohit buff stand up and say AYE!!) to a reasonable level and/or remove their stackability, then perhaps we wouldn't need to have all those tohit buffs. But fat chance of that happening. And oh, I forgot my very very favorite -- fighting Nemesis with not one, not two, but 3 stacked vengeance. Cheap trick indeed...
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And if they were actually supposed to be accuracy buffs, not tohit buffs, why were the values of the tohit buffs cut in half while on test?
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Ooh, ooh, me, me!
They were originally tohit buffs because it wasn't thought that there was a way to make them accuracy buffs. They wanted to give players a way to hit more often and that was the only way to do it at the time. However, the side effect of allowing players to hit more often in this case was that they would hit defensive sets way, way, way too often.
When it became clear just how much tohit buffs there were, and how they could be stacked, in sample calculations (like, say, [u]mine[u]) they decided to knock them down so that they wouldn't hit defensive sets as hard.
The problem was that there really isn't a value for tohit buffs that is strong enough under all conditions in PvE, without being disasterous for defense sets in PvP. There is no sweet spot, but that doesn't stop the devs from trying to find one anyway. But they *knew* there was a problem, they just were not sure how to address it. They definitely wanted increased accuracy in PvE, but didn't want to further unbalance PvP. That just wasn't possible, because there isn't a Player Accuracy attribute to modify: the notion of a "player accuracy buff" doesn't exist in the current game.
The realization was, though, that while there is no way to buff a player's accuracy, there *was* a way to buff all the accuracy attributes of every single power possessed by a player. *That* revelation allowed the devs to implement the +Acc in the invention system as originally desired: something that was a nice boost in PvE, without being a problem in PvP.
The change is happening now, after go-live, because they didn't want this particular patch, which has a whole lot of powers changes, to hold up the I9 release.
They are +accuracy because they were always intended to be +accuracy. They were only +tohit because they thought they had no choice. In fact, its actually a valid point of debate to ask whether *any* "persistent" tohit buffs were actually meant to be tohit buffs when cast in this light. "Focused Accuracy" is not called "Focused ToHit:" it claims to boost accuracy, when it actually boosts player base tohit. Tactics is also specifically said to buff ally Accuracy. Something worth thinking about.
Oh, and:
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Tohit buff = useful. Accuracy buffs = useless.
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Deslot all your accuracy and come back and say this again.
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When your base chance to hit is floored, accuracy does squat. You know this, I don't need to tell you this. So how exactly is that statement wrong? When you can't hit things because they've debuffed your chance to hit or have obnoxiously high defenses, adding more accuracy isn't going to help you, at least not much. Tohit buffs will help much more at significantly smaller values.
And y'know what, what the hell is wrong with actually wanting to hit everything all the time? Do you actually enjoy missing? I don't. PvP aside of course.
So there's the solution. Take out all the PvE tohit debuffs and defense buffs. Then we wouldn't need any tohit buffs in the game, and PvP can be wonderfully balanced (tho I'm sure someone will still find something to whine about).
And if the devs can find a way to turn tohit buffs into accy buffs, why can't they make that happen only in PvP areas? That way we naughtly little PvE beggars that actually like to hit what we're fighting can have fun, while all the incessant PvP defense toons can rest easy that their precious SR scrapper won't get one shotted all the time.
See, everyone wins. Oh wait, this is a Cryptic game. No, what was I thinking. This will never happen. Sorry, I got caught up in the moment. Everyone go back to whining...
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Please... hardly. I just won't get into a pissing match with someone who obviously cannot debate the points at hand and must resort to twisting my words around and saying stupid things like "well yeah, it's a Super Hero RPG but that doesn't mean it has to be actually like Super Heroes, now does it?"
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What's surprising about that? Middle-age fantasy based games often don't feature dysentery, plague, drilled teeth sans anesthesia and people getting wed at 13 years old, either.
There is only so much of an inspiriational source one can reflect in an MMO, sadly.
I've lost all use for "this should be more/less like the inspirational source" arguments. Comics have The Beyonder. Work that into your game engine.
Post deleted by Emnity
They need to stop nerfing things.
WillyBorn you assessment of Hamidon is flawed. Hamidon isn't a single entity threat like Galactus, or Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet, or some Raid Boss Huge Dragon. Hamidon is more of massive invading force. Taken headon the invading force is unstoppable. What do you do? You don't take it headon.
Hamidon taken headon is unstoppable. Massive firepower. Massed amount of support fire. Well formed and overlapping defenses and support. Any force trying a headon rush is going to be annihilated. In order to defeat Hamidon, you have to treat him like an Invading Force. An army. Do beat an army you, do recon, gather intelligence, inventory your assets, form a plan of attack, pull the trigger, and hope for the best.
And Hamidon's so called breaking the rules? It doesn't matter. It's a decision the devs made so this new encounter isn't trivialized like the old Hamidon. Are PAs still useful in this new Hamidon raid? Heck ya. There are still useful versus Blue and Green mitos.
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Well I see the idea but I think it's just too' lazy of the Devs not explain why he can now hit you though PS.
I think a better fix would've been to just make him ignor anything that's PSed. PAs included. That would solve the tanking prob.
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Hami is modulating the frequencies on his blasts until he finds the proper N-Space you exist in.
jeez, you really need to get out more....
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When your base chance to hit is floored, accuracy does squat. You know this, I don't need to tell you this.
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Actually, if you're floored, accuracy *always* has an effect, tohit buffs don't unless they are high enough.
Take something with very high defense, like an Eluded scrapper in PvP, or maybe a MoGed PP in PvE. Stacking a small amount of tohit, something that might have a very dramatic effect on something very close to flooring you, on something that is deep-flooring you actually has zero effect. Accuracy always increases your chance to hit, right up to the tohit ceiling, by a proportional amount.
The proportional amount might not be as much as you want, but that's not the same thing as saying its worthless.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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When your base chance to hit is floored, accuracy does squat. You know this, I don't need to tell you this.
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Actually, if you're floored, accuracy *always* has an effect, tohit buffs don't unless they are high enough.
Take something with very high defense, like an Eluded scrapper in PvP, or maybe a MoGed PP in PvE. Stacking a small amount of tohit, something that might have a very dramatic effect on something very close to flooring you, on something that is deep-flooring you actually has zero effect. Accuracy always increases your chance to hit, right up to the tohit ceiling, by a proportional amount.
The proportional amount might not be as much as you want, but that's not the same thing as saying its worthless.
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Yes yes yes... if I'm being floored, as in hit with so much tohit debuffs that after adding in the tohit buffs I still can't get above 5%, then yes, they do nothing. And yes, in that case an extra 20% accuracy is gonna add a whopping 1%. So lessee... 5% or 6% (assume no slotted accuracy enhancements)? Both squat. So what's your point?
But let's say I have a 30% persistent tohit buff and I get hit with 50% worth of tohit debuffs. Adjusted chance to hit is 30% (assuming a starting base chance to hit of 50%, not uncommon while fighting +2s and +3s). Add in 1 accuracy SO from your powers and your chance to hit is now 40%. Not great, but a whole lot better than the 6.65% I would have had without the tohit buff.
Now let's say that 30% tohit buff is now an accuracy buff. Adjusted chance to hit becomes 5%. With the 1 SO and the 30% accuracy buff my chance to hit is... <drum roll please>... 8.15%
So that big whopping 30% accuracy buff that required multiple IO sets to get, at who knows what cost in terms of reduced abilities, not to mention millions upon millions in inf, will take your accuracy in this very common case from 6.65% to 8.15% -- a net gain of 1.5% What kinda crack are you smokin dude that you think this is worthwhile???
And since when does the whole game just adjust solely for SR Scrappers in PvP? Cause it's not like I can just run out and craft up 4 or 5 full sets of IO inventions right now to give every toon I have a 30% tohit buff. You all make it sound like it's something every single toon can easily and cheaply obtain. Well it ain't. And before someone utters "Focused Accuracy" one more time, I'll remind you it can't be obtained till LEVEL 41. That gives all you SR scrappers 40 levels of unfettered PvP playtime.
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"Focused Accuracy" one more time, I'll remind you it can't be obtained till LEVEL 41. That gives all you SR scrappers 40 levels of unfettered PvP playtime.
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PvP zones don't open up until level 15, every other to-hit buff (Yes, even "useless" Aim) opens before that.
Enhancement values also play an important roll. SR's toggle defenses offer a whopping 16% defense at TO level, three slotted at DO level, its a massive 18% defense.
Oh, and you broke your promise, you didnt stop arguing.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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Modified Accuracy Set Bonuses -- They now modify the Accuracy of all of a players powers, instead of modifying the players base To Hit value.
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Hmm, that doesn't sound like a nerf, that sounds a lot more like DOING WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO DO.
"accuracy" bonus should affect "accuracy" not anything else, sorry.
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Tanks and Scrappers can get Focused Accuracy at level 41, Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors can get Tactics if they can squeeze it into their builds, and the rest get NOTHING.
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Anyone can pick up tactics, 3 slotted with to-hit buffs, it does help pretty much any AT, though certainly defenders get the biggest buff for it.
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I guess Scirocco "evolved" as well.
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As somebody else already said, it is probably a bug, since it doesnt happen consitently. /bug is your friend.
Illusion has Specral Terror, one of the best AoE controls in the game. it can fear a boss, allowing you to apply that hold as you please.
it also has decieve, which does not do direct damage, but it certainly does damage.
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If that were the case it should have been noted in the Known Issues section. Yes yes, I know, they're only human, blah blah blah, notes get missed, blah blah blah, the janitor accidentally threw out the latest additions, blah blah blah, someones dog ate the new list, blah blah blah...
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Nothing I say here is going to change your mind, since you seem to think that it is impossible for a human to make a mistake.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea