Just 1 more reason not to take Phase Shift!
By
Amarsir,
Posted on: 2007-05-02 22:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Everyone go back to whining...
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Hilarious.
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"Focused Accuracy" one more time, I'll remind you it can't be obtained till LEVEL 41. That gives all you SR scrappers 40 levels of unfettered PvP playtime.
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PvP zones don't open up until level 15, every other to-hit buff (Yes, even "useless" Aim) opens before that.
Enhancement values also play an important roll. SR's toggle defenses offer a whopping 16% defense at TO level, three slotted at DO level, its a massive 18% defense.
Oh, and you broke your promise, you didnt stop arguing.
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I only promised to stop arguing with people like you who degrade the discussion to a 12-year old's level.
And for the record, this isn't an argument either, just a point of fact.
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I only promised to stop arguing with people like you who degrade the discussion to a 12-year old's level.
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You keep saying that word
I think it does not mean what you think it means
You don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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"Focused Accuracy" one more time, I'll remind you it can't be obtained till LEVEL 41. That gives all you SR scrappers 40 levels of unfettered PvP playtime.
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PvP zones don't open up until level 15, every other to-hit buff (Yes, even "useless" Aim) opens before that.
Enhancement values also play an important roll. SR's toggle defenses offer a whopping 16% defense at TO level, three slotted at DO level, its a massive 18% defense.
Oh, and you broke your promise, you didnt stop arguing.
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I only promised to stop arguing with people like you who degrade the discussion to a 12-year old's level.
And for the record, this isn't an argument either, just a point of fact.
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Not only completely off-topic at this point, but completely hypocritical 
Remember, whenever someone has a different opinion, revert to calling them "whiners" by backing it up with opinionated "facts".
(Not a point of fact, merely an observation)
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Everyone go back to whining...
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Hilarious.
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Archana... after having done a post search on this... very emotionally involved fellow... why are you bothering?
Seriously: he's using the forum as an emotional catharsis. Just let him rant, he's harmless without some poor poster's response to mangle.
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And since when does the whole game just adjust solely for SR Scrappers in PvP? Cause it's not like I can just run out and craft up 4 or 5 full sets of IO inventions right now to give every toon I have a 30% tohit buff. You all make it sound like it's something every single toon can easily and cheaply obtain. Well it ain't. And before someone utters "Focused Accuracy" one more time, I'll remind you it can't be obtained till LEVEL 41. That gives all you SR scrappers 40 levels of unfettered PvP playtime.
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My "unfettered PvP playtime" ends at level 8, when tactics technically becomes available.
You were not meant to have the tohit buffs: this is the correction of an error. And its not SR scrappers alone that were significantly and negatively affected by this error, it was SR scrappers and stalkers, Energy Aura stalkers and brutes, force field defenders, controllers, and masterminds, Ice tankers, stone tankers and brutes, pretty much anything that relies on defense for protection. They all have to be screwed so you can hit more often? I think not: drop your difficulty scaler and go hunt weaker prey, if having fair game impairs your abilities that much.
Listen up: the game *does* in fact get designed around SR scrappers. SR scrappers virtually *always* get *screwed* because of this. The devs placed positional defenses very high up on the set bonus ladder. Do you think that was so players wouldn't be able to stack them on combat jump? Do you think that was an accident? No: that was a specific decision to make it extremely difficult for SR to stack positional defenses.
Why are power pool powers weak? Because the devs are worried that defense sets, especially SR (and Ice) can stack them too high. They are very cogniscent of that, and make sure that SR scrappers have limits to the amount of defense they can buy, and how they can stack.
Do you think the devs don't know that high-order tohit buffs skewer defense sets, like SR, in PvP? They know: I know they know. But they let everyone keep them anyway. They could fix the problem tomorrow, but they've made the calculated decision to allow players to keep those powers, so that they continue to have the effect they have in PvE, and so that they continue to have the effect they have in PvP against all other non-defense oriented power sets. They *know* they are slanting the table against defense sets, like SR, but their calculus is that if SR scrappers have to die so the majority of players can feel good about themselves, so be it.
So if you're going to cry about losing a bunch of excessive tohit buffs you were never even supposed to have in the first place, because as far as you're concerned it doesn't matter how many defense set bodies you have to stack to get a good view of the game, well, all I can say is its a shame you're not going to get what you need; not while I'm around.
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#1: I love that you know all of this.
#2: I would love to know how you know all of this.
#3: Can I get a thought transfer so I can understand it all even if I did know where you get all that wonderful information?
I always enjoy your posts.
-Sam
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#2: I would love to know how you know all of this.
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You bother the devs for years, you pick up a thing or two.
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#2: I would love to know how you know all of this.
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You bother the devs for years, you pick up a thing or two.
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True, but I suspect most of us would just pick up a bunch of /ignores.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
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This ability to attack phase-shifted targets is part of that evolution.
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Hrumpf!
Back before Phaseshift was gutted (Pre CoV) many people, my self included, suggested that phased characters be able to attack each other rather than the now in-place, kludge of a fix to keep Masterminds in check, was implemented. The official response was, essentially "We do not want to do that because who is to say that all people phase in the same way." or to use Champions terms, every ones phase shift special effect was different.
Now that get tossed out the window for Hami?
Bah. Just remove phaseshift from the game already, rather than keep nipping pieces off it's decaying carcass. The power is still useless in the developer stated role of an Oh crap! power because of the activation time (which was promised to be fixed, but I doubt it has been).
Honestly, I have PS on one character and that is soley for RP purposes. Were it not for that I would have none of the Concealment Pool.
If MMs were the issue, why not simply have their Pets "die" if the owner uses Phases Shift. "Hey....the boss just left us high and dry...let get outta here".
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This ability to attack phase-shifted targets is part of that evolution.
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Hrumpf!
Back before Phaseshift was gutted (Pre CoV) many people, my self included, suggested that phased characters be able to attack each other rather than the now in-place, kludge of a fix to keep Masterminds in check, was implemented. The official response was, essentially "We do not want to do that because who is to say that all people phase in the same way." or to use Champions terms, every ones phase shift special effect was different.
Now that get tossed out the window for Hami?
Bah. Just remove phaseshift from the game already, rather than keep nipping pieces off it's decaying carcass. The power is still useless in the developer stated role of an Oh crap! power because of the activation time (which was promised to be fixed, but I doubt it has been).
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Well that might have been what they said, but the reality was in the game engine not allowing it. "Phase Shift" is basically a flag saying "this person is now not touchable". Same holds true for other powers like dimension shift, detention field, Phantom Army, etc. Hami obviously was re-programmed to allow him to hit targets that are flagged as "untouchable". But this still is not the same as allowing one phase shifted person to fight another. That would still require additional re-coding that's probably neither quick or easy.
Just to add my two cents...I've had multiple instances when normal foes have hit my only character with PS through the phase...and I've taken screenshots of almost every one where it clearly state that my character "cannot hit nor be hit"... yet still dies. So the fact that an uber pile of goo can hit my char while PS'd is, well, rather unsurprising. Does it irritate me that a power does not work as stated? Sure. Do I really care that it doesn't work for one freakingly huge pile of goo? Maybe. But I'd settle for it working 100% against the regular mobs first. /end2cents
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This ability to attack phase-shifted targets is part of that evolution.
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Hrumpf!
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Double Hrumpf! Nice concept, but I don't like it. Why? Too broad. I'd consider it a fair trade though if you removed ED.
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Back before Phaseshift was gutted (Pre CoV) many people, my self included, suggested that phased characters be able to attack each other rather than the now in-place, kludge of a fix to keep Masterminds in check, was implemented. The official response was, essentially "We do not want to do that because who is to say that all people phase in the same way." or to use Champions terms, every ones phase shift special effect was different.
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I would think that if you were slotted the same way as another person you would be phased the same way. It's an easier explaination than evolution.
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Now that get tossed out the window for Hami?
Bah. Just remove phaseshift from the game already, rather than keep nipping pieces off it's decaying carcass. The power is still useless in the developer stated role of an Oh crap! power because of the activation time (which was promised to be fixed, but I doubt it has been).
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And for the last time saying it (for me anyway), this power was fun the way that it was before the 30 sec timer. However, I will say that for PvP purposes, yes it should have a timer IMO. What I will never understand is why the Nerf portion just always gets put right through, but the adjustment to the nerf (meaning changing activation time) gets put off til Jesus comes.
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However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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I was on a villain hami raid last night and it failed miserably. The whole PA/PS thing is bogus. "We were worried about PS/PA becoming required"
No disrespect but it's not like a solid 50% of trollers aren't Illusion already AND Not like PS isn't a pool power open to anyone thereby making it not AT limited. It's not like you guys had similar concerns for PvP and Leaping or TP or Acrobatics all of which are considered mandatory for PvP...
If you think we should beat it a certain way then fine TELL US WHAT THAT WAY IS. A challenge would be if it were tough enough to not always beat even using the "right" tactics not just ungodly strong and us shooting in the dark.
During the last Hami we always heard about how the ways we came up with weren't what you guys wanted and how YOU wanted us to do it a certain way. First of all YOU may have made this game but WE are paying for it and playing it and some of us have been with this game as long or longer than many of the Cryptic staff! It's as much our game as it is yours how about you let us beat it our way? Nope couldn't have that.
Now the New Un-Godly Strong Hamidon 2.0...this is a crazy encounter...Mitos that can do no wrong, holds an KB that hits through even the most stalwart of Defenses and anti-KB powers...we had Grounded, Acrobatic Brutes getting KB'd 60 yds.
Give us an example of a valid Hami beating tactic...or come on live sometime and get a Hami raid.
It went from predictable and too easy, cue Trademark Cryptic Full Pendulum Overreaction Swing, to terribly difficult and not fun at all. At least with easy Hami we could have fun and socialize with other players even if it WAS a bit too easy.
The best thing you guys did in I9 was STF. Its fun, difficult but not impossible. You don't need 4 team wipes to pull an individual Recluse Lackey AV like you do with pulling AVs in the LRSF and it's not frustratingly hard like Hamidon.
STF is the perfect balance to CoH/V of fun and difficulty. It's just a shame that's not present in LRSF or the new Hami raid.
Oh no... take a deep breath. You've just invited the Hami Pom-pom squad to the party.
Edit: Just wanted to add that I agree with the STF opinion. I very much enjoyed that one. They got it right on this Task Force.
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However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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I was on a villain hami raid last night and it failed miserably. The whole PA/PS thing is bogus. "We were worried about PS/PA becoming required"
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Please kill this thread.
Stop your whining.
Ooooh it's too hard there is a chance a failure, we can't perma hold while we chat and admire our colorful spandex.
Get over it. It's been proven that the new Hamidon is beatable. I was there on Test when one happened. Why should the Dev's spoon feed you?
It's like there is this group of people that think because they cannot pull up a command line and go into God mode that the game sucks. "I can't finish the game because I might die".
Stop complaining, do something constructive like reading the notes on the Hami raid on test and see what works. Better yet come up with your own solution. Don't like the "risk" go to Mercy or Pocket D and turn your self into a pumpkin.
Poison Pill
I have no concerns about debt (lvl 50) and I LOVE a good challenge whilse LRSF is hard and I have yet to be on a team to beat it I know it's possible because I've heard it done though I think it's still a tad too hard...
I've also been on many a Hami raid as a hero. I led many of them back in the day when PS allowed me to be the targeter of Mito for everyone else attacking.
I have no trouble with a challenge but there's a challenge then there's way too challenging. If they intend us to beat it a certain way then I'd appreciate they tell us instead of us finding an alternate way and them buffing Hami even more to prevent that method and then keep teasing us with a mythical solution that they won't reveal. As they've done in the past.
Also I would like to see one successful raid on each side on each server before I hear people saying it's fine and beatable. Test is far from Live in quality of testing, player demographics on one server might be heavily Corruptor or some other AT compared to another so unlike test any one server might not have the magical mix that test did with it's access to all servers and all players...
I know Pinnacle players have done it at least twice. I was chatting with a few VG mates that took part in one of the victories while I was on a LRSF. It took something like 4 hours.
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Also I would like to see one successful raid on each side on each server before I hear people saying it's fine and beatable. Test is far from Live in quality of testing, player demographics on one server might be heavily Corruptor or some other AT compared to another so unlike test any one server might not have the magical mix that test did with it's access to all servers and all players...
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The test server did not beat him with "magic" combinations of characters. Players, maybe, but not characters.
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Just to add my two cents...I've had multiple instances when normal foes have hit my only character with PS through the phase...and I've taken screenshots of almost every one where it clearly state that my character "cannot hit nor be hit"... yet still dies. So the fact that an uber pile of goo can hit my char while PS'd is, well, rather unsurprising. Does it irritate me that a power does not work as stated? Sure. Do I really care that it doesn't work for one freakingly huge pile of goo? Maybe. But I'd settle for it working 100% against the regular mobs first. /end2cents
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That is something of an Illusion. The problem is the large amount of latency in a MM Online game. that includes you internet connection, but also all of event processong of the server and the effects that your game client is rendering. What is happening from the server point of view is this. You activate Phase Shift shift powers which send the event to the Game Sever. These is a bit of delay as that peskly light speed limit. While that's happening, the AI of NPCs has activated attacks to try to hit you, the To Hit determine is made that instant. Unfortunately for you it's a teeny bit before the server received the event for your Phase Shift activate (or it's during the PS activation time). This is all according to server's sense of timing. So youve been hit before your untouchable, but you just don't know it yet. The game server has to send the event to the game client in order to render the attack and damage animations, and your PS pwoer sfx. Usually it's ranged attacks with their slow damage effects rendering which reach you well after your PS effects are done. And it looks to you like you've been shot through your phase shift. Henace the illusion of PS not working.
As I hinted above, my Peaceberinger is "hit through Phase Shift" many times even through a PB's Phase Shift has 0 artivation time. The same sort of latency lag also allows you to joust with melee attacks. You Fly, SuperSpeed or Jump past a targer with an attack queue, and attack animations and lands with you some distance away. It's just somehting that we have to accept as part of the natre of an online and fast passed game.
Powerhelm the Hamidon is isn't insurmountable. He's been beaten on the Hero side and on the Villain side. Hero side did have a bit of an advance as there is a lot of old Hamidon raid experience to pull from. Villains (even long time Hero Hami raider) didn't have an experience to draw on. But Hami-Red has been beaten none the less.
And the reason for the hurege amount of AoE and KB and Mezz is to make is challenge. It's an answer to the complaint that Controllers and Defenders had to use for most of ther buffs during the hold Hamidon. Well now there are required. No buffs means a cascade raid wipe. And big new Phase Shift is still good to have. It helps my characters have a better chance of reaching cover successfuly.
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However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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I was on a villain hami raid last night and it failed miserably. The whole PA/PS thing is bogus. "We were worried about PS/PA becoming required"
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Please kill this thread.
Stop your whining.
Ooooh it's too hard there is a chance a failure, we can't perma hold while we chat and admire our colorful spandex.
Get over it. It's been proven that the new Hamidon is beatable. I was there on Test when one happened. Why should the Dev's spoon feed you?
It's like there is this group of people that think because they cannot pull up a command line and go into God mode that the game sucks. "I can't finish the game because I might die".
Stop complaining, do something constructive like reading the notes on the Hami raid on test and see what works. Better yet come up with your own solution. Don't like the "risk" go to Mercy or Pocket D and turn your self into a pumpkin.
Poison Pill
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And in tonight's performance, Poison Pill will be our lead Hami Pom-Pom Squad Leader...
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I have no trouble with a challenge but there's a challenge then there's way too challenging. If they intend us to beat it a certain way then I'd appreciate they tell us instead of us finding an alternate way and them buffing Hami even more to prevent that method and then keep teasing us with a mythical solution that they won't reveal. As they've done in the past.
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Once you know the general strat, it's not very hard. You have to have probably at least 35 people (that's a guess, and I'm guessing it would be fairly harder at that count) and a reasonable distribution of ATs.
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Also I would like to see one successful raid on each side on each server before I hear people saying it's fine and beatable.
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Why from each server? That's an honest question; I don't understand why that matters.
As far as Justice (or, I think, anyone who did the raids on test) is concerned, I'm pretty sure we're not keeping our strats secret. If you want to know them, just ask.
Justice's raid definitely does not have a magic powerset distribution. Things go faster if you have folks who can TP the dead back to cover. Folks who can rez help. Having 1-3 Dark Defenders/Corruptors/MMs helps because they can offer AoE Fear protection. You need people with good taunting ability (usually Tankers/Brutes) and both ranged and AoE healing are important, but both of these things were important (imperative) in the old raid.
It works best if you can split into aggro holding groups, melee groups that pound on yellows, ranged groups that take on blues, and a mezzing group that takes on greens. Once the greens are down, our green group takes on blues as well. Justice hasn't set any quotas on the number of people doing each; we just said "hey, if you do these things go here".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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And in tonight's performance, Poison Pill will be our lead Hami Pom-Pom Squad Leader...
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Sorry, I'm not a /EM, no pink pom poms here.
Poison Pill
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And since when does the whole game just adjust solely for SR Scrappers in PvP? Cause it's not like I can just run out and craft up 4 or 5 full sets of IO inventions right now to give every toon I have a 30% tohit buff. You all make it sound like it's something every single toon can easily and cheaply obtain. Well it ain't. And before someone utters "Focused Accuracy" one more time, I'll remind you it can't be obtained till LEVEL 41. That gives all you SR scrappers 40 levels of unfettered PvP playtime.
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My "unfettered PvP playtime" ends at level 8, when tactics technically becomes available.
You were not meant to have the tohit buffs: this is the correction of an error. And its not SR scrappers alone that were significantly and negatively affected by this error, it was SR scrappers and stalkers, Energy Aura stalkers and brutes, force field defenders, controllers, and masterminds, Ice tankers, stone tankers and brutes, pretty much anything that relies on defense for protection. They all have to be screwed so you can hit more often? I think not: drop your difficulty scaler and go hunt weaker prey, if having fair game impairs your abilities that much.
Listen up: the game *does* in fact get designed around SR scrappers. SR scrappers virtually *always* get *screwed* because of this. The devs placed positional defenses very high up on the set bonus ladder. Do you think that was so players wouldn't be able to stack them on combat jump? Do you think that was an accident? No: that was a specific decision to make it extremely difficult for SR to stack positional defenses.
Why are power pool powers weak? Because the devs are worried that defense sets, especially SR (and Ice) can stack them too high. They are very cogniscent of that, and make sure that SR scrappers have limits to the amount of defense they can buy, and how they can stack.
Do you think the devs don't know that high-order tohit buffs skewer defense sets, like SR, in PvP? They know: I know they know. But they let everyone keep them anyway. They could fix the problem tomorrow, but they've made the calculated decision to allow players to keep those powers, so that they continue to have the effect they have in PvE, and so that they continue to have the effect they have in PvP against all other non-defense oriented power sets. They *know* they are slanting the table against defense sets, like SR, but their calculus is that if SR scrappers have to die so the majority of players can feel good about themselves, so be it.
So if you're going to cry about losing a bunch of excessive tohit buffs you were never even supposed to have in the first place, because as far as you're concerned it doesn't matter how many defense set bodies you have to stack to get a good view of the game, well, all I can say is its a shame you're not going to get what you need; not while I'm around.
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